Return of the King - Spoiler Version

[Jonbo298]

*You have been warned:)*

The only thing from RotK that confused me was the Eagles when they came and "evened up" the battle at the gates of Mordor. They basically came out of nowhere and as far as I know, they were never talked about in the other 2 movies. I haven't read the books yet, so there is a possibility they were talked more in the books. So can anyone explain the Eagles to me? That's about the only thing in the movie that confused me.

[DarkMaster]

Gandalf befriended an Eagle in the first movie allowing him to escape from Isengard. And I do believe an Eagle came to get him after his fight him the Balrog on the summit of that mountain in the second movie (could be wrong on that one, don't quite remember).

[Jonbo298]

When I get some time, I'll rewatch the other 2 and see if I recognize the Eagle. Probably just something small I overlooked:p

[Joeiss]

That ealge dude picked up Gandalf from that big ass tower.

And ya, the eagles came out of nowhere! Lol, and those dragons could have kicked the crap out of the eagles... That was BS, IMO.

And the fact that that chick chopped the dragons head off with only like 2 or 3 chops was ridiculous, lol... And her whole "I am a woman" thing was totally like in Macbeth when Macbeth was killed by that dude (i forget his name, haha).

And yes, Legolas is a ****ing pimp.... He is so bad ass. The way he took down that elephant was phenominal. And the dead army kicks some major ass too.

Great movie. The ending could have been 20 minutes shorter, and the whole laughing scene in the bedroom was quite homosexual.

Golem is a little bitch, but his character is absolutely incredible.

[Crash]

i dug the whole movie, the only thing that bothered me was the fact they were like 10 feet from the lava, normally that'd burn them alive, oh well. they did a much better job of making the emotial aspect stand out in this movie than with the second one. the dragons were awesome, and the scene with pippen singing was done awesomely too. it's absolutely sad there is no more of these movies coming. lets bring the hobbit to the screen with peter jackson directing it.

i dont know if i liked the way all the orcs killed each other in the tower, people who didn't see the extended TWO TOWERS or read the books might be a little confused, but in the books there was always a lot of rivalry between the orcs from isengard and the ones from mordor. cool though, that in the first movie, sam didn't even have the bravery to ask the girl to dance, but when he gets home, he is trully named samwise the brave.

[Rndm_Perfection]

I believe Gandalf knows the large Eagles (Rocs, the seem to be) from "The Hobbit" when he crossed the Misty Mountains.

In The Fellowship, Gandalf communicated with a moth to hitch a ride from the Roc. In this film, the moth was shown right befor the Rocs appeared.

Rocs are very, very powerful. The Dragons that the Nazul fly are most definately menacing and have nice jaws, but they are carrying the Nazgul on their backs. It's like how I feel a wild horse would be able to beat on a horse with a guy on the back (assuming the guy is doing nothing). Also, the dragons are a little smaller, and the Rocs catch them off guard.

Err, Birds of prey are by no means pansies. The Rocs were a little bigger than the dragons, I believe... and anyone here know that birds can take out snakes?

Anywho, I agree about the woman thing. I disliked the fact that she could use a one-handed sword and lop off the dragon's head in one blow... which was AFTER she managed to dodge it's attack despite her heavy gear (shield, helm, sword, and body armor). The little feminist remark was funny too... expected...
I do, however, hold more respect for her after seeing her somehow take out the lord of all Nazgul. *sigh*


The lava thing... yeah, I find that hilarious. They went through freezing mountains but could take the lava with ease.

Oh well.

[Ginkasa]

I believe Gandalf knows the large Eagles (Rocs, the seem to be) from "The Hobbit" when he crossed the Misty Mountains.


They're not "Rocs." They're Eagles. Whatever any other fantasy author chooses to name giant birds of prey, Tolkien used "Eagles" thus your use of "Rocs" is incorrect.

Sorry, but that just kind of annoyed me...

Anyway...

Yeah, the Eagles are from The Hobbit originally. I remember there was something in The Hobbit that made the Eagles being in the battle outside Mordor pretty neat, but I can't remember what it was...


*shrugs and walks away*

[Canyarion]

Damn sweet. Just plain great.

I cried 4 times:
"DEATH! DEATH!!" from the Rohirrim,
"The Eagles are coming!!" just because that was such a great prhase in the book,
Aragorn and everybody bowing for the Hobbits. BEST SCENE!!!!!!!
Frodo and stuff leaving. Basicly the whole ending scene. :baby:

Blast this movie is great!

At first it kinda annoyed me how they changed this from the book, for example the whole Osgiliath thing (in the book it was already taken months ago and you don't hear anything about it).
But the second half of the movie made up for everything. :D

The army of the dead was cool, but I thought it was a bit over the top. They way they saved the day... oh well. :D

Legolas was great. How much damage can one person do? :cool:

The scene with Éowyn and the Witch King could have been better if you'd ask me. Why didn't they give her her original words?
-"Thou fool! No mortal man may hinder me!"
-"But no mortal man am I" and then perhaps "I'm a woman", don't remember if that's in the book...

Sam going to Rosie was GREAT! :D We were all like 'Go Sam! Go Sam!'

Haha did you see Peter Jackson??? I think I did. :cool: He's on one of the ships, a fat man with long black hair.
And when I saw his kids, I was really like 'Oh no! It's them again! :rolleyes:"


I'll stop now, or else nobody will read my long post. :p

[DarkMaster]

Can someone tell me how Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli, and the Army of the Dead got onto those ships which were suppose to be carrying enemies?

[Canyarion]

Yeah I'll tell you.... ehm you find that out when Aragorn tells it... so it´s not really detailed. They basicly scared the *peep* out of the Orc armies with their undead army and then they took their ships... I think the whole army drowned or something, I'm not sure. That's basicly it. :)

[Professor S]

Great movie. I thought the whole Eagle part needed to be explained more fully to the movie audience who were not familiar with the mythos.

A lot of people criticized the length of the end, but I thought it was fitting. This was an epic movie series that deserved an epic ending that tied all the loose strings.

So, after 3 years of waiting this entire series more than filled my expectations, but I am left depressed. Depressed because this was the end. There will be no more Lord of the Rings movies. There is no more anticipation. It is the December 26th of the movie world. I only hope someone has the brains to pay for the rights to The Hobbit.

[Ginkasa]

I only hope someone has the brains to pay for the rights to The Hobbit.


Its not that New Line and Peter Jackson aren't willing to buy the rights, its that the Tolkien Estate isn't willing to sell it. The Estate has never supported the movies. The only reason the trilogy was made was because Tolkien himself had already sold the rights to it back in the 60's or something like that.

But Peter Jackson has already said he would like to make The Hobbit and Ian McKellan has expressed interest in reprising his role as Gandalf (and of course New Line would want to make it considering the success of The Lord of the Rings).


*shrugs and walks away*

[Professor S]

The Tolkien estate doesn't own the rights, as a animated version of the Hobbit was made long ago, I think someone in Rankin/Bass owns them and is asking for some rediculous price for them. New Line needs to just pony up the dough and make the damn movie.

I read a sad article about the Tolkien's a while back. The grandson was all for the movie versions and offered to help in making them, but his own father disowned him for doing so and now the grandson will receive nothing from the estate. Sad sad tale.

[Ginkasa]

That was a TV movie though. The rights for a TV movie and theatrical movie are different I think.

Anyway, here's a link saying that its the Tolkien Estate: New Line Pursues Hobbit Rights (http://filmforce.ign.com/lotr/articles/442/442738p1.html)


*shrugs and walks away*

[DarkMaster]

Has anyone read the Similarion (sp?)? And if so, what exactly is it about? If memory serves me right, it's something like a bunch of smaller stories that take place in the first age of middle earth, or something like that anyway.

[Joeiss]

What happened to Sauron? My sister said that they cut out like a 7-minute fight scene between Gandalf and Sauron at the beginning of the movie.. is that true?

Or did he die in the second movie? Because I cannot remember that.

[Jonbo298]

What happened to Sauron? My sister said that they cut out like a 7-minute fight scene between Gandalf and Sauron at the beginning of the movie.. is that true?

Or did he die in the second movie? Because I cannot remember that.

I don't think he died. In the first hour or so of RotK, they mentioned that the Tree's had him blocked in. I just don't know why Sauron was never actually shown in RotK. Maybe the extended DVD will clear anything up.

[Canyarion]

Joe means Saruman I think. Yeah they cut out the death of Saruman. Extended Edition!! :D
Sauron became a tiny shadow without power.

I've read the Silmarillion twice. It's basicly all the big stories in the history of ME. I liked it really much. It explained the creation of everything plus the ancestors of Aragorn and some more. :) Good read.

[GameMaster]

I liked the movie, it was great.

I liked how Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimmly come out of the ship and the Orcs are all laughing and then you see all dead people "flow" out of the boat and then the Orcs are silent and scared.

Yeah, I thought it was a little too convienient how once Frodo woke up in the castle that all the Orcs start fighting allowing the opportunity to escape and move around unoticed but apparently it has a reasonable explanation, it's like a rivalry between two different groups of Orcs someone said.

One thing I don't understand is how Gollum can be so strong and be able to take on the Hobbits when they fight and stuff, I mean, isn't he like over 100 years old? And he hasn't had the Ring for a while so where is he getting this unatural strength?

And how does Gandalf become Gandalf the White? I'm kind of confused, did Gandalf die when he fell and then someone in the afterlife decided he still needed to live or something? And what is the whole deal with the white name? I mean, is it a different Gandalf because I remember when someone calls him Gandalf in the second movie he acts like he forgot his name and stuff. And how does he become white? I mean does being white make him more powerful or something? And does he just wake up more powerful or did someone/something transform him? Explain this whole thing to me please.

I guess that's it for now. Actually, I also say that I thought all the giant battle scenes were really well done and very cool to watch.

[Ginkasa]

The white wizard is the leader and most powerful of the wizards. Saruman the White was the wisest and most powerful wizard until he became evil.

When Gandalf the Grey died, he was reborn as Gandalf the White making him the leader of the wizards. He isn't a completely different person; he still has memories of everything that happened before and he still has his base personality. He was just transformed into something more than his original self.


*shrugs and walks away*

[DarkMaster]

Joe means Saruman I think. Yeah they cut out the death of Saruman. Extended Edition!! :
I don't remember him dying in the book. They just talked to him in the tower and he's just standing around in there powerless so Gandalf leaves him there because he's no longer a threat.

[Ginkasa]

I don't remember him dying in the book. They just talked to him in the tower and he's just standing around in there powerless so Gandalf leaves him there because he's no longer a threat.


In the book, they encounter him in the Shire. He takes over the Shire as "shiriff." I don't remember if the Hobbits just kick him out or kill him... I also don't remember a specific death scene though... I think I would if there was one..


*shrugs and walks away*

[thatmariolover]

Haha. You guys are funny. READ THE BOOKS! They're SO good. I personally haven't read the Silmarilion yet. My brother (Gambit if anybody remembers him), has read it.

Much earlier in Gandalf's life he befriended the Great Eagles. I believe the story was that their king or leader was injured and Gandalf saved him (little fuzzy). So the Eagle's leader was forever in his debt.

First time the debt was repaid (possible (not serious) spoiler for the Hobbit):
In the Hobbit many of the characters (including Bilbo and Gandalf) were chased up a tree by giant wolves. Somehow the trees caught fire near the bottom (I think) and the Great Eagles came and saved them.End Spoiler

Second time the Eagles helped:
In the Two Towers that butterfly (or was it a butterfly hummingbird?) came to him and Gandalf asked it to ask the Great Eagles for help). So the Eagle

Third time the Eagles helped:
In the Return of the King (to the best of my knowledge) Gandalf had sent word to the Eagles that help might be needed. Although, I don't recall them fighting off the Nazgul. But they did save Sam and Frodo.


What Happened to Saruman? Heh heh. Well, actually that's quite a long story. Almost the entire last third of The Return of the King book explains what happened to Saruman.


Kind of A SUPER SPOILER FOR RETURN OF THE KING BOOK
About 2/3 the way through the book the ring was destroyed and the Hobbits went on their way home. But upon arriving in the Shire, they find a huge guards tower blocking their way and nobody will let them in because it's night. Well, of course, after the ordeal they've been through they ignore they warning and go through anyway. But somebody has almost completely taken control of the law. Guess who? Saruman. Read the book to find out how it all turns out.

[Jonbo298]

Ill get around to reading the books sometime.....

[Jason1]

I have to give this last installment it's props, its the only one I didnt fall asleep while watching.

[GiMpY-wAnNaBe]

wow, i have the books, i just have yet to get around to reading them...i really gotta look into the whole Saruman and Shire thing....anyways, i loved the movie (aside from the fact my ass felt as if i had injected it with elephant tranquilizer). Hopefully the Hobbit's on its way as well

[Jonbo298]

Also, RotK really showed the true friendship between Frodo and Samwise. And how Merri (spelling not sure) and Pippin's friendship would survive if they weren't together.

Anyone else agree with me that Peter really showed the friendships well in RotK

[Ace195]

Haha. You guys are funny. READ THE BOOKS! They're SO good. I personally haven't read the Silmarilion yet. My brother (Gambit if anybody remembers him), has read it.

Much earlier in Gandalf's life he befriended the Great Eagles. I believe the story was that their king or leader was injured and Gandalf saved him (little fuzzy). So the Eagle's leader was forever in his debt.

First time the debt was repaid (possible (not serious) spoiler for the Hobbit):
In the Hobbit many of the characters (including Bilbo and Gandalf) were chased up a tree by giant wolves. Somehow the trees caught fire near the bottom (I think) and the Great Eagles came and saved them.End Spoiler

Second time the Eagles helped:
In the Two Towers that butterfly (or was it a butterfly hummingbird?) came to him and Gandalf asked it to ask the Great Eagles for help). So the Eagle

Third time the Eagles helped:
In the Return of the King (to the best of my knowledge) Gandalf had sent word to the Eagles that help might be needed. Although, I don't recall them fighting off the Nazgul. But they did save Sam and Frodo.


What Happened to Saruman? Heh heh. Well, actually that's quite a long story. Almost the entire last third of The Return of the King book explains what happened to Saruman.


Kind of A SUPER SPOILER FOR RETURN OF THE KING BOOK
About 2/3 the way through the book the ring was destroyed and the Hobbits went on their way home. But upon arriving in the Shire, they find a huge guards tower blocking their way and nobody will let them in because it's night. Well, of course, after the ordeal they've been through they ignore they warning and go through anyway. But somebody has almost completely taken control of the law. Guess who? Saruman. Read the book to find out how it all turns out.
Gah I have the books and now you..you...you make me read how dare you

[Dark Samurai]

Gah I have the books and now you..you...you make me read how dare you


Cmon now its not that bad a read

[Vampyr]

I finally got to watch the movie yesterday.

I think it was the worst of the three (but Im not really sure...I sprang my ankle really bad right before the movie, and it was throbbing with the pain the whole way through. It really killed the experiance.)

It may have been the worst of the three, but it was still a kick butt movie. Truly awesome. There were somethings that were at tad fuzzy on how they happened...but not too bad. Can you imagine how long the movie would have been if they had shown everything? My ankle could not have taken not moving that much longer.

There are two gripes I had about it:
Dialogue. This last installment had the worst dialogue of any of the three. It was just really crappy at some parts.

Homosexuality. This movie was FULL OF IT! And what makes it worse, Ian McKellan really IS gay. I mean, that scene where they were all laughing in that room, and frodo and merry and pippin are on the bed...that was just wrong.

Also, there were way to many of those: Golden light scenes where everyone is smiling and rejoicing. I mean...the first few were beautiful, but they started getting tiring.

[Bond]

I think it was the worst of the three (but Im not really sure...I sprang my ankle really bad right before the movie, and it was throbbing with the pain the whole way through. It really killed the experiance.)
I think you should watch it again and reconsider your position. :)

Homosexuality. This movie was FULL OF IT! And what makes it worse, Ian McKellan really IS gay. I mean, that scene where they were all laughing in that room, and frodo and merry and pippin are on the bed...that was just wrong.

That wasn't homosexuality. It was a group of men celebrating.

[Ginkasa]

Homosexuality. This movie was FULL OF IT! And what makes it worse, Ian McKellan really IS gay. I mean, that scene where they were all laughing in that room, and frodo and merry and pippin are on the bed...that was just wrong.


That was not homosexual in the least. The only reason people say that there's tons of homosexuality in this movie is because they can't take a relationship between two guys that's not the sterotypical punching-arms beer glugging that is usually imagined.

And so what if Ian McKellan is gay? It doesn't carry over to Gandalf at all. If you hadn't already known that he was gay, there would be no way for you to realize it just by watching The Lord of the Rings.


*shrugs and walks away*

[Bond]

Exactly Ginkasa.

Ian McKellen is an excellent actor regardless of his sexual preference.

[Vampyr]

That was not homosexual in the least. The only reason people say that there's tons of homosexuality in this movie is because they can't take a relationship between two guys that's not the sterotypical punching-arms beer glugging that is usually imagined.

And so what if Ian McKellan is gay? It doesn't carry over to Gandalf at all. If you hadn't already known that he was gay, there would be no way for you to realize it just by watching The Lord of the Rings.


*shrugs and walks away*

In the first two movies it didnt carry over...but it did in this movie. Or at least I think it did. And its not because Ian McKellan himself is gay, its because they made him act somewhat gay. I dont care who was playing Gandalf, he still had some scenes that hinted at homosexuality.

Sorry if I offended you guys godlike image of this movie...I just thought it was a tad gay in parts. I of course wouldnt have minded but two of my friends setting beside me laughed outloud at every part that hinted at gay innuendo.

Everyone seems to think this movie is the shiz and that there is nothing greater. Dont bash the guy who comes along and thinks it wasnt the paragon of all movies.

The main reason I thought it was slightly less than the first two was not because of the gay tendacies, but because of the DIALOGUE. It was great at most parts (Aragorn's speech, Theodin's speech, etc.) But at other parts it was rather stupid.

For example, Aragorn is explaining this big plan to attack souron at mordor to draw the gaze away from Frodo and Sam. He gives this big explanation on how they will get his attention, then Legolas says this, in his mystic elven voice "A diversion.......!" I couldnt help but say "no? really? Aragorn just told you that!"

But nothing against Legolas, I would give anything to have been the guy who played Legolas. Im not saying I could do a better job than Orlando, but he had the coolest role in the history of time. Aragorn, he had a sword. Gimili had an axe. Legolas had elven blades and a bow and arrow, and he was all surfing on elephant trunks and sliding on shields. That's just awesome. Bloom will be remembered for a long time as the coolest guy ever.
:cool:

[Happydude]

i saw it on sunday, and i loved it! great movie...although some parts were pretty dumb, like the "A diversion" part and the whole scene on the bed...other then those it was great :)

[DarkMaster]

Your right, Gandalf was gay in that bedroom scene, for he was laughing happily. Homosexual, however, he was not.

Smeagol, I suppose, would be homosexual as well then, for when he was speaking to Deagol he called him "my love". But you see, in the days of old, it was perfectly fine to love another man, even if you didn't want to have sexual relations with them. You loved them because they were a dear friend or relative. Frodo kissing Sam on the head, Gandalf laughing happily, do we see these things as being homosexual?

It's all in accordance to the society that we live and what it has tought us. That loving a person of the same gender is homosexual in any form, and we cannot express any sort of deeper feelings we may have towards those persons as we would then we labelled as a homosexual.

[Joeiss]

Oh ok, Saruman... lol... my bad. I think I might read the trilogy.... Or should I start with the Hobbit first? By the way, how many books are there that include Gandalf and Bilbo before the LOTR? And how many books are there after?

[DarkMaster]

Gandalf and Bilbo are in one book before LotR, which is The Hobbit. Maybe there are some other ones containing the history of Gandalf's life or something, I'm not sure. As for books after LotR, I may be wrong, but I don't think there are any.

[thatmariolover]

While the Hobbit is a good story to read, it's really not necessary. I would definately advise it. It's a much easier book to read than the trilogy is, and probably slightly more fun. But it doesn't tell a tale near as epic.

It kind of sets up the plot.

[Canyarion]

DEFINATELY read The Hobbit! It's a great introduction to Middle-Earth... it explains so much about the One Ring, Gandalf, Smeagol and hobbits... :D

I really want to see TRotK again.
The Eagles helped out more often than TML says: They fight in the battle of 5 armies (Elves, Dwarves, Men, Orcs, Wargs). They carry Gandalf to Lórien after his ressurection. They help out in front of the Black Gate.

Gandalf's body died and his spirit went back to the Gods in the west. They sent him back, more powerful as the White Wizard. (The movie doesn't tell that Saruman abandoned his White position by choosing 'of many colours'...)

Tacoes are waiting. :drool:

Oh yeah, gotta see all the trailers and teasers... :D

[Crash]

i just saw the movie a second time, let me say that it was even better the second time, I liked the movie way better than the second one (even though with the extended version, the second one redeemed itself much). I can slightly see the homosexual crap, but it really isn't something that stands out so much as to ruin the movie. PJ did an absolutely fabulous job of showing the friendship between sam and frodo, I loved it. Sean Astin deserves an oscar for his performance as sam.

The only complaint I have is that they made the general of the orc army a "white" orc. whether that was to thwart off any "racism" crap in the movies or whatever, I didn't like the fact he looks like the guy from goonies. Oh well, great movie anyways!

http://www.thegoonies.com/images/sloth.jpg

[DarkMaster]

The only complaint I have is that they made the general of the orc army a "white" orc. whether that was to thwart off any "racism" crap in the movies or whatever, I didn't like the fact he looks like the guy from goonies. Oh well, great movie anyways!
His face was a pinkish color, and I thought it was because it had been badly burned or something of that matter, which would also explain the severe deformity.

[Happydude]

which would also explain the severe deformity.
no...that's a birth defect :p

[Hero2]

The Movie reminded me of a good game of warcraft
they started out building up forces (note the humans and elfves are on the same team)
they start fighting, the orcs have more units because there cheaper to make
the humans have some medium units(cavlary) Then the orcs come out with the big stuff...then you get pissed off and cheat(ghost army) and then its just clean up work from there. It makes cents well at least to me it does

the end of the movie, after the ghost army, was kind of boring imo

[Jonbo298]

lol, that sounds about right Hero2 now that I think about it.

[Vampyr]

The Movie reminded me of a good game of warcraft
they started out building up forces (note the humans and elfves are on the same team)
they start fighting, the orcs have more units because there cheaper to make
the humans have some medium units(cavlary) Then the orcs come out with the big stuff...then you get pissed off and cheat(ghost army) and then its just clean up work from there. It makes cents well at least to me it does

the end of the movie, after the ghost army, was kind of boring imo

Thats so correct it's scary. :eyes:

[Danchastu 4.0]

Homosexuality. This movie was FULL OF IT! And what makes it worse, Ian McKellan really IS gay. I mean, that scene where they were all laughing in that room, and frodo and merry and pippin are on the bed...that was just wrong.

When I read the books I got a much greater sense of homosexuality. Especially between Sam and Frodo. It seemed quite toned down for the film. My friend thought Sam's marriage was just him being in denial. Oh well. To each his own.

[Vampyr]

When I read the books I got a much greater sense of homosexuality. Especially between Sam and Frodo. It seemed quite toned down for the film. My friend thought Sam's marriage was just him being in denial. Oh well. To each his own.

Lol. I havnt read the books.

But when Sam got married, I leaned over and told one of my friends "I wonder if she knows about his homosexual tendacies?"

Twas funny. I was only joking of course. The Homosexuality innuendo isnt too bad, but it kind of makes me uncomfortable sometimes.

[Seth]

Macduff killed Macbeth.


And the ending scene in the bedroom with all the hobbits...err that was kind of gay. In the books Sam is constantly groping Frodo...so that was toned down a bit. I was laughing when Gimli came into the room....looked like he had sex in his eyes. And gandalf laughing. meh.


My favorite scene was when Pippen was singing and Gondor's calvary were charging teh orcs at the river.


And, when you see the movie again,, make a note when aragorn jumps out of the boat and starts walking/running towards the orcs. I dont' know if it was in slow motion or what, but it made him look like he was strutting down a fashion runway.

[Crash]

you guys are crazy, well the part where frodo runs into the door to mount doom, he kind of "ice skates" his way right, looks kinda weird. i think aragorns speech was not nearly that powerful. the way he delivers his lines is kinda wimpy, i didnt even pay attention to what he was saying. just me, aragorn has a super gentle voice not a kingly voice like he should. oh well.

[Canyarion]

It seems that he had another speach in the trailer. :unsure:

I want to see the movie again. Soon. :D

IMO the Army of the Dead was kinda cheesy done. In the book it's not like they totally depend on it.

'For Frodo' was cool. :D

[GameMaster]

I like the part where Gandalf is riding across the vast battle field and then he hold up his staff and a mighty and brilliant white light emits from the end of it.

[DarkMaster]

My question is, why in the hell would Aragorn let the army go after the battle of Pelennor when he could have kept them for aid at the black gate?

[Canyarion]

That was the worst part IMO.
In the book, Gandalf is actually A COOL FIGHTER! :mad2:
In the movie he doesn't use any magic. http://www.thefellowship.nl/forum/images/smilies/1036945666_0.gif

[GameMaster]

My question is, why in the hell would Aragorn let the army go after the battle of Pelennor when he could have kept them for aid at the black gate?

Because they only agreed to helping fight one battle.

[Happydude]

acually the plan at the black gate was though of after he released them allready...

[Ginkasa]

My question is, why in the hell would Aragorn let the army go after the battle of Pelennor when he could have kept them for aid at the black gate?


Considering Aragorn had to actually convince the ghosts to fight in the Battle of Pelennor, there's no guarantee that they would have done what he wanted afterwards. Besides, they might have attacked him if he didn't keep his word to let them go.

Besides, it would have been cruel and unusual and ruined the "cool good guy" image Aragorn has if he betrayed the ghosts and didn't release them like he promised.


*shrugs and walks away*

[DarkMaster]

But the curse was that they would give aid in the great war until Sauron and all his forces were stricken from Middle Earth. And the plan to attack at the black gate was always a pretty inevitable battle, I mean they didn't have it planned until after the pelennor battle, but everyone always knew they would have to attack there someday before it would all end.

And the ghosts couldn't have attacked Aragorn, he's the king of Gondor and their only way to be rid of their curse (until the next generation of the king that is, but there's no guarantee there would be another, like Aragorn could die before having kid(s), or his kid(s) might not even bother with the ghosts).

[Ginkasa]

The curse was that they would come and defend Gondor when they were called, not help defeat Sauron. It was also a one time thing. They just had to make up for their past cowardice and fight in another battle.

And if they thought that they would never be free of the curse. they may attack Aragorn for betraying them. They were about to when he first asked them to join him.

And the battle at the Black Gate was not actually necessary for victory, not the way you mean anyway. If Frodo and Sam were able to get to Mount Doom and destroy the Ring without needing a distraction, it would have ended without a battle. It was not a battle that was foreseen from the beginning of the war and one that they were trying to avoid I think.


*shrugs and walks away*

[DarkMaster]

The curse was that they would come and defend Gondor when they were called, not help defeat Sauron. It was also a one time thing. They just had to make up for their past cowardice and fight in another battle.

And if they thought that they would never be free of the curse. they may attack Aragorn for betraying them. They were about to when he first asked them to join him.

And the battle at the Black Gate was not actually necessary for victory, not the way you mean anyway. If Frodo and Sam were able to get to Mount Doom and destroy the Ring without needing a distraction, it would have ended without a battle. It was not a battle that was foreseen from the beginning of the war and one that they were trying to avoid I think.


*shrugs and walks away*
The King of the Dead attacked Aragorn at first because he took him for just a regular man, but Aragorn pulled out the sword of the king and defended against his attack, therefor proving he was the King of Gondor, and right after that all the ghosts did not dare think to attack him.

Whether or not the battle at the Black Gate was forseen, it was still obvious that the war was not yet over after the fight a pelennor, and the assistance of an invincible army would indeed have been a tremendous asset in whatever future attacks they would need to take against Sauron and his army.

Aragorn called to the army to aid him against Sauron's forces, he did not specify a specific place or a specific battle in which this aid was needed, it was a general need of service against the enemies. Therefor, when the Dead King asked to be freed after the fight at pelennor saying "you gave us your word" it wasn't actually proper, as Aragorn could have kept them in service for as long as the enemy still existed and still wouldn't have broken his promise.

[Ginkasa]

The actual curse was that they would only have to fight in one battle to redeem themselves. SInce Aragorn wasn't the one to place the curse, it wasn't his right to change how they would need to be freed.

And even if they couldn't attack him, they could still refuse to fight.


*shrugs and walks away*

[Canyarion]

BTW the army isn't invincible anyway. They just made it look like that in the movie. :unsure:

[GiMpY-wAnNaBe]

BTW the army isn't invincible anyway. They just made it look like that in the movie. :unsure:
what do you mean?

[Canyarion]

I'm not too sure about it and I can't look it up now, but I'm almost sure that the army didn't have the super power they had in the movie. I mean, it's totally unrealistic!

I'll ask some experts on our Dutch Tolkien forum (www.thefellowship.nl/forum). :D