Nintendo Revolution... More Like Retrolution

[Professor S]

I keep on having high hopes for Nintendo, and they continue to dash them all to Hell. The more I hear about the Revolution, the more I am reminded that Nintendo is just blind to the direction videogames are going, or even basic marketing sense.

1) After Nintendo screwed up their launch of the Gamecube, and before everyone starts flaming me please remember that even they admitted they did, Nintendo said they would not allow themselves to be caught in the rear of the gaming bus again. Yet as we see at E3, they are once again behind both MS and Sony. So little to show for the Revolution when MS and Sony are showing so much.

2) Dance Dance Revolution... with MARIO. Is there any franchise that Nintendo won't pimp out their most beloved characters to? Mario is quickly becoming irrelevant in the gaming world due to Nintendo's abuse of the property. It will only be a matter of time before we see Metroid Chess and Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Shuffleboard.

3) The biggest stink over the Revolution that I've seen is the ability for it to download old Nintendo games from the history of the company, across all of its consoles: Ultimate Backwards Compatibility. Yeah, thats a great gimmick, but you don't go forward by looking to the past. I wish Nintendo would get over its gloried past, and realize that they are quickly on the way to becoming a distant third place gaming platform in the present. Oh yeah, and everyone loves how "sexy" the Revolution looks, like anyone ever bought a console because it matched their home decor.

I want Nintendo to succeed. I didn't buy a Gamecube so that it would sit in the back of my entertainment center gathering dust, yet there it remains. Nintendo's refusal to create new and exciting properties, and instead concentrate on gimmicky, perpheral driven enterprise (Donkey Konga and the DS Scribble Pad) has done more to alienate casual and even long time gamers than to recruit new ones. Initial sales of the first Konga game and DS were positive, but as is shown by the current sales figures, no one cares about a Konga game anymore and the DS is getting bitch slapped by the PSP. And the way that Nintendo is also alienating developers by creating such things as the need for a pair of Congos and a stylus is shown by the number of developers that are flocking to the PSP instead of the DS. Nintendo's hardware innovaltions are their biggest hindrance.

If Nintendo doesn't look at what others are doing right, and what they are doing wrong, then all they will be left with is their blindly loyal hardcore fan base.

Of course, this is merely my humble opinion.

[MuGen]

Hmmm.... no comment.

[Dark Samurai]

To each his own, I guess...

[Canyarion]

Make yourself a cup of relaxing tea.

But yeah, you make some points.

[Neo]

I keep on having high hopes for Nintendo, and they continue to dash them all to Hell. The more I hear about the Revolution, the more I am reminded that Nintendo is just blind to the direction videogames are going, or even basic marketing sense.

Nintendo is in a different camp from Microsoft and Sony. Their products might not appeal to the masses but that isn't necessarily a bad thing.


1) After Nintendo screwed up their launch of the Gamecube, and before everyone starts flaming me please remember that even they admitted they did, Nintendo said they would not allow themselves to be caught in the rear of the gaming bus again. Yet as we see at E3, they are once again behind both MS and Sony. So little to show for the Revolution when MS and Sony are showing so much.


That is certainly true.



2) Dance Dance Revolution... with MARIO. Is there any franchise that Nintendo won't pimp out their most beloved characters to?

It would appear not.

you don't go forward by looking to the past.

Nice

Oh yeah, and everyone loves how "sexy" the Revolution looks, like anyone ever bought a console because it matched their home decor.

I've heard Xbox fans state they bought their console because it matches their home entertainment rig.


I want Nintendo to succeed. I didn't buy a Gamecube so that it would sit in the back of my entertainment center gathering dust, yet there it remains. Nintendo's refusal to create new and exciting properties, and instead concentrate on gimmicky, perpheral driven enterprise (Donkey Konga and the DS Scribble Pad) has done more to alienate casual and even long time gamers than to recruit new ones.


Bongos may not make long-term business sense but I'm glad we have a company willing to try new things.

[Typhoid]

For once, Strangler, I agree with you.

[Perfect Stu]

You make a lot of good points, Strangler.

I basically have 2 problems with Nintendo right now...

a) they love to make people look into the past...and it's almost depressing in a way because I remember how much better Nintendo WAS in the past, as if it's a constant reminder as to how they've lost a step (or two, or three etc.)

b) they're not hitting me on the same wavelength, regarding market type. that's not THEIR problem, they've chosen who they want to target...but it has prevented me from buying any of their systems since N64...and I think a LOT of people are in the same boat as me there

also, I keep thinking that as a first year marketing student I would be able to improve their marketing strategy big time. and that's just sad...

[DarrenMcLeod]

Strangler, you made some great points, but they came off a little rushed because you brought up DK Bongos and DS as bad things, when I think it's great that a company is willing to take risks. Nintendo could've made a 3D portable like PSP (albeit not as sexily designed), and it would've sold. They're trying new things. I like it, many people also like it. Especially the bongos part... how does that affect your outlook on Nintendo? Sony has tons of dance pads and drum sets and stuff... it's great to see that stuff. Also, Nintendo's been doing this for a coon's age anyways.

[KillerGremlin]

I'm fine with Nintendo right now. The way I see, what comes around goes around. I've said it a few times here already, I really don't think Nintendo will survive the long haul. In two or three generations Nintendo will be calling up Sega asking for pointers, and as far as I'm concerned, that's fine. 3 consoles is frickin' ridiculous. I don't have a bottomless budget, and I'm getting tired of this "they each have their strengths" crap. They also have their weaknesses, and that's why I am opting to not get a new console this generation.

Regardless, I love the discussion. And, if I find a compelling enough of a rant, I'll jump in and throw my 2 cents at you. I like were you are going with all this, but, understand that people have been complaining for a while about Nintendo, and it's just a simple process of seeing hardcore fans lose faith in their beloved company.

In terms of this year's E3, Nintendo might pull a surprise out of their ass that blows everyone away. Yeah, I'm skeptical. I'm a cynical asshole though, so I'd advise you to not listen to or quote me.

All in all, I've been gaming for a really long time. And, the days of sitting in my friends basement playing Doom on his PC are over. I can't bring back those memories. I've had good memories over the years, and they don't involve pitching near 1000 dollars towards 3 companies just to play games because every console "has it's own advantage." So, if it were up to me, I'd like to see Nintendo anounce that they are going 3rd party for their big E3 surprise. It won't happen.

[Stonecutter]

I keep on having high hopes for Nintendo, and they continue to dash them all to Hell. The more I hear about the Revolution, the more I am reminded that Nintendo is just blind to the direction videogames are going, or even basic marketing sense.

1) After Nintendo screwed up their launch of the Gamecube, and before everyone starts flaming me please remember that even they admitted they did, Nintendo said they would not allow themselves to be caught in the rear of the gaming bus again. Yet as we see at E3, they are once again behind both MS and Sony. So little to show for the Revolution when MS and Sony are showing so much.

2) Dance Dance Revolution... with MARIO. Is there any franchise that Nintendo won't pimp out their most beloved characters to? Mario is quickly becoming irrelevant in the gaming world due to Nintendo's abuse of the property. It will only be a matter of time before we see Metroid Chess and Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Shuffleboard.

3) The biggest stink over the Revolution that I've seen is the ability for it to download old Nintendo games from the history of the company, across all of its consoles: Ultimate Backwards Compatibility. Yeah, thats a great gimmick, but you don't go forward by looking to the past. I wish Nintendo would get over its gloried past, and realize that they are quickly on the way to becoming a distant third place gaming platform in the present. Oh yeah, and everyone loves how "sexy" the Revolution looks, like anyone ever bought a console because it matched their home decor.

I want Nintendo to succeed. I didn't buy a Gamecube so that it would sit in the back of my entertainment center gathering dust, yet there it remains. Nintendo's refusal to create new and exciting properties, and instead concentrate on gimmicky, perpheral driven enterprise (Donkey Konga and the DS Scribble Pad) has done more to alienate casual and even long time gamers than to recruit new ones. Initial sales of the first Konga game and DS were positive, but as is shown by the current sales figures, no one cares about a Konga game anymore and the DS is getting bitch slapped by the PSP. And the way that Nintendo is also alienating developers by creating such things as the need for a pair of Congos and a stylus is shown by the number of developers that are flocking to the PSP instead of the DS. Nintendo's hardware innovaltions are their biggest hindrance.

If Nintendo doesn't look at what others are doing right, and what they are doing wrong, then all they will be left with is their blindly loyal hardcore fan base.

Of course, this is merely my humble opinion.


Edit: Woahhhhhhh when it double posted, it chopped off half of my post.

You're absolutely right and you're getting plus repped for this, but you missed what I believe to be the biggest point.


Nintendo is stubborn.

The simply will not give gamers what we want. They tell us what we want and then stuff it down our throats. See Zelda Wind Waker. Only the most fervent, mindless Nintendo sheep liked it at first. Even those who were opened minded didn't really "like" it when it was first announced. Now sure, a lot of people warmed to it and it turned out to be a great game, but does anyone remember what it was liked when that thing was first showed back in 02?

There was so much backlash at the time, I'll bet it cost N 1,000,000 cubes over the life of the system. Extrapolate that number out to games and accessories....

People that were going to buy a cube but didn't get one at launch bought other systems because of Celda. If the Zelda that we're going to get later this year had been released in march 03 Nintendo would have probably sold an extra million or two systems to play that game. This Zelda could have been the gamecube's Halo, but now it's going to come out in the last year of the systems life, and even though everybody that already has a cube is going to buy it, almost no one will be buying a Cube FOR it, and even if they do, they're probably not going to be buying dozens of other games like they might have in the past 18 months if they'd have picked up a realistic Zelda in 03.

Another huge problem is the stuffing the franchises down our throats. Yeah, I want a Zelda, Mario and Metroid game to come out for my Nintendo system, and yeah SSBM, and Mario Golf are great games, and cool franchises, but for the love of god, Mario is whored out to everything now. Look at RE4, that is such an amazing game graphics and gameplay wise. Why hasn't the power of this system been put to use like that more often? I'm not a graphics whore but guess what, 90% of the people who play games ARE, and it is flat out ignorant to suggest that it's OK for Nintendo games to look substandard when the system is capable of so much more. FZero and RE4 prove that the cube can hold its own vs the Xbox in the visuals department but it's rarely tried.

It's a cyclical process. If the games look better, then more people will buy the system and the games, which will allow the developers to be more adventurous because sales are easier to come by, which will lead to more niche games being developed, which will allow more systems to be sold, which will allow more money to be spent on development, which will produce better looking games, which will sell even more systems.

Then there's the DVD, or lack there of. Nobody really gives a **** anymore in 2005 about the DVD player because everyone has a DVD player, but back in 2001 it wasn't nearly as prevalent as it is today. I remember the fanboy scream from back then too. IF YOU WANT SOMETHING THAT PLAYS DVDs BUY A DVD PLAYER. Thank you very much, Watson, now sit down and shut up. It didn't matter to people that the DVD player in the ps2 was ****, and it didn't matter much that to make xbox play dvds you had to hand over an extra 30 beans. What mattered was that they were getting the newest and best gaming system AND A DVD PLAYER! HOLY **** COOL! Not with the cube though. It did keep the cost down, but that didn't factor into as many decisions as "you get a dvd player with it!"

Then there's online play.

Does anyone still want to argue this one?

[gekko]

I keep on having high hopes for Nintendo, and they continue to dash them all to Hell. The more I hear about the Revolution, the more I am reminded that Nintendo is just blind to the direction videogames are going, or even basic marketing sense.

1) After Nintendo screwed up their launch of the Gamecube, and before everyone starts flaming me please remember that even they admitted they did, Nintendo said they would not allow themselves to be caught in the rear of the gaming bus again. Yet as we see at E3, they are once again behind both MS and Sony. So little to show for the Revolution when MS and Sony are showing so much.

2) Dance Dance Revolution... with MARIO. Is there any franchise that Nintendo won't pimp out their most beloved characters to? Mario is quickly becoming irrelevant in the gaming world due to Nintendo's abuse of the property. It will only be a matter of time before we see Metroid Chess and Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Shuffleboard.

3) The biggest stink over the Revolution that I've seen is the ability for it to download old Nintendo games from the history of the company, across all of its consoles: Ultimate Backwards Compatibility. Yeah, thats a great gimmick, but you don't go forward by looking to the past. I wish Nintendo would get over its gloried past, and realize that they are quickly on the way to becoming a distant third place gaming platform in the present. Oh yeah, and everyone loves how "sexy" the Revolution looks, like anyone ever bought a console because it matched their home decor.

I want Nintendo to succeed. I didn't buy a Gamecube so that it would sit in the back of my entertainment center gathering dust, yet there it remains. Nintendo's refusal to create new and exciting properties, and instead concentrate on gimmicky, perpheral driven enterprise (Donkey Konga and the DS Scribble Pad) has done more to alienate casual and even long time gamers than to recruit new ones. Initial sales of the first Konga game and DS were positive, but as is shown by the current sales figures, no one cares about a Konga game anymore and the DS is getting bitch slapped by the PSP. And the way that Nintendo is also alienating developers by creating such things as the need for a pair of Congos and a stylus is shown by the number of developers that are flocking to the PSP instead of the DS. Nintendo's hardware innovaltions are their biggest hindrance.

If Nintendo doesn't look at what others are doing right, and what they are doing wrong, then all they will be left with is their blindly loyal hardcore fan base.

Of course, this is merely my humble opinion.

Right, right, right, and wrong.

You're getting on Nintendo's case for doing nothing wrong. Is there anything wrong with ultimate backwards compatability? No. In fact, this isn't new, it's what Microsoft tried to do with the Live Arcade. Offer retro games that are downloadable. Only difference is Nintendo can offer much better games.

Is there any problem with peripherals? I actually consider it to be one of the greatest things DC had to offer. They brought a completely different gaming experience to your home, by offering an assortment of peripherals to include fishing rods, arcade sticks, steering wheels, keyboards, mice, light guns, maracas, and more with most avaliable from launch or shortly after. Peripherals are a great way to bring a unique experience to the home console, as well as offer an in-home port of popular arcade games.

If all Nintendo brings to the table is this, then there is a problem. But don't get on their case for offering it.

[Xantar]

Being as we still don't know anything about the Revolution, I think it's pretty premature to bash them. And I'm not saying this just as a Nintendo fan. I wouldn't have bashed Microsoft or Sony if they hadn't shown their next generation consoles either. Personally, I just don't care about the next generation. It's offering nothing new to me except prettier graphics, but that's not going to be enough for me to fork over several hundred dollars.

You can criticize Nintendo for not hyping up the Revolution enough (although there's the whole Thursdayton thing to worry about), but I say we should wait until we actually know something about their plans before we worry. In the grand scheme of things, E3 isn't even really very important. Lots of people think Nintendo had the best show of them all at the last E3, and look what that did for them.

Oh by the way, the PSP is not in fact bitchslapping the DS. The PSP seems to have lost a lot of momentum, actually, and it didn't even have all that strong a launch to begin with by Sony's standards. Right now, thanks to Nintendogs, the DS is leaving the PSP in the dust in Japan. Whether that will happen in the U.S. is another story, but right now, I'm not worried about it.

Oh and incidentally, since when did you know what the gamers want?

[Stray_Bullet]

Is there any problem with peripherals? I actually consider it to be one of the greatest things DC had to offer. They brought a completely different gaming experience to your home, by offering an assortment of peripherals to include fishing rods, arcade sticks, steering wheels, keyboards, mice, light guns, maracas, and more with most avaliable from launch or shortly after. Peripherals are a great way to bring a unique experience to the home console, as well as offer an in-home port of popular arcade games.

And as we have seen from past trial and error, that definately sells. It is the reason why Dreamcast was the #1 system of its time. Of course... its time just happened to be between generations. :sneaky:

[DarrenMcLeod]

Xantar is right about E3 meaning very little. Nintendo has "won" the show many times in the last few years, and the show is in the US, but GameCube did the worst in North America out of the three systems. Ask all of your Halo/GTA/Madden loving jocks what they thought of E3, or the seven year old kid who loves Pokemon. They won't know what the hell you're talking about, but that's the main part of the market right there.

[gekko]

Who cares if it sells?

That's the problem with gaming today, it's too business oriented. It's not about fun and entertainment, it's about sales. Sega wasn't worried about sales when it released games that had you talking to fish, slaughtering zombies with a keyboard, and dancing with maracas. Capcom wasn't worried about sales when they released a $200 game with the world's largest controller, and followed it up with an online-only sequel to further limit sales.

It all makes perfect sense if you look at it. Nintendo may trail in sales, but they have a loyal following. Sega may be all but dead, but the Sega still has a cult following. Apple owns 5% of the marketshare, yet they have a huge following. There's two different types of companies, the ones that care only about the money, and the ones that are passionate about what they do. Just as Apple continued raking in huge profits, they continue to only hold 5% of the market. Yet, they don't care, they go to work making better products. The result? I'd be hard-pressed to find another company with as high of a customer satisfaction rate as Apple.

I see Nintendo taking the same path. They have never had a money issue, since I don't think they ever reported a loss, even at the console's launch. They may not sell, they may not dominate the industry again, but as long as they keep delivering a better gaming experience, their cult following will be there, standing by their side, waiting for whatever might come next.

The gaming industry has always been run by people who enjoy games. Today that passion has been lost to business practices. Is it any wonder that I get bored to death by today's blockbuster titles like Gran Turismo, Metal Gear Solid, Grand Theft Auto, Halo and Metroid, yet I am anxiously awaiting returning to my room so I can continue playing Alien Hominid?

3 brand new consoles have just been announced. For the first time in my life, I am not looking forward to them, and I'm not the only one. So much for those sales.

[Professor S]

Many good points made by all, I'll hit on a few since there was just so much good discussion going on here.

Stonecutter - Nintendo is stubborn, but I also think they have become arrogant. A commentator on G4 today actually made a good point (unbelieveable, right?). He said that Nintendo seems to think that what Japanese gamers want is what Western gamers want, when the style of games each prefer are very different.

Gekko - There is a big problem with Peripherals... they don't sell games, and developers don't like to be forced to devlop according to their specifications. Donkey Konga, while I've never played it, does seem like a fun game. The problem is, the congos are good for one type of game... a congo game. Thats not attractive to developers and in the end I think that type of specific innovation lends itself to an initial interest through the public, but it wanes as the "fad" passes. Yes, it is experimental and I applaud them for that, but I don't think it makes much business sense. I'm looking at this from the point of a former marketing professional as well as an avid gamer. If the games don't sell, there is no innovation because there is no business. Gaming companies, even Nintendo, are in the BUSINESS of video games. They are not the Medici family of gaming, and need to make games that will sell and gain mainstream attention if they want to compete in the next generation. They also need a marketing overhaul, but thats a post for another thread.

Xantar - Part of my problem with Nintendo is that we don't know very much about the Revolution, and that is a problem for them, at least in the West. You say I can't "bash" them when we don't know much about their system. I say I CAN "bash" them BECAUSE we don't know enough about their system. In fact, thats my biggest frustration with Nintendo, beyond their whoring of Mario and other beloved charaters. The DS may be doing well in Japan, but I don't live in Japan and neither do 90% of the gamers across the globe. I wish Nintendo would recognize this. As for me knowing what gamers want...

1) Nintendo was once the great powerhouse in gaming, right? They seemed nearly unbeatable, right? Well, something had to happened to send them to #3.

2) Former marketing pro, here (now a poor man in school to become a teaher). I know a little something about the subject.

3) Read the posts by other avid gamers in this thread. It wasn't so long ago that I would have been flamed to death for the most minor of criticisms over a Nintendo product. Now I get +repped for it and it starts a meaningful discussion. It appears gamers are starting to agree with my POV, or are at least willing to see the other side of things.

4) I did say that this was merely my opinion at the end of the post.

5) I am the all knowing and all powerful OZ, mother****er. You KNOW this and best RECOGNIZE. Word up. ;) :D



Once again, all opinions expressed in this post are those of The Strangler, and not necessarily (but should be) the opinion of Gametavern or its staff members

[MuGen]

Strangler, I've a new found respect for your perspective on things. And although it may seem apparent that I'm not a Nintendo fan, I agree with your statements... Nintendo is looking into a future that consists of them in the back row....

On Another note... [[ I'm sick and tired of people complaining about where games have gone. From Fun and Entertainment to All About the Money? What the f*ck is that? SHUT UP.... Everything up to this point has been about the money.... They NEED the money to deliver those types of games to you. W/O MONEY they wouldn't be able to deliver anything..

There are developers who make games for the quick penny, but those games usually bomb.
There are developers who enjoy making the games.... BUT.... they will make the game really good and have a good story and good gameplay..... BECAUSE they think that approach will earn them more money.

Everything is about money.... you can't say gaming used to be just about fun and entertainment... ]]

[CamFu]

:rolleyes: Great, another NINTENDO IS DOOMED!!11!! Thread :rolleyes:


1) After Nintendo screwed up their launch of the Gamecube, and before everyone starts flaming me please remember that even they admitted they did, Nintendo said they would not allow themselves to be caught in the rear of the gaming bus again. Yet as we see at E3, they are once again behind both MS and Sony. So little to show for the Revolution when MS and Sony are showing so much.

Behind, how? You mean because they didn't show off what their "super computer" can do with graphics? What would they have shown? Metroid, Mario, Zelda... Pikimin. What ever they would have shown would have been Nintendo and people would have cried about that. Wanting their new IPs from Nintendo. The gaming community in general have this kind of personal vendetta against Nintendo. They want new IPs, but are pumped up for GTA4 and DMC4. Blows my mind.

You know who is making the CPU & GPU. Both are well respected companies in this industry. Does the Gaming World think that Nintendo is actually going to release a console with such horrible graphics that it won't be able to compete with Sony or Microsoft? They have always had graphics on their systems to "wow" about. The Rev is going to be no different. Did people really need to see that?

Crash and I were talking the other day, and he brought up a good point. Something that I didn't even think of. What if Nintendo just decided to let Sony and Microsoft battle out their little "pretty picture" war, then slam us with what the Rev can do... Both in Specs (including Graphics) and Controller. Not saying that would happen, but it's a tactic to keep in the back of the mind. Nintendo is always known for their surprises, good or bad. Always. Celda anybody?


2) Dance Dance Revolution... with MARIO. Is there any franchise that Nintendo won't pimp out their most beloved characters to? Mario is quickly becoming irrelevant in the gaming world due to Nintendo's abuse of the property. It will only be a matter of time before we see Metroid Chess and Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Shuffleboard.

Mario is a whore, what can you do. He makes Nintendo a lot of money everytime he appears on something. So be it. Mario = $$$. I don't see how that is a bad thing.

3) The biggest stink over the Revolution that I've seen is the ability for it to download old Nintendo games from the history of the company, across all of its consoles: Ultimate Backwards Compatibility. Yeah, thats a great gimmick, but you don't go forward by looking to the past. I wish Nintendo would get over its gloried past, and realize that they are quickly on the way to becoming a distant third place gaming platform in the present. Oh yeah, and everyone loves how "sexy" the Revolution looks, like anyone ever bought a console because it matched their home decor.

What is up with this word? Man, everything Nintendo does is a "gimmick". DS, Bongo, Mic (w/Mario Party), GBC/GBA connectivity, etc... Yet when Sony comes out with these things, it's not a gimmick... it's AWESOME. Aka.. the EyeToy, PSP/PS3 connectivity, headset for SOCOM.

I know plenty of people that though the GC just looked stupid. Was it a reason they didn't buy it. Most likely. In America Your Image is EVERYTHING. LOL We are so vain.

Again, I will go back and say (not anybody here personally, unless the shoe fits), the Gaming Community has a personal vendetta against Nintendo. They have been in Business for over a 100 years. I'm sure the card business got pretty cut throat at time.

As for being in 3rd place... why don't you go down the list all the companies that have tried to enter this market and have failed. They will always be trying to gain more market, but some people are making this whole 1st, 2nd, 3rd race out to be a bigger deal then it really is.

[MuGen]

CamFu... I never realized how horrible of a fanboy you really are.... These are Strangler's opinions and his issues with Nintendo... it's supposed to spark discussion not you scorning his statements because you don't agree with him...

[Dyne]

Don't take it so harshly Kyuzo. Nobody's really getting scorned in this thread. Take the goggles off for a minute.

This is the best E3 topic we have right now.

[MuGen]

I'm not really taking it harshly...... This was my chance to jump on top of a fanboy like it's done to me.... and it's a good feeling..

[Professor S]

CamFu, the hardcore gaming public, at least I think, has always been in Nintendo's camp. Nintendo has the most hardcore audience, which used to include me. I have owned every Nintendo console, except for the SuperNintendo (that was during my all consuming "Genesis faze"). I rememebvr my hands getting blistered from playing a brand new copy of Mario Bros on the 8-bit and gleefully jerking my atari controller around with Donkey Kong on the old Atari. I love, or at least used to love, Nintendo.

But they need to face facts, and honestly so do you. This conspiracy theory of your doesn't hold much water and it smacks of someone trying to create answers when he doesn't like the questions that are being asked.

I'm getting a little too heavily involved in this discussion, so I'm going to retire for the night.

[CamFu]

You know whats funny, it just depends on what mood I'm in that day. He pointed out opinions, I disagreed with them. Nothing was meant personal, and if it was that's my bad. I never said his name... notice how I put Gaming Community or Gaming Public or whatever. Because these are not "new" arguements. They are just the same gripes you get from Boards all across the internet. But if I'm a fan boy... thats cool too. I've been called a whole lot worse. ;)

[BreakABone]

CamFu... I never realized how horrible of a fanboy you really are.... These are Strangler's opinions and his issues with Nintendo... it's supposed to spark discussion not you scorning his statements because you don't agree with him...

So wouldn't offering counterpoints and your own point of view be concerned discussion? :confused:

[CamFu]

But they need to face facts, and honestly so do you. This conspiracy theory of your doesn't hold much water and it smacks of someone trying to create answers when he doesn't like the questions that are being asked.

Ok, you lost me with this comment. Face what facts? I'm not in the industry, I don't know what goes on behind closed doors. I don't run a multimillion dollar business. I know that I wouldn't want that kind of responsibility right now (somebody when I have my millions I will). But there are really no facts out there other then Nintendo is making money. Be it from just their first party games and their GB Side of the house. That is why they are still in business. That is why they will still be here for years to come. Those are the facts.

And for the "conspiracy theory" that doesn't hold water? Are you talking about the tactic that I gave an example of? If you are, ok, you are getting into this discussion a little too much. I didn't use that as something that I would base anything off of. I just brought it up because I thought it was a good idea. Geez.

And if anything, personally I think it would be insane if Nintendo just ignored their past. It's something they can't ignore, it's what makes them who they are today.

How did this turn so ugly... so quickly?

[DarrenMcLeod]

J Allard and Reggie Fils-Aime are fanboys.

[Professor S]

CamFu, the conspiracy theory I was referring to was the "personal vendetta against Nintendo" when referring to people who criticize Nintendo's moves. My opinions are not personal, beyond my own frustration and disappointment with their current and seemingly future product.

As for the "facing facts " comment, I was using it in the context of common nomenclature, not really as a reference to legitimate facts. I was more saying that the observations I made were pretty obvious, IMO, and you seemed to prefer to believe that those that criticize Nintendo have a vendetta against them, instead of having legitimate gripes. But it is true, I should not have used the term "face facts" in my comment.

Now I'm REALLY retiring from this discussion for the night, as I'm quickly becoming too drunk to type. Damn you Vodka... vile spirit. :D

[CamFu]

CamFu, the conspiracy theory I was referring to was the "personal vendetta against Nintendo" when referring to people who criticize Nintendo's moves. My opinions are not personal, beyond my own frustration and disappointment with their current and seemingly future product.

As for the "facing facts " comment, I was using it in the context of common nomenclature, not really as a reference to legitimate facts. I was more saying that the observations I made were pretty obvious, IMO, and you seemed to prefer to believe that those that criticize Nintendo have a vendetta against them, instead of having legitimate gripes. But it is true, I should not have used the term "face facts" in my comment.

Now I'm REALLY retiring from this discussion for the night, as I'm quickly becoming too drunk to type. Damn you Vodka... vile spirit. :D

See Gentlemen (and Ladies) this is why I hardly post. I get to much into. I have to get up for work in like 4 1/2 hours. Yet, here I am posting. Will I never learn?

The only reason I use the word "vendetta" is because I have met so many people in my life that have their "Playstation" and just disregard Nintendo/Sega/Atari/Microsoft like their nothing. Do I really care? No, not really. I'm not refering the gamers that remember the day they used to be made fun of because they play video games. I'm talking about the Gaming Community Today.

I can tell you stories that would bore your head off from people that just dislike Nintendo because the "know" it's for kiddies. Ok, just one quick story. You forced it out of me.

There I am, playing Madden 2005. Lovin' every minute of it. Playing it on my GC and using my Wavebird, so dude walks into my room and sees me playing Madden. Starts talking trash. I ignore him, but then he notices that there are no wires. He can't even see the "Playstation 2". I tell him that it's because it's a GameCube and the controller is wireless. He shuns it off, and tells me he is surprised that a Nintendo System can make sure good graphics. He actually thought Nintendo didn't make anything bud kiddie games. Does he want to try it, nope. Because it's Nintendo. If I had the PS2 set up, the dude would have sat right now.

That is where my opinion of the whole vendetta comes from.

[Xantar]

Well, what does it mean to be in third place?

Number of consoles sold? Ok, I suppose I can buy that, but how important is that?

Amount of money made? This being a business, is that what's really the most important? Well, Nintendo's not in third place there.

If there's anybody who has some hard facts to deal with, it's Microsoft. They're going to have a hard time making money any time soon. After posting a profit for one quarter not too long ago, they went back to losing even more money than usual. Sure, Microsoft has deep pockets, but they didn't get to be giants by losing money for decades in a venture. And truth to tell, I'm not so sure the Xbox 360 is going to pull Microsoft out of the rut either. It seems to have gotten rather overshadowed by the PS3, and in this generation, Microsoft isn't going to have the clearly most powerful console (note, I don't know which console is most powerful, but there's no clear winner which is really the point). Meantime, Sony can lower the price of the PS3 and force Microsoft down whenever they feel like it just like they did in this generation. So where's Microsoft going to make the money? Some day down the road a few generations from now? A lot of things change in that amount of time.

Nintendo is doing fine businesswise, meanwhile. Incidentally, the DS sold 2 million units as of April 20th (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=8137) and the PSP sold half a million as of March 31st (http://money.cnn.com/2005/03/31/technology/personaltech/psp_sales/). There's no more up to date data available, unfortunately. And yes it's true that the DS had a head start (although by the same token, so did the PS2). My point is simply that the DS isn't clearly getting creamed in the U.S. by the PSP either.

Now a word about FuFu's vendetta: I think his point was that even if Nintendo had showed a lot about the Revolution, people would have jumped on them for showing Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Smash Bros. and so on. That's not all that Nintendo shows (in fact, they had a lot of stuff in this E3 that wasn't one of their big three franchises), but it's what people notice. So if they had shown the Revolution with all their franchise characters, many people (and I think you, too) would have criticized them for relying too much on their franchises and not looking forward enough. They would have looked at the Mario platformer and said, "Same old, same old. Get something new." And if Mario and Zelda had been nowhere in sight, other people would have complained about how Nintendo isn't giving the fans what they want. And since they didn't actually show much about the Revolution, people also complained. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

It's not a conspiracy. It's just that people are always looking out for things to criticize about Nintendo. And meantime, nobody complains about the fact that the PS3 is going to have Metal Gear Solid 4, Devil May Cry 4, Gran Turismo 5, and Tekken 6. Not that I think they necessarily should. But there seems to be a bit of a double standard going on here.

I really don't know that Nintendo could do anything to satisfy someone like you except perhaps become a clone of Sony. But they can't do that, nor do I think they should. Microsoft is trying to beat Sony at their own game, and all they've gotten out of it is a several billion dollar loss. Sure, now they've gotten their name out there. What's that worth in an industry that moves as fast as this one? I'm sure Nintendo has known for a long time that people like you wouldn't be happy with what they're doing, and I'm also sure that they've calculated that their bottom line will do just fine nonetheless. And I'm also sure that if they started trying to do everything that Sony is doing with multimedia functions and revealing information about everything and trying to outpower the competitors, it wouldn't gain them a thing. The industry just doesn't work that way.