Re: Michael Moore-on and 9/11
 

Jeez Jonbo, have a little fun. If you notice, there were two emoticons making a subtle hint that I was kidding around.

But taking Dyflon's comments seriously for a moment...

I can see where he's coming from. He is upset that anyone is dying because the US is involved in their country, whether or not the US presence is actually sparing tens of thousands of lives in just this year alone. Its an idealist view to be certain, but I would rather have someone care too much than not care at all.

I do care that there are innocent people that are being killed in Iraq, where many here doubt it or not. I just look at it differently than many of you and while the prisoners beaten to death and civilians that have been killed in crossfire make me cringe, I also find solace in the numbers that I posted earlier.

On average over 35,000 Iraqi civilians and innocents did not die this year because Saddam Hussein is gone.

Think about that. 35,000 Iraqi civilians are still alive today because of the United States involvement in Iraq. Take away the singular examples of abuse, the terrorism and day to day fight and just think about those numbers. Thirty Five Thousand...

Now is the US perfect in what they have done? Hell no. The abuse has to stop not only because it is morally and legally reprehensible, but because we are the most powerful nation in the the world, and even if other nations don't want to admit it, they look up to us. If we cannot hold it together and set an example, who will they look to? Especially when we are trying to install a democracy in a land that is very hesitant of democracy to begin with. There aren't enough troops to police the area considering the amount of insurgents crossing the borders everyday and we haven't been able to organize enough of the neighboring countries to help in policing their own borders. Finally, even though I loathe to admit it due to their massive corruption and greed, we need to get the UN involved and involved heavily to lend international credibility but more importantly to help gain the trust of the people we are trying to help.

And yes, all of these areas the US is struggling with and need to improve ASAP, but in the end:

35,000 Iraqi's who would have been dead are now still alive because of US involvement in Iraq. 35,000 families still have husbands, wives and/or children because of the US involvement in Iraq. 35,000 people now still have hope due to US involvement in Iraq.

To me, this trumps any negative you could possibly present.

Re: Michael Moore-on and 9/11
 

i dont want to start a flame war here, but exactly how would you know that they look up to you? Do you watch any news or anything thats NOT from America? most other countries hate america. And dont get all " but why would they weve helped so many of them" on me.

Yes i will be the first non-american to admit that the U.S.A has helped out other countries, but sometimes they also act like the worlds police force, and act like, plain old big bullies.

They feel ( generally) that every conflict is their problem. And I know for a fact that Bush is trying to change our laws. Sure you can call it "influencing" but hes seemingly trying to rule another country though hes not in power.



And one note here, i think giving Saddam back is a horrible mistake. He will be back in power, soon after arriving. Do you really think hes going to an Iraqi prison? He has so many people on the inside that love him and warship him. Yes he killed his own people, so did Hitler, Germans still respected him during the war.

Re: Michael Moore-on and 9/11
 

Typhoid, there is a difference between respect and fear. From all reports from those that lived inside and outsiders who observed, no one really respected Hussein, or I should correct that and say very few respected him. They feared him. He killed 50,000 people a year. Husbands dissappeared overnight and never returned and it went on for 30 years.

Those that actaully supported him are Bathist, and they make up a vast minority of Iraqis, and the only reason they supported him was because he didn't kill them on a whim and favored them above all others.

As for Saddam being return to Iraq, he might be but he will return as a prisoner of the United States. Saddam might be tried in Iraq, but he will be held as a prisoner of the United States. I guarantee it. No one in the US is stupid enough to hand him over to anyone else while he's still breathing.

Re: Michael Moore-on and 9/11
 

Because we are the leader of the free world and most people would rather be free than be enslaved?

That's a good mass generalization.

You're not the first... you're among millions.

And since you still don't understand this:

they're - They're going over to the house.
there - The house is over there.
their - Is that their house?

Re: Michael Moore-on and 9/11
 

Thast what ( im pretty sure) Bush said, is that he is handing over Saddam to be held captive in an Iraqi prison, as he is a citizen of there.

I'll look for a quote, but there is a chance i am misinformed.

And dont say ( this is directed at anyone) say i am misinformed without proof please, that really wrinkles my rug..



Bond thanks for the grammar tip, but i dont know what you were trying to correct, because i said none of those forms of the word "there" "their" or "they're", you must have forgot to edit it in.


And i even said it was a generalization.

And im not American, and i dont want to be, yet i am in "the free world", strange huh? ;)

Re: Michael Moore-on and 9/11
 

"They feel ( generally) that every conflict is there problem."

Re: Michael Moore-on and 9/11
 

We need to bring all of the world leaders together to create some sort of superforce to run the world together and make it a better place. We'd elect leaders and they'd all work together to run the planet. It'd be like the UN but way better. That way, we could institute the disarming of nuclear weapons, create a world currency and do other things that would benefit the planet and make the world a better place.

I know this is some crazy dream. But just imagine.


There will be no peace until humans come together as a people.



But...on the subject of world powers, America isn't the worst world power there has been. It really could be worse. While I don't agree with everything the country does, it's not doing a terrible job...for the most part. I still strongly disagree with the patriot act. *shudder* Seriously, that's the first step to our world becomming like the world in the book "1984".

But I'm wildly off topic now...