I think I know what the problem is with some of these kids that only like Eminem. See, there ARE other artists out there in the hip-hop scene that IMO are much better than the mainstream stuff you hear today. I used to be like you and dislike hip-hop for some of the reasons you mentioned above and I thought I'd never like it, but now I am here, hip-hop pretty much my favorite genre. If you take the time and go to some Indie record stores, look for Deltron 3030, Kool Keith, Mos Def, Talib Kweli, El-P, Aesop Rock, Cannibal Ox, Paul Barman, Jurassic 5, Common, The Roots...etc, I could go on, but don't write off hip-hop as crap just because you hear a crappy Nelly or Jay-Z song on the radio because even I will agree with you that that stuff is crap. But research some underground hip-hop and at least give it a shot and is you still hate it, well i can't do anything about that. And I think because of some of the reasons you like Eminen, originality, creativity what have you, you'll like some of this stuff. I mean, Paul Barman is probably the funniest and smartest rapper I've ever heard, better than Eminem. Anyway, end of that little rant.

That rev d00d looked like P Diddy hahah!

Yeh go Coolio. I wish that fat guy would shut up and let Coolio speak!

And Coolio did have a good point. Without power, you won't be able to make a significant influence on such a major thing (banning white's from rapping etc).

That rev will be known for being a racist, but that's about it. But Rev had some points too. Unfortunately they were outweighed by his ridiculous intentions

i hate when ppl try to be smart about something they dont know squat about. but anyways[quote]Originally posted by Shadow Fox
[b]*walks into GT*

*enters thread*

*unsheathes memory*

*unsheathes...[what's that again? Oh yeah]- katana*

*waves to Saffire and Killaine*And why is it that you like Eminem's rap ONLY? Find three good reasons for that, then I'll commend you-as well as prove something more in the process...standby.


1. his enunciation - its the one of the best , if not the best out of all the rappers out there. (u can understand him)
2. his creativity and ability to tell a story.
3. his dre produced beats
4. his lyrics are one of the best in the game.

yes, some ppl have the same level of lyrical potential but that isnt enough. all those things and more are reasons why ppl like eminem.

Saffire brought this subject to my attention, and in fact, there are some interesting points brought up by all three parties (journalist, Coolio, and Scott) regarding the issue.

For one, Rev. Paul Scott is correct in the way that the first ammendment is "bended" to cater to the Americans of caucasian descent- think of how long rap was banned in many states because its GENERAL (not wholistic image), promoted violence, drugs and sex...while, well- do I even need to mention Ozzy Osborne, Aerosmith or Marylin Manson's lyrics?

There was even one point where the Million Man March was going to be stopped for fear of "deviant activity", when in actuality, any Woodstock or Spring Break concert could be ten times worse with tons of wild kids with no shirts and an assload of beer and whatnot. There is a difference.
what does this have to do with white ppl not being allowed to listen or write rap music? do u know what your saying? rap = rhythmic articulate poetry. so basically he is saying if some white person were to write a poem and then read it to a rhythm ... that wouldnt be allowed? u cant ban someone from writing poetry and reading it.


The other point is that rap was created and intended to be used for black people to express themselves fully across rhythmic beats and snares about life's trials and tribulation-thus the term "hip-hop culture". Money and mainstream media has, if not destroyed, totally crippled the stance and reason hip-hop stands as an artform- so why not add whatever you want to it now?

ok, what. u read a book that said rap was made by some guy and he said "this is for black people" yeah? and im pretty sure u didnt. how do u know that it wasnt a white person that first rapped? and im pretty sure the first time someone made a verse, or freestyled he didnt have a snare and a rhythm on him. maybe some guy wrote a poem and started saying it to a song.

i dont know. this is like saying who created singing? who created
drinking tea?


Those were about the only valid points Scott made in regards to this; seeing that he knows little to nothing about the entertainment industry (let alone the rap/hip-hop industry) as a whole.

The reporter (I forget his name), made up another interesting point- Eminem taunts the very reason why Scott should want rap banned from whites. Eminem speaks of how he's "the worst thing since Elvis Presley" (for the uneducated, "Rock and Roll" was taken from Jazz/Blues artforms, also founded by black slaves of the old south as motivational tools). He even speaks of how he "uses rap music rather selfishly" and "used it to get himself wealthy".

While I myself am a fan of Eminem as an artist (the fact that he bars the very buyers of his music through metaphors and blinds the average mind with a catch-phrase to conceal the message is very clever indeed-nwoChris happens to be one of those buyers ;) ), I do feel that Eminem needs to hold his toungue a tad (especially if there would be worldwide panic if say, Nelly started speaking in his same method), and that he does get a little too much favortism and is bending the genre. Since when does a rapper get on the cover of Rolling Stone Magazine? Hmmm...:rolleyes: And last I checked, there isn't a bit of "rock" on any album he's done (underground or mainstream), yet groups like Outkast and Goodie Mob have tons of rock samples or full songs, and get overlooked- maybe it's because they convey a strong, positive message, and not just "let the bodies hit the floor" over and over again, but eh...:rolleyes:

When was the last time you checked? maybe if u checked ever, ud know he did a song with kid rock. called f--- off and he had aerosmith on the chorus of a song on his new album. if aerosmith isnt rock then wtf is rock. he even had to redo a song on his album because it sounded too much like some -insert name here- song (maybe it was jimi hendrix i donno) (btw it was "haileys song")but thats not the point.
im not gonna discuss if eminem has any rock in him even tho he said 'my new album was heavily influenced by 70s rock music'. i dont think eminem needs to hold his tongue at all. just because of how many people know of him and his music. but w/e.

lol and dont gimmie that "subliminal message crap. ud have to be pretty slow to not realize those messages. maybe if ur 12.....


Finally, Coolio is DEFINATELY correct about the role of white America and rap music- it would not exist without the constant support (and finance tracking/publishing deals) given through the money wad that wealthy blacks (at that point in time) were too "afraid" to invest with. As far as white artists "taking away" from the industry, I doubt that will happen anytime soon. Even if it did, it's sure to make things interesting...Hell, look at football, baseball, basketball, and even golf and tennis now....alot more competitive than it once was in the "Jim Crow" assisted South and Northern United States in the days of old.



yea... if u take rap from whites. then take golf and baseball from blacks. and take basketball from whites. and then everything sucks.

While I do agree that the first ammendment does warrant freedom of speech across all race/genders, that has not ALWAYS been the case, even as of recent. I honestly do believe if the power of Congress was primarily in the hands of a race other than caucasian ethnicity, alot more freedom in music as a whole would be assessed across the entire racial spectrum.

yea probably. although 4 some reason eminem is getting flack for things other black ppl have said a million times b4.


But then again, that's just IMO, so sue me.;)

-......????


whats your telephone number , adress, and full name.


o and i don only like eminem if that wut ur thinking.

^wut he said. but u dont need to go to a indie store for mos def. :p

Yeah, maybe not, but...he's still good. Don't contradict me! :D

[quote]Originally posted by yes_yes i am
[b]i hate when ppl try to be smart about something they dont know squat about. but anywaysbravo... give him some dblns.. :p

yeah.. umm.. i agree?

I'm mad you mentioned "Nelly"...

*bashes head into wall*

Anyway, EVERY reason you mentioned about Eminem can be said about ALOT of respectable rappers in the industry (i.e. OutKast, Goodie Mob, Pharoh Monche, Joe Buttons, Witchdoctor, Ludacris, Deccade, Jatis, ICP, T-Rock, Pastor Troy, Nas, etc.)...

If I were to pit one artist against your opinion, it would more-or-less be Andre 3000 from Outkast. Like Eminem, the man can more than make words rhyme and make sense- an entire song was written against corporate America and it's flaws in a seemingly simple song- until you actually read between the lines and truly listen to the lyrics. The song "The Whole World" ring a bell? Even in the video the Outkast crew dresses up like "mooboo" acts (white men who painted their faces black in the early twenties as a political gag) and entertain a corporate audience in cynical respect.

That's alot deeper than any Eminem song I've ever heard, though I believe "I am" (the song, NOT the video/single) came pretty close to Eminem's full potential as a thought-provoking artist.

And further more, the last time Outkast even collectively did a song about girls and glamor was the 1994 hit, "Players Ball".

And no, 99% of rappers don't rap about money, cars, and women- if anything, it's about drugs, hard life, and lack of money- but then again, you're probably talking about mainstream rap (what you may eventually catch on MTV/BET countdowns, and "mixed" radio stations), in which case it's 100% of rappers talking about money, cars, and women.:mad:

But anyways, it's all based on what you see, and if you don't see alot of hardcore, real, or political/self-conscious rap lyrics abound in the industry, that's no one's fault but your own. My collection is full of deep (probably too deep for the average school kid), conscious lyrics, and I love them more and more for the Animal Farm-esque satirical pounces they constantly achieve.

-.....???

I'm not a huge fan of any kind of music, and I don't go out of my way to listen to certain rappers. I can easily find an Eminem CD or hear his songs on the radio/TV so I've grown to like his stuff. If I have to go way out of my way to listen to certain people, it's not worth it for me. Everyone seems to think mainstream music is all crap... If it was all crap, then millions of people wouldn't like it like they do. If these indy guys or whatever guys you (this goes for anyone who mentioned any "less popular" rap/hip hop people) were talking about aren't on the radio or TV, chances are people don't like them as much as people like Eminem.

WHOA- stop RIGHT THERE. Before you even THINK of contemplating my knowledge of the music industry (since I myself am an artist), I'd suggest you'd visit the Bluff, Bowen Homes or Thomasville before you go any further on attempting to educate me on deep lyrics, or the lack thereof.1. Depends on what you are used to. In comparsion, Andre 3000, Nas, T-Rock the Rocafella, C-Lo-Goodie, and Pastor Troy (just a sample) have better enunciation in most syllabic chunks and emphasize the stronger choice words (AKA add-lib).
2. Once again I point to: Outkast, Goodie Mob, Jay-Z, Lil' Kim, Notorious B.I.G., T-Rock, Jatis, Deccade, and LL Cool-J.
3. This has no concern, as in this respect, every 2Pac, Snoop Dogg, Nate Dogg, Daz Dillenger, and new NWA midi composition was written by Dr. Dre. I've heard better from DJ Sheats, Neptunes, Timbaland, and Swiss Beats on several occasions.
4. Agreed, but Eminem is NOT THE best- hell, even Busta Rhymes more commercial lyrics of recent are alot better in delivery and content than alot of Eminem's rants- although Eminem's are much more entertaining (containing humor).And as I have pointed out in the list above, there are even more reasons why "ppl" like other artists.Did you listen to what I was saying? These were points brought out by the people conducting the interview; but I'm assuming you'd know that had you actually watched the entire presentation given in the link. As I was saying, that's what HE (Rev. Scott) said, not myself. Quit getting it twisted- I only agreed with the point he made about some political stances, not the main issue at hand.Or maybe you are trying to discredit me by making a guess in comparision to an actual Black History documentary I have on the "essence of rap/hip-hop culture" (ever watch BET?). How amusing.Exactly. And further more...Hmm...let's see- the last time I checked was in 2000, which was when Eminem first appeared in Rolling Stone. Let's see...no Kid Rock or Aerosmith at that point in time, which was the point. A song was eventually going to be made in this genre (with Fred Durst), but internal conflicts destroyed chances of that happening. And as far as Eminem holding his tongue back, what would truly prove Eminem as an artist would be an entire album w/o contriversial and violent topics- because right now, he isn't showing enough talent to pull that off (hell, 50-cent did 8 albums with the same content as Eminem, and it wouldn't even get radio play-besides "I'm gonna rob the industry".)...I myself believe Eminem CAN do it (to a certain extent), but like everthing else in the world, he has to prove it.I definately agree- which is why Eminem can't compete in lyrical content to the likes of Common, Outkast, Biggie, T-Rock, Goodie Mob, Jay-Z (reasonable doubt era), Joe Buttons, etc. Ultra-deep content is the true karma of the artform, as how that's how it was originally intended to be- not a showcase for high school children.Um, ok....You mean the same things that for some reason, do not warrant them an appearance on the cover of rolling stone? Or do you mean the same harsh topics that almost got rap banned in 1987 (anyone recall Too Short?)???:rolleyes:No prank calls, but here's the full addy:

13 Bankhead Courts Apts
135 Bankhead Hwy
Atlanta, GA 30314

(p.s. make sure you stop by the Bluff before you get there ;) )

Have fun on your trip down to GA, folk.;)

no, what I'm thinking is you have no clue as to what the music industry as a whole entails, let alone deep lyric writing and critique.

*sheathes katana*

*vanishes into the day*

-.....???

Hmm...last I checked, Outkast's last album (Stankonia) went multiplatinum in 8 days...but eh...;)

And if you are referring to me remotely, not one artist I mentioned lacks a radio or television appearance with their music.

-....???

Here's a list of people you gave me earlier: OutKast, Goodie Mob, Pharoh Monche, Joe Buttons, Witchdoctor, Ludacris, Deccade, Jatis, ICP, T-Rock, Pastor Troy, and Nas.

I don't know any songs by nine of these artists. If I watched my regular TV viewing for let's say three days, I'd heard an Eminem song at least three times. Other than that, I might see OutKast or Ludacris, and I haven't liked anything I've heard from them yet.

And you keep saying things like this : "Eminem is NOT THE best" (that was in regard to lyrics). That is what we call an OPINION. People have different opinions, I hope you know that. I'm not sure exactly why you're trying to prove that Eminem isn't my favourite rapper, because that's impossible to do. If the people you keep naming as being better than Eminem are shown on TV and heard on the radio, then surely I've heard them before (although maybe not knowing who they are) and I haven't liked any rap I've ever heard other than Eminem's...

Stopped listening to rap shortly after Biggy Smalls died. Btw, whatever happened to Ma$e?

:lol:

I h8 Ja Rule. Especially that song where that little midget sings "I do, you do, we do, let's do, do do". :mad2:

It really irritates me. I think Eminem should rap a song about Ja Rule and his little friends (especially that little do do friend)

He put out a 2nd album, it flopped, he took his money and ran.

That's an interesting point; and one I knew you'd point out sooner or later. That's exactly what "mainstream" is- songs "played out" day in and day out (who here isn't sick of "cleaning out my closet" by now?). And naturally, what you hear more, you are more accustomed to- no argument there; exactly what I see everyday with other mainstream folks.No one isn't forcing any opinion on anyone, and if you read my post, it clearly stated "this is IMO, so sue me." I'm guessing you missed that part...:rolleyes:

Anyhow, my point with you wasn't to prove you don't like Eminem, it was to show that your reasons for liking him are no different than that of quite a few other rappers in the industry, so that if it was up to you, you COULD actually like more than just Eminem as a lyricist-guess I gotta point that out too...

Eh, but your opinion is your opinion- I proved what I needed to, and your responses were predicted. The sad part is alot of peeps think the same way you do, and alot of promising artists get passed over by the more mainstream images.

-...???