What religion are you?

[Crash]

I'm talking particularly what denomination of christianity are you.

[GiMpY-wAnNaBe]

Born Orthodox, baptized catholic, athiest by choice.

[Acebot44]

Father's Russian Orthadox, Mother's Gregorian, Baptized Protestant. I'm kind of a Unitarian Universalist though.

[Typhoid]

My mom is some sort of Christian...but i dont know what. I know my dad isnt religiuos.

But I think im Protestant or something..i dont know what it means, so I say Im Athiest.

[Stonecutter]

By Baptism: Catholic
By Choice: Agnostic

[GameMaster]

Disciple of Christ

[Dyne]

Protestant. Specifically Lutheran Christianity, but now with the United church (open race, sexuality.. what have you)

[The Germanator]

I'm some sort of Christian because I "celebrate" Christmas and Easter. That's about as religious as I get though. I'd call myself Agnostic.

[Happydude]

Born Orthodox, baptized catholic, athiest by choice.
what he said.

[Stonecutter]

I'm some sort of Christian because I "celebrate" Christmas and Easter. That's about as religious as I get though. I'd call myself Agnostic.
I Celebrate Christmas because I fully believe that Jesus Christ was a real person, one of the greatest people of all time. A leader, an advocate of Civil Rights, an advocate of equality. I do not believe he was the son of god, nor do I believe he rose from the dead.

[Typhoid]

Same here, about the Jesus thing.

I mean, water to wine actually isnt hard.

I'll try explain it easily.


Get 1 bucket of water and 1 bucket of wine of equal portions.

Keep putting an equal amount of wine into the water, and the water back to the wine.

Do this for a while.

After your finished, you have 2 buckets of watered down wine. Its diluted, but it is still wine.

I believe Jesus was a man, perhaps a great man, but he did not perform miracles. Things used to be passed by word of mouth, and people would embellish stories to make it more interesting, and sometimes just so people would listen to the story.

So imagine this going on for quite some time.


Put it this way, I think if we lived how people did 2000 or so years ago, and MLK did what he did, he would be crowned the new Jesus.

[The Germanator]

I Celebrate Christmas because I fully believe that Jesus Christ was a real person, one of the greatest people of all time. A leader, an advocate of Civil Rights, an advocate of equality. I do not believe he was the son of god, nor do I believe he rose from the dead.

I suppose that I continue to celebrate for other reasons. I don't care if Christ was a used car salesman, I believe in the spirit of the holiday as time to get family and friends together and share gifts and love, etc. It's not like people are only nice during Christmas, but it seems to give them an extra excuse to be jolly. Anyway, I'm not sure why I said any of that. *shrug*

[GameMaster]

Your heartwarming testimony has a brought a smile to this aged face, I thank you my son.

[Crash]

no ones mormon?

[Dyne]

no ones mormon?

A friend at another messageboard became a mormon, and he had to quit the Internet completely except for email. He's now going door to door in Utah. Too bad; he was one of the best administrators I've ever seen in action.

[Typhoid]

Aww man.


I was hoping we'd have some Amish people here.

Oh well.

[GameMaster]

Canyarion is a Jehovah's Witness.

[The Germanator]

Aww man.


I was hoping we'd have some Amish people here.

Oh well.

I live about 20 minutes away from the capital of the Amish in Lancaster, PA. I respect that lifestyle. Plus they don't have to pay taxes. Good for them.... I do not however respect when people try to pass a buggy without caution and almost crash into me head-on.

[Canyarion]

Canyarion is a Jehovah's Witness.
Yup, that's gotta count for something!
I was born that way, but I studied it myself and know it's the truth.

[Kitana85]

By Birth: Jewish
By Baptism (choice): Episcopalian


I live about 20 minutes away from the capital of the Amish in Lancaster, PA. I respect that lifestyle. Plus they don't have to pay taxes. Good for them.... I do not however respect when people try to pass a buggy without caution and almost crash into me head-on.

I go to school about 30 minutes from them! I respect them, but clearly most others don't... The Meninites in Lanaster are nicer anyway... do you live 20 minutes away east, north, or west?

[DimHalo]

I was born into a Presbyterian family but we rarely went to church.

I was recently baptized and confirmed Catholic



And there are meninites here in kirksville too. They're interesting people but i've never struck a conversation with them.

[BlueFire]

Baptized Catholic.
By choice: Agnostic.

[The Germanator]

By Birth: Jewish
By Baptism (choice): Episcopalian




I go to school about 30 minutes from them! I respect them, but clearly most others don't... The Meninites in Lanaster are nicer anyway... do you live 20 minutes away east, north, or west?

I'm about 20-30 minutes southeast from Lancaster.

[ZebraRampage]

I live about 40-50 minutes southeast of Lancaster. I've only had to pass a few buggies, yet I haven't had the troubles you've had Germy.

Oh and about my religion.

At birth, I was Catholic. By choice I'm Agnostic.

[Seth]

A very liberal Seventh Day Adventist.

[Crono]

Baptized as Roman Catholic. I'm kind of agnostic at the moment.

[ulala06]

baptist... only... i don't like to go to church, i don't like the organization(*cough*hypocrites*cough*) and i don't really go along with a lot of the beliefs (ie: homosexual=evil)

[GiMpY-wAnNaBe]

baptist... only... i don't like to go to church, i don't like the organization(*cough*hypocrites*cough*) and i don't really go along with a lot of the beliefs (ie: homosexual=evil)
yeah, religion causes too many prejudices, in my opinion anyways

[Professor S]

I suppose that I continue to celebrate for other reasons. I don't care if Christ was a used car salesman, I believe in the spirit of the holiday as time to get family and friends together and share gifts and love, etc. It's not like people are only nice during Christmas, but it seems to give them an extra excuse to be jolly. Anyway, I'm not sure why I said any of that. *shrug*

Excellent explanation of why many non-religious people still love Christmas, like myself (in a traditional sense). As the song says, its the most wonderful time of the year.

Raised: Methodist, which is basically Christianity for lazy people. Our weddings are rediculously short. The first time I went to a Catholic wedding I was both confused (Why is everyone getting up? Should I get up? They're eating a cracker. Do I get a cracker? I'm hungry too, you know. Wine? They get WINE? CATHOLICISM ROCKS!!!) and bored to tears because it lasted... um... three days I think.

By Choice: Monotheist. I believe there are many paths to one God.

[Typhoid]

I have a question about Catholisism.


Does it not say in the bible that to talk to god for him to forgive you, you need no middle man? So where the hell did the confession booth thing come from? Why do you need to tell someone else to tell god to ask for forgiveness?

So to sum it all up....Why is there a middle man, when it states you need none for god to forgive you?

[ulala06]

I have a question about Catholisism.


Does it not say in the bible that to talk to god for him to forgive you, you need no middle man? So where the hell did the confession booth thing come from? Why do you need to tell someone else to tell god to ask for forgiveness?

So to sum it all up....Why is there a middle man, when it states you need none for god to forgive you?



exxxxaaaactly...

[BlueFire]

I have a question about Catholisism.


Does it not say in the bible that to talk to god for him to forgive you, you need no middle man? So where the hell did the confession booth thing come from? Why do you need to tell someone else to tell god to ask for forgiveness?

So to sum it all up....Why is there a middle man, when it states you need none for god to forgive you?
When I had to study about Catholicism a while back, there was one important rule that you learn:
Don't take the Bible literally.

[Typhoid]

When I had to study about Catholicism a while back, there was one important rule that you learn:
Don't take the Bible literally.


If your not to take it literally, who is to say what is right and what is wrong in it?

What is the point of following the Bible, and reading the Bible, if you dont follow what it says?

You cant edit religion to fit your society's needs.

Now women are viewed as equal, but in the Bible they sure arnt. So i guess that isnt literal as well right?

Like I said, you cant edit or change the religion because the times are changing.

[oblivionblader]

i guess i'm a christian but theres so much i wonder about in that, i have to go to church, my parents make me o i think i have no religion, i'm not all for it but i'm not against it, i believe that people can have different oppinions on religion, politics, etc.

[Crono]

If your not to take it literally, who is to say what is right and what is wrong in it?

What is the point of following the Bible, and reading the Bible, if you dont follow what it says?

You cant edit religion to fit your society's needs.

Now women are viewed as equal, but in the Bible they sure arnt. So i guess that isnt literal as well right?

Like I said, you cant edit or change the religion because the times are changing.

Well you do not understand modern Catholic faith. I don't think even Protestants take the Bible literally.

I've been to Catholic schools all my life. In high school religion classes we were told to not take it word for word, but still believe that Jesus was the messiah and that he opened the gates of heaven. It is fact that not everything in the Bible was written down at the time, in fact, the Bible was not written until well after Jesus' death. So it's obvious that words and events will be altered throughout time. That's what I was taught anyway.

However, the core of the Catholic beliefs have existed since the 11th century and are still believed today. Go to a Catholic church and see for yourself. Catholic churches still follow the word of the Pope, who is considered the holiest of men on Earth, and the one closest to God.

And sure, obviously women are equal now, but that's not changing the Catholic religion at all. I believe religions should grow with society. If women have earned the right to vote and be as equal as men in society, then the church should follow suit. However, obviously other religions, such as Islam, do not do this, mostly due to the fact that most Muslim countries are poor so women wouldnt have any rights anyway, even if they werent Islam.

[Typhoid]

Let me ask you this. ( Not directed at one person, its a general question)



Since Jesus' birth, how many other emaculate conceptions have there been?


Whats the chance of an emaculate conception ever happening?

0%.

You know why.

Because you cannot have a god damn emaculate conception.

You need sperm. Its called Science. And dont "Scinece doesnt explain everything" me. Because it does.

And dont "What about the missing link" me either. Because bones decay, its a fact of carbon compounds.

And what about Dinosaurs, if they never existed ( as said in some religions) why are their bones here?
Keriann told me God put them there for us to study.
But why would God want us to study something that never freakin' existed!?!?

[Crono]

Let me ask you this. ( Not directed at one person, its a general question)



Since Jesus' birth, how many other emaculate conceptions have there been?


Whats the chance of an emaculate conception ever happening?

0%.

You know why.

Because you cannot have a god damn emaculate conception.

You need sperm. Its called Science. And dont "Scinece doesnt explain everything" me. Because it does.

And dont "What about the missing link" me either. Because bones decay, its a fact of carbon compounds.

And what about Dinosaurs, if they never existed ( as said in some religions) why are their bones here?
Keriann told me God put them there for us to study.
But why would God want us to study something that never freakin' existed!?!?

This is what I think happened:

Joseph was the real birth father. There was indeed a man named Jesus. He did many great things for people at the time... bUT... his stories were blown out of proportion. I do not believe he healed anyone by simply touching them, however, there were other ways to help these people. Keep in mind the writers of the Bible lived centuries ago, obviously they did not know what exactly happened. Everything was just word of mouth, and people back then were pretty dumb.

As for Jesus being the son of a God, that's where I start to question Christianity in general.

And as for dinosaurs, I do not deny the fact that they existed. I mean, if we've got the remains... then it's pretty damned real.

[Jason1]

Im Roman Catholic, but Im not exactly an active member...im lucky if I get to church once a month.

[jeepnut]

Roman Catholic by birth and by choice.

I would like to spend some time discussing the Catholic faith, but I'm not feeling up to it right now. As with most religions, there is much missunderstanding among those who do not practice it. Maybe we need a thread devoted to dispelling these missunderstandings?

[The Duggler]

I was born that way, but I studied it myself and know it's the truth.
Wow....

[mickydaniels]

Let me ask you this. ( Not directed at one person, its a general question)



Since Jesus' birth, how many other emaculate conceptions have there been?


Whats the chance of an emaculate conception ever happening?

0%.

You know why.
Yes, I do know why. Let's look it up in a dictionary.
mir·a·cle
n.
An event that appears inexplicable by the laws of nature and so is held to be supernatural in origin or an act of God: “Miracles are spontaneous, they cannot be summoned, but come of themselves” (Katherine Anne Porter).

Because you cannot have a god damn emaculate conception.

You need sperm. Its called Science. And dont "Scinece doesnt explain everything" me. Because it does.


And dont "What about the missing link" me either. Because bones decay, its a fact of carbon compounds.

And what about Dinosaurs, if they never existed ( as said in some religions) why are their bones here?
Keriann told me God put them there for us to study.
But why would God want us to study something that never freakin' existed!?!?
If their bones are here, then they obviously existed.

[Typhoid]

Riddle me this then.




Let me ask you this. ( Not directed at one person, its a general question)

Since Jesus' birth, how many other emaculate conceptions have there been?

[mickydaniels]

How many immaculate conceptions?
ZERO.

And your point is?

[Professor S]

Typhoid, you are seriously out of your depth here. By your statements you do not have a working knowledge of religion and you aren't sounding very intelligent right now. Don't take this as an attack, I'm just trying to help you out here so you can maybe do some damage control.

Here's where your flaw lies...

You're arguing science against faith. Faith defies science, so there is no point in arguing between the two. You're arguing about sperm, which is a pretty mundane subject when faith tells you that the ethereal being GOD came down and conceived a child on Earth with a mortal woman. Translation: No sperm is needed, as he's FRIGGIN' GOD. If you can create the universe in seven days, you can knock up a chick without banging her.

Therefore, to a person of faith, your arguements are downright silly and have little to do with anything.

[Canyarion]

Bah I hate it when religions downgrade the bible. :mad:

[Blade Runner]

Eh, Typhoid, are you saying the God that created the universe we live in and the science you keep referring to can't produce an immaculate conception?

BTW, I think I remember reading somewhere that the reason it had to be immaculate was because Jesus needed to be perfect. Men are sinners by nature therefore Jesus couldn't come from the seed of man.

EDIT: What religions say dinosaurs never existed??

[Canyarion]

It's The Dúnadan!!!! Nice to see you! :D

Off topic: I'm the only 'old' Tolkien fan left here! :baby:

Do you really think people would have bought it when they saw that those writers exaggerated the stories about Jesus?? What's told in the bible, really happened there. And what about all the prophecies about him??
It's not easy to deny that Jesus was the promised messiah.. ;)

[Crono]

It's The Dúnadan!!!! Nice to see you! :D

Off topic: I'm the only 'old' Tolkien fan left here! :baby:

Do you really think people would have bought it when they saw that those writers exaggerated the stories about Jesus?? What's told in the bible, really happened there. And what about all the prophecies about him??
It's not easy to deny that Jesus was the promised messiah.. ;)

The Bible was not written at the time of Jesus. The stories could have been and probably were changed throughout the decades. I dont think it was written until about 60 years after his death, even more in some parts of the Bible.

[Canyarion]

So? More reason for people to be critical, methinks.
And besides, I don't think that's true.
Only Luke (or Mark?) wrote his book quite some time later. Joan and Matthew wrote it pretty soon, as I remember it.
The Revelation was the last biblebook to be written, Joan wrote it, so it couldn't have been that much later. 60 years MAX.

And you forgot the prophecies part. :)

[Typhoid]

Eh, Typhoid, are you saying the God that created the universe we live in and the science you keep referring to can't produce an immaculate conception?

BTW, I think I remember reading somewhere that the reason it had to be immaculate was because Jesus needed to be perfect. Men are sinners by nature therefore Jesus couldn't come from the seed of man.

EDIT: What religions say dinosaurs never existed??




Im not saying God created the universe. Where did I say i beleive in any god?

And the faith that says Dinosaurs never exist is Evangelist. Me and Keriann had many an argument over it.



How many immaculate conceptions?
ZERO.



Exactly.


Therefore, to a person of faith, your arguements are downright silly and have little to do with anything.



And to me, a scientific person, religious arguments are silly and have little to do with anything.

Its all perception Strangler, and you like to constantly single me out other than the other side.
You forgot to mention that to a scientific person, religion is silly, but of course, you again, in so many words, say my points arnt valid.

But + reps for this time not saying its because im canadian.

[Seth]

That's crazy how Angrist says Joan for John. Sweet.

[TheGame]

*cough* I could make a long ass post, but I'm not in the mood... Typhoid, mickey pretty much killed your arguement. I don't know why you just said "Exactly."

Just because a miricle happens once, it doesn't mean it has to happen again ever.

As for your faith in science... I just find it to be a bit more likely that somone created us than any other explanation I have heard. :)

"Translation: No sperm is needed, as he's FRIGGIN' GOD. If you can create the universe in seven days, you can knock up a chick without banging her."

Hehe, that was funny :p

[Canyarion]

That's crazy how Angrist says Joan for John. Sweet.
Ah ok! :p In Dutch it's Johannes. And Matheüs, Lukas, Markus. :D

[The Duggler]

As for your faith in science...

It's funny how religious people use the term faith when referring to science. We believe in what science has to offer. We don't blindly think it's the truth, we base our judgement on experiences and proofs. And since we deduct it's the most reasonnable explaination, the closest thing to the truth, then we go with it.

It's probably not right on, but it sure seems a lot more logical than anything any religions can come up with.

[Crash]

well, couple things... revalations was not the last book in the bible to be written, it just happens to be last in the bible. yes, the books of the new testament were not written until some 60-80 years after the events actually happened. The stories were passed down the generations by word of mouth, so some stuff had to have been outta proportion and exaggerated.

[Canyarion]

No no I'm sure there are enough proofs that Mathew and John wrote their own books... they were THERE with Jesus all the time.

And you STILL haven't explained the prophecies. :p

[Kitana85]

You're arguing science against faith. Faith defies science, so there is no point in arguing between the two. You're arguing about sperm, which is a pretty mundane subject when faith tells you that the ethereal being GOD came down and conceived a child on Earth with a mortal woman. Translation: No sperm is needed, as he's FRIGGIN' GOD. If you can create the universe in seven days, you can knock up a chick without banging her.

Therefore, to a person of faith, your arguements are downright silly and have little to do with anything.

That, and the Immaulate Conception was the birth of MARY not the birth of Jesus. The Immaculate Conception is the idea thought of my bored theologans that says that because Christ Jesus was without sin his mother must not carry original sin. The (the Immaculate Conception) is clearly not the same as the Virgin birth.

People can say they are taking it literally, but they can't be, because 1. this isn't the same bible that was written oh so many thousands of years ago, 2. Its impossible to talk about a story and not interpret... that's exactly what interpretaiton means-reading a story and figuring out what it means

[Joeiss]

About dinosaur fossils:

Most people don't realize that in terms of numbers of fossils 95% of the fossil record consists of shallow marine organisms such as corals and shellfish. Within the remaining 5%, 95% are all the algae and plant/tree fossils, including the vegetation that now makes up the trillions of tonnes of coal, and all the other invertebrate fossils including the insects. Thus the vertebrates (fish, amphibians, reptiles, birds and mammals) together make up very little of the fossil record -- in fact, 5% of 5%, which is a mere 0.25% of the entire fossil record. So comparatively speaking there are very, very few amphibian, reptile, bird and mammal fossils, yet so much is often made of them. For example, the number of dinosaur skeletons in all the world's museums (both public and university) totals only about 2,100. Furthermore, of this 0.25% of the fossil record which is vertebrates, only 1% of that 0.25% (or 0.0025%) are vertebrate fossils that consist of more than a single bone! For example, there's only one Stegosaurus skull that has been found, and many of the horse species are each represented by only one specimen of one tooth!


More fun facts about Dinosaurs and the bible, here!
http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=bodybuilder&Number=597754&Forum=bodybuilder&Words=religion%20vs.%20science&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=1week&Main=597404&Search=true#Post597754

[TheGame]

It's funny how religious people use the term faith when referring to science. We believe in what science has to offer. We don't blindly think it's the truth, we base our judgement on experiences and proofs. And since we deduct it's the most reasonnable explaination, the closest thing to the truth, then we go with it.

If you don't know somthing is the truth, you don't know it is the truth, period. What one calls the "Logical closest thing to the truth" could be completly wrong... you chose to believe its the closest thing to the truth because of your faith in science. :p

The only thing a person knows for a fact is their own feelings and emotions. After that there is no facts. Its all what you chose to believe. If it isn't a fact, and you believe it without constantly questioning it, you have faith...

In my opinion, "based on judgement on experiences and proofs", I think it is more logical that there is a god. In your opinion, you think that it isn't logical... You can't prove me wrong, nor can you prove you are right. Just like I can't prove you are wrong and can't prove that I am right. The only person that matters in this situation is me though... I have proven to myself that it is right. (And if I told you how chances are you wouldn't believe me.)

[Dylflon]

I have proven to myself that it is right. (And if I told you how chances are you wouldn't believe me.)

I'd like to hear.

Typhoid,why are you getting all bent out of shape? I don't get it.

[Crono]

No no I'm sure there are enough proofs that Mathew and John wrote their own books... they were THERE with Jesus all the time.

And you STILL haven't explained the prophecies. :p

Uhm.. Matthew and John were not with Jesus. Matthew and John wrote the Bible well after Jesus's death. They were born after Jesus died (they were not one of the 12 disciples if thats what you think). It is obvious that people exaggerated stories. People back then were stupid.

No offense Canyarion, but I was taught this in school, and yes I go to a Catholic school, and last Religous class I had one of the best and smartest teachers I've ever known. I'd take his word over yours any day.

[Blade Runner]

Typhoid, if you're arguing about Jesus, for the sake of argument, we must assume their is a God.

Crono, the Bible is a compilation of books. These books were written all througout history. This includes before, DURING, and after Jesus' death.

SUPER EDIT: Crono I just saw your post about Matthew and John not being alive in Jesus' lifetime or even being his disciples. Where in the world did you get this info??? I dont' know what Bible you've been reading about but this information is extremely incorrect. And where do you get these ideas that the stories were exaggerated and that people back then were a bunch of dummies??

[TheGame]

I'd like to hear.

Through life experience and praying. I'd rather not go into details.

[Crono]

Crono, the Bible is a compilation of books. These books were written all througout history. This includes before, DURING, and after Jesus' death.

I know that. But the Bible has also been through many translations and such since it was officially put together. It was first written in Greek I think, and then on to Latin. It was bound to have been altered from what really happened.

There are just so many possible ways that the Bible events we read about do not tell what really happened.

As far as I know, no one was following Jesus around with a pen and paper. In fact they didn't even have paper back then.

And the books that were written before Jesus' birth are hardly believable at all. Besides, that's old testament, it's mainly Jewish stuff.

[TheGame]

I know that. But the Bible has also been through many translations and such since it was officially put together. It was first written in Greek I think, and then on to Latin. It was bound to have been altered from what really happened.

I doubt it would be altered all that much. But there is no way to know unless you had a time machine. :p

[Crono]

SUPER EDIT: Crono I just saw your post about Matthew and John not being alive in Jesus' lifetime or even being his disciples. Where in the world did you get this info??? I dont' know what Bible you've been reading about but this information is extremely incorrect. And where do you get these ideas that the stories were exaggerated and that people back then were a bunch of dummies??

The Gospel writers weren't his disciples. I mean, they didn't write their own books. And I think the author of Luke and Acts was a Roman guy, not a disciple. I am quite sure of this. Seeing as the books weren't even written until 60 years after Jesus' death.

Where do I get these ideas? Do you really think a story would be the same after 2000 years?

Er..what. they didn't have paper??? You really need to quit making things up. And the transcribing and translating of the Bible was done with such extreme precision and care that you should really research it sometime.

Yes, paper was considered a luxury. Did the average Joe have paper? No.

[Blade Runner]

Er..what. they didn't have paper??? You really need to quit making things up. And the transcribing and translating of the Bible was done with such extreme precision and care that you should really research it sometime.

EDIT: Found a little quote for you.

Some express concern that the Bible may have been altered down through the centuries. It is to this matter that Textual Critics address themselves. They have discovered entire manuscripts and parts of others, one portion dating to the beginning of the 2nd Century. The New Testament has far better textual support than do the works of Plato, Aristotle, Herodotus, or Tacitus, whose contents no one seriously questions. In addition, the New Testament documents have always been both public, and widely-disseminated. Thus it would be impossible for any party to have materially changed their contents, just as the Declaration of Independence, for example, as a public document, could not have been privately altered without raising notice and creating public furor. Sir Frederic Kenyon, former Director of the British Museum, comments:

"The interval between the dates of the original composition and the earliest extant evidence [i.e. our oldest manuscripts] becomes so small as to be negligible, and the last foundation for any doubt that the scriptures have come down to us substantially as they were written has now been removed."

In conclusion, it is not necessary that the New Testament be treated with "kid gloves" and backed up by special pleading. Simply allow it to be subject to the very same historical-critical standards that Classical historians apply to secular literature. When equal treatment is permitted its course, the Gospels fully pass the test.

[Crono]

Er..what. they didn't have paper??? You really need to quit making things up. And the transcribing and translating of the Bible was done with such extreme precision and care that you should really research it sometime.

EDIT: Found a little quote for you.

Where did you find that?

Think about before the bible was written when many things were still being passed on by word of mouth. Would these stories not have changed then? Maybe not in an extreme way, but they could have been changed regardless.

[Typhoid]

If women have earned the right to vote and be as equal as men in society, then the church should follow suit.



What about the separation of church and state?












(And in no way am i saying women arnt equal.)

[Canyarion]

Crono, I have to believe that Mathew and John weren't Jesus' disciples, just because your teacher said so? :rolleyes:
Back it up man.

Do you really think a story would be the same after 2000 years?2000 years? Perhaps not. 60 years? Yes.

And IF you believe in God, don't you thnk that he would make sure the bible is correct? Being a God that can't lie and stuff???

[GameMaster]

And IF you believe in God, don't you thnk that he would make sure the bible is correct? Being a God that can't lie and stuff???

God can't stop people from lying. It's all about the free will.

[Canyarion]

But this is his holy book we're talking about. Of course he can make sure that only the right people got to write and copy his book.

Anyway....

[Crono]

Crono, I have to believe that Mathew and John weren't Jesus' disciples, just because your teacher said so? :rolleyes:
Back it up man.


My teacher never said that. I said, or meant to say, they didn't write their own books. So how do we know the real authors wrote exactly what happened?

[Typhoid]

If women have earned the right to vote and be as equal as men in society, then the church should follow suit.



*Clears throaght*


*Yells*


What about the separation of curch and state?

[Dylflon]

*Clears throaght*


*Yells*


What about the separation of curch and state?

What about it?

[Typhoid]

And didnt god used to be vengeful? If you didnt obey hos every word you would be deemed a blasphemer and go straight to hell. How you had super strict rules to follow or yet again, you would go to hell. What about the Angels of Death, Bartleby and Loki.;) God sent them to do mass destructions and things, or whatever. Where are the other Angels of death I ask you.:p

Now hes everyones buddy. You confess all your sins in a booth to a preist or preacher or reverend, and your sins are free. If you feel you lead a good life, your in.

Something seems different to me.... :p


Just my opinion and thoughts though.


EDIT: I just noticed we are only talking about the God called "God". Not about any of the middle eastern religions. Or anything like that.

Thats why i dont believe in God. Because it seems to be geographcal. Depending on where you live, your god could be a toga-wearing bearded man, or an 8 armed elephant.

[dropCGCF]

Ooh. A religion thread.
I think I'm Daoist. I don't know what you call my religion.

[Professor S]

EDIT: I just noticed we are only talking about the God called "God". Not about any of the middle eastern religions. Or anything like that.

Middel Eastern and Western religions actually share the same God. Islam calls him Allah, we call him God. Many of the same prophets are shared and I believe (I'm not sure) Jesus is even considered a prophet in Islam.

[Joeiss]

Yeah, Islam considers Jesus as a prophet.. Just not the son of God.

[Acebot44]

Yep, Jesus is the most quoted Prophet in the Quran.

[fingersman]

Hmmmmmmmm

I can see alot of peope have alot of questions in here, hmmmmm I'm a christian ( kingdom person to be exact), I won't claim to know everything but if any of you have any questions you want answered about God and stuff, I'll my best to answer em......... I would have just posted the answers to some of your questions but I gotta go and come back.
I'll probadly check back on this thread later tonight.

[Kitana85]

What about the separation of curch and state?

Read the Constitution, there is no seperation of church and state. That entire idea is a misinterpretion of the first amendment which states that there will be no offical National religion (ie The Church of England, R Catholocism in France and Italy), and that they national government can not prohibit a religion, or any group for practicing their own religion (incidentally, the local governemnt, constitutionally, can).

The Seperation of church and state was an idea enforced my Jefferson and Madison, latter much more strongly. Indeed, until Madison's presidency, previous executives had declared National Days of Prayer.

[jeepnut]

Read the Constitution, there is no seperation of church and state. That entire idea is a misinterpretion of the first amendment which states that there will be no offical National religion (ie The Church of England, R Catholocism in France and Italy), and that they national government can not prohibit a religion, or any group for practicing their own religion (incidentally, the local governemnt, constitutionally, can).

The Seperation of church and state was an idea enforced my Jefferson and Madison, latter much more strongly. Indeed, until Madison's presidency, previous executives had declared National Days of Prayer.

That's the problem with separation of church and state. We are a country built on religious ideals by religious people and now we are trying to weed the religion out without disrupting the rest. In my personal opinion, it's not possible.

[dropCGCF]

That's the problem with separation of church and state. We are a country built on religious ideals by religious people and now we are trying to weed the religion out without disrupting the rest. In my personal opinion, it's not possible.

Agreed. In New York, there's a law that is in effect that says you can't buy alcohol before noon on a Sunday. A Catholic imposed law, it's one of the most hurtful laws to our local economies. Just think, it cuts liquor sales by about two percent.

[Canyarion]

It's predicted in the bible that governments will banish all religion. As soon as they touch the one and only true religion, God will stop them --> Armageddon --> Paradise. :)

[CamFu]

Long time no see, whats up guys. I love religious discussions. They are always so full of life. It always seems, no matter what religion somebody is (and yes, atheist is a religion... I have my reasons for these belief) they have a strong opinion on it. And people are so easy offended if their religion is questioned.

My religion is LDS (mormon).

no ones mormon?
So to answer your question Crash, yep... there is at least one guy on this board who is Mormon. ME :D

[Jonbo298]

Welcome back CamFu! A pleasant surprise for most people

[CamFu]

Welcome back CamFu! A pleasant surprise for most people

Ahhh... the key word there. Most. Thanks Jonbo.

[The Germanator]

Ahhh... the key word there. Most. Thanks Jonbo.

Good to see you back as well, I'm surprised your bot hasn't said hello yet.

[jeepnut]

Ahhh... the key word there. Most. Thanks Jonbo.

Can we expect to see you regularly from now on?

[Crash]

yes, the reason I made this thread was to find out the various religions and how serious you guys take it. pretty serious I guess, the thread is growing.

I asked about the mormon church because I'm concidering joining it. please dont make this an anti-mormon thread (moderators, help out here).... I'm pleasantly surprised to find out that Cam (and I guess Kami and kids) are mormon. heh.

[Professor S]

Camfu's MORMON? And in the MILITARY? Thats one hard-ass Mormon ;)

Welcome back! :D

[The Duggler]

If you don't know somthing is the truth, you don't know it is the truth, period. What one calls the "Logical closest thing to the truth" could be completly wrong... you chose to believe its the closest thing to the truth because of your faith in science. :p
Ok, maybe "believe" wasn't the word I should have used. The only thing that I would believe would have to be the absolute truth, and because we will never have that (anyways not in a close future) then I will have to say that I don't believe anything. Now when I look to science I would have to say that it make a lot of sense but there is always a BUT. But you, you think and say that religion must be it, it's like you have the absolute truth, and that is not right at all.


The only thing a person knows for a fact is their own feelings and emotions. After that there is no facts. Its all what you chose to believe. If it isn't a fact, and you believe it without constantly questioning it, you have faith...
Feelings are fact? What about feelings changed by certain drugs? Are they still fact? Or feelings changed by something else like lies or anything else? See? Feelings are as misleading as anything else.


In my opinion, "based on judgement on experiences and proofs", I think it is more logical that there is a god. In your opinion, you think that it isn't logical... You can't prove me wrong, nor can you prove you are right. Just like I can't prove you are wrong and can't prove that I am right. The only person that matters in this situation is me though... I have proven to myself that it is right. (And if I told you how chances are you wouldn't believe me.)
Try me. Tell me about those proofs. We'll see.

[TheGame]

"Feelings are fact? What about feelings changed by certain drugs? Are they still fact? Or feelings changed by something else like lies or anything else? See? Feelings are as misleading as anything else."

Yep, they are a fact. Look back on your past feelings, how you felt at the time is how you felt at the time, period. Nobody can tell you that dog **** tastes good, if you tasted it and hated it. Your personal feelings are your own. Does that mean they can't change? Nope. You can eat dog **** tomorrow and love it, that doesn't mean you didn't hate it before. Feelings can be misleading, but it is still how you felt or feel...

Ok, maybe "believe" wasn't the word I should have used. The only thing that I would believe would have to be the absolute truth, and because we will never have that (anyways not in a close future) then I will have to say that I don't believe anything. Now when I look to science I would have to say that it make a lot of sense but there is always a BUT. But you, you think and say that religion must be it, it's like you have the absolute truth, and that is not right at all.

I'll believe that it is the absolute truth until proven otherwise. You would think in this advanced society at least one person could have stepped up with "proof" by now that God doesn't exist... but guess what? Hasn't happend yet.

You still have faith in science, faith in them to find an answer that they won't find. You chose to trust one source, I chose to trust another. You will never have absolute truth if you don't believe in anything. It would take a time machine.

Try me. Tell me about those proofs. We'll see.

My proofs are my proofs... you may not see them the same way as me. You'd be like "luck" "coincedence" or maybe simply say I'm insane. There is no need for me to go into any detail on it with you.

I'm off to class now. :p

[TheSlyMoogle]

You would think in this advanced society at least one person could have stepped up with "proof" by now that God doesn't exist... but guess what? Hasn't happend yet.


You would think in this advanced society that someone would have come forth with "Proof" that god exists, but this also hasn't happened.

Continued lack of proof either way has lead me to believe that God probably doesn't exist.

If God does exist, he probably doesn't care about us anyway. Seriously, do you think some being of omnipotent power cares about anything that goes on in your life?

[Crash]

If God does exist, he probably doesn't care about us anyway. Seriously, do you think some being of omnipotent power cares about anything that goes on in your life?

this is how today's children are growing up? LOL

to each his own i guess

[TheSlyMoogle]

this is how today's children are growing up? LOL

to each his own i guess

Well I would like to think if I was an omnipotent being I wouldn't be spending my life playing around with peoples lives.

If there is a god, if he created us, and he did everything, I'm sure he has moved on by now.

Also I'm sure God is genderless, and I just say he because I don't feel like typing God everytime.

[TheGame]

You would think in this advanced society that someone would have come forth with "Proof" that god exists, but this also hasn't happened.

You are right, it hasn't happend because any proof given is dismissed as being invalid or coincedence. But certain people don't see it that way... "proof" is out there, its your choice to accept it or not.

Continued lack of proof either way has lead me to believe that God probably doesn't exist.

And it leads me to believe he does exist. Growing up I didn't have a choice but to follow, and the more I learn about science the stronger my faith gets...

If God does exist, he probably doesn't care about us anyway. Seriously, do you think some being of omnipotent power cares about anything that goes on in your life?

Yep.

[Canyarion]

God has it's reasons for not interfering with us.
He lets Satan try and proof that mankind is better off without God.

He'll act real soon though, making this world a paradise again. With people on it that did what he asked of us. So if you want to look beyond your short life, consider studying the bible...

[TheSlyMoogle]

I'm not here to argue about it...

Gah...

We're two extremes with two different beliefs.

None of us will win or lose.

So this argument has no point.

Furthermore, for future reference, there is no "proof" out there no matter how hard you look.

[Typhoid]

I know there is no god.

Proof came to me last night when i heard on the radio they found a severely burned body in Creston.

What kind of god would kill a man who did nothing?

What kind of god would kill a man who loved everyone around him?

What kind of god would kill a man who just wanted love from his mother?

What kind of god would kill a man so slowly and painfully?

Dont tell me there is a god, for i no longer belive in anything.

[Canyarion]

First of all: my condolences. :(

Ok then. But ask yourself, did GOD kill that man??? ("no, cause he doesn't exist":rolleyes: )

Hells Angels killed him. Not God. God has its reasons for not interfering with mankind... yet.

Just because bad stuff happens, doesn't mean there's no god.
w00ps, I said it. :( Sorry...

God can give you comfort. He can and will ressurect the dead. Patience...

[Joeiss]

God didn't kill that man.

[Crash]

God gave man free agency. That means man can do whatever he wants, so when bad things happen, it's man's fault not God's.

It was just time for that man to return to his Father in Heaven, that is all.

[Joeiss]

It was just time for that man to return to his Father in Heaven, that is all.


Yes, and now he is in a place that is so much better than here.

[Canyarion]

It was just time for that man to return to his Father in Heaven, that is all.
Bah, I hate that belief. As if God DOES take lives...

One day God will ressurect the dead, like Jesus did.

Oh well, none of this makes sense if you don't believe in God...

[Typhoid]

Oh well, none of this makes sense if you don't believe in God...


True. None of it will make sense.


But People are stupid. A person is smart, but collectively people are stupid. One person( religios person) by themselves can think that we are a coincidence of thermal happenings on this planet. But get them together with other religious people and they cave.

Most people just need to add meaning to their small small insignificant lives. They need a higher power. Much like the incas ( or something) worshipped the sun.

Not to semi-quote MIB, but A hundreds and hundreds of years ago people knew Earth was the centre of the universe.
Hundreds of years ago, people knew the earth was flat.
And religious people know there is a god.

To paraphrase George Carlin:

" I dont believe in God, you know why? Because i cant see him. I worship the sun. because I can see it. It gives it that much more credability when i can see it. But i do not pray to the sun, no no no. I pray to Joe Pesci. He seems like the kinda guy who can get things done."


Carlin is my hero.:)

[CamFu]

None of us will win or lose.

So this argument has no point.


Everything depends on how you look at it. Yes, I agree that none of us will win or lose. For the main reason that you can't put your emotion into a post (Smiley's don't count), that is why none of us will win or lose. But I don't agree that this argument has no point. Because you don't think it has a point, doesn't mean there isn't one there.

One big point that I see when religious discussions are made is to see how open minded people are. If somebody doesn't believe in god, I want to see if they are able to open their mind to understand why we believe in God. And if you do believe in God, I want to see if that person can actually see a world without a God.

Ontop of that, you also learn a lot about a person from their beliefs. Believe in God or don't. No matter which one, the desicions that are made in your life are done by beliefs that you hold.


What kind of god would kill a man who did nothing?

What kind of god would kill a man who loved everyone around him?

What kind of god would kill a man who just wanted love from his mother?

What kind of god would kill a man so slowly and painfully?


I'm going to agree with what Crash, Joeiss, and Canyarion has said, but I'm going to expand on what Crash wrote.

Typhoid, it's good that you are questioning things that are happening around the world, even the things we don't want to see. But I think you are going about it in the wrong way, and please don't take offense to this. How much have you looked into your questions? Have you tried to answer them yourself, or with somebody else? That is what free will is all about. Even though you don't believe in God, I believe he let you make that choice. He even gave you the choice to question him.

One last thing, don't ask questions that you might not like the answers to. Remember, just keep an open mind... if you chose to get the answers to the questions that you asked.

[CamFu]

Most people just need to add meaning to their small small insignificant lives. They need a higher power. Much like the incas ( or something) worshipped the sun.


I was just waiting for this comment to come up. It has to every time. This comment could be twisted around and pointed toward people that don't believe in a higher power. But I'm not going to do that here, what I am going to say is that people that believe understand that just because something else is out there doesn't make our life any easier. Actually it makes it harder. For everything we do in this life will be judged, and how we are judged will determine how we are going to spend eternity. If you haven't been a good person, that can actually be a pretty scary thought.



Not to semi-quote MIB, but A hundreds and hundreds of years ago people knew Earth was the centre of the universe.
Hundreds of years ago, people knew the earth was flat.
And religious people know there is a god.


Everything, except whats underlined, is actually past science facts. It wasn't God telling us these things, it was the educated men on the Earth at the time. And who where they to question the geniuses of their time. People have always believed in some higher power.

*edit* alright folks, I'm off to play of BF:V. You are welcome to come and Frag me... if you have xfire and look for shaggymaster. Laters.

[Professor S]

But People are stupid.

Yes. Yes they are. Thank you for pointing that out... over and over again.

[TheGame]

I know there is no god.

Proof came to me last night when i heard on the radio they found a severely burned body in Creston.

What kind of god would kill a man who did nothing?

What kind of god would kill a man who loved everyone around him?

What kind of god would kill a man who just wanted love from his mother?

What kind of god would kill a man so slowly and painfully?

Dont tell me there is a god, for i no longer belive in anything.

The punishment for sin is death. If that man was without sin, he wouldn't have died (Which is impossible because thanks to our grandparents and satan we are born in sin.). Nobody is that innocent except Jesus himself, and he died for our sins, not his own. As for god's intentions, he gave us Jesus... that alone tells if he cares or not.

Now, a better question to ask is why do people who never get the chance to know him die. That's a question I can't answer. But I guess if he cares enough to try and save us sinful people, he cares enough to save the people who don't have access to him on the earth. How? *shrug*

[Typhoid]

Yes. Yes they are. Thank you for pointing that out... over and over again.


I know that you were trying to twist around my words and turn it into an insult on myself, but alas, it did not work.

You see, it would have worked, but it was in the wrong tense.

People means more than one, person means one.

So i dont know how I can represent the stupidity for lots of people.

I can only represent my own. And I think I do that damn well.

[TheGame]

I know that you were trying to twist around my words and turn it into an insult on myself, but alas, it did not work.

You see, it would have worked, but it was in the wrong tense.

People means more than one, person means one.

So i dont know how I can represent the stupidity for lots of people.

I can only represent my own. And I think I do that damn well.

:confused:

[Classic Rocker]

What about Satan? I'm interested in why he really rebelled against God. What is the whole story? Thats what I currently research. If anyone has some information please share.

[Typhoid]

I want to know, While the Christians and Catholics have a Hell, why does Judaism not have one?

[TheSlyMoogle]

The punishment for sin is death. If that man was without sin, he wouldn't have died (Which is impossible because thanks to our grandparents and satan we are born in sin.). Nobody is that innocent except Jesus himself, and he died for our sins, not his own. As for god's intentions, he gave us Jesus... that alone tells if he cares or not.

Now, a better question to ask is why do people who never get the chance to know him die. That's a question I can't answer. But I guess if he cares enough to try and save us sinful people, he cares enough to save the people who don't have access to him on the earth. How? *shrug*

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

"The Punishment for Sin is death."

That's so stupid I don't even want to comment about it.

[Crash]

What about Satan? I'm interested in why he really rebelled against God. What is the whole story? Thats what I currently research. If anyone has some information please share.


there are a couple versions: Satan was becoming very mighty up in heaven and wanted to get some of the glory that God was getting. He wanted to be powerful and take over God's spot to some degree, get worshipers and such, God didn't like that so he had Michael kick ass and take names.

or

Satan was competing with Christ as to who would be the savior of man. Satan said "just let them all be forced to follow God and they'll all be saved". Jesus said "no, we should give them free will and let them decide what they wanna do with their lives" Jesus got the gig and satan was cast out along with 1/3 of the heaven's angels with him.

[Canyarion]

I want to know, While the Christians and Catholics have a Hell, why does Judaism not have one?
The hell isn't even a biblic term. It probably originated from the Greeks, with their 'hades'. The Catholic church used that to scare people.
It's also based on the illustration of Lazarus and the rich man, the 1st one in heaven, the other one in hell.

The bible teaches that when you die, you're dead. You're nowhere, you don't exist. Until you are ressurected to live on paradise on earth.

Some people are given a life in heaven, they will rule the earth together with Jesus.
But the're no hell where people burn for eternity. How could a loving God do that???

[TheGame]

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

"The Punishment for Sin is death."

That's so stupid I don't even want to comment about it.

Well you did comment, so eh. That is the most basic concept in the bible... heck, it was the first lesson in the old testiment.

But the're no hell where people burn for eternity. How could a loving God do that???

If you believe in the stories of the bible, God hasn't exactly been nice to people who deny him. He did send us Jesus which is an act of love, but that doesn't mean god himself isn't capible of making a place like hell.

[Canyarion]

He DESTROYED people. They are gone now. With their death, they payed for their sins. No need to burn in hell!

[Professor S]

So i dont know how I can represent the stupidity for lots of people.

I can only represent my own. And I think I do that damn well.

I stand corrected...

:lol:

[GT News]

So i dont know how I can represent the stupidity for lots of people.

I can only represent my own. And I think I do that damn well.

I stand corrected...

:lol:

That is interesting:
said stand corrected.
I'm glad you find this amusing.

[Typhoid]

That is interesting:
said stand corrected.
I'm glad you find this amusing.



That was a beautiful attempt at a Haiku FooFoobot.

[CamFu]

That is interesting:
said stand corrected.
I'm glad you find this amusing.

Who are you?

[GameMaster]

Who are you?

A forum bot created by Neo to fill in during your absence.

[CamFu]

A forum bot created by Neo to fill in during your absence.

Scary isn't it?

[Typhoid]

Scary isn't it?


He has succeeded you in almost every way possible.

He has more posts.
More rep.
He is well known by everyone but you.
His face is dreamy.


I mean......uh......crap..



*flees*

[CamFu]

He has succeeded you in almost every way possible.

He has more posts.
More rep.
He is well known by everyone but you.
His face is dreamy.


I mean......uh......crap..



*flees*

And we will leave it at that. :wtf:

[GameMaster]

Scary isn't it?

Well, maybe at first, but most people are generally tired of him. If you ever feel like going on a -rep rampage, take CamFuBot to school. :shock:

[dropCGCF]

I'm reading a book titled God's Defenders: What They Believe and Why They Are Wrong. It's a book about atheism, and it's quite interesting, but I'm an agnostic.

[Canyarion]

So who's wrong, the atheists or the theists?

[dropCGCF]

Haven't finished it. The Atheists are winning 27-3 though.

[tkdbabe04]

I totally respect the whole Mormon religion but you know what I don't understand is how you can just change your mind within a month of teachings after you have been with someone for 3 years. I also don't understand how you can become a Mormon when you don't even believe all that they do or believe, you just like the people, and I don't blame you they are amazing people. But do you sacrifice you whole life for something your unsure about, something that you don't even believe yourself?

[Blackmane]

He DESTROYED people. They are gone now. With their death, they payed for their sins. No need to burn in hell!

Face it, the world is sinful. God loves us, but he also punishes us when we are bad. He's like a parent; just because they punish you when your bad doesn't mean they don't love you.

[Canyarion]

Yes, but no parent would slap his child forever, would he?
Of course, when a child does something wrong, it's punished. But AFTER the child is punished, there's no need to keep inflicting it pain, is there?

[Classic Rocker]

Psh I believe organized religion is just meant to control people. People who have no desire to be free and think for themselves. Just my opinion.

I mean..would people really be in the religion if there was no reward? Like going to heaven or living on a pardise earth? Satan brought up that issue with God. I'm just wondering what you all think. I think 3/4th of people would back down from there faith without any reward at the end.

[GameMaster]

The Bible teaches me to be a kind and compassionate person. Anyone who doesn't read it cannot be kind or compassionate. Simple equation: read the Bible and you'll be a good person and you'll have a utopian afterlife. If you don't read it, you're not a good person and you won't have an enjoyable afterlife.

[Canyarion]

Well, you can be a good person, but without belief in God, chances are you won't get eternal life...

The bible makes clear that there are 3 important things: belief, knowledge, actions.

Some people 'just' believe, but that's it. Others are 'only' good people, but don't want to believe in God. Others know a lot of the bible, but have lost faith in it (theologists and stuff)...

[Typhoid]

Anyone who doesn't read it cannot be kind or compassionate. Simple equation: read the Bible and you'll be a good person and you'll have a utopian afterlife. If you don't read it, you're not a good person and you won't have an enjoyable afterlife.


Thats slightly narrowminded my friend.

So your telling me, if I dont read a book I have no interest in reading, yet i change nothing abouyt myself, suddenly I am labeled as a bad person?

I dont get it. How can reading a book make you a good person, and If you dont read it your not a good person.

Did Jesus read the Bible? No. Is he a good person? Yes.

Reading a book about things makes you no more of a good person than breathing makes you able to fly.

[GameMaster]

The Bible is no ordinary book my comrade, it is a book of God. Whether the Bible you read from is from a hotel or from a museum, it is better than all other books of this world. And that is not an opinion, it is pure fact and truth.

[Typhoid]

The Bible is no ordinary book my comrade, it is a book of God. Whether the Bible you read from is from a hotel or from a museum, it is better than all other books of this world. And that is not an opinion, it is pure fact and truth.


So your saying anyone who hasnt read the Bible is bad then?

[TheGame]

So your saying anyone who hasnt read the Bible is bad then?

That depends on what you mean by bad. The way I see it, man in general is "bad" we all sin. You don't have to read anything, you just have to believe in him... The words of the Bible are the truth. If you want the truth, read, if you don't want the truth... well, that's too bad. I can't convince you of anything, that's not my job. You have some access the bible, you have eyes, and you can read. My tip, read it. If you don't want to, that's your own problem.

[Joeiss]

Doing something nice is great, but won't get you to heaven. Doing something nice in the name of God is great, and will get you into heaven.

Our actions are meaningless unless we do it for God.

[Typhoid]

Doing something nice is great, but won't get you to heaven. Doing something nice in the name of God is great, and will get you into heaven.

Our actions are meaningless unless we do it for God.


But sometimes some religions in the middle east kill for the name of their god. Yet, they are still wrong and bad.


religion doesnt justify anything. good or bad.

So your telling me, if i give $10 billion to a childrens school i wont go to heaven, because its not in the name of God?

If I save a busload of childrens lives, I wont go to heaven because i didnt do it for God?


The way I see it, man in general is "bad" we all sin

What exactly did Mother Theresa do? The woman was a saint. Like, literally. Oh wait...riiight, origional sin. The thing that backs up the "fact" everyone will go to hell and so on and so forth.

I think religion ws made by some king, or ruler of the days of old, like a scare tactic to follow the laws of that particular man. Think about it. Who would oppose his opinion? He would have you beheaded.

King : "Follow my laws or go to hell!!"
Villagers: "Hell? whats hell?"
King: "A place of fire and eternal torment."
Villagers : " Wait, how do you know?"
King: "God told me."
Villagers: "You didnt talk to god."
King: "Guards, behead him!!"

See, its that simple.

I think it was a scare tactic to get people to do what you wanted with grave concequences if they didnt listen.

Can anyone prove the existance of Heaven or Hell? no.
Can anyone prove the existance of God? No.
Yet people are so ready to defend something that has not been proven to exist. Like ghosts. Or vampires. Or zombies.

And everyone just says "Oh, God exists, because it says so in the bible!!"
Well, i read a book once where it says dragons ae real. Are they? No. Does anyone defend to their grave that they are? No, not really.

Because if someone comes at you with a knife shouting : "Ill kill you if you say dragons are real!!" you will say they dont exist, because Dragons show no promise in afterlife.

Yet, if the same man runs up and yells : "Ill kill you if you say God is real!!!!" if you were religious, you would say he is, because you believe in an afterlfe of warmth and love.

I think religion is juist so people can feel meanigful. So they feel like they know something. And the idea that we go to Heaven after we die (assuming you are good) makes it so people dont freak out when they are terminally ill.

And the threat of Hell is supposed to differ you from doing bad things.

But where in the bible does it say something about people who are good AND bad? Where do they go?

Rough examples:

If you save a busload of children, you go to heaven.
If you kill a man, you go to hell.
But what if you save a busload of children while killing a man? Where do you go? What happens?

And another thing, why dont the Jews have hell? Dont you pray to he same god as Christians/Catholics etc.?

[TheGame]

What exactly did Mother Theresa do? The woman was a saint. Like, literally. Oh wait...riiight, origional sin. The thing that backs up the "fact" everyone will go to hell and so on and so forth.

The fact that everyone would go to hell? You like taking things overboard eh? Just because we all sin it doesn't mean we can't be forgiven for them. You can be the worst killer of innocent people in the world, and if you ask for forgivness and truly know in your heart that you were wrong and that you will do everything in your power not do it again... you are forgiven. If you lead a nice life but you manage to kill somone on purpose, and you ask for forgivness but aren't sorry for what you did and would turn around and do it again if you have a chance, you aren't forgiven. The key is: You must believe... period. If you believe in God, you will obey him, and feel like crap when you don't.

You can't buy your way into heaven. One action doesn't speak for your entire life. Maybe you should read the bible and answer your own questions. The thought that one who does bad goes to hell period proves that you don't know what you are talking about... I've sinned just as much as the next man.

[Bond]

But sometimes some religions in the middle east kill for the name of their god. Yet, they are still wrong and bad.


religion doesnt justify anything. good or bad.

So your telling me, if i give $10 billion to a childrens school i wont go to heaven, because its not in the name of God?

If I save a busload of childrens lives, I wont go to heaven because i didnt do it for God?




What exactly did Mother Theresa do? The woman was a saint. Like, literally. Oh wait...riiight, origional sin. The thing that backs up the "fact" everyone will go to hell and so on and so forth.

I think religion ws made by some king, or ruler of the days of old, like a scare tactic to follow the laws of that particular man. Think about it. Who would oppose his opinion? He would have you beheaded.

King : "Follow my laws or go to hell!!"
Villagers: "Hell? whats hell?"
King: "A place of fire and eternal torment."
Villagers : " Wait, how do you know?"
King: "God told me."
Villagers: "You didnt talk to god."
King: "Guards, behead him!!"

See, its that simple.

I think it was a scare tactic to get people to do what you wanted with grave concequences if they didnt listen.

Can anyone prove the existance of Heaven or Hell? no.
Can anyone prove the existance of God? No.
Yet people are so ready to defend something that has not been proven to exist. Like ghosts. Or vampires. Or zombies.

And everyone just says "Oh, God exists, because it says so in the bible!!"
Well, i read a book once where it says dragons ae real. Are they? No. Does anyone defend to their grave that they are? No, not really.

Because if someone comes at you with a knife shouting : "Ill kill you if you say dragons are real!!" you will say they dont exist, because Dragons show no promise in afterlife.

Yet, if the same man runs up and yells : "Ill kill you if you say God is real!!!!" if you were religious, you would say he is, because you believe in an afterlfe of warmth and love.

I think religion is juist so people can feel meanigful. So they feel like they know something. And the idea that we go to Heaven after we die (assuming you are good) makes it so people dont freak out when they are terminally ill.

And the threat of Hell is supposed to differ you from doing bad things.

But where in the bible does it say something about people who are good AND bad? Where do they go?

Rough examples:

If you save a busload of children, you go to heaven.
If you kill a man, you go to hell.
But what if you save a busload of children while killing a man? Where do you go? What happens?

And another thing, why dont the Jews have hell? Dont you pray to he same god as Christians/Catholics etc.?

Y-o-u d-o n-o-t k-n-o-w w-h-a-t y-o-u a-r-e t-a-l-k-i-n-g a-b-o-u-t.

[Typhoid]

Y-o-u d-o n-o-t k-n-o-w w-h-a-t y-o-u a-r-e t-a-l-k-i-n-g a-b-o-u-t.



That was quite the convincing response. It has changed my perspective on everything now.


*Reads the Bible*

[Crono]

I'll say some things to you Typhoid:

Christianity and Catholicism are the same thing. Cathlocism is just a branch of the Christain faith. Not sure if you knew that or not, just letting you know.

There are a number of things science has not been able to prove. So why do you single out a religion? Science has not proven where the first human came from, it's all a theory. And that's exactly what religion is, IMO... just a theory. Not proven to be true. Not proven to be false.

[Typhoid]

I'll say some things to you Typhoid:

Christianity and Catholicism are the same thing. Cathlocism is just a branch of the Christain faith. Not sure if you knew that or not, just letting you know.

There are a number of things science has not been able to prove. So why do you single out a religion? Science has not proven where the first human came from, it's all a theory. And that's exactly what religion is, IMO... just a theory. Not proven to be true. Not proven to be false.



I know they are the same.

And i never said Science hasnt provent God exists, or Heaven, or Hell. I just said It hasnt been proven. Nobody has been there, nobody has seen God. Nobody has been to hell and back, or to heaven and back.

And like i said, i have nothing against religion, or religious people. I seem o get harped on here so much for anything I say, when in fact I have nothing agaisnt any of the people that view otherwise than me. I could take equal insult about religious people saying God does exist, because im Athiest, and technically, God is against my "religion". And people keep forcing religion on me.

Religion gives meaning to people, and I understand and respect that.


It just makes me mad because i always gett he perverbial gangbang of arguments for saying what I believe. Yet, I harp on none of you.

And Thusly, I am tired of being the perverbial black man in the circle of the KKK, so I am taking a break.

[GameMaster]

We're not against you, Sean, we just want you to experience the same glory and peace in your life as we do in ours through the power of God's almighty care and love. All you have to do is put your faith in him.

It's the only way the feelings of sadness, despair, and lonliness you feel will go away. Medicine can't replicate God's love.

[The Germanator]

We're not against you, Sean, we just want you to experience the same glory and peace in your life as we do in ours through the power of God's almighty care and love. All you have to do is put your faith in him.

It's the only way the feelings of sadness, despair, and lonliness you feel will go away. Medicine can't replicate God's love.

You sound like those damned Jehovah's that come to my door every month.

[Joeiss]

"If I save a busload of childrens lives, I wont go to heaven because i didnt do it for God?"

No. If you are a non-believer, you will not go to heaven. If you believe in God, you will.

If you are a non believer, you still did a great thing, but it is meaningless. Christians live their lives to go to heaven for eternity. I am not sure if you understand that. So everything that we do should be done for our faith.

[Typhoid]

"If I save a busload of childrens lives, I wont go to heaven because i didnt do it for God?"

No. If you are a non-believer, you will not go to heaven. If you believe in God, you will.

If you are a non believer, you still did a great thing, but it is meaningless. Christians live their lives to go to heaven for eternity. I am not sure if you understand that. So everything that we do should be done for our faith.



Do you take a big steamy sh*t every morning in Gods name?

Have you ever had pre-marital sex for God? (Totally forget which religions that is for)

I understand where you come from and what your saying, i justhate it when people seem to push their religion, or religious beliefs upon me. I know nobody is directing them at me...well....except GM in his last post. But its no big deal.

I just dont get the idea of devoting your life to something.

But i revert back to what i said, religion is geographical.

If any of us grew up in the Middle East, we would be Muslim, (most likely) If we grew up in Utah, we would be Mormon, if we grew up in Japan we would be Shintoists.

How many American born, white Shintoists do you see?

How many Asian born Muslims are there?


9And yes, I am singling out certain religions, because these are the only ones that came to my head.)

[GameMaster]

Dearest Sean, you are missing the stress of our proclamations.

It is not WHAT you do for God, but rather WHY you do for God.

We serve God in appreciation and holy thanks for his ultimate sacrifise.

A life under God, is the only correct life.

And those who are not under God, have not yet allowed themselves to be succumbed by his beacon of righteousness. And until they do, they will not feel salvation in their Earthly lives and they will not be granted access to his Holy Kingdom in the after life.

[Typhoid]

Dearest Sean, you are missing the stress of our proclamations.

It is not WHAT you do for God, but rather WHY you do for God.

We serve God in appreciation and holy thanks for his ultimate sacrifise.

A life under God, is the only correct life.

And those who are not under God, have not yet allowed themselves to be succumbed by his beacon of righteousness. And until they do, they will not feel salvation in their Earthly lives and they will not be granted access to his Holy Kingdom in the after life.



Dearest Jeff.

What exactly did God sacrifice?

No, the life under God is not the only correct life, I am living a correct life without god. Its subjective. You think Im wrong for not believing in God, and while i dont think your wrong, i dont understand it, nor will I.

I feel salvated, thank you very much.

Dont make assumptions about how athiests live and think. We are the same people. Just because we dont pray to some imaginary old man in the sky doesnt mean were wrong, It means we have different beliefs, in a way, Atheism could be considered a religion. In a way. Not a religious way. :p

[Joeiss]

Dearest Jeff.

What exactly did God sacrifice?



What did God sacrifice? WHAT DID GOD SACRIFICE?

What do you think the basis of Christianity is? God sacrificed his only Son for us. That is what God sacrificed for us.

Do you take a big steamy sh*t every morning in Gods name?

Have you ever had pre-marital sex for God? (Totally forget which religions that is for)

I understand where you come from and what your saying, i justhate it when people seem to push their religion, or religious beliefs upon me. I know nobody is directing them at me...well....except GM in his last post. But its no big deal.

I just dont get the idea of devoting your life to something.

But i revert back to what i said, religion is geographical.

If any of us grew up in the Middle East, we would be Muslim, (most likely) If we grew up in Utah, we would be Mormon, if we grew up in Japan we would be Shintoists.

How many American born, white Shintoists do you see?

How many Asian born Muslims are there?


9And yes, I am singling out certain religions, because these are the only ones that came to my head.)

No, I have never had pre-marital sex.

I do not think anybody here is pushing their beliefs on you. You are just making some random statements about people's religion, and they are posting what they feel about it. Calm down.

You don't get the idea of devoting your life to something? So when you are married and have kids, you won't be devoting your life to them? When you have a well-paying job that you love, you won't devote a large portion of your life to that? I think devoting our lives to God is a great way to get by in the real world. It teaches us morals and when we have our own families, it teaches us how to devote ourselves to them better.

Yes, religion is mostly geographical, but you forgot to mention how many people convert during their lives. Many people convert to Christianity, and many people convert out of it. Most people are shown different religiions and different paths, so they can find their way in life.

[GameMaster]

Misguided Sean,

God sacrifised his one and only son to pay for mankind's sins. And as long as you believe in him, you will not perish, you will instead go on to a glorious life of eternal peace and happiness.

You say that you are living a correct life and that you feel salvated but these are illusions you are tempted with by the spirit and soul of evil. They are unauthentic feelings and made only to pull you away from the correct path which is servitude under God. You are falling to temptations, but you can be saved and rekindled by the power of God just as long as you place your faith in his Almighty hands. If you can't do it alone, there are people who can help you, myself included. I believe you will do the right thing.

[Canyarion]

You sound like those damned Jehovah's that come to my door every month.
THANKS!

So now I'm damned because I'm a Jehovah's Witness???

I am not the one pushing my belief on anyone here...

And besides, we don't visit you every month. More like twice a year.
:unsure:

[The Duggler]

The Bible teaches me to be a kind and compassionate person. Anyone who doesn't read it cannot be kind or compassionate. Simple equation: read the Bible and you'll be a good person and you'll have a utopian afterlife. If you don't read it, you're not a good person and you won't have an enjoyable afterlife.

The Bible is no ordinary book my comrade, it is a book of God. Whether the Bible you read from is from a hotel or from a museum, it is better than all other books of this world. And that is not an opinion, it is pure fact and truth.

Am I the only one here that thinks that those quotes are terribly wrong and offensive?

It's one think to believe in something my friend, but it's another to say that anybody or anything else that is not part of your beliefs is inferior. It's obnoxious, and the cause of all the inter-religious conflicts of this world.

Keep up the good work, gamemaster...

[The Germanator]

THANKS!

So now I'm damned because I'm a Jehovah's Witness???

I am not the one pushing my belief on anyone here...

And besides, we don't visit you every month. More like twice a year.
:unsure:

I don't personally have anything against them...It's just that I don't understand why they have to keep coming back. We live in the country, in the middle of nowhere. They have to drive out to see us...it just seems like a lot of effort for a cause that if it doesn't work the first time you come to someone's house, it probably will not work the second time.

Anyway, I think the reason they keep returning is because my Step-dad is always real nice to them. If he isn't home I usually just pretend I'm not there either so I don't have to interact with them and feel awkward...

Canyarion, you've never come to my door, so you're not damned. :D

[Crono]

Am I the only one here that thinks that those quotes are terribly wrong and offensive?




Though I was raised as Catholic, that has to be one of the most retarded things I've ever read at these forums. And would no doubt be offense to A LOT of people. Now whether or not he was serious, I don't know, and don't care.

Good job, GameMaster!

[thatmariolover]

If you are a non-believer, you will not go to heaven. If you believe in God, you will.

If you are a non believer, you still did a great thing, but it is meaningless. Christians live their lives to go to heaven for eternity. I am not sure if you understand that. So everything that we do should be done for our faith.

Okay, so if I go out on a killing spree and murder 1,000 people I’m gonna go to Heaven as long as I believe in God?

Sounds like you can justify what happened on 9/11 just because the people who did it believe in their God. Or maybe not, since they don’t believe in your Christian God? So then, anybody who isn’t Christian is going to Hell right?

So what about the millions of people that grow up in small countries that are never even introduced to Christianity? Just because they weren’t taught about your Christian beliefs they’re gonna go to Hell? You believe that any loving God would condemn so many people for an ignorance they didn’t choose to have? I mean... Wow... :rolleyes:

Why should somebody be judged by what they believe? That’s not important. Who you are, what you feel, and why you live your life the way you live it – somehow those things seem a little bit more important. But maybe that’s just me.

I just can’t believe how intolerant some Christians are. It just disgusts me to be one sometimes...

The Bible is no ordinary book my comrade, it is a book of God. Whether the Bible you read from is from a hotel or from a museum, it is better than all other books of this world. And that is not an opinion, it is pure fact and truth.

It was written by men in the name of God. Just because I take a crap and say God told me to do it doesn't mean he did. I believe what God shows me. I don't have to believe everything that was written in a book by a bunch of people thousands of years ago. I believe some of the things in the Bible. I'm a Christian, I believe in Jesus. But that has nothing to do with me being a good person.

[jeepnut]

I would like to remind everyone that this is Gamemaster making these statements. Let's think about that for a second. Is it even possible for him to be serious when talking about something other than video games?

[Canyarion]

I don't personally have anything against them...It's just that I don't understand why they have to keep coming back. We live in the country, in the middle of nowhere. They have to drive out to see us...it just seems like a lot of effort for a cause that if it doesn't work the first time you come to someone's house, it probably will not work the second time.

Anyway, I think the reason they keep returning is because my Step-dad is always real nice to them. If he isn't home I usually just pretend I'm not there either so I don't have to interact with them and feel awkward...

Canyarion, you've never come to my door, so you're not damned. :D
Well first of all, if you pretend to not be at home, yes, they will come back next week.
We keep track of who was home and who wasn't, so you better just open up. :D

And there are plenty of cases where people were always agressive towards us, but after a while something happens and they're suddenly interested and became our brother or sister.
Coming back helps, really. :)

And perhaps I don't come at your door, but I come at others, so........ :unsure:

Think about it, if we do so much effort to tell people, it must be very important. :)

[Typhoid]

And there are plenty of cases where people were always agressive towards us, but after a while something happens and they're suddenly interested and became our brother or sister.
Coming back helps, really. :)



Whenever Jehovas or whoever it maybe come to our door, we let them in, then My dad and me try and convert them to Atheism. Its quite humerous, really.

[Canyarion]

Ghehe that's actually not bad. But they'll realise soon enough that there's no point in discussing with SOME people...
Edit: I think it's réaly hard to convince a Jehova's Witness that there is no God. :D We kinda... know better.. :sneaky:

[dropCGCF]

Ghehe that's actually not bad. But they'll realise soon enough that there's no point in discussing with SOME people...
Edit: I think it's réaly hard to convince a Jehova's Witness that there is no God. :D We kinda... know better.. :sneaky:
I don't like Jehovah's witnesses in general. They come to my house, trying to convert me. I say that I'm a Muslim extremist and that I either have to convert them or kill them. Hilarity ensues.
I don't force my beliefs on them, do I? Why should they force theirs on mine? I don't think it says anywhere in your doctrine that you're supposed to annoy people.
I say that the man who does good out of love for his fellow man is more rightgeous than the one who does it because his god tells him to. Any slack-jawed yokel can say a few psalms and praise God fo the wonders of what he can't explain. It takes a wise man to try and figure out the answers.

[mickydaniels]

.
I don't force my beliefs on them, do I? Why should they force theirs on mine? I don't think it says anywhere in your doctrine that you're supposed to annoy people.
But if you feel that your religion is right and true and it is foretold that massive calamity is going to befall your neighbors, and they don't know about it, don't you have a responsibilty to let them know in advance, so that they could at least prepare? Just like with the hurricanes, for example. Let's say you lived in Florida and had a neighbor that never comes outside, and has no TV or radio. Meanwhile one of these hurricanes is coming and will hit your neighborhood. Isn't it your duty to let him know about what's going on, so he could make a decision on what to do? And if something bad happened because of that storm, aren't you going to feel guilty knowing that you could have at least warned him?


I say that the man who does good out of love for his fellow man is more rightgeous than the one who does it because his god tells him to.
I don't think so. You know why? Because God can tell you to do something, but you don't necessarily have to do it; you can turn the other way and refuse. He has never operated under the motto of "Do what I say, or else", otherwise, you'd be struck dead the first time you commit a serious sin. And also, you have a foundation on why you do the things you do. If you do good out of love for your fellow man, you're functioning under feelings, and everyone knows feelings are subject to change. God is not.


Any slack-jawed yokel can say a few psalms and praise God fo the wonders of what he can't explain. It takes a wise man to try and figure out the answers.


Figure out the answers to what?

[dropCGCF]

But if you feel that your religion is right and true and it is foretold that massive calamity is going to befall your neighbors, and they don't know about it, don't you have a responsibilty to let them know in advance, so that they could at least prepare? Just like with the hurricanes, for example. Let's say you lived in Florida and had a neighbor that never comes outside, and has no TV or radio. Meanwhile one of these hurricanes is coming and will hit your neighborhood. Isn't it your duty to let him know about what's going on, so he could make a decision on what to do? And if something bad happened because of that storm, aren't you going to feel guilty knowing that you could have at least warned him?

It's commonly accepted fact that the hurricane is coming, right? Well, for one, right now, i want to warn you that the unicorns are going to return.

Scoffing, are you? You're defending the same thing. No one man can prove definitively that god exists. He can just prove things wrong on why he can't exist. Prove to me that unicorns aren't coming back, or even that they never existed. Guess what? You can't. What's the use in warning people about a hurricane if you can't prove there's one there?


I don't think so. You know why? Because God can tell you to do something, but you don't necessarily have to do it; you can turn the other way and refuse. He has never operated under the motto of "Do what I say, or else", otherwise, you'd be struck dead the first time you commit a serious sin. And also, you have a foundation on why you do the things you do. If you do good out of love for your fellow man, you're functioning under feelings, and everyone knows feelings are subject to change. God is not.

Sure, God can't tell you what to do. HE'll love you anyways no matter what you do, right? Then what's the point of preaching his goodness? He'll love me no matter what I do, right? So leave me the hell alone.
You're contradicting yourself, saying that I need to be warned of "massive calamity" when it doesn't matter whether it happens or not because I'll be saved anyways.


Figure out the answers to what?

Life's riddles. It's easier for a man to explain the mysteries of the universe in terms of god, but it's a lot more taxing to actually try and solve those mysteries.

[TheSlyMoogle]

A few centuries ago it was widely accepted that there were many Gods who ruled in a counsel.

A few centuries ago people believed the earth is flat.

A few centuries ago people believed the earth was the center of the universe.

A few centuries ago the people believed that the Roman Catholics weren't lying to them.

A few years ago the people believed Child Molestation didn't happen in the catholic church system.

A Few centuries from now, won't it be amazing to see that things we don't believe in anymore?

[thatmariolover]

A Few centuries from now, won't it be amazing to see that things we don't believe in anymore?

And on the flipside, the things that we do.

[Joeiss]

2000 years ago Christianity started, and it is still going strong. I believe in 2000 years there will still be Christianity.

[Typhoid]

A Few centuries from now, won't it be amazing to see that things we don't believe in anymore?


2000 years ago Christianity started, and it is still going strong. I believe in 2000 years there will still be Christianity.


I like how you just assume hes talking about only Christianity.

What if hes not even talking about religion at all?







(I know he is, im just sayin is all..)

[Kitana85]

A few centuries ago it was widely accepted that there were many Gods who ruled in a counsel.

A few centuries ago people believed the earth is flat.

A few centuries ago people believed the earth was the center of the universe.

A few centuries ago the people believed that the Roman Catholics weren't lying to them.

A few years ago the people believed Child Molestation didn't happen in the catholic church system.

A Few centuries from now, won't it be amazing to see that things we don't believe in anymore?

And yet, for all that, they always believed in something... whether it be one God, or many, since the times of the Neaderthals, we have always had a belief in the "something more."

I'm not sure if it will be amazing what we don't believe in, so much as what our present beliefs will have morphed into

[Joeiss]

I like how you just assume hes talking about only Christianity.

What if hes not even talking about religion at all?







(I know he is, im just sayin is all..)

If you know he is, then why even comment? Like really, this whole thread has been about Christianity.

[Typhoid]

I will Quote Hoobastank. (Whose lyrics of this song I love, read the lyrics, and think about them, then argue with one another.)

-----------------Same Direction-------------
"Whenever i step outside, somebody claims to see the light
It seems to me that all of us have lost our patience.
'cause everyone thinks they're right,
And nobody thinks that there just might
Be more than one way to our final destination

But i'm not ever going to know if i'm right or wrong
'cause we're all going in the same direction
And i'm not sure which way to go because all along
We've been going in the same direction

I'm tired of playing games, of looking for someone else to blame
For all the holes in answers that are clearly showing
For something to fill the space, was all of the time i spent a waste
'cause so many choices point the same way i was going.....

But i'm not ever going to know if i'm right or wrong
'cause we're all going in the same direction
And i'm not sure which way to go because all along
We've been going in the same direction

So why does there only have to be one correct philosophy?
I don't want to go and follow you just to end up like one of them
And why are you always telling me what you want me to believe?
I'd like to think that i can go my own way and meet you in the end.

But i'm not ever going to know if i'm right or wrong
'cause we're all going in the same direction
And i'm not sure which way to go because all along
We've been going in the same direction"

[mickydaniels]

Sure, God can't tell you what to do. HE'll love you anyways no matter what you do, right? Then what's the point of preaching his goodness? He'll love me no matter what I do, right? So leave me the hell alone.
You're contradicting yourself, saying that I need to be warned of "massive calamity" when it doesn't matter whether it happens or not because I'll be saved anyways.
.

He'll love you no matter what? Where the hell did you get that from? You won't get saved anyway, because mercy does not last forever. It gives you a chance to come to the proper path, and if you ignore it, then you are destroyed. You are given a warning and a chance for an out when you are being preached to. You choose to reject knowing the consequences, and the calamity befalls you. Like I said, you can either choose to listen or not listen. That's what I meant by you are not forced to do anything.

[dropCGCF]

He'll love you no matter what? Where the hell did you get that from? You won't get saved anyway, because mercy does not last forever. It gives you a chance to come to the proper path, and if you ignore it, then you are destroyed. You are given a warning and a chance for an out when you are being preached to. You choose to reject knowing the consequences, and the calamity befalls you. Like I said, you can either choose to listen or not listen. That's what I meant by you are not forced to do anything.

So what about the priest who tried to brainwash me with lies? Was he directing me to the proper path?

Also, you still haven't proved to me that you know there is a proper path. And some people never get a chance to listen to whatever you're preaching. What happens to them? You need to think about this from a logical perspective. I think God would be pretty screwed up if he judged me on if I believe in him or not. Some atheists I know are the nicest people in the world. Some Catholics I know are the worst people in the world who get their weekly dose of God and go out and sin again. You're telling me those atheists are going to hell? That's screwed up. If that's the way it is, I'd rather go to hell.

[Bond]

There is not one proper path. There are many ways to the proper place.

[Xantar]

Here's something I've figured out after thinking about it for a while recently: all religions are saying the same thing. They're all headed to the same place if you think about them.

Consider the teachings of Buddhism. It teaches (broadly speaking) that people suffer in life and that the only way to escape that suffering is to shed your earthly attachments. This has a number of meanings. The most obvious is that physical objects, money and rich food aren't worth much. Buddha realized that the pursuit of material goods is futile because no matter how much we horde, we will still be unhappy. Getting that new car might make you feel great for a day or two, but it won't take too long before you get used to it and then start wanting that latest, even more expensive new car.

But there's more to it than that. If you simply sold all your possessions, you still would be miserable. What you have to do is believe, truly believe, that none of it matters. And that's hard. The vast majority of us will fail at that. You try looking at a gold statue and rock statue and believing that they're really all the same. What you have to realize is that you only place value in the one over the other because you've been taught to believe that it is more valuable. But if you had been raised all your life believing that gold is useless and aluminum is to be coveted, who is to say that's not an equally valid view of the world? It's all just a trick your mind plays on you.

And isn't that the same thing as what Judaism, Christianity and Islam teach? In their own way, they are all saying that these earthly possessions around us mean nothing. It's the afterlife that counts (in Buddhism, it's the reincarnation). But here's the thing: many Christians, just like many Buddhists, can't fully grasp the implications of their religion. You probably know someone who goes to church and repeats all the phrases but still experiences moments of doubt and unhappiness. It's part of the same problem. They are still too attached to the world. They don't grasp the bigger picture.

We all know in our heart of hearts whether we are spiritually fulfilled or not. If you are and you look deep within yourself, you might realize that it has very little to do with the fact that you refer to God under one name and not another. Rather, it's because you've absorbed the teachings of His religion, whichever it is, about how to live your life and how to see the world.

Why argue about believing in one God or another? His existence can't be proven or disproven by His very nature, so arguments (or wars) on the matter are pointless. It's just going to make you sad, frustrated or dead. And why should following your religion cause you anguish? It doesn't make sense.

So if you're satisfied with your beliefs after thinking about them closely, then so be it. I'm happy for you. But if you really are so confident in your beliefs, you will also have realized that you have no need to convince anybody else to see it your way.

[Kitana85]

Xanny, I couldn't disagree with you more!! The basis of certain religions, strict forms of Christianity for example (the easiest example) is that one has to take Christ as their savior. If this is not, the person will suffer for eternity. One would not want others to suffer, so they must show others that this path is true... they are told it is their duty to do so...

[Classic Rocker]

Here is my .02 cents.

Just think rationally about your beliefs. The bible has a lot of good information in it. The 10 commandments bring content to society. Jesus spread his interesting philosophy on treating people and living life. The bible represents mankind. Read it with another persepective. Just because two people are of the same faith, does not mean they act and behave the same way. Some focus more on one part of there faith then the other.

Thats all I'm gonna type for now. If anyone is interested, I'll post more later.

[Xantar]

Xanny, I couldn't disagree with you more!! The basis of certain religions, strict forms of Christianity for example (the easiest example) is that one has to take Christ as their savior. If this is not, the person will suffer for eternity. One would not want others to suffer, so they must show others that this path is true... they are told it is their duty to do so...

There's a difference between religion and Religion. One is the actual teachings according to sacred texts, stories and other such things passed from generation to generation. The other is the human interpretation of what it means. Christianity is simply any religion that derives its teachings from the New Testament and some other works. What differentiates the Evangelists from the Lutherans from the Baptists from the Episcopalians is what humans choose to emphasize about those teachings. But it's not as if they use a different Bible.

I was talking about the first. And the point I was trying to make was that human interpretation has been proven (sometimes tragically) to be fallible. Even when it comes to God. Why do some Christians believe it is their duty to convert everyone while others believe the truly Christian thing to do is to tolerate everybody? Different viewpoints shaped by different upbringings. That's all.

It doesn't change the fact that Christianity, at its core, is about living the good life regardless of your material surroundings.

[GameMaster]

http://stefan.pader.de/gifs/god%20put%20a%20smile%20uon%20my%20face.jpg

Just wanted to post that, please carry on where Xantar left off.

[Classic Rocker]

Anyone know what religion follows the philosophy "rock and roll all night, and party every day"? :D

[Typhoid]

Anyone know what religion follows the philosophy "rock and roll all night, and party every day"? :D



Kissism?

Kisstianity?

Kissaiism?

Kissolocism?

[dropCGCF]

It doesn't change the fact that Christianity, at its core, is about living the good life regardless of your material surroundings.

Agreed.

All religion is that at it's core. Exrtreme fundamentalists just take the tachings way too far because they're taking things all too literally.

[Kitana85]

There's a difference between religion and Religion. One is the actual teachings according to sacred texts, stories and other such things passed from generation to generation. The other is the human interpretation of what it means.

So if you're satisfied with your beliefs after thinking about them closely, then so be it. I'm happy for you. But if you really are so confident in your beliefs, you will also have realized that you have no need to convince anybody else to see it your way.

You totally missed the point of my post, or of yours. You are saying that people shouldn't try to convert others, and what I'm saying is that those who do DON'T HAVE A CHOICE. We may disagree and believe they do have a choice, however, they KNOW with all their heart, and all their soul, and all their mind, and all their strength, that they must HELP other people. It isn't always an issue of being confident-- this might be hard for what I'm assuming is an antheist Buddist-- to understand, but this is their duty-- its not an issue of Religion vs religion.

Your definition of Christianity also leaves me baffled. Christianity is (according to a few dictionaries I checked):"a religion based on the Life and Teachings of Jesus Christ."
By asserting that it is Jesus CHRIST, it implies to to belong you assume Jesus is Christ, or he would not be called as such. Assuming now, that the belief holds that Jesus is Messiah, thus, he frees all from sin, and his own comments that "all who believe in me shall have eternal life," as well as many others that I could quote Chapter and verse, there is a theme of the necessity of taking Christ as ones personal savior.

HOWEVER, as you pointed out, many, including, many RC's, Episcopalians (me), E. Lutherans, etc, are more tolerant, however, they (we), will most often admit that thought that is what the scripture says, we basically aren't listening to that part. Take that as you will.
Christianity teaches, at its core, that Christ Jesus is THE way, THE truth, and The life (I can quote c:v if you like). Though many of us in these groups believe in many paths to the one end, that is personal preference NOT religious teaching.

What I'm basically saying is that its not an issue of what's been passed down, or what was originally there, its what one has to do to achieve the ultimate closeness with God (and ridding others of being farther away). What various people believe are different, but some of them believe converting others is both necessesary, and the ultimate compassion.

[Professor S]

[COLOR=DeepSkyBlue]You totally missed the point of my post, or of yours. You are saying that people shouldn't try to convert others, and what I'm saying is that those who do DON'T HAVE A CHOICE. We may disagree and believe they do have a choice, however, they KNOW with all their heart, and all their soul, and all their mind, and all their strength, that they must HELP other people. It isn't always an issue of being confident-- this might be hard for what I'm assuming is an antheist Buddist-- to understand, but this is their duty-- its not an issue of Religion vs religion.

How very theocentric of you.

[Xantar]

HOWEVER, as you pointed out, many, including, many RC's, Episcopalians (me), E. Lutherans, etc, are more tolerant, however, they (we), will most often admit that thought that is what the scripture says, we basically aren't listening to that part.

This is the point I'm trying to make. Some Christian denominations do not feel that same strong duty to convert unbelievers. As you say, they are essentially ignoring scripture in order to do this. Well, why is that? Are they bad Christians? Are they going to hell? I think some of them would say that The Bible was written by humans and is thus not a perfect work to be strictly adhered to. You can agree or disagree with them. The point is, it's their interpretation. And they can support their position as intelligently as anyone.

Other denominations believe it is their duty to convert unbelievers, as you said. And that's because, I suppose, they take the Bible as the literal word of God and infallible, meaning that every single verse must be adhered to.

The differences between these groups, as you said, is how they interpret the Bible. And yes, you can't really construe the Bible as saying, "Don't go forth and spread my word." But you can question whether that's really so important and worth paying attention to.

Here's the thing, though: all Christian denominations accept (at least in theory) material wealth has nothing to do with the strength of our moral character or whether we are living the good life. Ask any devout Christian about that and they will all give the same answer. And on that point, they also agree with Muslims. And Jews. And Buddhists.

I submit to you that this is no coincidence. And if the idea is so universal, maybe it's worth paying some close attention to. And maybe that's the really important message of religion. Any of them.

[The Duggler]

http://stefan.pader.de/gifs/god%20put%20a%20smile%20uon%20my%20face.jpg

Just wanted to post that, please carry on where Xantar left off.

I don't understand you.

[GameMaster]

I don't understand you.

Why focus on my picture when there's a wealth of good conversation and debate going on right now within this thread? I've seen what you got, now go get them, friend! :)

[Canyarion]

BTW: welcome 'back' Xanny. ;)

So they let you out of your lab????

Something I want to say about this matter:
People that think that every religion is good enough, back it up by saying opinions.
We say that there's only 1 religion and we back it up by what the bible says....

Problem is, that first group can easily dismiss our arguments by saying you shouldn't trust the bible that well... :(

[Dark Samurai]

Im Christian Catholic... for those that still want to know...

..continue...

[DimHalo]

Im Christian Catholic... for those that still want to know...

..continue...


What other kind of Catholic is there?

[Classic Rocker]

I'm Jewish Catholic..oh and I have one friend who is Muslim Catholic..

[Ace195]

I'm not sure if I said already but I'm lutheran, I usted to attend a church called faith lutheran Until I stopped beileving in organized religion one day when politics were talked about in a surmon.. Politics have no place in a house of god :(

[DimHalo]

I'm Jewish Catholic..oh and I have one friend who is Muslim Catholic..


This is me showing my lack of knowledge. But I've never heard of those. Could you explain please?

[Kitana85]

I'm not sure if I said already but I'm lutheran, I usted to attend a church called faith lutheran Until I stopped beileving in organized religion one day when politics were talked about in a surmon.. Politics have no place in a house of god :(

right... only, when you pay attention to the scriptures, Jesus was killed for political reasons, in his discourses with Pharasees, etc, their religion vs. his never came into play... HOW you vote, DIRECTLY correlates with the religious (read moral) implications of what you experience. The paster shouldn't tell you how to vote, or believe on an issue, but politics must come up sometimes, or often a sermon is not as well preached as it should (the words of a preacher are supposed to come after hours of prayer)

[Canyarion]

This is me showing my lack of knowledge. But I've never heard of those. Could you explain please?
.... I kinda think he's just kidding. :p

And Ace, you're right, religion shouldn't interfere with politics. Jesus didn't do that, he even refused when they wanted to make him king.
of course I want to tell you that Jehovah's Witnesses are politicly neutral...

[Typhoid]

of course I want to tell you that Jehovah's Witnesses are politicly neutral...


Phew....good thing you didnt. :p


What I dont see, is whats the big deal about Gay marriage? This may not be a religious thing, but i know Bush is a religious man, by his numerous "God Bless America" quotes, and im pretty sure in the bible it says something like "No man shall lay down with another man." Now, Im not gay, so this doesnt affect me at all, I just dont see how you can descriminate against someone, when they have no control over something. But then again, im getting into another issue now.

But is gay marriage illegal in the US because of religious reasons?


And to quote that funny video Dylflon posted "Who the f*** are you to turn your views into my laws?"

[Canyarion]

Well, politics shouldn't control decide for you in these matters. Only religion can, I think.

Yes, some people are born gays. But that doesn't always mean they can't enjoy a woman.
Even if they can't, they'll have to make sacrafices to receive God's favor.

Everybody is born with its own problems. Some have a severe handicap to deal with. Others lose their parents when they are young. It's your choice to 'obey' God or not.

[Kitana85]

And to quote that funny video Dylflon posted "Who the f*** are you to turn your views into my laws?"With that I almost totally agree... Canyarian, you're just WRONG. What are you talking about Jesus never discussed politics? John 5 for starters, the law had become national law, Matthew 22:21, hate to break it to you, but he was NOT skirting the issue in the least, Even Matthew 27, and the corillating verses in the other gospels, they speak to a political assasination. Never is religion brought into the charges... remember, the Jews viewed themselves as their own nation (a case of the nation creating the state), when they say king of the jews, that is meant in a territorial manner... if Jesus is King, then the emperor is not. Etc, there are many more c:v's that can me cited...

I do agree with what Typhod quoted, in that your beliefs should make up my laws, however, they do have to come into play to some extend... why not murder, what honestly is wrong with it... why not steal (is it nothing but an uniformed version of redistribution of wealth)? most of these stigmas came from religious contexts... ESPECIALLY ADULTERY... Hey, the golden rule, even that has religous basis (actually in evey religion). Most laws are an extensions of the common morality, thus, some will come from personal beliefs, mainly because from where else will they stem??
However, in times such as this, and in general, it should be taken lightly... The amount of CHRISTIANITY in the government right now is a bit nausiating...and the same sex union ban based on the pres's religious beliefs, thats just dumb...

[Canyarion]

Jesus discussed some politics, he didn't interfere.

What does he say in Matthew 22:21? That you should obey the law, pay your taxes. He didn't try to lower the taxes or something!

And in those other cases, he had the right to change the laws of old, because he was going to give us new laws. But those 'laws' had to to with religion, not ruling the country. That was the 'job' of the Romans...

[Bond]

Please keep in mind most people are representing their own beliefs, and not really what any particular religion believes.

[GT News]

Please keep in mind most people are representing their own beliefs, and not really what any particular religion believes.

Wow you are very polite.

Chat amongst yourselves.

[Crash]

this is karpal... dont tell me damn right.

you know damn right, jew kicked my dog

[Typhoid]

So, then some religious person here, please explain to me other religions. Like Buddhist, or Shintoist, or Muslim. If your God (Christian God) is "the one" Then why are these other religions following their false God?

An another note, how do you know your God isnt a false god? How can you tell which God is the God? How can you prove God exists? How can you prove there is a heaven and a hell? How can you prove Jesus did miracles?

Because it was in a book?

Ive read many a book about things. One was about a wooden puppet becoming a real boy. Alas, it was a fable.

And please, to whomever reply's to this, dont answer my questions with questions. And dont p*ssyfoot around my questions with bull**** filler.

[Crono]

1. The Muslim God is pretty much the same as the Chrstian God.
2. Buddhism has no God.

[TheGame]

And please, to whomever reply's to this, dont answer my questions with questions. And dont p*ssyfoot around my questions with bull**** filler.

That's exactly what I'll try to do!

Typhoid... think of all the things in the world that you believe to be true, but that you didn't witness or test, for yourself. How do you know they are true?

TV?-You see false things on TV that never happend before, in movies.
Internet? Websites could easilly have false info.
Word of mouth? Could be lies.
Pictures? Can be edited and just as false as a movie.
A book?-We can leave that open up to you. :p

A good example of blind faith... your parents. How do you know they are your parents? Couldn't every shred of evidence you have be fake?

We chose to believe what we chose to believe. I mean, think about it... what IS truth? Only what we accept to be so.

[Crash]

even if there isn't a god, it gives people something to work towards... a common goal. personally i believe there is only one god, and no one religion can encompass him.

[Canyarion]

Typhoid, it will always stay a case of belief. You can't prove it.

I belief that other religions are wrong, but they are given a chance to find the true God. And God can't destroy those people when they haven't had that chance.

Oh yeah, the bible is the oldest holy book. Gotta count for something!

[Typhoid]

Possibly a stupid question here, but the Christian God is usually shown as being white. And it says "we were created in Gods image" or "God Created us in his image". So then what about Brown people, Black people, And Asians. We all look significantly different.

[Neo]

Oh yeah, the bible is the oldest holy book. Gotta count for something!

The Torah is the oldest book, the new testament is only about 2000 years old.

[Xantar]

Possibly a stupid question here, but the Christian God is usually shown as being white. And it says "we were created in Gods image" or "God Created us in his image". So then what about Brown people, Black people, And Asians. We all look significantly different.

I think that when it is said that we were created in God's image, it simply means that God has two feet, two hands with opposable thumbs, stands somewhere between five and six feet tall etc.

After all, we also all have different eye colors and hair colors, and I don't think anybody claims that God's eyes are every color all at once.

By the way, if you look at Christian art from Africa, you will see that God and Jesus are depicted as being black. Hey, why not? Jesus came from the Middle East, so he certainly wouldn't have looked like a pale white guy.

[TheGame]

Possibly a stupid question here, but the Christian God is usually shown as being white. And it says "we were created in Gods image" or "God Created us in his image". So then what about Brown people, Black people, And Asians. We all look significantly different.

You are probably refering to the picture of Jesus, which doesn't even fit his description in the bible... Truth is we don't know what God himself looks like.

Its pretty funny that you mention that though. At my church when you walk in there are 6 different big drawings of Jesus taken from all over the world put on the wall. (above where you enter the sanctuary from the lobby) Its put there to prove a point, we don't know what he looked like exactly, and it doesn't even matter.

[Canyarion]

The Torah is the oldest book, the new testament is only about 2000 years old.
Yeah, but if I'm correct, the bible was the first book that started to be written (pardon my grammar). It took a loooong time before it was finished. :)

Oh, here's what scientists think Jesus looked like (computerstuff...)
http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/jesus/photo/gallery/jesus_zoom5.jpg
Using the latest forensic and historical discoveries — and a computer — scientists have reconstructed the image of a first-century man who lived a life similar to and was around the age of Jesus.

Ok........ colour should be right. :) But I imagine him to have a nicer face. :p

And "Created in his image", I think that means our cunning and human natures... I don't think God needs 'arms' to do things. But of course that's how his book illustrates him, so that's how we picture him. ;)
And then his skin colour would probably be something in between. :D

[GameMaster]

Jesus has long, straight brown hair and blue eyes.

[Classic Rocker]

Canyarion and all religious people are gonna love my bible based rap-rock band. Just think Beastie Boys, Kid Rock, Run DMC, Rage Against the Machine, etc. Not Limp Bizkit or KoRn, no sound influence out of them.

Hmm so help me all with some stuff I should write about? Right now I'm working on a song called The Almighty's Armageddon.

[Canyarion]

P.O.D. is pretty cool, at least 'youth of the nation'. :D

Euh you could sing about.... his paradise after Armageddon? :unsure:

[hostilecrayon]

even if there isn't a god, it gives people something to work towards... a common goal. personally i believe there is only one god, and no one religion can encompass him.

Beautiful.

Personally, I'm Ecclectic Pagan. I lean mostly towards Wicca, but not entirely. I was Christian for 16 years of my life, and there were questions that it never could answer for me. I believe in the lord and the lady, who are manifestations of the one true and great being, which is beyond human comprehension.

Oh, and in the Bible, it says something about Jesus having burley feet and hair like wool. We probably looked like your typical middle easterner. I highly doubt that there was ONE white guy with blue eyes in the midst of a bunch of darker color skinned people. They also show Mary as white. You really think she was? She was just a middle eastern commoner. It's just not logical.

[Joeiss]

For people wondering about whether or not good people who don't believe in God will go to Heaven or not... Here is a great post from another forum that I want to share here:

"It is not anyone's place to judge for ourselves where someone is going. That is up to God. But Jesus said:

"I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6
"

[dropCGCF]

For people wondering about whether or not good people who don't believe in God will go to Heaven or not... Here is a great post from another forum that I want to share here:

"It is not anyone's place to judge for ourselves where someone is going. That is up to God. But Jesus said:

"I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6
"

Prove there is a God.

[Joeiss]

The Bible

[Typhoid]

The Bible



Prove the Bible wasnt written by insane and metally ill people.

Prove the Bible wasnt written entirely by men.

Prove the Bible wasnt a scare tactic to get people to follow rules so they wouldnt start an uprisal.

[CamFu]

Prove there is a God.

Prove the Bible wasnt written by insane and metally ill people.

Prove the Bible wasnt written entirely by men.

Prove the Bible wasnt a scare tactic to get people to follow rules so they wouldnt start an uprisal.

You are asking something of us, that you can't even disprove. How is this fair? Believing in something (or not) should work both ways. For example... God. No one can prove that he exists, but no one can prove that he doesn't. This is all about faith.

Here are a couple definitions about Faith:
(1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof
(2) : complete trust

So believing in God, we don't need scientific proof. We just need to believe it in our heart. The same goes for a person that doesn’t believe in God. The same goes for the bible. These men weren't crazy, they were men of God.

If people are so bent on not believing in God because there is no scientific fact that he exists, then how can you be so sure the he doesn’t exist? There is no fact saying that he doesn’t. Undecided… sure that is understandable. But saying that he doesn’t because there is no facts, you are just being a hypocrite.

[Typhoid]

You are asking something of us, that you can't even disprove. How is this fair? Believing in something (or not) should work both ways. For example... God. No one can prove that he exists, but no one can prove that he doesn't. This is all about faith.

Here are a couple definitions about Faith:
(1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof
(2) : complete trust

So believing in God, we don't need scientific proof. We just need to believe it in our heart. The same goes for a person that doesn’t believe in God. The same goes for the bible. These men weren't crazy, they were men of God.

If people are so bent on not believing in God because there is no scientific fact that he exists, then how can you be so sure the he doesn’t exist? There is no fact saying that he doesn’t. Undecided… sure that is understandable. But saying that he doesn’t because there is no facts, you are just being a hypocrite.


Please, in a recent post show me wher i said he didnt exist....especially the one you quoted. Wher in that did I say God didnt exist hmm?

[CamFu]

Please, in a recent post show me wher i said he didnt exist....especially the one you quoted. Wher in that did I say God didnt exist hmm?

As to what I quoted with you, it was refering to the bible. Not to God. I was really commenting on dropCGCF comment, I just threw your post in there also because you wanted something proven too. It went along with what I was saying.

Sorry about that misunderstanding.

[gekko]

Sorry about that misunderstanding.
You'd better be :mad:

All the way from Iraq, still talking **** :D

[Joeiss]

Prove the Bible wasnt written by insane and metally ill people.

Prove the Bible wasnt written entirely by men.

Prove the Bible wasnt a scare tactic to get people to follow rules so they wouldnt start an uprisal.

Read this quote from a bible study:
"""
The Accuracy Of Scripture is UnMatched Part I

The word of God is infallable. Every phrase, and each fact are directly revealed by The Holy Spirit

Gods word confirms this many times


1 Thessalonians 2:13-16
13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.


2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.


2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

The above verses speak for themselves, and are not subject to change.
God, is as he states able to preserve his word. This is a fact, which I will document below

The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.

and again

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Why is it so important that God preserves his word? There are several reasons. One of which, is that through them comes salvation. I will document this below

John 6:67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? 68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. 69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

and again


How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

The word of God is also the Sword of the Believer


Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

and again


Eph 6:17 - And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

We can therefore conclude that the Bible is


the word of God

Will stand forever

Will be preserved By God

Is the Living Weopon of the Believer

Is not subject to private interpretation

Is the medium through which faith in Jesus Christ, and saving from eternal damnation takes place

Finally, Jesus himself states the following of what happens to anyone who adds to his word

Re 22:18 - For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book """

[Typhoid]

You cannot prove anything about how the bible was written, who wrote it and if they were unstable BY QUOTEING THE GOD DAMN BIBLE!!!


And sorry Camfu, it didnt understand. :p

[Joeiss]

The Bible is our proof. I do not think you understand that.

[Canyarion]

Perhaps the bible in itself is proof enough for those who believe, but there are proofs outside the bible.

Didn't they recently discover that Jesus really lived? They found the tomb of his brother where it said 'XXXX, brother of Jesus'. In that time, you NEVER tell who your brother was. There was no point, unless he was a VERY special person.

Anyway, I don't need THAT proof. But a lot of things are happening that the bible predicted.

Like the prophecy of Daniel, where he actually foretold the shifts of power in like the 14th century. About how Brittain, France and Holland are big sea powers but are defeated by Spain or something.
I don't really know it by heart, but it's REALLY interesting what they wrote about our time.

Or the prophecy about Greece (a goat I think), Alexander the Great (the big horn), that died and was replaced by 3 generals (3 smaller horns in its place). That can't be coincidence IMO.

One of the most famous prophecies is the one about Babylon, the city that couldn't be taken. The bible foretold it 200 years earlier, and how!
That's like telling how the US will be defeated in 200 years, you just try it. :) And just one person gets the chance to put it into a holy book...

I believe. :D

[Typhoid]

Didn't they recently discover that Jesus really lived? They found the tomb of his brother where it said 'XXXX, brother of Jesus'. In that time, you NEVER tell who your brother was. There was no point, unless he was a VERY special person.


I never said anywhere Jesus never existed. In fact, i do believe he did. I just dont believe he performed the miricles stated.

[Canyarion]

I like the fact that you only replied to that part. My post was 5 times longer. :p

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to 'win' from you, or to convert you, I'm just pointing out interesting things. :) Things worth pondering about...

[GT News]

I like the fact that you only replied to that part. My post was 5 times longer. :p

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to 'win' from you, or to convert you, I'm just pointing out interesting things. :) Things worth pondering about...

I'm not sure if I like it.

I'm not sure if I like the fact that you only replied to that part
.
What is it like?Have you told many people that your
post was 5 times longer?Sounds delicious.:-) Where did you hear that?

[dropCGCF]

The Bible

So the bible's author is God? Wrong. According to christioans, it's "divine intervention" given to the hands of mortals through God. Don't you think some of these people could have been making this stuff up? Maybe they were high on shrooms.
The Catholic church has constantly held their beliefs, because they were "sent from god". The Catholics wanted Copernicus killed because he had the crazy idea that our universe is heliocentric. The bible is infallable? The bible was a book written by MEN. That is why it is at fault.

If God was all powerful, why would he care on spreading his word? That's like the president coming up to you and reminding you that he is such. It's illogical.

I love how you keep coming up with Biblical examples why the Bible is the word of God. I could tell you all day that I am god. I'll even write a book about it. Does that make me God? It could, just as well as the bible could be the word of god. If you believe so blindly about this, get your system checked.

The bible is symbolism. Why don't people get that? Things were written in numbers not because they were SPECIFIC countings, they were symbolic representations. The bible is not a law. Any law is subject to change. Where would we be now in America if the Constitution was not changed? The bible was a guideline for law that the framers had in mind for THAT time.

Science has consistently and thoroughly proved religion wrong. Religion is a scare tactic. I know priests. As I said before, I listened to them talking while inebriated. People need religion in their life because it makes them feel important, more than that tiny nano-molecule of pathetic existence in a vast, uncountable universe without end. If it brings comfort to you at the end of the day, wouldn't you believe it? Why do you think America doesn't show you about all the innocent kids we kill every day to protect what we have?

Religion is just something weak people ned to have so they have a reason to exist without making something out of their lives.

[Joeiss]

So the bible's author is God? Wrong. According to christioans, it's "divine intervention" given to the hands of mortals through God. Don't you think some of these people could have been making this stuff up? Maybe they were high on shrooms.

I never said God wrote the bible. I said proof of his existence is through the bible, because as you stated, the bible was written through diving intervention. Since the writers' words were inspired by God (which is what I believe) that proves to me that there is a God.


The Catholic church has constantly held their beliefs, because they were "sent from god". The Catholics wanted Copernicus killed because he had the crazy idea that our universe is heliocentric. The bible is infallable? The bible was a book written by MEN. That is why it is at fault.

The bible is a book written by MEN inspired by GOD.

If God was all powerful, why would he care on spreading his word? That's like the president coming up to you and reminding you that he is such. It's illogical.

We must believe in God's son Jesus to gain access to heaven. So are you saying that you believe there is a God? And of course He cares about us, he loves us because we are God's children.

I love how you keep coming up with Biblical examples why the Bible is the word of God. I could tell you all day that I am god. I'll even write a book about it. Does that make me God? It could, just as well as the bible could be the word of god. If you believe so blindly about this, get your system checked.

You really do not have to be so rude, man. Like seriously. You must understand that I have my beliefs, and you have yours. Understand that I believe that the Bible is God's word, written by men. That is what I believe in, so please do not act like such a dick towards me. Grow up.

The bible is symbolism. Why don't people get that? Things were written in numbers not because they were SPECIFIC countings, they were symbolic representations. The bible is not a law. Any law is subject to change. Where would we be now in America if the Constitution was not changed? The bible was a guideline for law that the framers had in mind for THAT time.

Again, you believe the bible is symbolism, and I don't. Do you know what I want to get? I want to get why people don't understand that the Bible is not symbolism.

Science has consistently and thoroughly proved religion wrong. Religion is a scare tactic. I know priests. As I said before, I listened to them talking while inebriated. People need religion in their life because it makes them feel important, more than that tiny nano-molecule of pathetic existence in a vast, uncountable universe without end. If it brings comfort to you at the end of the day, wouldn't you believe it? Why do you think America doesn't show you about all the innocent kids we kill every day to protect what we have?

Please provide me with some scientific examples that science has proven religion wrong, please. You know priests? Or do you know one priest? Or do you know all of them? Religion does not make me feel important. Actually, I am nothing compared to God. He is the all powerful, and I am his servant. But you know what? I wouldn't have it any other way.

Religion is just something weak people ned to have so they have a reason to exist without making something out of their lives.

Again, that is your opinion, but I must say it is a pretty ignorant one. I am going to university to become an accountant, and I plan to get married, have beautiful kids and a successful career. Is that not making something out of my life?

[dropCGCF]

I never said God wrote the bible. I said proof of his existence is through the bible, because as you stated, the bible was written through diving intervention. Since the writers' words were inspired by God (which is what I believe) that proves to me that there is a God.

You're still not giving me any proof of that. Men could have written it uninpired.

We must believe in God's son Jesus to gain access to heaven. So are you saying that you believe there is a God? And of course He cares about us, he loves us because we are God's children.

I don't believe Jesus was the son of god. I'm not going to Heaven? Jesus would be pretty vain if he said we needed to acknowledge him to come to his eternal party.

You really do not have to be so rude, man. Like seriously. You must understand that I have my beliefs, and you have yours. Understand that I believe that the Bible is God's word, written by men. That is what I believe in, so please do not act like such a dick towards me. Grow up.

I'm just trying to get proof for your beliefs. Believing one sacred doctrine is terrible, especcially when people hand me pamphlets telling me to convert to their twisted beliefs. What if the Bible left something out? What should the law do then?

you believe the bible is symbolism, and I don't. Do you know what I want to get? I want to get why people don't understand that the Bible is not symbolism.
How was the earth created in two different ways? Maybe it was created twice. The bible contradicts itself many times because it is reworking the original beliefs. The Bible was not written all at once, so some things must have changed in the way of law and society, no?

Please provide me with some scientific examples that science has proven religion wrong, please.

Is the earth flat? I also forgot that the universe revolves around the earth. Sorry.

Again, that is your opinion, but I must say it is a pretty ignorant one. I am going to university to become an accountant, and I plan to get married, have beautiful kids and a successful career. Is that not making something out of my life?

So you're counting money. I thought the Bible said that money and greed go hand in hand? Surely such a religious man would be eager to sell all his posessions and live day by day. Oh wait, that's not convenient. I don't see yoiu giving the money you provide a greedy ISP to a poor, starving child, do I? A man once greater than me said;
"I'd like to become a Christian, but alas I have never met one." the true believers, I would hope you agree, are actually practicing their faith rather than preaching it. It's what I do every day.

From the SKEPTIC mailing list:

First, the Christian:
How do you know your god exists?
The Bible says so.
How do you know the Bible tells the truth?
I have faith.
What if the Bible is wrong and your god doesn't exist?
That's impossible.

Now the physicist:
How do you know charge comes in discrete packets?
When you do this thing with an oil drop and an electric field, it shows the discrete nature of charge.
How do you know that?
Here's the protocol. Try it out yourself if you wish.
What if the experiment is wrong, and charge is continuous?
That would be a great discovery.

[Bond]

You're still not giving me any proof of that. Men could have written it uninpired.
That's the point. You need proof and have no faith.

I don't believe Jesus was the son of god. I'm not going to Heaven? Jesus would be pretty vain if he said we needed to acknowledge him to come to his eternal party.
Who are you to say what Jesus should or should not do?


I'm just trying to get proof for your beliefs. Believing one sacred doctrine is terrible, especcially when people hand me pamphlets telling me to convert to their twisted beliefs. What if the Bible left something out? What should the law do then?
Religion comes from tradition and scripture. You're obviously missing the first part.

How was the earth created in two different ways? Maybe it was created twice. The bible contradicts itself many times because it is reworking the original beliefs. The Bible was not written all at once, so some things must have changed in the way of law and society, no?
The creation stories aren't truth, but simple stories to explain how we came to be.

Is the earth flat? I also forgot that the universe revolves around the earth. Sorry.
LOL. You're so funny.

So you're counting money. I thought the Bible said that money and greed go hand in hand? Surely such a religious man would be eager to sell all his posessions and live day by day. Oh wait, that's not convenient. I don't see yoiu giving the money you provide a greedy ISP to a poor, starving child, do I? A man once greater than me said;
"I'd like to become a Christian, but alas I have never met one." the true believers, I would hope you agree, are actually practicing their faith rather than preaching it. It's what I do every day.
Every Christian should strive to act as Jesus did, but it is unrealistic to have everyone running around as a Jesus. Then we would be in heaven, yes?

From the SKEPTIC mailing list:

First, the Christian:
How do you know your god exists?
The Bible says so.
How do you know the Bible tells the truth?
I have faith.
What if the Bible is wrong and your god doesn't exist?
That's impossible.

Now the physicist:
How do you know charge comes in discrete packets?
When you do this thing with an oil drop and an electric field, it shows the discrete nature of charge.
How do you know that?
Here's the protocol. Try it out yourself if you wish.
What if the experiment is wrong, and charge is continuous?
That would be a great discovery.
And your point is?

[Typhoid]

Who are you to say what Jesus should or should not do?




So then your implying that Jesus wont let us into heaven if we dont believ in him? Now, do you mean believe in him in the sense as the son of God, or as a person. Because Muslims believe Jesus was real....he just wasn't the son of God.

That would be a pretty doucheriffic thing to do.

Now, why would Jesus, a person who loves all man and died for our sins, not want us to be saved eternally and go to heaven for having our own piece of mind? Im sure Jeus would condone that. Im sure Jesus would condone not being a sheep and following the herd.


But as the cake song says : "Sheep go to heaven, Goats go to hell."

Figure the meaning out for yourselves.

[DarkMaster]

Religion is just something weak people ned to have so they have a reason to exist without making something out of their lives.
Harrassing people with religious beliefs is just something weak people need to do to make them feel better about the fact that they don't believe in anything beyond that which is blatantly obvious or factual.

My question for you is; why not believe in a God? Why not have hope, or faith in something good?

[dropCGCF]

Harrassing people with religious beliefs is just something weak people need to do to make them feel better about the fact that they don't believe in anything beyond that which is blatantly obvious or factual.

My question for you is; why not believe in a God? Why not have hope, or faith in something good?
I believe in a higher power. It just doesn't control me through a book.

[Joeiss]

So you're counting money. I thought the Bible said that money and greed go hand in hand? Surely such a religious man would be eager to sell all his posessions and live day by day. Oh wait, that's not convenient. I don't see yoiu giving the money you provide a greedy ISP to a poor, starving child, do I?

You mother ****er. How dare you question my commitment to God and to helping others. If you really want to know, I help out at a local foodbank every weekend that I can get home from university. I will definitely be there this upcoming Thanksgiving weekend. I go to church, I donate to the church, and I donate money to charities that I choose. Do not ever question what I will do when I graduate university. First of all, I want to get into a not for profit business and be there accountant. And if that doesn't work out, who cares? How about I become a the CFO for a huge company? Yeah, how about I make millions of dollars? Yeah, even if I do, I will never forget who I believe in, and I will never stop helping out those who are less fortunate.

You really pissed me off with that comment man.

A man once greater than me said;
"I'd like to become a Christian, but alas I have never met one." the true believers, I would hope you agree, are actually practicing their faith rather than preaching it. It's what I do every day.

Well first of all, a Christian is one who believe that Jesus is the Son of God.

Second of all, nobody on Earth is perfect. There are many Christians who do great things in the name of God. There are many Christians who sin.

But you know what? If these people realize that they sinned, and tell that to God, they will go to heaven. Therefore, they are still Christians.

[dropCGCF]

You mother ****er. How dare you question my commitment to God and to helping others. If you really want to know, I help out at a local foodbank every weekend that I can get home from university. I will definitely be there this upcoming Thanksgiving weekend. I go to church, I donate to the church, and I donate money to charities that I choose. Do not ever question what I will do when I graduate university. First of all, I want to get into a not for profit business and be there accountant. And if that doesn't work out, who cares? How about I become a the CFO for a huge company? Yeah, how about I make millions of dollars? Yeah, even if I do, I will never forget who I believe in, and I will never stop helping out those who are less fortunate.

You really pissed me off with that comment man.


I aplologize, it was wrong of me to attack what I didn't know, I should have phrased my point differently. What I'm trying to say is, fundamentally, you're supposed to do EVERYTHING you can to help others. Not just what's comfortable. And Christianity is supposed to be about following every teaching or doing of Jesus. I know some self-professed "Christians" who do nothing of the sort. It's kind of like they use it as a veil to cover up their mistakes. Sin all during the week, go to church, get your slice of Christ, be set for another week. That kind of belief is what pisses me off.

[Joeiss]

Thanks for the apology man. I was super pissed at what you said, haha.

Anyways, I am not sure if my priest made this up or not, but one time he said:

"John didn't go to hell for what he did on Sunday. He went to hell for what he did on Monday."

[Typhoid]

Second of all, nobody on Earth is perfect.



Lets go back to 3 people. I shall name them.

1. Mother Theresa.(sp?)
2. Jesus Christ.
3. Pope John Paul(sp?) (whichever one it is now)


There are probably more, but meh.

What horrific unperfect things have these people done? :p

[Joeiss]

I meant other than Jesus, lol.

And you can sin in your thoughts too. NOBODY IS PERFECT (except for Jesus).

[Canyarion]

"John didn't go to hell for what he did on Sunday. He went to hell for what he did on Monday."
Ha I like that one.
This is how it goes so often, people go to church on sunday, but forget God the rest of the week.

And I want to explain again that the bible teaches that there are 3 things you have to do to get 'saved': belief, knowledge, actions.

People who only simply believe it, but don't act like it, are wrong. People who live a good life, but refuse to believe in God (when given the chance), are wrong too.

And the Pope isn't free of sin, far from it. :p

[CamFu]

Religion is just something weak people ned to have so they have a reason to exist without making something out of their lives.

dropCGCF, don't think I'm just picking on you here. I've quoted you a couple of times, but by no means am I trying to single you out here. This comment here is made by so many "non-believers". I think I already said this before in this post, but I'm going to say it again.

Religious people aren't weak people. They are trying to juggle two goals in their life. They have a common goal, a goal that is harder to obtain then any non Religious person has. Almost everybody in this world (religious or not) wants to be successful in one way or another. Be it rich with money, family, love, fame, worldly objects, etc... It's what ever their hearts desire. But when you do not believe in god, this is where your goals stop. We believe there is something else out there judging us. So we can't just be single minded think we have achieved everything when we get to our worldly goals. We have come to an understanding that there is more to this life then what is put in front of us. And yes, we want to spend eternity happy. Who doesn't? Doesn't matter what you think eternity is (be it an eternal sleep, or reigning with your God).

So here we are, trying to achieve a greater goodness. And people think we are weak? How so, we have to live up to so much more then what man has put before us. Even if we are rich beyond our wildest dreams, that doesn’t mean anything in the afterlife. We still have to live a Christian life to live with God. That is not weak, by any means. It’s actually more stressful because there is more on our plate then with non believers.

Now for people that stick behind that argument that God doesn’t exist because Science doesn’t prove it. What has to be understood is that God created this earth (and universe, solar system, galaxy, etc…) and with this earth certain rules apply. Over the years, man has become smarter and is now able to understand our surroundings. So what we believed that the earth was flat. God never said that in the bible (not trying to hide behind the bible, I just don’t want people saying that some Catholic in some far away time said that is what God told him, all men have flaws). But through science we learned that the earth isn’t flat. Same goes for the earth being the center of the universe. Anything that God does on this earth can be explained through science. Why, because God set these rules and he won’t break them. If he did, he wouldn’t be perfect. So all the miracles that have happened through the times, I believe that science will be able to explain why that happened. As for the big bang theory, that is all it is. Everybody wants FACTS when it comes to religion, but they are willing to take a theory from scientists. The same goes with evolution, just another scientific theory. Remember how we used to believe the Earth was flat? Those where the scholars at the time, telling us it was true. But they were proven wrong. So how can people that only believe in science be so sure that’s how civilization came to be? Through an unproven fact… a theory.

Fact, that seems to be the big word in this discussion. Everybody that doesn’t believe in God or the bible wants facts. That is good; you don’t want to be running after some street preacher because he sounds like he knows what he is talking about. Next thing you know, you will be living through his eyes and giving him all your money. Yikes! It is impossible to show you facts on the bible and God. There is no reason for me explaining why we can’t show you facts on God, you probably already know them.

This is how I look at things. If you believe in God and live a good life, that is great. If you don’t believe in God and live a good life, that is great. Just as long as you a good person (not a menace to society), I’m happy for you. I’m not going to throw my beliefs on you. I’m happy to discuss them, as long as you keep an open mind about things and I will do the same. All insults are left at the door.

Sin all during the week, go to church, get your slice of Christ, be set for another week. That kind of belief is what pisses me off.

Yep, I agree with this comment.