The Walking Dead: The Television Series

[Professor S]

Ok, a lot of you people are getting waaaayyyy too "Trekkie" about this show. If you look at anything closely enough, you'll see flaws. Right now the tone and plot of the show seem to be back on track, and let's be happy for that. Leave the minutia to the conventioneers...

[Typhoid]

Ok, a lot of you people are getting waaaayyyy too "Trekkie" about this show. If you look at anything closely enough, you'll see flaws.

Finally you say something that makes me want to buy you a beer. :lolz:

Fuckin' Trekkies.

[Teuthida]

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[KillerGremlin]

The hiatus was a terrible fucking decision.

By the time this show gets back on the air...there will be TV shows on that actually radiate quality. Justified...Archer....etc. That's on top of all the other shit I'm keeping up with, plus shows I'm catching up on still.

All the Darabont drama I keep reading about isn't helping either.

But in typical Walking Dead fashion (learn nothing, fuck up everything) they plan to have another hiatus next season. The fuck is going on AMC? Are you trying to out-fuck FOX in terms of being the shittiest TV Station ever?

Just don't fuck up Season 5 of Breaking Bad. After Breaking Bad is up I will probably abort AMC.

[Professor S]

I agree that the hiatus is waaaayyyy too long. There is a fine line between building anticipation and having your audience forget about you.

[Typhoid]

I agree that the hiatus is waaaayyyy too long. There is a fine line between building anticipation and having your audience forget about you.

yeah, I can't wait for Game of Thr-...aw, fuck.

[Angrist]

What about Game of Thrones?

[KillerGremlin]

The other thing that pisses me off about the hiatus is that the new episode has been leaked, and spoilers are everywhere.

Reading about the way AMC manages their shows and station, it is pretty evident that they are run by the morons who got fired from FOX. It's amazing that AMC is home of Breaking Bad and Mad Men.

I'm pretty sure the Walking Dead is pulling in more viewers than both shows, which is ironic. =/ You would think that since The Walking Dead is the station's moneymaker, they would give it first-class treatment. Instead, AMC has slashed the show's budget, and they plan to do another calculated hiatus next year. As bad as AMC is, they haven't even touched FOX.

Let's not forget FOX's accolades:

Cancelling Arrested Development, Family Guy, Futurama, Firefly, Titus

Renewing the Simpsons for Season 21313204832704871240917240812347

That number would be more coherent and accurate if I wasn't frustrated at how shitty the Simpsons have become.

The best thing to emerge from the FOX cesspool in the past few years has been Bob's Burgers. That show is a winner.

FOX can't even get sports right. Troy Aikman and Joe Buck can go fuck themselves for being the worst sports commentators ever. Bleh. Sorry for the tangential rant everyone.

[Typhoid]

What about Game of Thrones?

It's just been soo long.

[Professor S]

yeah, I can't wait for Game of Thr-...aw, fuck.

LOL! Well at least they finished a full season...

[Angrist]

Can't really blame them, can you? They worked a long time on 1 season, then they needed to find out if it was a success before they could make a next.

[Teuthida]

I don't see what the big deal is. The first season was six eps and you had to wait a year to see more. It's not like you already got used to watching 13 eps of this show a year.

Now Mad Men...that's been killing me.

[Professor S]

I don't see what the big deal is. The first season was six eps and you had to wait a year to see more. It's not like you already got used to watching 13 eps of this show a year.

Now Mad Men...that's been killing me.

Yes, but AMC only ordered 6 episodes. They then ordered a full season, but that's really beside the point. Other shows take a mid-season hiatus as well, like Supernatural, but come back much sooner. In the end, I think the term "hiatus" is what bothers me. They should just create a new model of "mini-seasons" and be done with it: 6 episodes fall, winter, spring, with a break in the summer.

[KillerGremlin]

Prof S hit the nail on the head.

The issue is also pacing....if you are going to have a "mini season," then pace the damn show! I don't know if you all forgot, but Season 2 of the Walking Dead wasn't a stellar tour de force from start to finish.

The writing is not aligned with a "mini season." Maybe they can fine tune that with new expectations for the next season.

[Bond]

Now Mad Men...that's been killing me.
Soooooo excited for that premiere.

Also, Joe Buck is atrocious.

[TheSlyMoogle]

One more day boys. One more day...

[Professor S]

One more day boys. One more day...

...until we can start bitching about the show again.

[TheSlyMoogle]

...until we can start bitching about the show again.

Eh I'm still excited. I'm giving it until the end of the season. If it still lacks I'll drop the show as one of the few shows I watch.

[BreakABone]

...until we can start bitching about the show again.

Well some of us!
Others can enjoy the show without complaining too much. :P

[Professor S]

Well some of us!
Others can enjoy the show without complaining too much. :P

I'm with you. I think they went a long way in fixing a lot of what went awry in the final few episodes. At the very least the show has always been entertaining (IMO), even if disappointing at times. My main concern over the hiatus was that it would lose momentum/audience and therefore be cancelled due to production costs.

[BreakABone]

I swear, Lori is on the top of my need to go list.

Aside from some false drama, the Rick stuff was the best stuff this episode

[Professor S]

That was the Rick I know and love...

[Typhoid]

I didn't even know it was on tonight. I lucked out by just happening to be looking at that channel right when it started.

The bar scene was intense as hell.

[Vampyr]

Solid episode. Good stuff.

[KillerGremlin]

I actually forgot this show was on. Good thing torrents...bad news AMC. I mean can you blame me? Archer and Justified, yo. The hiatus really threw off the show's groove. We'll see how viewer ratings hold up.

I like the part where Daryl called Lori "Olive Oil."

Next episode: "I'm not helping, fucking spaghetti!"

Okay, so now that we have the negatives out of the way...this was a really good episode. Another step in the right direction. The bar scene at the end was awesome.

I mean, it was a metaphor, right? Kind of like Rick was being put into Hershel's shoes for a few seconds with these new strangers who want to camp out at his place. But of course they are more sinister so he had to pop them (okay, that's cliche, but it's a good cliche). I give this episode a mother fucking A-. The show has finally broke that barrier for me.

They also ended the episode with a Clutch song. How did the guys at AMC know that Clutch is like my favorite band?

Is Rick the "regulator?"

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/2ziH7PfCmOY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I see that lantern trimmed low burning in our home.
And though I feel like crying, I swear tonight, I'll cry no more.

And how many times have I prayed
That I would get lost along the way?

Dream with the feathers of angels stuffed beneath your head.
The regulator's swinging pendulum.

Come with me and walk the longest mile.

Is his wallet leather? Is his wallet fat?
For not a year later it's got you lying on your back.
You should have closed your windows and got another dog.
You should have chained up all the doors and switched up all the locks.

And how many times have I prayed
The angels would speed me away.

Dream with the feathers of angels stuffed beneath your head.
The regulator's swinging pendulum.

Come with me and walk the longest mile.

[KillerGremlin]

Clutch also was tied into L4D2....this was brought to attention in the Walking Dead thread on Reddit. I wasn't aware of this commercial:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Wt2rGmUmm2A" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

It's nice to see the hardest working band in the 90's Grunge/Stoner Metal genre getting some props. Clutch has mad talent and they've really evolved over their career. They went from a Punk/Metal sound to a Bluesy Stoner sound, and now they have an organ. It's ridiculous. I've been a fan for a looooonnng time. They even have a beer with New Belgium. Here's their other recent single that is in the L4D2 video (along with lyrics).

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/JeVRd_bBF00" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

This is a band with kick-ass lyrics. To get the "full" Clutch experience, you really need to pay attention to the stories and off-beat humor in the lyrics. That is all folks. Sorry to thread derail, continue with Walking Dead discussion.

[Teuthida]

Yay, Rene from True Blood. Kind of wish he lasted longer. This show is starting to seem like it enjoys quickly killing characters I recognize and like from other things.

Bar scene was great. The rest...ok. Some bits were better than others.

Lori needs to die.

[Typhoid]

(I've liked Clutch for a long time. I was pumped to hear that song. I was also pumped when my local sports team and/or college used a Clutch chorus every time the home team scores.)



Okay, so now that we have the negatives out of the way


Hell, it's gotta be a good episode if you only had one negative, and the only negative was that he called her a silly insulting name because of her scrawny figure and aptitude for flailing her arms wildly and complaining.



I mean, it was a metaphor, right? Kind of like Rick was being put into Hershel's shoes for a few seconds with these new strangers who want to camp out at his place.

I never thought of it like that. Good point. I totally missed that when I was watching it.

I was into that scene because there were no zombies involved. Like, the people are the threat - the zombie apocalypse is just the setting. The whole time that scene was going on I thought "That John Leguizamo fuck looks like he's going to try start some shit."

I like how every interaction with other humans is always intense, because the humans have thoughts, and plans. The zombies have shit except for numbers, and surprise tactics.

[KillerGremlin]

I was into that scene because there were no zombies involved. Like, the people are the threat - the zombie apocalypse is just the setting. The whole time that scene was going on I thought "That John Leguizamo fuck looks like he's going to try start some shit."

I like how every interaction with other humans is always intense, because the humans have thoughts, and plans. The zombies have shit except for numbers, and surprise tactics.

THIS is what the Walking Dead is about, dude. It's not about the zombies...it's about what extent the humans will go to in order to survive. So far the show has completely missed this, and last night was a total step in the right direction.

I could give a fuck less about Zombie Sophia. I do not give a single shit. The character was not developed, and the first 7 episodes were a meandering cluster fuck of bad dialog and horrible editing. But last night, when Dale confronted Lori about Shane? Holy shit! That was intense. Or Rick going all "I'm gonna protect my clan at any extent." That's the Rick I know...not the whiny soap opera bitch we have had to deal with for the first half of this season. I really hope they keep this up.

In one episode this show hit the nail in the head in terms of what I enjoyed about the comics. If the show continues down this very dark and uneasy path....wowza. I mean, when a show has a good overall story, I don't get bored and I don't nitpick over bad dialog or inconsistencies. I'm sure a show like Breaking Bad has gaps in writing quality...but I was too busy not noticing because the show is so awesome. (I need to stop using that as a comparison though, because I'm pretty sure Breaking Bad is the best drama I've ever watched...so that show is basically the bar).

[BreakABone]

Seems like the mid-season break didn't stop its momentum at all.. if anything...

'Walking Dead' return delivers massive ratings

AMC’s midseason return of The Walking Dead broke the show’s previous records.

Walking Dead had 8.1 million viewers and 5.4 million viewers among adults 18-49. That’s the biggest series drama telecast in the adult demo in basic cable history.

http://ewinsidetv.wordpress.com/2012/02/13/walking-dead-ratings-return/

[KillerGremlin]

Well that's good, I guess Prof S won't have to worry about the show losing it's funding other than what was already cut to pay for Mad Men.

[Typhoid]

THIS is what the Walking Dead is about, dude. It's not about the zombies...it's about what extent the humans will go to in order to survive. So far the show has completely missed this, and last night was a total step in the right direction.



I thought about this as soon as I woke up (for some reason), and had a thought about the name of the show.

Is it "The Walking Dead" because it's literally referring to the 'zombies' that are trudging around - or is it a metaphor for the living people who are so untrustworthy due to human nature that they will kill each other. Making them "walking dead".

[Vampyr]

I thought about this as soon as I woke up (for some reason), and had a thought about the name of the show.

Is it "The Walking Dead" because it's literally referring to the 'zombies' that are trudging around - or is it a metaphor for the living people who are so untrustworthy due to human nature that they will kill each other. Making them "walking dead".

Not sure if just woke up, or been smoking weed.

[Typhoid]

Neither?
Both!.


It wasn't really a legit question. More of a "I thought of this early in the morning as the 'possibility' of a metaphor in the name considering the phrase 'dead man walking', and the fact that in the show 'the Walking Dead' the main foes are people who will kill other people to protect people."


While I'm more than aware the show's title is probably not actually a metaphor for people, and more of a literal thing for zombies - I still found it an enticing thought.

[Professor S]

Typh, you're actually on to something there... but that would be spoilers from the books...

[Vampyr]

Honestly it probably is a metaphor and a good observation, I was just giving you a hard time. :)

[BreakABone]

I thought about this as soon as I woke up (for some reason), and had a thought about the name of the show.

Is it "The Walking Dead" because it's literally referring to the 'zombies' that are trudging around - or is it a metaphor for the living people who are so untrustworthy due to human nature that they will kill each other. Making them "walking dead".

Its.. not much of a spoiler as Prof says, but yes in the book they come to the same conclusion.

Because, really.. ultimately.. its not about living... but how long they can live before they die.

[Professor S]

Its.. not much of a spoiler as Prof says, but yes in the book they come to the same conclusion.

Because, really.. ultimately.. its not about living... but how long they can live before they die.

Well keep in mind there is a BIG plot point that hasn't been revealed yet that isn't exactly in line with Typh's reasoning. Spoilers below:

So far in the TV series a person has been bitten to turn into a zombie, or they have been shown to have a bite mark. The assumption is that the disease is spread by physical contact. In the book it is revealed that if someone simply dies, and is not bitten, they still turn into a zombie. They are all "infected" right now, and all doomed to eventually become the monsters they are fighting even if they are never bitten. Hence, everyone on Earth is or will be the walking dead .

[KillerGremlin]

In regards to that spoiler Prof S just posted, that was one of my first thoughts when Rick shot the guys at the bar.

[TheSlyMoogle]

Well keep in mind there is a BIG plot point that hasn't been revealed yet that isn't exactly in line with Typh's reasoning. Spoilers below:

So far in the TV series a person has been bitten to turn into a zombie, or they have been shown to have a bite mark. The assumption is that the disease is spread by physical contact. In the book it is revealed that if someone simply dies, and is not bitten, they still turn into a zombie. They are all "infected" right now, and all doomed to eventually become the monsters they are fighting even if they are never bitten. Hence, everyone on Earth is or will be the walking dead .

Assuming they follow the comic.

[Vampyr]

Best episode in a looooong time.

[Typhoid]

Best episode in a looooong time.

The ending of this episode made me really, really want to watch the next episode right now.


You could just see Rick turn into Shane at the very end. I thought that was great.

[KillerGremlin]

This last episode was really good...maybe on par with last week's. I dunno. I'm really happy the show has taken a turn towards sudden darkness and quality, but what the fuck? What does that say about the first 7 episodes? What does that mean for next season, are we going to get 7 more boring episodes followed by a mid-season hiatus? This shit is confusing for me, the poor TV viewer.

Here is the other thing. Daryl and Carol are now on the brink. I'm not sure how I felt about Daryl and Carol's dialog last night...meaning I'm not sure if it was bordering on some of the cringe worthy dialog we have had to deal with in the first half of this season.

The problem is that this TV show cannot sustain and support Daryl and Rick. There is just not enough room to write two parts and maintain in this universe. It is going to be super interesting to see how that all unfolds as we move forward.

Another A- to B+ episode for me though.

Highlights: The bar, Lori's scene.

Lowlights: Literally, the low lighting. What the fuck AMC. Hire some god damn lighting people. Night scenes suffer on this show.

Meh: Daryl and Carol

[Teuthida]

Here is the other thing. Daryl and Carol are now on the brink. I'm not sure how I felt about Daryl and Carol's dialog last night...meaning I'm not sure if it was bordering on some of the cringe worthy dialog we have had to deal with in the first half of this season.

I kept expecting Daryl to break down over Sophia after all of that. Like he's actually really sad about what happened and using how hard he tried looking for her as an excuse to be angry at everything as a way to deal with it.

Either that or more would have came out of how Carol kept expecting him to hit her since that's what she was used to in these situations from her husband.

Didn't really go anywhere.

[BreakABone]

So.... I know how this sounds... but the women on this show are so worthless overall.

I mean aside from Maggie.

We have Lori, I get into accidents on empty roads.
We have Andrea... I'll shot you because I'm angry
We have Ms. Teen Suicide Now.

And then we had the kitchen exchange. >.<

[Vampyr]

The last episode was half good and half absolutely terrible.

The part with Rick, Shane, random guy was good. The half with Lori/Andrea/Maggie/Suicide girl was craptastic. I don't care about this random girl committing suicide, at all. There is someone on the writing staff for this show whose ambition is to always have at least one completely pointless and boring plot thread running at all times.

[KillerGremlin]

The comics do empower Andrea and Michonne is a badass female.

So not sure what the show's excuse for being pretty sexist and anti-women. I'm going to say bad writing, because they show laid an egg when they tried to tackle racism in Season 1.

The Rick-Shane-new guy stuff? Fucking awesome. I would give that part an A+. The dialog between Rick and Shane was so genuine too. What is different now? It was nothing like the horrible deer episode...which given the direction the show took, had no business being in this TV show. I hope the writer who wrote that deer episode gets fired from writing. There are too many loose ends, too many characters. Daryl and Carol, Andrea and Dale, Andrea and Lori now, Rick and Shane, Maggie and Glenn. Too many stories to jam into less than an hour of TV while still keeping good character development.

They could have removed the deer entirely.

What's up with the new guy though? I thought his leg was impaled by a fence? Did I miss something? That guy should be out of commission for like 3 months, there's no way you walk after that.

I give this episode an A- because the Rick and Shane stuff was so perfect I actually got wet. I can overlook the stupid suicide stuff, which was just annoying. Here is my advice for the girl who was trying to kill herself:

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa149/noemifrag/cut_veins.jpg

(Maggie seems like a candidate for a strong character. And she is sexy, so that is at least kind of empowering).

[KillerGremlin]

Oh, and what happened to T-Dog?

Women and black folks getting the shaft. I figured they could have done a spin-off comedy bit this episode. T-Dog shows up when Andrea and Lori are fighting in the kitchen, and says:

Man, these white bitches are crazy!

And then they can add a laugh track, and it would have been the perfect moment.

[Swan]

So I hate Andrea now, completely. Her opinion on how she as to choose to live just like she did is ridiculous. The only reason Andrea didn't kill herself is because of Dale constantly making sure she didn't and now she stops people from doing the same to Beth?

I have one question though, the very opening scene, with Rick and Shane talking at the crossroads I noticed that one of the roads was a newly paved, freshly painted road while the rest were old and cracking. During their conversation the new road was behind Rick while one of the old roads was behind Shane, and they had wide shots of each character clearly showing each road. I am curious as to what you think this means?

[KillerGremlin]

On the topic of the roads:

I'm pretty sure Shane is gonna die. The past few episodes have focused on Rick, and Rick has come around as the conflicted badass from the comics. The episode ended with Rick basically saying he is going to kill that kid, and that's some heavy shit. He also popped the dudes in the bar.

We haven't seen Merle and that actually really concerns me.

[TheSlyMoogle]

So since what I'm about to say has already basically been written differently in the show from the comics, I'm not sure this is really spoilerz... But whatever spoiler tags anyway.
I hate what they've done to Andrea. One of the better characters in the comic, and they've ruined her. I wasn't around for the first season of the show when you guys started this thread and I don't feel like digging back into it, but I'll take this time to say FUCK IT to the last episode of season 1. It was so god awful, and it setup this whole silly fucking Andrea thing that's going on now. "OH I WANTED TO DIE" "OH NO DON'T KILL YOURSELF!" If they hadn't added that last fucking episode none of this shit would even be going on and it's pointless anyway. I would have much preferred they just get on with the whole Andrea and Dale fall in love in the zombie apocalypse despite their age differences bullshit, instead of this shit here. FUCK!

[Typhoid]

After talking with Dylan [owns all the comics] last night about the show, it seems to be it's more of a "What if" Universe. As in "What if some of these characters acted nothing like they did in the comic." (I'd be very pleased if I never saw another "this character was better in the comic" comment. I'm sure they were, but it's not like Game of Thrones. It is not a re-creation. It is a re-imagining.)

I will back up the reason I find it so ridiculous to complain about it, which is that since the person who created the comics and the show said they are in no way connected, that should immediately break all expectations and comparisons between the two.



Anyways, the only real gripe I have with last episode was the filler with that horrible actress horribly acting out her horribly written dialogue about wanting to die. That was some of the most painful acting I've seen in my entire life.

Unless it's like some big meta-joke. All the parts with the women are boring and written horribly, and are super slow-paced loads of shit; and all the parts with the guys are super well-writte, well-acted action-packed dude-fests.

But really, though. That chicks acting was almost as bad as watching "The Situation" on The Roast of Donald Trump. It wasn't enough to make me hate the episode as a whole, the parts with Rick and Shane are tooooooooooo great.

[Teuthida]

After the first season or early in the second I gave up comparing the show to the comic. They are completely different entities. Which is good, because now I can enjoy it (as much as one can) and be surprised by everything that happens. Before I was just watching things play out in a much worse way than how they happened in the book.

[KillerGremlin]

In this case, the comparison to the comic is being made because their are strong female roles in the comic, whereas in this case the TV show has almost taken a sexist path in the portrayal of the women.

Frankly, if I was a female viewer of the show, I might feel a bit alienated.

[TheSlyMoogle]

In this case, the comparison to the comic is being made because their are strong female roles in the comic, whereas in this case the TV show has almost taken a sexist path in the portrayal of the women.

Frankly, if I was a female viewer of the show, I might feel a bit alienated.

No basically all I mean was if I was a female who had read the comics and then started watching the show, I would just say fuck it to the whole thing.

[Typhoid]

Frankly, if I was a female viewer of the show, I might feel a bit alienated.

I told this to my mother-dearest and she said [She loves the show, by the way. Never missed an episode.]:

"Not alienated at all. Look at that strong blonde chick there that got kicked out of the house for sticking to her beliefs. And the strong opinionated pregnant woman - she is you know, taking care of the household, and her own son while the guys are away. And she's trying to keep that crazy guy in check. And make sure her husband knows she's for him. All while being pregnant."


So you know.
Female perspective and all.
Don't look at the female characters as a man. Look at them as if you're a woman in a man's world.

[Angrist]

I don't see how the women are worse than most of the men in this show. They all act equally stupid.

Although I have yet to see the episodes since the winter break.

[Vampyr]

http://penny-arcade.smugmug.com/photos/i-tQbhFXr/0/L/i-tQbhFXr-X2.jpg

[Dylflon]

The zombies don't do as much moaning as you guys, that's for sure.

I probably won't keep reading this thread since it's populated by a bunch of negative nancies who expect the show to fulfill all of their expectations and preconceptions.
:p

[Vampyr]

The zombies don't do as much moaning as you guys, that's for sure.

I probably won't keep reading this thread since it's populated by a bunch of negative nancies who expect the show to fulfill all of their expectations and preconceptions.
:p

Well, I've never read the comics, so I have no expectations or preconditions, and I can still honestly say the writing on the show is really bad 90% of the time.

[Professor S]

The zombies don't do as much moaning as you guys, that's for sure.

I probably won't keep reading this thread since it's populated by a bunch of negative nancies who expect the show to fulfill all of their expectations and preconceptions.
:p

I with this forum had a "like" button. The show is a good show, which is shown by the ratings, and everyone's CONTINUED choice to keep watching even though all we do is seem to complain. If we choose to complain, that means we care about the show. The only real negative the show has right now is that it is viewed largely by internet hyper-nerds who find more pleasure in tearing it down than giving it the credit it deserves (and no, I'm not talking about us. We're kind compared to some). Yes, I've been critical, but since the end of the first half of this season I don't see a whole lot to intensely criticize.

1) No point in comparing this to the comic. As shown with last night's episode, they are not following the exact plot from the books. If you let go of the comics when watching, you'll get a lot more enjoyment.

2) These main characters are archetypes at this point. So many of them that they need to fit roles, or aspects of humanity, rather than be full fledged characters unto themselves. None of them are well fleshed out, because each one is a part of a whole.

To the feminist argument: During an apocalypse the academic ideal of what we should be disappears. We become who we are. No one is really thinking about being a role model. They are trying to survive and find any kind of comfort wherever they can so they don't go insane. If you are a mother you might retreat to your role as a provider to your husband and son. If you are a woman who lost everything, you may become attached to the "alpha male" and learn how to sharp shoot. If you are a young woman trapped on a farm you may find comfort in banging a small asian boy in a pharmacy. If anything, I think the female characters are far more nuanced than their male counterparts.

[Dylflon]

The death last night was such a bummer.

I know I just bitched at people for comparing the show to the comics but I'm sad Dale is gone because of the role he served in the group in the comics. He would basically observe the group as a whole and knew when someone was dealing with something they didn't want to talk about or felt they couldn't talk about.

Then he would go and talk to them about it and offer advice. I really liked that about his character and am sad the group won't have that in the show moving forward.

As for the feminist argument, even though I am an equal rights kind of guy, there is absolutely no way I would encourage the women of the group to spend time away from whatever area was deemed to be the safest. It's not about whether or not they can handle themselves, or being empowered or whatever. It's about maintaining the ability reproduce. In times of collapse, women are the most valuable asset if anyone has hope of keeping humanity going.

[Fox 6]

Wow spoliers.....


I will say this. I'm not bugged too much by the writing, but I find myself struggling to keep interest in the show. I Have the new episodes from the break all recorded. Just no motivation to watch them. And isn't a shows ability to attract watchers the benchmark?

[Professor S]

I will say this. I'm not bugged too much by the writing, but I find myself struggling to keep interest in the show. I Have the new episodes from the break all recorded. Just no motivation to watch them. And isn't a shows ability to attract watchers the benchmark?

If that is the case then it is better than Mad Men and Breaking Bad. The Walking Dead has the highest ratings in the history of the channel. Also, I highly recommend viewing the second half episodes. The show really turned around after Sofia got a bullet in her cute little zombie head. I'd call it a very good show. Not great, but still very good.

[Typhoid]

Not great, but still very good.


I wouldn't call it "great" when compared to an actual show which is attempting to portray real life (or a re-enactment of a real-life scenario), equally entertaining.] but it seems to me (Maybe it's just me justifying the bad acting/writing this way) like the show is written and acted like a comic book. There's a lot of one-liners in there, and visual moments that would lend well to a panel or two. A lot of under-the-breath comments you'd expect from a comic, rather than having the person just think it in their head.
It just seems to me like occasionally in all the good writing and good acting, they throw in some campy homage to comic books and the genre in general, or maybe directly to the comic itself.

But the thing is, I really don't mind it. Even if that's not at all the case - it works for me.

And (I believe it was Strangie) who said they're not supposed to be "real" characters yet, they're archtypes of human emotion/humanity. I think that became abundantly clear last episode (If it hadn't been already) with Dale.

I also loved the highly metaphorical scene of everyone contemplating killing the kid in a democratic fashion, while only Dale was the voice of reason. Everyone is okay to have the boy die, but nobody is willing to stand around and watch. So when Dale is laying there ripped open by a walker on the ground, they all gathered around to watch him be murdered (essentially), while nobody talked about if it was the right decision or not. Because when you know, you just know. Not to mention the beauty juxtaposition between them all fearing the living tied-up child. while the only person who doesn't fear him wanders off and is torn open by the real danger, while they were all contemplating murder.

[Dylflon]

Sean, I like it when you watch shows that I like. You always think about it a lot and make observations as keen as the people I know who are trained in the craft of film and film writing.

[KillerGremlin]

If that is the case then it is better than Mad Men and Breaking Bad. The Walking Dead has the highest ratings in the history of the channel. Also, I highly recommend viewing the second half episodes. The show really turned around after Sofia got a bullet in her cute little zombie head. I'd call it a very good show. Not great, but still very good.

I got into an argument with someone over The Walking Dead's viewer ratings over at /r/TheWalkingDead on reddit. The guy claimed to be a writer for the show or something. He said, "I think this show is better than Breaking Bad...something something viewer ratings."

I said, "Two and a Half Men has more viewer ratings than both these shows, so ponder that."

Viewer ratings are sometimes a sad reflection...as in the case of something like Jersey Shore. And it's all about money anyway.

[Angrist]

What's up with the new guy though? I thought his leg was impaled by a fence? Did I miss something? That guy should be out of commission for like 3 months, there's no way you walk after that. Not that I expect the show to make any sense, but that part was terrible. The guy's 10cm knee got impaled by a 5cm hooked spike. They're talking about amputating it which made sense. Then because they're in a hurry, they jerk the leg free, against the hooks? Even if a person had the strength to pull a leg free, the leg would be destroyed. You could probably cut the last pieces of flesh and the leg would fall off.
But noooo, forget about that amputation part. The guy gets an operation and the next moment he walks around again.

Talking about super human strength: since when do knives go through skulls so easily?

Aaanyway, that kid is getting scary. He encourages his dad to kill a living human. He plays around a zombie, which then kills the only guy in the group with some conscience left.

So what do you guys think will happen to the hostage? I personally think it's time to leave the farm and move on. I know it won't happen, now that Winter Is Coming, but it would be good for the show. I'm so tired of that farm and the same old whiny people.
So they should take Maggie, hit the road again and drop off the hostage hundreds of miles from the farm.

[Vampyr]

The only explanation that makes any sense to me is that the show jumped forward a month or two after that night at the bar.

It kind of makes sense as Hershel has suddenly warmed up to Glenn as well.

They didn't do a very good job communicating the time frame though.

[Angrist]

Didn't Hershel say he'd be walking again in a week?

A part of me hates it when series/movies skip so much time. Especially when they don't communicate it well. How hard is it to put in a line like "this kid has been recovering from his broken leg for a month now, we need to get rid of him"?

Oh about the kid (does he have a name btw?), when he was creeping up on the hostage, I was actually afraid he was going to kill him personally.

[Typhoid]

But noooo, forget about that amputation part. The guy gets an operation and the next moment he walks around again.


So wait.
Zombies and the living dead = "Yeah, alright."
Guy able to walk on crippled leg = "Woah woah woah, that's not realistic."

[Vampyr]

So wait.
Zombies and the living dead = "Yeah, alright."
Guy able to walk on crippled leg = "Woah woah woah, that's not realistic."

There's a difference, and it's pretty obvious.

The zombies are supposed to exist in our world, not a made up one where people have hyper healing powers.

It's the same dumb argument when people say Mass Effect has realistic graphics, and some guy comes in, "Woah woah waoh, realistic!? There's aliens!"

Obviously not the same kind of realism.

[BreakABone]

There's a difference, and it's pretty obvious.

The zombies are supposed to exist in our world, not a made up one where people have hyper healing powers.

It's the same dumb argument when people say Mass Effect has realistic graphics, and some guy comes in, "Woah woah waoh, realistic!? There's aliens!"

Obviously not the same kind of realism.

But it has wooden animation...

That aside, fairly certain there was two mentions of time jumps this week and last.

First, I believe was at the start of the last episode with Shane and Rick, and believe they mentioned a week or so has passed.

Actually, may be mistaken on this week's since seems to continue from the end of last week's. So nevermind the second one

[Vampyr]

ME animation is really terrible. Why they can't pay a third party company to make pre-rendered sex scenes is beyond me. They are so hilarious and awkward. Saps any credibility the scene may have had.

[Dylflon]

When Carl jacked that gun, I was for sure that he would keep that gun on him and a certain storyline from the comics would finally be set up to play out. You guys know what I'm talkin bout.

But then he lost the gun. But now I'm not even sure if I want that thing to happen.

[Typhoid]

It's the same dumb argument when people say Mass Effect has realistic graphics, and some guy comes in, "Woah woah waoh, realistic!? There's aliens!"


I'd say that's a little difference because graphical quality of a video game and Universal canon of a comic book-turned-TV-show are a little different things to comparatively debate. :p

I know what you're getting at with that...but you're supposed to suspend disbelief for both things...

The aliens in ME don't bother (general) you, because your disbelief is suspended considering you're a space ninja trying to save the Universe. But in Walking Dead, the zombies are your aliens, so to suddenly go "woah woah, that dude shouldn't be able to walk on that leg" seems a little nit-picky, when the Universe is full of zombie-aliens from space.

But if they said time passed, then that solved that.
Even though I'm defending the side of "it seems silly to pick on that part", I don't remember them even saying time had passed, or when they said it, or how much time was supposed to have passed. :s

Edit: Also Carl is starting to piss me off. Fucking dumb kid. I'm with Shane now. Ever since he said "stop looking for ways to get yourself killed, man." That kid is just fascinated with shotgun deer and mudzombies with guns.

"Alright guys, we've got like 10 minutes to fill for the next episode. What can we do there? Can Lori complain about something?
"No, no. She's already complained for 8 minutes."
"What about Shane? Can we get some closeups on his crazy face?"
"No...no. That's how we started and ended the other 5 episodes."
"Fuck, okay. Can we get Rick to do some down to earth monologue?"
'The guy who writes Rick is in the bathroom."
"Fuck. Just make Carl...I don't know...make him stare at a fucking zombie or something. I don't care. We need an episode."

[Angrist]

That's my second biggest complaint about the show: nothing happens. Half of the show is filler.
(If you're curious: the biggest complaint is how illogical and stupid everything/everybody is.)

[Typhoid]

That's my second biggest complaint about the show: nothing happens. Half of the show is filler.
(If you're curious: the biggest complaint is how illogical and stupid everything/everybody is.)


I wasn't really ripping on you. You're allowed to complain about the things you like. And I'm with you on the filler bit.

But I think a lot of what people today see as filler, people of 30 years ago would see as "setting the mood", and "ambiance". Michael Bay has effected too many things, and in turn a lot of people expect action all the time.

What drew me to the show to begin with was the slow pacing. It reminded me of old 'survival horror' shows. Where it was about suspense and personal thought of "Holy fuck, what's going to happen" rather than "Holy fuck, I can't believe I'm watching all of this happen."

But I even cut them slack if it is legitimate filler, just because while they're professional writers, I imagine it would be hard to write 48 minutes of white-knuckle-intensity every week. You need some plot set-up, and some character development, or mood development thrown around in there. It can't all be explosions and guts. :p


Also, as for them acting illogically during the end of the world- what is a logical way to act during the coming zombie apocalypse? :lol:

[Professor S]

I think a lot of the "filler" is intentional. In the book, there are LONG stretches of dialogue, group norming, and just life in general in this new world. These are intentional to make the instances of extreme violence even more effective.

On a side note, who thinks the Governor is coming soon?

[Swan]

I think a lot of the "filler" is intentional. In the book, there are LONG stretches of dialogue, group norming, and just life in general in this new world. These are intentional to make the instances of extreme violence even more effective.

On a side note, who thinks the Governor is coming soon?

Governor has been cast for third season already.

[Angrist]

Governor has been cast for third season already.I have no idea who that Governor guy is, but 2 episodes ago Shane saw a guy walking through a field. That guy looked like a Governor (or a Baron) to me.
But it was probably just a random walker. :p


Anyway, about 'setting the mood' etc... This whole season they've been on the farm, and what really happened? They lost a girl and found her zombified. Carl got shot and recovered. They went to town a few times and got attacked. They met part of another group. They were about to hang a guy.
And that's about it. 11 episodes built on just that. I think it's time to move on, leave the farm and make something happen. Winter is coming.

[The Germanator]

I have no idea who that Governor guy is, but 2 episodes ago Shane saw a guy walking through a field. That guy looked like a Governor (or a Baron) to me.
But it was probably just a random walker. :p


Anyway, about 'setting the mood' etc... This whole season they've been on the farm, and what really happened? They lost a girl and found her zombified. Carl got shot and recovered. They went to town a few times and got attacked. They met part of another group. They were about to hang a guy.
And that's about it. 11 episodes built on just that. I think it's time to move on, leave the farm and make something happen. Winter is coming.

I completely agree with this. Having this entire season on the farm as been a total drag. It seems like they're stuck there for whatever reason. I had hope that they would go to Nebraska, in that "Nebraska" episode, but nah..just more milling around..

Again, I like this show, but I feel like it's been put in the wrong hands. I feel like if you gave this same idea to someone who really knew how to write, pace, and hire decent actors for a serialized drama, it could have been one of the greatest shows of all time....Now it will be some slightly forgettable if entertaining show I watched.

[Vampyr]

Again, I like this show, but I feel like it's been put in the wrong hands. I feel like if you gave this same idea to someone who really knew how to write, pace, and hire decent actors for a serialized drama, it could have been one of the greatest shows of all time....Now it will be some slightly forgettable if entertaining show I watched.

Exactly how I feel. Imagine if Joss Whedon was handling this show. The characters would be so good.

One thing the show really lacks is comedy. It doesn't need much of it, but there should be some comic relief here and there, it really helps to set off the serious moments.

[Typhoid]

Clear your schedule:

Why don't they just get Michael Bay to just make the show. He'll speed the pace up for you guys who think it's too slow. He can definitely write one-liners, because The Beef had a ton of horrible ones in Transformers. So that's also got the "more jokes" covered.

I personally think the shows pacing is beautiful. Enough happens to get your heart going, and there are long enough lulls where you get just complacent enough to forget it's a zombie show (right now, anyhow), which is probably the goddamn point. :lol:

--------
I do have a question for you hyper-critiquers with some [okay, a lot] tongue-in-cheek anger thrown in there. For personal entertainment, not for actual anger. Keep that in mind.
So what that they haven't gone anywhere? "The Honeymooners" was set in one apartment for a fucking decade. Where'd they go? To the moon! That's where.

Okay, but rly - how is the value of a show's worth tied into where the fictional characters travel to within that show and how frequently they travel?

I feel almost like some of you guys are entirely missing the show because you're just like "Fuck, why cant this hurry up and get to the sweet parts I liked from the comics, goddamnit. I want the Governor. I want another City. Why cant they move! The characters were better written in the comic when I was doing their voices and pacing the words out myself, in my own brain!"

They don't know they're doing this for your entertainment. They are acting [more or less] like real people in a crisis. They're not superheroes. They're not comic book characters. They're people who are collapsing into a shell of themselves when faced with a huge mental obstruction. Would you rather live a nomadic life, traversing zombie-laden cities 24/7 - sleeping in trucks and cars until you get somewhere that isn't where you currently are? Would you expect the entire world to turn into fucking Rambo at the first sign of the apocalypse? :p

But what then? Say the writers listen and do as you all ask and get them to travel from the farm. Where do they go? Another farm full of zombies? Another building in the middle of a city full of zombies? Another government building surrounded by zombies? Maybe they can just drive on the highway scattered with zombies until they all die - like the Migrant Fleet of cars, but with zombies. But yes, okay - say they leave this farm - and get to magical point D you're all waiting for. What if that doesn't go how it did in the comics (which it wont, because nothing has if your collective complaints ring true). Where will you all be begging for them to travel to next?

Why is it so ridiculous for these imaginations of real people who are trying to hold onto humanity in the middle of an incomprehensible catastrophe stay in one spot?

Ask yourself; If you had seen countless people that you know die, and already been to many buildings covered with zombies, and the only government building you thought would save you turned out to be a lie - and then you finally get to a farm in the middle of a huge field with no (or very few) zombies - would you say "Well, this was a nice vacation, but it's time we get back to being constantly terrified of the abominations of shambling human corpses that have been re-animated to try and kill us. Let's get going gang. Women and children first. Especially my pregnant wife there. Come on, honey. Let's go run from some zombies."

The farm is safe. Why should they leave? Because the show isn't progressing? If you say the show isn't progressing, then we're definitely not watching the same show - because these characters are miles from where they started at only a year ago. Fuck, a lot of them have died. What do you want? New Scenery? Really? Really? :lol:


Edit: Now after all that I'm going to say the kicker of:

It's not that I'm against the idea of the show changing setting, I would embrace it like I've embraced everything else the creators of the show have chosen to do, unless it's give that horrible suicidal-actress more fucking lines. This thread has told me to expect someone named the Governor who is a pivotal evil character, in a separate location. So I'm aware a shift in setting is coming, and I'm not against it (or for it). I just think there are a lot of ridiculous complaints about the show, when it's clearly a great show because everyone is watching it. :p

[The Germanator]

Haha, Michael Bay? Are you serious? I've never even seen a Michael Bay movie since The Rock when I was 10 years old. I wouldn't know what you're inferring there.

I don't think it's about if they travel, it's just the fact that the farm is boring. In my opinion it's a crappy spot that the writers have dug themselves into. I want them to move somewhere so SOMETHING HAPPENS and that the show can actually get better!

You talk about "realism", but I don't watch a show to watch some terrible philosophers hemming and hawing about "what life is like now" or that "the world is not the same anymore." We know! You've told us about 50 different times in the last few episodes.

I understand what you're saying about "realism", but this isn't reality TV. This is a fictional show and it's supposed to entertain me. Is Breaking Bad always realistic? No, but is it usually entertaining? Almost always. You can't say the same for The Walking Dead. If you're enthralled by Dale's speeches or Lori's idiocy, or T-Dog's, umm...nothing, then good for you, but I'd personally rather be entertained, and Hershel's farm isn't conducive to that.

And no, it doesn't have to be fast-paced or whatever. The Wire is one of the best TV shows of all time and it's conflict is all within one basic setting and it's relatively slow-paced. If the things Rick and Shane were ever more than one-note "my way or your way" conversations, then maybe it would be better.

I understand it can't be zombies all the time and it shouldn't be, but the parts that aren't zombies shouldn't be completely uninteresting, and for the most part, they are. I guess I've just accepted the kind of crappy acting at this point, but it probably would help the show if that weren't part of it.

I have not read the comics, so none of this is coming from unrealistic expectations. I just honestly feel that it's not that great of a show about 50% of the time. It can be great at times, but that's still not a great average.

Anyway, just as you can't seem to accept why we complain about it, I'm just as shocked that you want to defend it so much.

[Angrist]

Hey, I've never read the comics either, so don't act like the comics are to blame.

In a way it's like Terra Nova (is it cancelled yet btw?). Instead of focussing on the potential (dinosaurs! survival!), they try to make it a family drama. And clearly it doesn't work. The acting is terrible, the stories are boring... it's worse than just not getting what you expect.

The Walking Dead isn't just about zombie action, we know that. I wouldn't like the show if there would be 2x as much action. It's just that the show is trying stuff that doesn't work. All the women constantly arguing about the laundry... or people trying to kill themselves...

The second-last episode proved that they CAN get drama right. The parts with Shane and Rick were awesome. Very well acted, just intense enough without getting annoying. And combined with some logical action. And guess what: it wasn't on the farm, it was in a new area.
I wish they would learn from themselves and write more scenes like that.

[Vampyr]

Clear your schedule:

Why don't they just get Michael Bay to just make the show. He'll speed the pace up for you guys who think it's too slow. He can definitely write one-liners, because The Beef had a ton of horrible ones in Transformers. So that's also got the "more jokes" covered.

I personally think the shows pacing is beautiful. Enough happens to get your heart going, and there are long enough lulls where you get just complacent enough to forget it's a zombie show (right now, anyhow), which is probably the goddamn point. :lol:

--------
I do have a question for you hyper-critiquers with some [okay, a lot] tongue-in-cheek anger thrown in there. For personal entertainment, not for actual anger. Keep that in mind.
So what that they haven't gone anywhere? "The Honeymooners" was set in one apartment for a fucking decade. Where'd they go? To the moon! That's where.

Okay, but rly - how is the value of a show's worth tied into where the fictional characters travel to within that show and how frequently they travel?

I feel almost like some of you guys are entirely missing the show because you're just like "Fuck, why cant this hurry up and get to the sweet parts I liked from the comics, goddamnit. I want the Governor. I want another City. Why cant they move! The characters were better written in the comic when I was doing their voices and pacing the words out myself, in my own brain!"

They don't know they're doing this for your entertainment. They are acting [more or less] like real people in a crisis. They're not superheroes. They're not comic book characters. They're people who are collapsing into a shell of themselves when faced with a huge mental obstruction. Would you rather live a nomadic life, traversing zombie-laden cities 24/7 - sleeping in trucks and cars until you get somewhere that isn't where you currently are? Would you expect the entire world to turn into fucking Rambo at the first sign of the apocalypse? :p

But what then? Say the writers listen and do as you all ask and get them to travel from the farm. Where do they go? Another farm full of zombies? Another building in the middle of a city full of zombies? Another government building surrounded by zombies? Maybe they can just drive on the highway scattered with zombies until they all die - like the Migrant Fleet of cars, but with zombies. But yes, okay - say they leave this farm - and get to magical point D you're all waiting for. What if that doesn't go how it did in the comics (which it wont, because nothing has if your collective complaints ring true). Where will you all be begging for them to travel to next?

Why is it so ridiculous for these imaginations of real people who are trying to hold onto humanity in the middle of an incomprehensible catastrophe stay in one spot?

Ask yourself; If you had seen countless people that you know die, and already been to many buildings covered with zombies, and the only government building you thought would save you turned out to be a lie - and then you finally get to a farm in the middle of a huge field with no (or very few) zombies - would you say "Well, this was a nice vacation, but it's time we get back to being constantly terrified of the abominations of shambling human corpses that have been re-animated to try and kill us. Let's get going gang. Women and children first. Especially my pregnant wife there. Come on, honey. Let's go run from some zombies."

The farm is safe. Why should they leave? Because the show isn't progressing? If you say the show isn't progressing, then we're definitely not watching the same show - because these characters are miles from where they started at only a year ago. Fuck, a lot of them have died. What do you want? New Scenery? Really? Really? :lol:


Edit: Now after all that I'm going to say the kicker of:

It's not that I'm against the idea of the show changing setting, I would embrace it like I've embraced everything else the creators of the show have chosen to do, unless it's give that horrible suicidal-actress more fucking lines. This thread has told me to expect someone named the Governor who is a pivotal evil character, in a separate location. So I'm aware a shift in setting is coming, and I'm not against it (or for it). I just think there are a lot of ridiculous complaints about the show, when it's clearly a great show because everyone is watching it. :p

For the 1 billionth time, I haven't even read the comic. Neither has Germanator, or Angrist.

We don't want more action, we want more interesting stuff. We want good dialogue and good character development.

The show has *some* of that. The parts with Rick and Shane over the last couple of episodes have been really good.

Pretty much every scene with Andrea has been garbage. She is such a poor character. The suicide episode made her look like a hypocrite instead of hardened and extreme, like they were going for.

Ever seen a Joss Whedon production? Probably less action than the Walking Dead, but the characters and dialogue are amazing. Nothing feels like filler.

Most of the Walking Dead feels like filler.

Is it still a good show? Sure, I enjoy it. But they had an opportunity to make something really amazing, and it's just 'OK'.

[Typhoid]

Haha, Michael Bay? Are you serious?

Not even remotely. :lol:


You talk about "realism", but I don't watch a show to watch some terrible philosophers hemming and hawing about "what life is like now" or that "the world is not the same anymore." We know! You've told us about 50 different times in the last few episodes.

I know where you're coming from. I wasn't saying dialogue-heavy is what I really want or anything like that. But...real life is pretty boring and mundane. We may not hum and haw about philosophy in our daily lives, but on a daily basis most people do a whole heap of sweet fuck all. I imagine if zombies were around in the real world, all regular people would do is find a place to get safe with a group of likeminded people, so they can sit around and do a whole heap of sweet fuck all in safety.


Anyway, just as you can't seem to accept why we complain about it, I'm just as shocked that you want to defend it so much.

The reason I can't seem to accept it is because there are far more complaints than positives for the majority of you, or at least close to 50/50. I'm also including other sites into that. I just see so much negativity towards the show, and very little positive feedback (aside from ratings). It's almost like I can never talk about what I like in the show, because someone somewhere (Again, I don't really mean this forum) will tell me why that scene sucked to them, or why it was better in the comic, or how they could have done it better. (I'm aware I'm just doing the opposite of that, haha). I always feel the need to defend the little guy, that's why I'm usually in the minority of all discussions. I may not always completely agree with whatever I'm defending, but I think everything at least deserves a fair look from every perspective, you know.

And in a thread full of (or containing) people talking about things they don't like about the show after every episode, I feel the equal need to express how I find very little flaw with it, and why - maybe that will allow other people to enjoy the show as much as I do, without thinking about it with negativity. Without looking down on it with a "Fuck, this had so much potential", and instead just enjoy the ride. To think about what may come, rather than what could have been. It just seems like so many people [outside of this thread, too - I mean] expected this to be so many things it wasn't to them. Maybe it's because I'd never heard about The Walking Dead until a week before the first TV episode aired, so I entered in entirely ignorant to everything, hadn't talked about it with anyone (Comics? Puffaw) , didn't know what to expect from anything in any way (and still really don't). And I personally love the fact that the show is slathered in metaphors, for now.

Now, of course there are things I don't like with the show. Most of it stems from horrible camera cuts, bad child acting, and that horrible suicidal chick who should have killed herself so she wouldnt ever get more lines. (I feel so bad for her that that scene will be on her acting reel. I legitimately felt embarrassed for that actress) And when I dislike something with the show, I definitely do mention it. I just really do dislike very little with the show, and it pains me that others find such subjective flaws with something I subjectively find so little in.


Edit: Oh, so thats what it looks like when I say the same thing in 4 giant paragraphs.

[Dylflon]

Without spoiling anything, the next location they end up staying in comic timeline-wise, they stay there for a long time. Out of everything created so far in the comics, I think one third of the comics is set in one location.

I'm with Sean. People would crave stability and safety over everything else. I'm sure the season will end with the farm no longer being a viable place to stay.

The first season felt like it was about reaction and a building sense of hope that they could get to the safe place, or find the guy who had the cure.

This season is about accepting that there is no going back. There's no Fort Benning where they'll be safe and protected. There's no scientists at the CDC who can make it all better. This whole season to me has been about the death of hope and coming to terms with the world as it is now, and figuring out how to behave in it.

You can't tell that story when it's a story about getting from point A to point B. Where the heck would they even go? To me the story they're telling right now is more interesting than just trying to get to the next objective.

If the show feels directionless, that might be a reflection of how the characters are feeling.


Edit: Also, I'm surprised. I feel I'm generally more critical of tv and films than most of you since I frequently bitch about bad acting/pacing/storytelling but for whatever reason I don't seem to have the same complaints everyone else does. I suppose that it's just that what I like is vastly different from what normal people like. I never have much to bitch about when I watch this show. Even my fiance was bored when the pace slowed down, but I've always been really happy with the show.

[Vampyr]

I don't think the farm is the problem, people just perceive the static location as a cause for the stagnant plot.

It isn't. Going back to a Joss Whedon example, the first 3 seasons of Buffy took place in mostly the same locations, primarily the library at the high school. That one room housed so many scenes from each episode, and it never felt dull. They kept finding new camera angles to use, and the dialogue was always perfect.

Leaving the farm and taking the show on the road wouldn't fix anything.

[BreakABone]

Damn fine episode.

[Vampyr]

Yep, best episode so far, I think.

Unfortunately the average acting ability of the show dropped several standard deviations.

[Professor S]

Vamp, I thought the same thing last night. I'm not a fan of Lincoln's portrayal as Rick. He's kind of like a pensive mannequin. Very one note so far, but Shane being his foil has really helped make him more interesting. Looking at the previews for the following week, though, hopefully the character breaks out a bit.

I'm getting the feeling the show is going to kill off a few more people next week. I see most of Hershel's family, including Hershel, biting it with Maggie being he sole survivor (saved by Glen). What's interesting is that this will leave the group relatively weak against the Governor next season unless they pick up some new characters. I'd rather they develop whoever remains, though.

One day I'd love to hear an explanation of why certain aspects of the show were changed. Example: In the book Carl kills Shane to save his father, and that is a pretty big moment in his life that you could say defines his character and sets a huge expectation for the new world everyone lives in. Having Rickkill Shane must have been a conscious decision, and I'm curious as to why they make their choices. I'm not complaining, I'd just like to know.

Also, I'm surprised no one mentioned this yet: How does zombie Randall, with a broken neck, walk or chase characters? If the disease affects the brain, and the spinal chord is severed, wouldn't the zombie be just as paralyzed as the human who died? That's my trivial complaint for the week. ;)

[Dylflon]

Lori should just stop talking. Always causing fights. She convinces Rick that Shane is crazy (rightfully so I guess) and the result is them trying to kill each other.

Lori gives Shane a big talk this episode which reveals her ambiguous feelings about him. The result is that Shane thinks that maybe he could have Lori if Rick was gone. Then we know what happens after.

She's definitely a shit disturber.

[BreakABone]

Lori should just stop talking. Always causing fights. She convinces Rick that Shane is crazy (rightfully so I guess) and the result is them trying to kill each other.

Lori gives Shane a big talk this episode which reveals her ambiguous feelings about him. The result is that Shane thinks that maybe he could have Lori if Rick was gone. Then we know what happens after.

She's definitely a shit disturber.

Hahah

I thought I was the only one who felt that.
Like she was playing both sides, but realized both can't live in harmony.

[Angrist]

Good episode. :) Finally some action.

[Professor S]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ntI-n2Hd-sI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Typhoid]

Lori should just stop talking. Always causing fights. She convinces Rick that Shane is crazy (rightfully so I guess) and the result is them trying to kill each other.

Lori gives Shane a big talk this episode which reveals her ambiguous feelings about him. The result is that Shane thinks that maybe he could have Lori if Rick was gone. Then we know what happens after.

She's definitely a shit disturber.



Women.
Wait.
Pregnant women.
Am I right.
Up top.
Right here.
Maybe she's crazy, doesn't know who's baby it is - and wants the protector of her and the child to be the strongest of the two, thusly pitting them against eachother in some type of Darwinian battle. She loves them both and she can't decide, being a pregnant hormonal women (lol), so she figures in her crazy-ladymind that it will sort itself out, and the strongest of the two will 'win' her. Sort of like Gorillas!



I thought it was a pretty solid episode. I didn't expect Shane to die. I actually thought Rick was going to take a bullet. I was expecting them to take the most unexpected route. I don't mind Rick as an actor most of the time (not that I minded Shane), but I'm not complaining.
I also was thinking of Rick's voice being sort of shitty, line delivery and all aswell - but thinking on it now, I'm just chalking it up to the fact he thought he was going to get shot by his insane best friend who was going to steal his son and fuck his wife. So now, I'll go with "good acting", and not "actor with a chest cold". But I mean, clearly sometimes you can tell he's trying to ham it up when he's giving his monologues - like in season 1 when he'd radio to [black guy and son], or last episode when he was talking to Carl about 'growing up'. It's like they're directing him to try read them like they are a line in a comic book, and gave him Christian Bale Batman tapes to study for accents.


Example: In the book Carl kills Shane to save his father, and that is a pretty big moment in his life that you could say defines his character and sets a huge expectation for the new world everyone lives in. Having Rickkill Shane must have been a conscious decision, and I'm curious as to why they make their choices. I'm not complaining, I'd just like to know.

Well, Carl does shoot zombie-Shane who is about to eat his dad's brains from behind. So he does still save his dad's life, just not in the same way.

[KillerGremlin]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ntI-n2Hd-sI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

This is hilarious. I thought this scene was kind of terrible in actual context, but this is awesome.

[KillerGremlin]

Vamp, I thought the same thing last night. I'm not a fan of Lincoln's portrayal as Rick. He's kind of like a pensive mannequin. Very one note so far, but Shane being his foil has really helped make him more interesting. Looking at the previews for the following week, though, hopefully the character breaks out a bit.

I'm getting the feeling the show is going to kill off a few more people next week. I see most of Hershel's family, including Hershel, biting it with Maggie being he sole survivor (saved by Glen). What's interesting is that this will leave the group relatively weak against the Governor next season unless they pick up some new characters. I'd rather they develop whoever remains, though.

One day I'd love to hear an explanation of why certain aspects of the show were changed. Example: In the book Carl kills Shane to save his father, and that is a pretty big moment in his life that you could say defines his character and sets a huge expectation for the new world everyone lives in. Having Rickkill Shane must have been a conscious decision, and I'm curious as to why they make their choices. I'm not complaining, I'd just like to know.

Network censorship maybe?

I can't stand the kid. I think they really dropped the casting ball with that one. What we need are either more kids...or less kids.

For me, this week's episode was like a step back. I don't know. This entire Season has lacked any serious zombie threat...and this episode they suddenly start boarding up the house. I mean, shouldn't that have been episode 2? Maybe instead of fixing the well they could have boarded up the house. I get it: Hershel wasn't planning on letting them live there. But in the case of an emergency zombie outbreak, wouldn't having a fortified house make sense?

Okay, so I'm back to nitpicking about bad writing. I'll stop. Lori is truly annoying...I can't stand Andrea....Rick is annoying...the kid can't act...

There were like random extras on set today. That's happened a few times. Of course the black guy is helping move all the shit, and "no you aren't sleeping on the couch." "Okay, masta sir!"

Honestly? I'm rooting for Glenn, Maggie, and Daryl. Seeing Daryl and Glenn work together was the highlight of the episode for me. So far, this show has failed miserably at the drama. I also feel like the farm stuff has been fairly meh. The past few episodes have been very interesting....because we are getting new scenery, new characters, and not focusing on this group's tired ass drama.

This was like a solid B episode for me. I feel like Rick and Carl are still both way underdeveloped. Carl didn't kill Shane. If you think about it...Rick didn't really kill Shane. I mean he waited til the last second, and begrudgingly busted out a knife. Is this the same badass who is going to keep shit together down the road?

I predict they abandon the farm next episode and find the prison. If Meryl is the Governor I will be sad.

[Angrist]

Oh yeah I was wondering about something... Rick and Shane walk miles through the forest to the spot where Shane wants to kill Rick. And suddenly - tadaa!! - there's the kid watching them. ò_Ô What the heck is he doing there!!?! Or did Shane lead them back to the farm and did he want to shoot Rick within hearing distance of everybody else??

[KillerGremlin]

Oh yeah I was wondering about something... Rick and Shane walk miles through the forest to the spot where Shane wants to kill Rick. And suddenly - tadaa!! - there's the kid watching them. ò_Ô What the heck is he doing there!!?! Or did Shane lead them back to the farm and did he want to shoot Rick within hearing distance of everybody else??

The camera cut to Carl (the kid) standing in the window, looking out. When they did that camera shot, I immediately asked myself, "I wonder if Carl is leaving the house." And I guess he did....how Carl found them I have no idea.

It seemed like Rick and Shane were fairly close to the house when all the drama went down. But it seemed like they were walking for miles. What amazes me is that they went out walking in the dark, like wtf. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Neo]

The gun went off when he got stabbed. Carl heard it and came looking.

[Typhoid]

This entire Season has lacked any serious zombie threat...and this episode they suddenly start boarding up the house. I mean, shouldn't that have been episode 2? Maybe instead of fixing the well they could have boarded up the house. I get it: Hershel wasn't planning on letting them live there. But in the case of an emergency zombie outbreak, wouldn't having a fortified house make sense?

Okay, so I'm back to nitpicking about bad writing.


Not to constantly be the defendant; but -

I get it: Hershel wasn't planning on letting them live there. But in the case of an emergency zombie outbreak, wouldn't having a fortified house make sense?

Then no, you do not get it. Hershel wasn't aware of "the outside". He thought they were curable, he didn't know they would come to his house, and attempt to slaughter him. That is the only reason he had them in the barn. That is why he didn't have his house boarded up.
That God-fearing man had no reason in his mind to board up his house to protect himself of the Walking Dead. That's why it already wasn't protected. Come on man, you're watching the show. It's like you're purposely forgetting things they spend ample time discussing in previous episodes because you're looking for something to complain about.

Of course the black guy is helping move all the shit, and "no you aren't sleeping on the couch." "Okay, masta sir!"

Why do you go and have to be racist like that. A white guy isn't allowed to tell a black guy that the couch he owns is taken, without someone who's (hopefully jokingly) looking for things to pick apart saying "lol 21st century, black man doing work for a white guy and being told what to do", where as I refute with "lol 21st century, he's allowed to help and be part of the group like any human being, and be told not to go places like every other normal person. That is equality."
When I see a writer doing things like that in a show with a black person I think "Good for you. You're not afraid of writing honestly. You're not going to walk on eggshells and not write a black actor into normal roles because you're afraid someone will make some bullshit slavery connection for no fucking reason."

Man, I don't get why people watch a show if all everyone ever says about it is always negative. In 2 seasons I've only seen/recalled maybe 5 positive posts that were not from me. and I don't mean posts that are filled with hate on the last episode, and sprinkled with a positive "but".

Here is my summary of the majority of people who watch this show commenting after every episode:

"I don't get the show. I don't like the direction they're taking _______. The acting is bad, I don't feel invested in any characters. And how did _____ get ____ without _____ knowing/thinking/seeing _____? That doesn't make sense. Why did they cast ____ as ______ anyways? He/she can't act ______ as well as I hoped that character would be acted. I'm so ________ that they're still _________. _______ is such a ______, fuck. Why can't _______ ________ _______. The worst scene of last episode was when _______ and ______ were _______ by the _______ with _____. Like _____, why can't ______ just _____. That would make _____ so much _______. Every week I watch this show my life gets significantly worse. The 48 minutes I spend every Sunday watching this glorified pile of vomit are worth it though, for the 5 minutes that I think are cool, so it's okay. I like the show, that's why I watch it."

[KillerGremlin]

Why do you go and have to be racist like that. A white guy isn't allowed to tell a black guy that the couch he owns is taken, without someone who's (hopefully jokingly) looking for things to pick apart saying "lol 21st century, black man doing work for a white guy and being told what to do", where as I refute with "lol 21st century, he's allowed to help and be part of the group like any human being, and be told not to go places like every other normal person. That is equality."

I would say you are being pedantic, but even you expressed some doubt that my comment was completely serious when you said: "someone who's (hopefully jokingly) looking for things to pick apart." That would be correct...I made that comment as a joke.

But if my comment was a joke, then where does the humor come from?

And this is where I can say you have ignored context. So far T-Dog has been nothing but a throwaway character. His existence in the series is seriously questionable, especially since his character does not exist in the comic. Add in the fact that he has very few speaking lines, no subplots, and he has a stereotypically racist name "T-Dog".....it isn't a huge leap to suggest that he is the "token black guy." And that TV TROPE does exist:

It's the "Token Minority" trope.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TokenMinority
Token Minority is a character designed to get more minority groups into the plot.

And oh, guess what? On the Token Minority trope page, T-Dog is actually cited as an example of the trope!

Played painfully straight in The Walking Dead with T-Dog, who is the only major character in the series not to have any sub-plots and little dialog. Extremely apparent in Season 2 episode "Judge, Jury, Executioner" in which the group deliberates whether or not to kill Randall, the episode focuses on the opinions of every member of the group except T-Dog whose one line of dialog is cut off by Dale.

So to answer the question, "where does the humor come from when KillerGremlin makes a joke about T-Dog." The answer is that it comes from the applied context, that has already been established by anyone watching the show. Which is that T-Dog is as useless of a character as useless characters come.

So when T-Dog is featured in a scene moving shit, it is hilarious for me to make jokes like, "Yes, masta sir." Because my joke is blatantly racist, which is a nice commentary to attach to some of the implied criticisms of T-Dog's character.

So I have to strongly disagree with your observation:

When I see a writer doing things like that in a show with a black person I think "Good for you. You're not afraid of writing honestly. You're not going to walk on eggshells and not write a black actor into normal roles because you're afraid someone will make some bullshit slavery connection for no fucking reason."

Edit: Amazingly, the Walking Dead writers were able to develop a NON token minority black guy in episode 1 of the TV show. This guy is a perfect example of a developed character:

http://walkingdead.wikia.com/wiki/Morgan_Jones_%28TV_Series%29

I would love to see a follow up with what happened to him, no? I would be okay with a 10 minute flashback at the start of an episode, before cutting back to current events.

[Angrist]

Yeah I really thought they'd take that storyline with the negro father and son somewhere. (Am I allowed to say negro these days? I'm so confused about what's considered racist and not in the States...)

What I also liked about the first episodes is that the zombies still had some personality left. The wife still knew where she lived. The zombie girl still walked around with her bunny doll.
I guess the writers ran out of ideas after that, because I never have got the same feeling again after that.

[Vampyr]

Negro is not usually an acceptable term, it's something you only hear really old people say, and then everyone kind of stands there being uncomfortable.

It's kind of absurd what's considered racist and what isn't. For some reason "black" is not racist. Neither is "African-American", even though a lot of dark skinned people are not of African decent.

[Angrist]

I thought for sure "black" would be racist. It's not realy black is it? More like brown... in all kind of shades.
I'm pretty sure that in a while "African-American" will also be considered racist.

[Professor S]

I thought for sure "black" would be racist. It's not realy black is it? More like brown... in all kind of shades.
I'm pretty sure that in a while "African-American" will also be considered racist.

Well, I'm "white" but I'm actually more of a pinkish tan...

We think about this stuff way too hard.

[Dylflon]

Posted by Steven Yuen (actor who plays Glenn) on his Reddit AMA (ask me anything) thread:

I think it's great that you hate Lori. When I hear something like that I smile and think about what an amazing job Sarah Wayne Callies has done and also how fearless the writing is with her character.

What I find interesting about TV and the audience reaction sometimes is that everyone tends to want each character to be likable or consistent. Even with villians, if they are consistent, they kind of like them. Then, when a villian displays some sort of warmth, they go bonkers because they love the idea of a villian with a heart of gold.

But how come it's harder to swallow when it's a good person that isn't consistently good?

I remember reading the comic and HATING Lori. I hated her because she was bipolar; irrational in one moment but then suddenly rational the next. Loving one moment, and scornful the next. But then I realized as I took a step back and looked at the whole that her character is completely necessary and makes for interesting drama.

They are in a zombie apocalypse. They are going to be inconsistent. People are going to mess up. People are going to be irrational. People are going to be selfish. People are also going to be good.

[KillerGremlin]

Negro is not usually an acceptable term, it's something you only hear really old people say, and then everyone kind of stands there being uncomfortable.

It's kind of absurd what's considered racist and what isn't. For some reason "black" is not racist. Neither is "African-American", even though a lot of dark skinned people are not of African decent.

I feel pretty confident saying that the PC term these days is "black." I do see African American used in some literature still, especially with respect to census stuff, statistics, medical stuff, and sociology/psychology. But yeah.

Angrist, if you do come to the States...don't say "Negro." I mean, you might get away with it, it just depends if you are (a) sexy, (b) have a sexy accent.

[Angrist]

[Dutch accent]I'll try to remember it.[/Dutch accent]

[BlueFire]

I very much enjoy this show. Great season. I was surprised to see how many of you guys have a problem with the writing or the acting. /shrug

[Angrist]

PAGAN! BURN HIM!!

[BreakABone]

Well that was the season finale...

And now shall curl up in a corner until it returns...

Oh Game of Thrones is back in 2 weeks.. hmm

[BlueFire]

Michonne! :)

[Vampyr]

Pretty fantastic episode. I loved Rick's speech at the end. He's taken so much crap and put up with so much belly aching from all those people over the last two seasons.


EDIT:

My prediction for the second half of season 3: Daryl and Michonne are going to get together, then Merle is going to show up.

[Neo]

I feel pretty confident saying that the PC term these days is "black." I do see African American used in some literature still, especially with respect to census stuff, statistics, medical stuff, and sociology/psychology. But yeah.

Angrist, if you do come to the States...don't say "Negro." I mean, you might get away with it, it just depends if you are (a) sexy, (b) have a sexy accent.

Oh! I have a negro friend! Maybe he knows your negro friend?

[Neo]

Pretty fantastic episode. I loved Rick's speech at the end. He's taken so much crap and put up with so much belly aching from all those people over the last two seasons.


EDIT:

My prediction for the second half of season 3: Daryl and Michonne are going to get together, then Merle is going to show up.

It's a good thing Lori convinced their negro friend to turn the truck around. My, what a mess that would have been had they kept on like that!

[Angrist]

Intresting episode. Like somebody else here (forgot who), I also expected lots of people to die. It looks like they got rid of all the boring characters (did they even have names?).

That chick with the sword and the zombie slaves is interesting (anyone who thought last episode was racist probably exploded this episode). Is it the one you sometimes talk about, a girl with a sword?

So we've seen another proof that they haven't read the Zombie Survival Guide. Why did they stay and fight that horde at the farm?? It was so incredibly pointless. Killing 100 zombies isn't going to make any difference, they should have known that. They should have packed the car with travel gear and just hit the road as soon as possible. Actually, those cars should already have been packed beforehand.

One last remark:
"Oh no, we ran out of fuel. We're in the middle of nowhere, with just forest around us! Nowhere to camp!!"
- "Hey would this tiny fort do?"

One last question: was that a prison at the end? Is that the setting for your beloved Governor episodes?

[Typhoid]

I thought it was a pretty solid episode, too.
I like how it started right from the beginning, there was no sauntering back to the farm, it was just "Well son, I'm sorry to tell you that I ki- we've got to haul ass away from these zombies"

The only thing that got me as "meh" was when Herschel's daughter got taken by a zombie. It was easy to tell it was coming considering they were only looking left, and the camera was tighter on the right side; so I was all immediately "Oh, fuck. Well there's obviously an extra or two standing there or else they would have probably centred the shot, or at least have her look right."


I thought Herschel was going to get eaten. I'm pumped he didn't. If he does in the future, he does. I like the person of the character, and I think the actor plays him well. He feels like a real guy attempting to struggle with the world in a real way. For as much as he said he'd die on his farm (He very well might), and how he'd never leave - he wound up running like all the rest. Self-preservation.

I like how they all panicked and fled at some point. Fight or flight, but in the end flight took over for all of them. I like that; human evolution was based on flight. We don't survive by being the best hunter, we survive by being the smartest at living.

[Vampyr]

Hershel is probably my favorite character on the show right now, to be honest.

He's had the best character development and is a good actor. He also seems to be the most complex character on there.

[Angrist]

Oh yeah, what was the deal with that helicopter in the opening??!?! Somebody luring Zombies to key locations?

[Typhoid]

Oh yeah, what was the deal with that helicopter in the opening??!?! Somebody luring Zombies to key locations?

I think that wwas a Helicopter from season 1. Just showing a condensed version of what the zombies were up to and how they got to the farm.

That Helicopter passed by at some point in season 1. So it all adds up. No holes.

[Angrist]

Yeah that's what I figured later, just a random chopper that explained why the walkers would suddenly start migrating like that.

[KillerGremlin]

It would have been funny if the Zombies went to a volcano and tossed a ring into it....

I'm pretty sure there was a helicopter that passed by in this season, no? But it must just be a coincidental helicopter used to explain how the herd of zombies got from the city to the farm.

Lori is such a cuuuuuuunt. I can't wait til she dies.

Anyway....this episode! This is the Rick I want to see! Not some soap opera shit. The Rick that is like, "listen up you bitches! I'm in charge, and if you don't like it, you can suck my Australian nutsack."

Also, those zombies really love snacking on extras. Who knew the characters we didn't see at all in Season 2 would end up being delicious zombie snacks. Yum....zombie snacks.

[KillerGremlin]

Actually, I'll make a bold criticism, and you can all shit down my throat for being too judgmental or whatever:

This was the first episode since Season 1 Episode 1 that made me feel like I was watching a comic book show.

For some reason...this show had a comic book feel. Maybe it was the "blams" and all the headshots and exploding zombie heads. Maybe it was Michonne. Maybe it was the shot of the prison that made me think...."ahhhh, tv potential."

I don't know. But this episode struck a 'comic chord' for me.

[Professor S]

Actually, I'll make a bold criticism, and you can all shit down my throat for being too judgmental or whatever:

This was the first episode since Season 1 Episode 1 that made me feel like I was watching a comic book show.

For some reason...this show had a comic book feel. Maybe it was the "blams" and all the headshots and exploding zombie heads. Maybe it was Michonne. Maybe it was the shot of the prison that made me think...."ahhhh, tv potential."

I don't know. But this episode struck a 'comic chord' for me.

Robert Kirkman was a writer on this episode, and I saw a definite difference in pace and tone. Also, he is writing a lot of season 3. Makes me happy. :D

[Angrist]

So who's he again?

[Dylflon]

Yeah, the basic idea behind zombie hordes (gets talked about in the comics) is that one zombie will notice something or hear a noise and start walking towards it. Other zombies see a zombie moving with purpose and will begin following it, under the assumption that the zombie knows where something devourable is. Then more zombies see a group of zombies and want in on whatever action that group involved in. By this point the original zombie has forgotten what had gotten it moving in the first place. There's just a whole bunch of zombies walking in one direction simply because that's what they're doing.

That's how you get a zombie herd.

I think the point of the helicopter was showing that something inconsequential and far away could totally screw a bunch of people over by inadvertently creating a zombie mob.

Also, Sean: that wasn't Hershel's daughter that got eaten, it was his neighbour Patricia.

[Typhoid]

Also, Sean: that wasn't Hershel's daughter that got eaten, it was his neighbour Patricia


Oh, well that just shows how few shits I truly gave for that uninteresting walking Hamburger.
----



While I was pumped for Rick to defend himself, I think he missed the crucial part of his story which was "I killed Shane in self defense" rather than making it seem like he just murdered him in cold blood which is what it seems like Lori/Carl thought. I know he said "I gave him every choice, but he just kept coming", but he explained it so horribly that it just seemed like all the others thought he flat-out-killed Shane, because he said he "just wanted it over with". Maybe I'm looking too far into that, and everyone is totally cool with it and won't slowly grow to resent him because of the fact he defended his life.

[Vampyr]

I don't see how you can accuse some of us being negative for finding flaws with the show and then come out and admit you find one of the characters an "uninteresting hamburger."

That's exactly the flaws some of us have been pointing out!

[Angrist]

Maybe I'm looking too far into that, and everyone is totally cool with it and won't slowly grow to resent him because of the fact he defended his life.Yeah I also thought he didn't quite express himself well enough. But then I also remembered he was close to grabbing Shane's gun... If Shane really still wanted Rick dead, he wouldn't have let him come that close. So in a way Rick did "just want to get it over with", he didn't want to talk again and risk being killed later.


Curious: what was the effect on Rick's last speech on you? Because when I heard him rage, I thought "now the guy has lost it... is he going to be a dictator of these people???" I found the speech pretty stupid, making more enemies than friends.

But so far I've heard 2 people say they totally agreed with Rick. Your thoughts?

[Typhoid]

I don't see how you can accuse some of us being negative for finding flaws with the show and then come out and admit you find one of the characters an "uninteresting hamburger."

That's exactly the flaws some of us have been pointing out!


I've never hid the fact I dislike a small handful of things related to specific characters, and when there's something I'm against, I voice my opinion. I just hate/dislike very few things with the show, which should be clear because I've hardly said any negative things that didn't involve me assuming plot-twists.

And I wasn't accusing anyone of "being negative." I just find/found little sense in watching a show (from your collective perspective) when all you guys (the people you are referring to) do is complain about it more than not. Nearly every post after every episode involved very little "I liked this weeks episode, I thought it was well-written, well-acted, and I was into it the whole time, I can't wait for next week's episode!" I'm not saying you guys dislike the show, or that there are not things you like about it - but the positives hardly get voiced; and I'm not the only person who has brought that up. I might be the only person you guys choose to focus on because I talk the most and reply to everything, but I'm not a one-man army, here.

While I dislike that chracter and didn't give a shit about her - did I rip it apart? Nah. I called her an " Uninteresting hamburger". Two negative words towards one character. That's all you've got on me to defend all of the hate spewed through 2 seasons? ;) One part of one sentence from one post by me is equivalent to 5 pages of "This show sucks. I was hoping it would be so much better."? :lol:

And if you dig back through my posts I have said negative things towards other shitty characters. Just not in every post -and it's not the entire structure of my message. In 90% of my posts it's been about how I liked the episodes, thought they were well-written, and was me either defending it from the people who rip it apart, or me assuming what will happen in the future based on minor events.
(I'll save you the time: I also said negative things about Carl from day one, or two, or three. It does however appear that someone's sprung for acting lessons for the kid. It doesn't seem as if they paid much for those lessons, though.)

(None of that was said with hate, rage, nor anger. I come across badly without inflection.
-------


Curious: what was the effect on Rick's last speech on you? Because when I heard him rage, I thought "now the guy has lost it... is he going to be a dictator of these people???" I found the speech pretty stupid, making more enemies than friends.

But so far I've heard 2 people say they totally agreed with Rick. Your thoughts?

I'm not sure how I feel about his speech yet. As a human man I can see where he'd come from - with all the anxiety of having your best friend treat you as if you've stolen your own wife and son away from him - and then pulling a gun on you forcing you to have to not only talk for your life, but to kill your best friend. I imagine that might put just a little bit of stress on a guy, zombies or no zombies.

I do however think he was correct in not telling everyone that he knew they were all infected - he waited until he knew for sure - which is the responsible thing to do. After he knew for sure he relayed the information; he just didn't want to spread panic. So dictator or not, there's still a good dude in there somewhere. I sort of think at this point he'll do whatever possible to keep his 'pack' alive. Every pack needs an Alpha Male in times of crisis. I think the part of him that wants to talk things out died when he killed Shane. I sort of think he's done with "This shit is fucked up", and moving more towards "Let's fuck this shit up".

[KillerGremlin]

Curious: what was the effect on Rick's last speech on you? Because when I heard him rage, I thought "now the guy has lost it... is he going to be a dictator of these people???" I found the speech pretty stupid, making more enemies than friends.

But so far I've heard 2 people say they totally agreed with Rick. Your thoughts?

I think Rick's speech was a much needed reminder that all season Rick has been pulling for "keeping the group together," but dissenting voices have resulted in costly schisms. People who have disagreed with Rick - be it Hershel or Shane - have costed the lives of others.

The other side of said speech...well...let's just say that by killing Shane rick becomes a little bit more like Shane. I think it's pretty clear that sacrifices will be made. Now hopefully that is a theme they can continue to channel moving forward.


Anyway, I've said it before: I am critical of this show because I like it a lot, but I want to love it. This show has so much potential...and now we have a chance to see that potential with Season 3. Maybe. The show has had internal conflict with the writers, they've had to fire people, they had their budget slashed by AMC.

Let's talk about the budget and pacing. Clearly a large amount of the budget went to the first and last episode in Season 2. Also, the first and last episode were much more exciting than a number of the middling episodes. And IMO, the hiatus isn't helping.

I'm hoping the fact that this show has outpaced Breaking Bad and Mad Men in terms of viewer ratings that it will get some more money.

X-Factor: Apparently zombies are expensive. A lot of the prison stuff doesn't even do with zombies...I wonder if it will be cheaper to make TV episodes that pit humans against humans, instead of having to do all the fancy make up and stuff for the zombies.

[Professor S]

One thing to keep in mind with this series is that there are no perfect people... no heroes. Everyone is keeping together because doing so is the best chance they have of surviving, not to help someone else. If the series follows the book more closely going forward, and I believe it will after hearing Kirkman's interview on the Talking Dead, you'll find many more reasons to dislike Rick at times, and Rick admits to many... many mistakes along the way.

This story is just getting started...

[KillerGremlin]

One thing to keep in mind with this series is that there are no perfect people... no heroes. Everyone is keeping together because doing so is the best chance they have of surviving, not to help someone else. If the series follows the book more closely going forward, and I believe it will after hearing Kirkman's interview on the Talking Dead, you'll find many more reasons to dislike Rick at times, and Rick admits to many... many mistakes along the way.

This story is just getting started...

Yup, yup. Rick is a leader...but being a leader doesn't default you to "good guy." The prison is still my favorite part of the comics, by far. It's a brilliant story, from start to finish, and the set-ups are killer. I have nothing but high hopes and high expectations for what lies ahead.

Unlike the farm, I look forward to seeing 13 episodes dedicated to the prison. I could even see it extended beyond that, depending on how good the stories go.

[Angrist]

So does that mean there won't be many zombies in season 3?

[Professor S]

So does that mean there won't be many zombies in season 3?

There is something coming that is far worse than zombies...

[Neo]

There is something coming that is far worse than zombies...

Zombies with lasers?

[Typhoid]

Zombies with bees in their mouth, so every time they walk towards you and moan bees fly out of it?!



What can be worse than zombies? Wait... More monologues.

[Angrist]

Oh by the way... This "everybody's infected" thing sure explains why everybody could cover themselves in zombie gore or stand 1 meter from a zombie being smashed to pieces.

But I still think it's idiotic.

[Typhoid]

Conversation's sake - and curiosity; why do you think that everyone being infected is idiotic?

[Angrist]

Covering yourself in zombie gore is idiotic. Everybody being infected doesn't seem to matter at all.

[Vampyr]

They were covering themselves in zombie gore to smell like a zombie. Makes sense to me.

I agree that everyone being infected really doesn't have any bearing on the story at all. I'm not sure if they expected that to be a "big reveal" or not, but it really doesn't change anything, it's just kind of a neat fact about the virus. Maybe it will mean something later on, like creating a "cure" virus to kill the zombies.

[Professor S]

I agree that everyone being infected really doesn't have any bearing on the story at all. I'm not sure if they expected that to be a "big reveal" or not, but it really doesn't change anything, it's just kind of a neat fact about the virus. Maybe it will mean something later on, like creating a "cure" virus to kill the zombies.

Not to harp, but this is one area of the story that I think the books handled much better. There is no "infection" in the books. No one knows why people turn into zombies. They just do. This makes the reveal much more dramatic, IMO, because there is no way out... no way to avoid your fate. And because there is no infection, there is no cure. The reveal is the realization that they are living in a new horrific world with no happy ending. THEY are The Walking Dead, not the zombies.

[KillerGremlin]

They were covering themselves in zombie gore to smell like a zombie. Makes sense to me.

That episode was terrible. The whole "hacking up the dead guy" should have stayed in the comic book. That shit belongs in comedy....and in fact it was used as a comedy piece in the BBC miniseries Dead Set.

Shameless plug, again, I already plugged this and I wish you people would watch it because it's good:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/0xybpLB6NGQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



Anyway, my only question, and I chose not to nitpick about this before because you guys don't like when I complain: if Rick knew that dead people come back as zombies, why was he sitting pretty mindlessly on top of Shane. It doesn't matter though. He mentioned he wasn't sure he believed the CDC guy anyway.

Along with what Prof S said, the fact that dead people come back to life as zombies is used in the comic to set the tone. In the comic book, Rick goes well out of his way to kill a zombie that was already killed earlier in the comic. It sort of sets the tone and explores the nature of Rick's character. The TV show reversed the role of the situation, and IMO diminished the tone a bit.

[Typhoid]

if Rick knew that dead people come back as zombies, why was he sitting pretty mindlessly on top of Shane. It doesn't matter though. He mentioned he wasn't sure he believed the CDC guy anyway.



A) His son was right behind him and he had just murdered his best friend. I doubt "Hold on a moment, son - I've got to decapitate the warm corpse of my former best friend before he re-animates and attempts to kills us both. I'm just assuming this will happen at this point, though. But you've got to be sure, even though I have no proof yet!" would be on the tip of his tongue opposed to "Holy fuck, I need to make sure my son wasn't emotionally scarred from possibly seeing his father stab his best friend."

B) But really You argued against yourself the best:

He mentioned he wasn't sure he believed the CDC guy anyway.

-----

To those who know: How was the scene of them hacking that dead guy up in the comics a comedy bit?

I think the scene was handled well in the show, I can't imagine how something that heavy could have some "hahas" in there, especially when the tone of the show is clearly not a comedy. Granted I never saw the "first incarnation" of that scene when it was...comedy - but the fact they went over the emotional distress they were having with the fact the people they're murdering and the corpse they're about to desecrate was once a real person just like them was good enough, if not better than any type of comedy I could imagine - especially when placed into this show; which has had very little to no intentional laughs in it.

When I think back to that scene I don't think "Fuck, I wish I was laughing right now at them chopping this guy up", I think "Fuck, hacking up a dead human being and putting his guts all over my body would be fucking hard as shit to have to cope with doing."
Maybe that's just because I can't see the comedy in the show, because it's not a comedy. Maybe the comic was a comedy, or had comedy. Maybe the show isn't intended to have any, and is supposed to be a juxtaposition of the comic - like a more hardcore 'real world' version; especially considering from what I've heard from those who've read it - is that a lot of key things in this are entirely different, if not the exact opposite of what they were in the comics. But I didn't read the comic. I just watch the show. Maybe comedy is what the zombie-infested world is missing. Maybe that's the cure for the disease, and they're all infected because nobody is laughing, right?! Solved it. Comedy


Edit: I've also never heard of Dead Set, but I'll try to check it out this weekend. I am intrigued.

[KillerGremlin]

No no no, I should have clarified my original statement, because I think I caused some confusion.

The scene where they hack up the zombie in the comics wasn't comedic at all. I need to go dust off my comic, but I believe it was just Rick and Glenn in the comic.

What I'm saying is that the whole "hacking up the dead guy/zombie" scene is ultra violent and kind of absurd. It's the type of violence that is very difficult to make work in live action because it's comic violence.

My opinion is that if you are going to take something that violent, and that absurd....you need to put a comedic spin on it to juxtapose the violence. Here are some contexts where a scene like that might work:

Real Life - yeah, I have friends who are going on to be doctors, so they take real college-level anatomy where you dissect donated cadavers. Everyone I know who has taken these classes has a sense of humor about, and strongly dissociates.

In Horror, by the villain - I don't think anyone would have any questions or concerns if Leatherface or Jason cut somebody up.

Comic Violence - One reason why Sin City has not budged from my top 5 comic films is because it is one of the few comic films that actually feels like a comic book. And because of that....scenes like this work:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/wySIejGK_DY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Comedy - If you are going to show a bunch of characters chopping somebody up, juxtapose that shit with some dark comedy. Dead Set did that brilliantly


My issue with the scene in the Walking Dead where they were cutting up the zombie is that it was not properly juxtaposed with comedy, and it wasn't comic enough. Now....maybe if you had REALLY GOOD ACTORS you could make that scene work in a realistic context....but I just felt like the scene was uncomfortable, and unintentionally funny because it was awkward.

The scene wasn't funny at all in the comic. It was pretty dark. It just didn't work as a dark scene on the show because it was awkward and unintentionally funny. To fix that issue, you can do what I cited in my above examples: juxtapose with humor, or be comic-like.

[KillerGremlin]

I'm trying to dig into my ultra-violence memory bank. I can think of realistic examples, like the Beach Scene from Saving Private Ryan. Very serious, based on a historic and real event....so that's an example where guts spilling out worked on a realistic level.

But then you have movies like Kill Bill, where Uma Thurman is dismembering people and limbs are flying everywhere. The whole scene in Vol. 1 is juxtaposed with various film techniques, and it's actually darkly comedic as well.

I'm just saying...I think the writers/director on the Walking Dead are supposed to be doing their job, and they are not. If you are adapting a TV show, you need to decide what stuff from the comic book works on live action TV, and you need to decide what does not work. The scene where they were axing up the zombie did not work, because the acting was not up to par, and it was awkward and uncomfortable. They could have simply fixed the issue by throwing in some dark humor or by leaving the scene out altogether.

I'm of the opinion that the scene was awkward, and it was funny not because it was intentionally funny, but because the acting was so bad and it was so awkward. That's not a nice criticism I'm making either.

Edit: There is a reason why comedy and horror are best friends. 99% of horror movies feature some form of humor, be it dark social commentary, or over-the-top, B-movie gore.

[Angrist]

And I just mentioned that scene because we finally knw why they "weren't infected" at that time.
Oh and I think T-Dog was in that scene even though he was supposed to be watching Merle on the roof. Movie mistake! :)

[manasecret]

Overall loved this season, by the way. I definitely liked the second half better, but I enjoyed every episode.

Can anyone spill some spoilers and explain (just a little) who the samurai with two pet zombies on chains is?

[Teuthida]

Origin comic which just appeared in Playboy this month. Huh. Could have swore this was known already. Guess she just mentioned it.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/qVVpkpZh8bg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

If don't want to read that (and is annoying to do so in a video): She was an attorney who had practiced fencing. When the apocalypse hit she found katanas at a neighbor's house. The zombies with her are her boyfriend and his best friend. Cut off their arms and lower jaws so they couldn't attack her and uses them as camo.

[Neo]

we finally knw why they "weren't infected" at that time.


Please explain what this means.

[Angrist]

Ugh. I thought that whole idea of covering yourself with zombie gore was retarded. They were trying not to get infected by whatever it was that was causing the zombies. So why would you COVER YOURSELF with zombie flesh and blood? "As long as it doesn't get into your eyes, right?"

And now in the last episode we find out that they had been infected the whole time. So it finally makes sense...

[crenk]

One of my most favourite tv serie which I love a lot.

[Teuthida]

Found this very cool.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/qoniNU1bZnw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


And a preview clip from Season 3:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/l2FgO91QvU4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Teuthida]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/V9_lkap-uFA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[manasecret]

SWEEEEEET

Merle's back, baby. Merle's back.

[jamesbuttler]

Hello dude,

I am huge fan of horror Tv Show and Movies...The Walking Dead is My one of best Tv show....THe character of this Tv show look real ghost...I shock to see the character of this tv show......

[manasecret]

Well Mr. Buttler, Merle truly is a ghost from the past. It is a good shock to see him back.

[Teuthida]

It's back. Thought that was a solid first episode.

[Vampyr]

It was good, but I continue to be amazed that the dumbest people on earth appear to the ones who survive the zombie apocalypse. They just make the most horrible choices.

We'll take this old man, our only doctor and person capable of delivering a baby, and put him on the front lines!

[Vampyr]

Second episode was also really good. This season is shaping up nicely.

I'm so glad Rick killed Mexican-Shane. Really shows the character has learned not to even let crap like that get started anymore. Was also interesting to see how the hardened criminals reacted to Rick and company, who, after everything they've went through, are way more tough.

[Angrist]

I'm a bit late with watching this, so here are my thoughts on episode 1:

- Have they never seen real pregnant women? They don't look like someone trying to keep a pillow under their shirt. They also can't wear skinny jeans.
- Apparently we're starving... but there's no way we're eating dog food! We'd rather die than eat dog food, seriously!
- Hey we've found the perfect way to dispose of zombies! You just lure them to a fence and stab them through the head. Now that we know that, let's waste all our bullets on them and when we have no more bullets, let's enter an enclosed area and try our luck in hand to hand combat. No one lives forever, right?
- I've asked this in season 2... but if you turn zombie, does the bone in your skull disappear? Apparently you can perforate one with the blunt side of a broomstick.
- Ok we abandoned the cars, have no food and are now in a square mile's field with no roof above our heads. Can we please stay here forever?? Pleeeease? If we had some seeds we could even grow some vegetables to stay alive! In the mean time let's sing songs around the campfire so the viewers will understand that we have found ultimate happiness.
- Weren't they like really good at hugging a zombie and then stabbing it to death? Why do they start running like a bunch of morons when they're inside and see some zombies come around the corner?
- I'm an Afro-American chick with a sword! My role in this series is to look angry!
- I'm a redneck badass with a crossbow, but when I get really scared I try to wave the zombies away with my flashlight!
- So one guy (as Vampyr already pointed out: let's put our only doctor on the front line!) gets bitten in his leg and it's bleeding. He's already infected so all we need to do is keep him from dying. Hmm how do we stop the bleeding? ... I know! Let's cut off his leg!!! He'll be forever thankful!
- Wait, we almost forgot the drama! What can we come up with this time? Eh ok so Rick doesn't want to talk to his wife, ok? Woah we'll have enough drama to last the whole season!

Ok that's about it. Apart from that, the episode was decent.

[BreakABone]

I'm just not gonna believe it until next week! >.<

[Vampyr]

I knew T-Dog was dead as soon as he had more than one line.

[Teuthida]

RIP T-Dog. I was happy he was finally getting more lines. Should have known.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/SWhhPWyWCv0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Wasn't feeling anything during the Lori and Carl scene. Thought it was too bad since I usually get really emotionally involved in the shows I watch. But then that the flashback...and then seeing Rick's reaction. :baby:

Also really liked the Governor's twitch when he was speaking to Merle.

I'm just waiting until zombie baby. Has to happen.

I've asked this in season 2... but if you turn zombie, does the bone in your skull disappear? Apparently you can perforate one with the blunt side of a broomstick.
Yeah, that is odd. This ep had Glen slice a skull completely in half with what was probably a dull knife.

[KillerGremlin]

Maybe I'm just over the whole nerd rage thing, or maybe Season 2 set the bar so low for absolute pile of shit, but damn!

This season is fucking good! And they are deviating from the comics.

I like it.

I have....nothing to really nitpick about. Sure, the show isn't Breaking Bad, but it never will be. They really turned this show around with Season 3, and I'm ready to eat my hat or whatever.

Also: Dexter. Another show that went to fuck-shit-fuck after Season 2 and cruised controlled into the crapper, and surprisingly turned it around big time this season.

What the fuck is going on? Who cares?! I have entertainz.

Also, RIP Lori. You were a proverbial thorn in my real ass. But we all loved you. And you lasted longer than the black guy.

[Angrist]

Ok I'm up-to-date with the show again. What can I say? People had to die, it was time for a change. But I actually expected Rick to go before Lori. It would be nice to see what happens to the group when Rick dies. Daryl would probably go solo while the rest would try to find another 'leader'.

Anyway, I still think it's stupid how they handle the zombies. Like in the last episode, why wasn't anyone carrying his melee weapon? That was incredibly retarded and we saw what happened. More people dying needlessly.

I didn't expect to get emotion with Lori dying (I still think she was a psychotic bitch), but it was a pretty strong scene.

Just wondering: in the comics, was the Governor also in a town? I was under the impression he was ruling the prison. Not that it matters much...

[BreakABone]

So Rick has checked out

[Teuthida]

Ring ring ring ring ring ring ring. (http://youtu.be/hzsARKdO9EU)

[Professor S]

I have officially tuned out those that complain about this show. It has been consistently great every episode this season. The tone is completely different since Darabont left, and you feel anxiety, fear, and desperation with each episode. They're also come to terms with the fact that these characters need to be unlikeable a good part of the time, because you can only be so nice during the apocalypse.

[Teuthida]

I'm pleasantly surprised how much better this season is compared to the last two. Really got their act together and has become quite an enjoyable show.

[The Germanator]

Yeah, season 3 has been very good. No complaints.

Also I am up through compendium 2 of the comics. They are awesome! The show will never live up to that, but oh well. I've gotta get more, though I don't think the next volume is out for a bit.

[Angrist]

I have to admit that I've found little to whine about in the last episodes. :p Sure, some characters are boring (Andrea, why are you still alive?) and it's like every episode needs to have at least 1 "let's get killed in the most original way" moment. But other than that, it's pretty good.

Edit: No Laurie where they left her... so Tim or whatever the kids name is didn't have the guts to shoot his mom after all?

[Teuthida]

The walker Rick kept stabbing apparently ate her.

[Angrist]

Aaaaaah, that was well explained.... :rolleyes:

[BreakABone]

Aaaaaah, that was well explained.... :rolleyes:

There was like a blood trail and guts and a bloated zombie.. did you want him to say.. you ate my wife you bastard!

[Teuthida]

I need to read the letters column more often. Steven Yeun wrote a letter which appeared in issue 102. Spoilers for issue 100...and season two of Friday Night Lights. So read at your own risk:

http://i47.tinypic.com/jl7bra.jpg

Funny dude.

[KillerGremlin]

I have officially tuned out those that complain about this show. It has been consistently great every episode this season. The tone is completely different since Darabont left, and you feel anxiety, fear, and desperation with each episode. They're also come to terms with the fact that these characters need to be unlikeable a good part of the time, because you can only be so nice during the apocalypse.

This season has been awesome, but you have to admit, Season 1 was inconsistent and cheesy, and Season 2 was a piece of shit. The writting was awful, the pacing was off, the soap opera acting was contrite and dumb, and everything sucked.

I pretty much checked out after Season 2, and I'm happy they did a complete 180 with Season 3.

Season 3 is really holding its own, and as I said...I have no real complaints. I have compliments, even! There are moments that are like, "damn."

I was one of the Darabont supporters, so I need to apologize. Apparently he was fucking everything up. It's good that he left. Best decision ever. Now here is to hoping for 3 or 4 more seasons of this! At the rate we are going, things are going to get really dark.

[Vampyr]

My only complaint is Andrea. Cannot die soon enough.

[Angrist]

Did anything actually happen last episode? I almost felt like fast-forwarding the show. I almost feel like they could have skipped this episode and go straight to the next one.

And if you want to make people believe that 1 zombie ate a whole human... yes, you need better explanation.

Oh and did anyone ever doubt that Sofia's mom was alive? I'm surprised they smeared that out over 3 episodes, what was the use?

[Typhoid]

My only complaint is Andrea. Cannot die soon enough.

Agreed.
I hate everything about her.
The actress' face. Her voice.

I'm hoping she's only being used to go deeper into the character of the Governor (considering Mishonne now left her, and they're not tied together anymore, and all the info Merle needed from her has been extracted. Her usefulness to the show has been spent), and then he'll kill her in some gruesome way - because shit is getting too non-zombie between them - and their entire shit is just boring.

Maybe it's a pacing thing, though.
I figure if every episode has the knob turned to 11, soon 11 will be the norm for that knob, and there will be nowhere to take the intensity so you just turn that knob down to a 2 every once in a while. So then when you turn the knob back to 11, the crowds all fist-pumping, rocking, and moshing again.

I just really, really hope Andrea's story, and the last episode was the shitty ballad amidst the sea of fists.

I want that cunts head in a fishbowl.

[Vampyr]

I hate the way she does that head-roll-cock-eye-half-smile thing. She does it constantly.

[Teuthida]

Glen is badass. Great ep. So cool to see Rick and Michonne together. Can't wait for next week. The Governor is probably going to snap completely now that he knows there's nothing left of Penny.

[KillerGremlin]

This mid-season finale stuff is fucking bullshit. I wish I didn't have an addiction to AMC shows. Mad Men...Breaking Bad...this show....

It's okay, karma evens it out.

Anyway, great episode. The Governor keeps upping the creep factor...and who knows what is going to go down. I'm really impressed with this season, which has taken this show from something I watch because I feel obligated to watch it, to something I watch because I'm genuinely excited to watch it. Really good stuff this season.

Glen has come a long way. They changed the story a bit with the Governor raping the hot chick from Chuck...I believe he goes after Michonne in the comics. And Merle is doing a MUCH BETTER JOB this season than Season 1, when he played "bad redneck racist stereotype." The dude has acting chops, and I still struggle to explain Season 1.

SPOILER....sort of:


I'm assuming the "mid season fuck-me-up-the-ass finale" is going to be Rick and co. attacking the Governor's town, and fucking shit up...which will set up the finale where the Governor strikes back.

Who knows what side Andrea will fall on when all is said and done, but she is kind of a ditsy cunt. I still remember the sniper incident. I'm rooting for Glen and the hot chick from Chuck. And of course Rick.

It sucks to be that guy sleeping in the cabin...poor guy can't catch a break. His dog dies, his house gets invaded, and some strangers fuck up his shit. That's a shitty way to go.

[Vampyr]

It seems like a ton of shows are doing "mid season finales" now. Next Sunday is also the last episode of Once Upon a Time until January. I can only assume other shows I don't watch are doing it too, since the two shows I do watch are.

[BreakABone]

It seems like a ton of shows are doing "mid season finales" now. Next Sunday is also the last episode of Once Upon a Time until January. I can only assume other shows I don't watch are doing it too, since the two shows I do watch are.

I think it has been common practice. Usually shows take huge breaks this time of year just due to holidays and stuff.

I think the term mid-season finale is relatlvely new though.

[Teuthida]

I prefer it to randomly skipping weeks. But I hate how all the shows take their break during the holidays. I partially blame this practice for the increase of suicide around this time of year. Folks are already depressed they have no one to share the holidays with. And now they can't even escape into their favorite shows. TV breaks kill.

Hmm. Ok, apparently it's a myth that the suicide rate increases at this time. I still hate it.

[KillerGremlin]

So...that finale?

[Vampyr]

So...that finale?

Was great - maybe the best episode of the series so far - other than the first two?

I really think Merle is going to sacrifice himself for Daryl.

[Teuthida]

"Cheesedick Shoots Girlfriend After Argument About ‘The Walking Dead’" (http://www.screenjunkies.com/tv/tv-news/cheesedick-shoots-girlfriend-after-argument-about-the-walking-dead)

[Angrist]

I didn't see how that episode was worth calling a finale. Seemed like an average episode to me, and it didn't end with such a huge cliffhanger.

[Vampyr]

I didn't see how that episode was worth calling a finale. Seemed like an average episode to me, and it didn't end with such a huge cliffhanger.

It's not really a finale. It's a "midseason finale"...so really it's just the middle episode of the season.

[Angrist]

A midseason finale is also called a finale. ;) I expected a liiiiiiiiitle bit more from it.

[Teuthida]

So quiet here since its return.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/YQwrE-WO1Js" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

http://i.imgur.com/UAE2LOg.jpg

[BreakABone]

Andrea worst character on TV?

[Professor S]

Andrea worst character on TV?

I don't think so. Think of it this way:

She runs back to the Prison to see her old group and she finds out that two friends are dead, Hershel has one leg, they have no food, are surrounded by zombies, she was ratted-out by her best friend, and Rick has gone nuts. They have committed to a fight she believes they can't win, and showed no consideration for the people in Woodbury (many innocent, and remember a Woodbury bystander was killed by the group). Essentially, her old group has gone completely to shit.

Meanwhile, Woodbury has plenty of food, weapons, ammo, and an army. As for her obsession with Phil... women are attracted to security, and Andrea has always gone with the most "alpha" male she could find. While nuts, Phil is pretty alpha.

I can't say I agree with her decision making, but I don't find it unbelievable. As we've seen time and time again in this series, people make bad decisions when under severe stress.

[KillerGremlin]

I don't think so. Think of it this way:

She runs back to the Prison to see her old group and she finds out that two friends are dead, Hershel has one leg, they have no food, are surrounded by zombies, she was ratted-out by her best friend, and Rick has gone nuts. They have committed to a fight she believes they can't win, and showed no consideration for the people in Woodbury (many innocent, and remember a Woodbury bystander was killed by the group). Essentially, her old group has gone completely to shit.

Meanwhile, Woodbury has plenty of food, weapons, ammo, and an army. As for her obsession with Phil... women are attracted to security, and Andrea has always gone with the most "alpha" male she could find. While nuts, Phil is pretty alpha.

I can't say I agree with her decision making, but I don't find it unbelievable. As we've seen time and time again in this series, people make bad decisions when under severe stress.

She's just in a manipulative/abusive relationship...and "Philip" makes here dingle tingle.

Andrea gets an F- in identifying psychotic sociopathic killers. I feel kind of bad, but I'm okay with whatever bad karma comes her way.

[Vampyr]

She's the most annoying, at the very least. Also a terrible actress. Just ready for her to die.

Last episode was also super boring.

[BreakABone]

I don't think so. Think of it this way:

She runs back to the Prison to see her old group and she finds out that two friends are dead, Hershel has one leg, they have no food, are surrounded by zombies, she was ratted-out by her best friend, and Rick has gone nuts. They have committed to a fight she believes they can't win, and showed no consideration for the people in Woodbury (many innocent, and remember a Woodbury bystander was killed by the group). Essentially, her old group has gone completely to shit.

Meanwhile, Woodbury has plenty of food, weapons, ammo, and an army. As for her obsession with Phil... women are attracted to security, and Andrea has always gone with the most "alpha" male she could find. While nuts, Phil is pretty alpha.

I can't say I agree with her decision making, but I don't find it unbelievable. As we've seen time and time again in this series, people make bad decisions when under severe stress.

Oh it wasn't just her actions in this episode.. even if being played the weasley nerd character.

Just seems like they pile a ton of crap on her character and offers so little redemption so far.

[KillerGremlin]

Oh it wasn't just her actions in this episode.. even if being played the weasley nerd character.

Just seems like they pile a ton of crap on her character and offers so little redemption so far.

I would agree with this. Andrea hasn't had a ton of great development, and seems to be strung along as a plot vehicle among other things.

The writing and character development is still really inconsistent. This show is just stuck in B- territory, and I've come to terms with that and just lowered my expectations. As such, this season is still miles ahead of the first two.

I'm a little sad because The Governor and the Woodbury stuff could have been more suspenseful, but instead, we are getting a fairly unnerving inside perspective with no real stakes.

Merle and Andrea both drive me nuts. But whatever. I look forward to the reboot in a few years.

[Professor S]

I look forward to the reboot in a few years.

You do know that The Walking Dead is one of the highest rated shows on TV, right? It even beat The Big Bang Theory when head to head with the Oscars. This is a cable show going toe to toe with network TV and winning. In a few years this show won't be rebooted, it will still be on the air.

http://blog.zap2it.com/frominsidethebox/2013/02/walking-dead-ratings-oscars-competition-cant-keep-this-monster-down.html

[KillerGremlin]

You do know that The Walking Dead is one of the highest rated shows on TV, right? It even beat The Big Bang Theory when head to head with the Oscars. This is a cable show going toe to toe with network TV and winning. In a few years this show won't be rebooted, it will still be on the air.

http://blog.zap2it.com/frominsidethebox/2013/02/walking-dead-ratings-oscars-competition-cant-keep-this-monster-down.html

I guess I should celebrate the success of a zombie TV show adapted from a comic book.

Then again, popularity has always had an interesting correlation with quality.

I'm actually in agreement with you. I think they will string this show along for a while...to what end? Cancellation? A planned finale?

It will be interesting to see. In the mean time, I enjoy the moments when the show strikes that suspenseful, post-Apocalyptic feeling, and sucks me in. Frequently, I find the pacing to be off, the drama to be forced, characters underdeveloped or inconsistently written, etc.

We know there was conflict with the creator and writers in Season 1 and 2, which explains some of the inconsistencies. I'm sure we are still feeling that. It's also hard to develop characters and plot for an ongoing show. AMC's decision to split the show into halves didn't help with the pacing either.

The hardest part for me is that I love the comics, I love the mythology and lore, and I bounce between wanting to like the show and liking the show. I like a lot of characters on the show, and I'm happy that it deviates from the comics.

As with Season 2...I feel like much of the current conflict is forced and anticlimactic. We have too much insight into Woodbury, and the Governor is a tad too humanized, imo. I have some faith in the team of writers. It's a bit too early in the season for a climax, so I expect a curve ball that is going to shock everyone. Something much bigger than the feud between Rick and the Governor.

[Teuthida]

Loved this last ep. And was written by the new showrunner. :banana:

[Professor S]

KG - I agree with everything you wrote. In fact, I think the show should adopt the framework of Downton Abbey. They skip long periods of time and get to the good stuff rather than trying to create a play by play of all events that take place.

I really liked the last show as well, but still don't understand why they didn't tie up Morgan after he tried to kill them and they saw the crazy writing on the walls...

[Vampyr]

I seem to recall Rick did tie his hands together with some zip ties. Didn't actually tie him to anything else though. I guess he also kind of assumed he would at least recognize him.

One thing I found really odd is...so all this time they've been a short distance away from Rick's hometown? How did Rick, being a police officer, not know that prison was there the entire time?

[BreakABone]

I seem to recall Rick did tie his hands together with some zip ties. Didn't actually tie him to anything else though. I guess he also kind of assumed he would at least recognize him.

One thing I found really odd is...so all this time they've been a short distance away from Rick's hometown? How did Rick, being a police officer, not know that prison was there the entire time?

I was wondering that as well, but imagined it had to be a longer drive than they were showing us.

[Teuthida]

Mmm finger biting good.

[KillerGremlin]

I love Michael Rooker, so I'm glad to see that he toned down the over-the-top, "stereotypical dumbass racist redneck" that he played in Season 1.

He did a good job this last episode, and this season in general (and last season with his hallucination cameo).

My question: is this writing, or acting choice? Either way, I tip my hat off to him and his fingers. Heh.

[Vampyr]

What a terrible season finale.

[Professor S]

What a terrible season finale.

Agreed. It started out so strong, too. But the "assault" was a joke. I get why they did it the way they did, because the Governor's men have no real experience fighting, but it was SOOOO unsatisfying. Also, why is everyone leaving Woodbury for a FUCKING PRISON? Take over the nice place with heat and electricity, not the shit hole.

[KillerGremlin]

I don't get the pacing of this show at all.

It was a huge mistake to sit down Rick and the Governor before the showdown. The entire Andrea story arc has been a huge mistake. The Governor is probably one of the most inconsistently written characters on the show...which makes no sense because he is one of the most distinguished characters from the comics.

The writers have made it unclear if the Governor is just jaded like Rick, and upset over not doing enough to protect/save his daughter. Or is he a crazy, sociopathic mother fucker, that keeps heads in fish tanks and has no problem gunning down innocent people. Or is the Governor just pissed off because of Michonne?

The finale and showdown was wholly unsatisfying, and also kind of boring. =/ What didn't make any sense to me is that Caesar just stood there while the Governor started gunning down innocent Woodbury folks. Especially after that scene from the last episode where Caesar and Daryl finger-fucked each other over a cigarette. Evidently that scene had no real point in terms of character development for Caesar.

What didn't work for me was the stuff with Andrea. There was no suspense there, because I don't particularly care about her character. It's not that I don't feel bad for her, I do. I just think her character is poorly developed/written.

So where was the suspense? What are the stakes? What was the big surprise? Why am I supposed to care about Season 4?

In the end, this show is AMC's cash cow. It's making a TON of money. It's getting a ton of views. People were complaining that they kept playing commercials every 5 minutes. I wouldn't know because I don't watch live TV anymore, but I believe it.

Either way, I still enjoy the show when it occasionally is in stride, so I'll probably tune in to Season 4 come this October.

[The Germanator]

Really, really bad finale. In fact, I thought most of the last 4 episodes weren't so great leading up to it...The first 12 episodes had some pretty good moments this season, and I thought it was heading to a better place...but no, that was just super, super, super weak.

3 showrunners in 4 years, that's some messy production.

I normally hate reboots, but can they just reboot The Walking Dead with more competent writers, actors, and showrunners? I think that's what I'm always disappointed by. The source material is so good, but the show is so mediocre.

[Angrist]

Ugh, I'm watching the season finale right now. I can't believe they're spreading out Andrea's scene over the whole episode.
She was picking up the tool with her feet and then bringing it to her hand. I told myself "If she drops it, I'll stop watching." She dropped it, such cliche. I still want to finish it, but I'm a bit mad at the show, so I'm taking a break.

What the governor did sure was unexpected. It kind of suits him, but I feel the show writers were just looking for a way to cut costs and avoid a huge battle.
The whole season is woking towards this war that doesn't come. Bad writing.

Edit: Ugh. Now all those women and children are going to move into the prison, while they have this nice and fully operational village just around the corner? Madness.
Oh, I hate the show for trying to make me like Andrea one last time. "I just didn't want anyone to get killed, that's pretty much my life motto!" Yeah right.

Also, why do they keep killing and amputating people that have bite wounds, even though they know everybody's already infected and all you need to turn is to die?


Anyway I saw the whole second half of season 3 in just 4 days. Some episodes I played at 110% speed, just to save some time. I expected good stuff to be in those episodes somewhere (and I guess they were), but most of it just seemed like a waste of my time. The episode with the surviving guy in the city was pretty good I guess.
Oh one thing that blew my mind in one of the earlier episodes: when those 4 survivors entered the prison and were waiting for Rick to come back, some others are talking to them and mending their wounds. All of a sudden that suicidal chick comes in with the baby, walks to the other side of the room, does nothing, and goes back again.
WHY WAS SHE TAKING A BABY INTO A ROOM WHERE SHE DIDN'T NEED ANYTHING, AMONG POSSIBLY DANGEROUS STRANGERS?!?!?!?! I know the writers were just trying to create a meaningful scene, but if you give it a little more thought, it all falls apart.

[Teuthida]

http://i.imgur.com/985hj47.gif

http://i.imgur.com/TDwGHf7.jpg

[Canyarion]

Anyone watching? The episodes have been decent, although the whole disease thing took a bit too long.

But this last one with the governor? Boooooring!

[Vampyr]

I have officially quit watching it. I watched the first two episodes of this season, and they were so boring I just quit.

[Teuthida]

I think this has been my favorite season thus far. And this last episode was probably my favorite from that.

That being said, just dropped the comic. Might pick it up again in the future. But that has been far too slow.

[Fox 6]

I have officially quit watching it. I watched the first two episodes of this season, and they were so boring I just quit.

Thats the problem I had with the second season when I quit watching. Just kept thinking 'FIND THAT STUPID GIRL ALREADY!' My friend kept saying I should start again because the show got really good, and the review I read of a recent episode had nothing good to say about the pacing and some other things..

[Canyarion]

Some episodes are decent (usually the first ones of a new season). What I like about this season is that they killed off the most annoying characters in season 3.
What I don't like is that the last 2 episodes suggest we're now going to get a repetition of last season's story. -_-

[KillerGremlin]

I have officially quit watching it. I watched the first two episodes of this season, and they were so boring I just quit.

It really has not improved, despite some of the positive comments here. I typed up my rant and deleted it because I don't care that much, but this season feels a lot like the last season...same inconsistent pacing, all the suspense is because characters are doing the dumbest things possible, etc.

They introduced a bunch of new characters so those characters can be killed off, everyone seems to have forgotten about The Governor.... the zombie suspense is forced too, and it shows up like clockwork every episode or two so the network/writers can fill their forced zombie attack quota.

You'd figure if the Governor was coming back they would establish the prison as a utopia. Instead people are dying from a plague...which should be a very insignificant concern in a prison of all places (don't the doors lock?). The fences are falling apart (WTF?), and worst of all, everyone seems oblivious to The Governor. Honestly, the prison seems like a pretty unsafe place to be at this point. Why wouldn't you get the fuck out of dodge and go somewhere else?

To top it all off, new survivors keep showing up so they can die in the same episode (usually during a trip to suburbia or the forest), and for some reason the car manufactures continue to make new models of cars in this zombie apocalypse and supply them to our team of survivors. What a luxury. Why not move into the car factory, I bet it has nice amenities than the prison.

I turn this show on and sort of half-watch it while I read Reddit and catch up on the news, but I don't dedicate an hour in front of my TV.

It's just mediocre. That's the word I'd use. A combination of bad and disappointing. So much wasted potential squandered with budget cuts and poorly paced episodes, and horrible writing. This:

http://www.yourmoviesucks.org/2013/09/yms-walking-dead-season-1-part-1.html

http://www.yourmoviesucks.org/2013/10/yms-walking-dead-seasons-1-part-2.html

I keep saying it...this show would have been better if they kept the 6-10 episodes per season format, didn't do this mid season finale bullshit, didn't cut the budget, and didn't fire the show's fucking creator.

I hope the reboot sucks less.

[KillerGremlin]

...and the mid season finale looks to be exactly what we all guessed it would be. Fucking shocking. Like, shock my balls, brave writers of The Walking Dead.

[Vampyr]

...and the mid season finale looks to be exactly what we all guessed it would be. Fucking shocking. Like, shock my balls, brave writers of The Walking Dead.

What happened? I don't mind spoilers.

[KillerGremlin]

What happened? I don't mind spoilers.

It looks like The Governor is going to attack the prison, which should have been the Season 3 finale.

[TheSlyMoogle]

It looks like The Governor is going to attack the prison, which should have been the Season 3 finale.

Wait didn't he technically attack the prison in Season 3?

[KillerGremlin]

Wait didn't he technically attack the prison in Season 3?

He did...but nothing significant came of it.

That's why the writing for this show is dogshit. Now the Governor is attacking the prison, yet again...only this time there are no stakes, or the stakes are way lower. I mean, why would you want to live at that prison? The prison seems incredibly unsafe. Walkers are attracted to it, people are dying left and right from the plague, Rick makes poor decisions on a daily basis.

Say what you will about the Governor being fucking crazy and selfish and a narcissistic psycho, but at least Woodbury had four walls and stability.

What made the attacks on the prison so significant in the comics is one of two things. (1) Surprise. After escaping the prison / the rape and torture, it was implied that everyone was home free and that The Governor did not know where the prison was located, therefore establishing the prison as a utopia of sorts. (2) Stability. The prison was not only safe, but they were starting up a farm life for food, they had the zombie situation under control, people were coupling and getting on with their lives....things were going great.

Season 3 of The Walking Dead made some Mark Sanchez butt fumbles with the writing, pacing, and plot...so now Season 4 gets to rehash the should-have-been-finale of Season 3. Which leaves all sorts of ? ? ? ? ? ? ? regarding where this show moves forward.

After the prison the comic departs into weird, slowly paced, sometimes mediocre "meh," so I'm hoping the TV show can throw some fun curves in the mix once freed from some of the source material...but I'm not holding my breath.

[Canyarion]

I really wonder if anyone actually enjoys the story of the governor in S4. He used to be the biggest jerk in season 3....... and now we're supposed to like him again, just because for a while he forgets he's an evil bastard?

If they want to surprise us, he is NOT going to attack the prison.

[BreakABone]

Tonight's the type of episode I stick around for, but so damn infrequent.

[Teuthida]

It would be impossible to do that sort of ep more than once a season.


Heh, KG. Your anger at this show is funny. It was never good (I hated it under Darabont) but this season has been the only completely solid one for me. Really liking this new showrunner. He did the best eps for the last season as well. Hopefully the second half of the season will keep up this trend.

That being said, TWD is not one of my drop everything and watch shows. I'm usually half watching while doing another task. Perfect show for that. Maybe if I gave it my full attention I'd be angry too.

Does suck they killed off one of the best characters. I would have sacrificed Darryl for him.

[Canyarion]

Of course this whole band of strangers dies while only 1 of the good guys is killed. What else did we expect?

Well, the episode was good, but like Teuth says, it's because lots of stuff happened. And you can't keep that up. It's pretty sad how we had to go through 5 slow disease episodes, then 2 boring Governor ones to get to an exciting episode. And it basically ended how last season's finale should have ended.

I'm glad that they're on the road again... and I do hope they get reunited pretty soon.

[BreakABone]

I agree

But the fact of the matter is the season should build to this episode.

If you watched really this episode.. you wouldn't miss much skipping the rest of the season.

Like the plot didn't combine until this episode and stuff like the Governor's time and the disease were such a minor factor.

[Canyarion]

I also hated how Rick wouldn't just tell all the Governor's new people what really happened between them. Most of them didn't want to fight, but believed Rick and the others were a gang of villains.
And now all these good people are dead.

Btw what did you think of Daryll shooting the tank-guy?

[BreakABone]

I also hated how Rick wouldn't just tell all the Governor's new people what really happened between them. Most of them didn't want to fight, but believed Rick and the others were a gang of villains.
And now all these good people are dead.

Btw what did you think of Daryll shooting the tank-guy?

To be fair, Rick didn't know their motives

And he did try to explain that even after the last time, he took in some of the Governor's residents.

[KillerGremlin]

It would be impossible to do that sort of ep more than once a season.


Heh, KG. Your anger at this show is funny. It was never good (I hated it under Darabont) but this season has been the only completely solid one for me. Really liking this new showrunner. He did the best eps for the last season as well. Hopefully the second half of the season will keep up this trend.

That being said, TWD is not one of my drop everything and watch shows. I'm usually half watching while doing another task. Perfect show for that. Maybe if I gave it my full attention I'd be angry too.

Does suck they killed off one of the best characters. I would have sacrificed Darryl for him.

I don't hate the show and I'm really not that angry. Bitching about stuff on the Internet is effortless, low hanging fruit. :p

Obviously I'm attached to the show, as I still watch it. But like you, I almost always do something else while watching the show.

I'm excited to see where they go after this mid season finale, but this should have been the end of Season 3. The first half of Season 4 was largely fluff. And the "redeemable Governor" stuff is bullshit. The guy has a GIAAAAAAAAANT resume of douche baggery. Even in a post apocalyptic dystopia, the dude's actions are deplorable.

But that's just me. A lot of people disagree, and like how the show focused on The Governor.

You know, the show is changing writers for what is it, the third time now? I do agree with you that Season 4 is the best Season thus far (except for maybe the first part of Season 1), but Season 4 is falling short because Season 3 was so bad. Trying to cram The Governor back into the show required monumental amounts of bullshit.

Here's to hoping the show gets better as it moves on.