Abortion

[Typhoid]

It is a super touchy subject.

Some think it should be legal, some say no.

Now, My intentions on starting this thread is not to start any big arguments, political or holy wars. I just want to know each persons opinion and why. Please dont link to sites that say it is good or bad, because that isn't your opinion. State your opinion as to why you side that way.

I'll get the ball rolling.

I think it should be legal to some extent. Because a fetus is not a person. A fetus is not even a baby.

I think it should be up to the mother of the child. Its her baby, so it is her choice. Technically, at this point, the baby is not an independant person, and is part of her. It is a semi-symbiotic relationship.

To put it into context for you who think otherwise. Pretend you have a 14,15,16 or 17 year old daughter. Now picture her pregnant. You cannot tell me you wouldnt want her to abort. Who would wish a child upon a child?

Now, some of you will probably say :" Well, it was her choice to get pregnant."

I rebutt that with, Yes, it was her choice to get pregnant, but should it also not be her choice to abort the baby?

What if a woman is raped and gets pregnant? And every time she looks into the babies eyes, she remembers the conclusion of the raping. I would not want a rape-baby.

I think a fetus becomes a baby the second the ties are severed with the mother. Then, and at that point, It is an independant living creature.

And pleaaaase do not say "well in religion" this and "in the bible" that.

Religion does not/should not dictate laws. Religion and law are separete. One should not interfere with the other.

Anyways, please keep in mind im not planning on this being some big argument thread, so please keep the flameing to a minimum.

So what do you think?

[Dyne]

I think I should stay out of this thread!

Heh!

I'll pass out flame-retardent suits in the General Talk main area if anyone needs them.

[Crono]

In the case of the woman who got laid in first place, that was her decision, she MUST face the consequences of having the baby. It's her own fault. I don't care if you can't afford it either, just give it up adoption or something. You can't just go out and have unprotected sex, get pregnant, and then say "oh, well, I dont want to have this kid, so I'll just throw him out". That's basically what it is, throwing the eventual human being in the garbage can. How would you like it if someone said "oh, well, we don't want you anymore, so we'll just kill you now".

In the case of the women being raped, well, then, I'd allow it.

So do I think abortion is good? Not really, but it's just personal feelings, nothing to do with religion.

[Seth]

I don't even see why this should be discussed here.

We all know how these turn out.

And it's probably safe to say that the opinions here are split fairly equally.

So ya, I'm not in this one. Waste of time.

[Typhoid]

I don't even see why this should be discussed here.

We all know how these turn out.

And it's probably safe to say that the opinions here are split fairly equally.

So ya, I'm not in this one. Waste of time.



Im sorry, I like you....your a good guy, I have nothing against you. Seriously.

But if you have nothing to say, please do not post to tell us you are not going to say anything. It seems slightly post-whoreish to me.

Its like saying your better than everyone and telling them to their face.

But honestly, your a good guy, lol, so dont take that personally.

[Seth]

You must've missed the part where I was calling this thread down. ?


Nothing against you, I like to discuss these things as well, but it's been done before and it never goes any place new.

[Acebot44]

I've basically got the same feelings as you Typh. That's all I got to say. Using Abortion as a form of birth control should not be allowed though, but I doubt that a women would be able to live with herself after aborting more than 2 babies.

[GameMaster]

I believe it is completley up to the person giving birth whether they want to abort or not. It's their body and I agree that it's not murder or brutal killing unless the baby has been physically detached from the mother.

[Su-Yin]

its plain murder....
mistake made...therefore consequences u must face...*shrug* dont want a kid? be responsible....

as simple as that...
its not about religion...i dont nutz bout that...but if u abort...ur 'techinically' depriving someone of a chance at life...*tsktsk* pure selfishness

u must b thinking...ppfft* if it happened to her she wud say something else...but well...i honestly think i would do the right thing...and that....is to use protection my friend ;)

[Crash]

it is murder.. but sometimes if the girl was raped... etc etc..

you should not just get an abortion because you got accidentally pregnant... dont be stupid and irresponsible

it should be the girls choice... but i dont always agree with what the girl decides...

i would love to just say, hey, you get pregnant you get to deal with the consequences... you can't just kill your consequence.... it's super complicated though.

[Su-Yin]

I believe it is completley up to the person giving birth whether they want to abort or not. It's their body and I agree that it's not murder or brutal killing unless the baby has been physically detached from the mother.

would u consider an egg(with a chick growing inside)still part of the hen?would u brreak it and still say u didn kill it?.....the only diff is a baby is in a womb( in the mother)...a fetus is a-soon-to-be child...killing it does not mean it isnt murder...it WILL have a life of its own too

mayb if it was from rape it would b alot more difficult to say this...but it wasnt the baby-to-be's fault...so y take its life?...
*shrug* k...mayb its just me saying this cuz im not in the situation....i might feel otherwise if it happened to me personally

[GameMaster]

It's different for a chick, because it is not dependent on the hen, just the egg. And the egg could be incubated. But humans are different. The mother's body is necessary for the baby to survive. And since it was the mother's body before it was the baby's growing pod, the mother has the right to abort it if she wants. It's like renting a house to someone. They need it to survive, but since you own the house, you can remove them from the house whenever you want. It's your house, not the renters

[Crono]

Maybe if the woman wasn't such a slut, she wouldn't have the problem in the first place.

Oops, I'm sorry. Didn't mean to offend your average dirty skank hoe.

Seriously, you get pregnant, deal with it in a responsible way. Getting rid of it is the easy way out. A coward's way out. If you don't want it, give it up for adoption or something. Or just... stop being a slut.

But I like to see women struggle while trying to go to school (maybe) and raise a kid. Ha..hahahahHAHAHA. Oh yeah, I am so cruel. Oops, sorry, bitch.

[Typhoid]

as simple as that...
its not about religion...i dont nutz bout that...but if u abort...ur 'techinically' depriving someone of a chance at life...*tsktsk* pure selfishness



So then every time a guy jacks off into a towel, or a napkin. Or every time a couple has anal or oral sex, its wrong because they are 'technically' depriving someone of life?



Maybe if the woman wasn't such a slut, she wouldn't have the problem in the first place.

Seriously, you get pregnant, deal with it in a responsible way. Getting rid of it is the easy way out. A coward's way out. If you don't want it, give it up for adoption or something. Or just... stop being a slut.



So a 14 year old girl who had sex once is a slut?
Stupid yes, slut no. It only takes 1 time to get pregnant. 1 is not a big enough number to create slut status.

And after youve carried a baby for 9 months, you cant just give it up for adoption. Its harder that that. You grow attatched to it. I know because I had to hear conversations with my dad and my sister when she got pregnant after sleeping with a guy once, when she was 17(or 18). She was contemplating abortion.

She said looking back (considering she said she would give it up for adoption) she said no after she gave birth to her baby because she was attacthed to it.

Now, i have no idea how a girl who wants to have an abortion is a slut. No clue. its like calling a white guy who wears only a tuke a wigger.

My sister had sex once at that point of her life. Slut? No.

How does deciding of an abortion constitute sluttyness?

[Su-Yin]

So then every time a guy jacks off into a towel, or a napkin. Or every time a couple has anal or oral sex, its wrong because they are 'technically' depriving someone of life?



well its different...cuz its fertilized

*makes speaker voice* 'the sperm is in the egg'...i repeat...'the sperm is in the egg'

[Su-Yin]

... They need it to survive, but since you own the house, you can remove them from the house whenever you want.

thanks for proving my point of the selfishness of abortion...lol

it is murder...u take it out of u..means ur killing it...cuz it cant survive

[GameMaster]

It's your creation, you can do with it whatever you want.

[GameMaster]

It's not the mothers fault, it's the fetus' fault for not adapting once it's removed from the growing pod. It's laziness. Most animals learn to walk in hours or days. We take months! Point: If the fetus isn't willing to prepare for all possible scenarios, then let it face the consequences.

[Su-Yin]

It's your creation, you can do with it whatever you want.

can ur mom take knife and cut ur leg off and say *ITS MINE I MADE U* .... is that still legit?is that right?

[Typhoid]

can ur mom take knife and cut ur leg off and say *ITS MINE I MADE U* .... is that still legit?is that right?


No, because you are an independant being at that point.

A fetus is not independant, it cannot survive on its own. It needs assistance. Basically, at this point it is almost inanimate.

[Su-Yin]

No, because you are an independant being at that point.

A fetus is not independant, it cannot survive on its own. It needs assistance. Basically, at this point it is almost inanimate.
wuz referring to GM's post about destroying ur own creations...-_-'....but k...i get it...

:flame: :p

[Hero2]

If anything Im pro choice. I do think its wrong but its not my choice to make.

[Dylflon]

I think it's funny that Typhoid said he didn't want any arguments in this thread and just asks for opinions and then goes and starts pointing out what he thinks is wrong in other people's opinions.

I think that's called starting an argument.

[Typhoid]

I think it's funny that Typhoid said he didn't want any arguments in this thread and just asks for opinions and then goes and starts pointing out what he thinks is wrong in other people's opinions.

I think that's called starting an argument.




I think its funny it took this long for someone to point it out.


:sneaky:


Wait....i mean.....im...not....arguing...


GLITTER!

*throws glitter in your face*

[Professor S]

I am in support of abortion, but to a point. That point is when the child, if prematurely born, could be saved. That current point is 5 months.

After the fifth month, there should be no abortion. Yes, it is a woman's body, but at some point that body is caring for another human being even if that human being isn't "independent" purely for the reason that they haven't come out of the womb yet. This is whole argument in support of partial birth abortion (meaning that only the head and shoulders are outside of the woman so the child is not "technically" born yet), which is basically a loophole for legalized infanticide and one of the more reprehensible and selfish practices allowed by law.

We can't continue with this whole "all or nothing" philosophy when it comes to abortion, as it will get us nowhere. You can't simply state that "all abortion is legal" because there are 8 month old children being partially born in the world today and are then being put to sleep like you would euthanize a dog or cat.

You also can't state that "all abortion is illegal" because the fact of the matter is that for a long time the potential life is just a collection of cells. Also this does not account for rape victims, horrific abnormalities and so on and so forth.

There is one thing that has not come up yet, that is a sign of how far this argument has gone and become completely myopic in its scope: What about adoption? My mother ran a free adoption agency for years and the number of parents out there that are looking for a child regardless of race or abnormality is astounding. There are not enough children for them, to the point that they spend 3 times more money to adopt children outside of this country. Why is this not brought up as an alternative, even by Planned Parenthood (which honestly should be renamed Planned Abortion). This is a completely viable and much preferred alternative to late stage abortion and should be discussed more than it is.

[Xantar]

The problem with the abortion issue is that from a purely logical standpoint, you can't justify it.

Think about it this way. Most would agree that aborting babies when they're just sticking their heads out and haven't taken their first breath yet (as was done in China for families with more than one child) is pretty much murder. The baby is fully developed and more or less able to live outside the womb. And some would also say that a collection of undifferentiated cells unable to sustain themselves is not a human being.

Ok, but then where exactly do you draw the line? 8 months after conception? Still seems like the wrong time since most babies are viable at that point. So 6 months? 4 months? 4 months and 22 days?

The Strangler suggests that we should use the point at which a baby could be saved if born prematurely as the standard. That sounds reasonable, but the problem is that's a pretty blurry line, too. There is a point at which the chances of saving a baby is about 50%. And then there's a point when the chances are about 1%. And there's a point when we know the chances are even smaller. When do we stop? Theoretically, babies born as early as 4 months after conception can be saved, but they are in such poor health that they will most likely suffer brain damage and not live much of a life at all. Is that really considered "saving" a child?

There just isn't a clearly defined line when we can say, "At this point in time, it is not a living being, but after another precise period of time, it is." This is the world of morality and ethics, and here science fails us.

That said, I'm more or less with Strangler on this one. I'm against partial birth abortions because, among other things, I don't see how a woman could have gone to all the trouble of carrying a baby inside for nine months, putting up with all the awkwardness and strange hormones that come with it, and then decide to abort the baby just as it's coming out. On the other hand, I simply can't say no to a rape victim who will only be reminded of her rape every time she looks at the child.

I think it's worth noting that abortion is actually a fairly old practice. It's not like we have only been able to do it recently with the advent of modern medicine. A long time ago, certain cultures brewed teas which could abort a fetus when the mother drank them.

As to where to draw the line, well that's a decision I think is best left to a woman and not a man like me. I guess by definition that makes me "pro-choice."

[Jason1]

Simple fact of the matter in my mind is that a woman has the right to an Abortion if she so desires. Its one of your rights in this country, and that shoudnt be changed.

[ZebraRampage]

I am not on either side of this issue. I'm kind of in the middle. I believe that abortion isn't right when a girl gets pregnant just because she was fooling around. I believe that abortion should only be allowed for instances such as if the baby was threatening the mother's life, or if it was rape, but even with rape wouldn't you still be able to give the baby up for adoption? I guess I'm more pro-life than I am pro-choice, but I do have some exceptions.

[Bube]

So a 14 year old girl who had sex once is a slut?
Stupid yes, slut no. It only takes 1 time to get pregnant. 1 is not a big enough number to create slut status.

Being an ass here, but it doesn't have to take only 1 time to become pregnant. If it does, then that would be pretty "lucky", depending on the situation.

And think about this, if she really doesn't want the baby, she could kill it herself, which would definitely be murder. If abortion was legal, then you would get it removed the legal way, instead of actually killing it... There's just no way to stop it, if the mother puts her mind to it. So make it legal, make it easier.

I think...

[quiet mike]

We are the "evolved species" on this planet and that's why we can act worse than animals.

[jeepnut]

We are the "evolved species" on this planet and that's why we can act worse than animals.

Well spoken. +rep.