Occupy Wallstreet

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Typhoid

And on the other hand, the business owners getting all "well maybe I'll just close my business down and then fire 150 people. Let's see what that does." Very fucking mature, rich Dempublicrats. "If you raise my taxes, I'll quit!".

That is the new American way. Fuck all that "American ingenuity and stick-to-it-ivness". Now it's good 'ol fashioned "American taking your ball and going home."

At least you're always fair when talking about America

Businesses look at every expenditure as a cost. Taxes are simply another line item that needs to be accounted for. If you raise taxes on a business they are left with only a few ways to make up the loss:

1) Increase the cost of their product or service
2) Reduce profits to owners/investors
3) Reduce compensation to employees or reduce unneeded employment

The third option will always be preferred because 1 and 2 can be disastrous for a company (just ask NetFlix and Bank of America). Remove emotion from the equation. Businesses employ for one reason: They need the employee to maximize their profit potential. Any other reason is nonsensical and irrelevant because it is not based in reality.

So we're left with a simple choice: Govern out of anger, fear, and populist policies that do more damage to our economy... or work with reality and help job creators instead of attacking them publicly and through policy.

And for the record, Canada has a lower corporate tax rate than the US, and I believe they are looking to lower it further, but you'd know better than I.

[Typhoid]

Pre edit edit: In all seriousness, don't take me the wrong way. I'm just attempting to have a face-to-face conversation over text, not start some argument or derail a thread or anything.

At least you're always fair when talking about America

You take me far too seriously when I say ridiculous things, then don't take me seriously at all when I say things that should have worth and value.

I seriously do think the Occupy _____ is a waste of time. If those people want change, educate themselves. Take proper steps, you know.

And for the record, Canada has a lower corporate tax rate than the US, and I believe they are looking to lower it further, but you'd know better than I.

What I simply meant was that the Occupy Vancouver/Toronto started because of Occupy Wall Street. What harms you doesn't [necessarily] directly effect us in the same way. This is why our dollar has gained on the US dollar, and surpassed it a number of times. Albeit by pennies, but still. If we were directly tied, our dollar would have stayed well-below the American dollar. Instead we've constantly been creeping up to parity, and [slightly] surpassing it.

I'm not oblivious to the fact that our countries are indeed symbiotic, at least on our end - however what disturbs me is that the people occupying areas in Canadian cities are seemingly oblivious to the fact that in the end, it might harm us as a country. We are not the US. It's fine and dandy that your people are fighting for social change and I'm all for that. Wealth should indeed be shared in a broader bracket. But my people shouldn't have to fight for your social change. All or nothing. If my people are going to Occupy Vancouver so that your people get their message heard louder, my people (hell, yours, too) should also have some riots going for Greece and all that euro bullshit. This is a joke. I do not think they should do that.

The reason we in Canada probably have/need a smaller corporate tax rate (I'm currently trying to find the rate itself) is because we have 1/10th the population, therefore we have (let's assume) 1/10th the corporations. Being that corporations do indeed actually create jobs with some form of wealth in a centralized location (A city, opposed to rural people with rural jobs), we want to entice more of them to come here. The way you do that is to lower taxes. And I can see them lowering it a little more in Canada, with the talk of raising American corprorate tax rates, because then some corporations will surely (I assume is the goal) come north and set up here, and hire Canadians.


I'm not going to break this down, but just because I was looking for it, just a little quip:

American: Federal tax rates on corporate taxable income vary from 15% to 35%.

The basic rate of Part I tax is 38% of your taxable income, 28% after federal tax abatement.

For Canadian-controlled private corporations claiming the small business deduction, the net tax rate is 11%.

For the other corporations, the net tax rate is decreased as follows:

19% effective January 1, 2009
18% effective January 1, 2010
16.5% effective January 1, 2011

Edit: After wikipedia-ing, I found this lovely string of hilarious things.

Occupy Wall Street (OWS) is an ongoing series of demonstrations in New York City based in Zuccotti Park in the Wall Street financial district. The protests were initiated by the Canadian activist group Adbusters.

The Adbusters Media Foundation is a Canadian-based not-for-profit, anti-consumerist, pro-environment[1] organization founded in 1989 by Kalle Lasn and Bill Schmalz in Vancouver, British Columbia.

The foundation describes itself as "a global network of artists, activists, writers, pranksters, students, educators and entrepreneurs who want to advance the new social activist movement of the information age."

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Typhoid

The reason we in Canada probably have/need a smaller corporate tax rate (I'm currently trying to find the rate itself) is because we have 1/10th the population, therefore we have (let's assume) 1/10th the corporations. Being that corporations do indeed actually create jobs with some form of wealth in a centralized location (A city, opposed to rural people with rural jobs), we want to entice more of them to come here. The way you do that is to lower taxes. And I can see them lowering it a little more in Canada, with the talk of raising American corprorate tax rates, because then some corporations will surely (I assume is the goal) come north and set up here, and hire Canadians.

So why does it make sense for Canada to lower taxes to attract jobs, but when American companies complain about high corporate taxes it's:

And on the other hand, the business owners getting all "well maybe I'll just close my business down and then fire 150 people. Let's see what that does." Very fucking mature, rich Dempublicrats. "If you raise my taxes, I'll quit!".

That is the new American way. Fuck all that "American ingenuity and stick-to-it-ivness". Now it's good 'ol fashioned "American taking your ball and going home."

Logically, it makes sense for Canada to have low taxes to attract businesses. Logically, it makes sense for America to lower taxes to attract businesses. I fail to see why what is good for the goose fails to be good for the gander.

[Typhoid]

So why does it make sense for Canada to lower taxes to attract jobs, but when American companies complain about high corporate taxes it's:

Like I said, when I'm joking you take me far too seriously, and when I'm not joking you don't take me seriously at all.

That whole "This is the new american way" thing was a joke. Stop focusing on that. I just found it disgusting that a small few American business owners have that mentality because it's such a childish way of thinking. Obviously I don't think every business owner is like that, nor that most people think that way. I'm not dumb, just bored.

Logically, it makes sense for Canada to have low taxes to attract businesses. Logically, it makes sense for America to lower taxes to attract businesses. I fail to see why what is good for the goose fails to be good for the gander.

I never said it didn't make sense for the US to have low taxes to attract jobs. That sort of speaks for itself. Low taxes attract whatever is taxed low. You brought up Canada having lower corporate taxes in comparison, so I was just stating my opinion on why I think Canadian corporate taxes are lower than the US'.
No matter what your tax is, it makes sense for ours to be lower in order to attract your jobs, because your jobs will not only employ our people, but they will also bring some of yours. I'm not saying that's not a schemey way of doing things; essentially trying to coax people over the border with high-paying jobs and international connections - but it just makes sense.
Even if your country removed all corporate tax, my country would probably start some rebate campaign for American business owners to bring their companies north. That was a joke. Although it probably would happen if that impossible scenario ever existed.


Besides, what you were trying to bring up doesn't even really make sense to me right now.
American business owners are complaining that Americans want to raise taxes on American businesses, and you're asking why I think it makes sense for Canada to lower corporate tax to steal away the pissed-off business owners [the ones who'd would fire 150 American jobs per company]? I don't understand what you were trying to probe me on, in your post. Honestly, I don't.

[Bond]

I'm a little confused as to where this is going, but the point that Canada has lower corporate tax rates than America (did not fact check that) to attract jobs analogy holds true for any country. Having a lower tax rate than a neighbor will always be looked at as a plus when businesses evaluate where to hire and build. There are other factors though as well, of course. The American dollar is the reserve currency of the world, even more so now after the financial collapse. That, is perhaps the single biggest advantage to doing business in the American dollar.

I would also say, perhaps somewhat provactively, that Canada is able to have a lower corproate tax rate because you have a lower defense budget and needs than we do (and in turn need to levy less revenue). You're probably going to say being our neighbor has its downsides, many of which I would agree with, but the pros far outweigh the cons.

[Typhoid]

You're probably going to say being our neighbor has its downsides, many of which I would agree with, but the pros far outweigh the cons.

I'm not arguing otherwise. In fact I pretty much agree 100%. Nothing that makes me think "Man, fuck those guys.", just as I'd think there's nothing about being South of Canada that makes Americans say "Man, Fuck those guys." There aren't many downsides other than cultural influence (But even then, who the fuck cares). But we even have laws to counteract American influence. (CanCon for example. Radio stations have to dedicate at least 30% of it's music to Canadian Musicians in everything they play.)

Don't get me wrong, I've never said I've had any qualms with living North of the US, nor am I really negative to the country itself, and rather the corruption that resides within it. But again, to be fair - I don't like corruption in general. it's not like when it happens in Canada I turn a blind eye to how much it disgusts me that people are capable of being so greedy; but we're just overflowing with your news channels. And it's much, much easier to critique another country than your own. ;P I'm well aware that my country is practically equally as bureaucratic and corrupt. Our leaders in Canada love their committees and paperwork.

Plus Your military means I don't need a big one. I enjoy that. It means we can spend our money on things like healthcare, and poor people.


But this has gotten way, way off-topic. My bad.