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Re: 2012 Presidential Election Thread
Old 11-09-2012, 10:15 AM   #46
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Default Re: 2012 Presidential Election Thread

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Re: 2012 Presidential Election Thread
Old 11-09-2012, 06:46 PM   #47
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Default Re: 2012 Presidential Election Thread

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Re: 2012 Presidential Election Thread
Old 11-09-2012, 07:38 PM   #48
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Default Re: 2012 Presidential Election Thread

While I disagree with Cenk that Romney was "crushed" (I still don't get that narrative from the left), I agree that the Republican party needs to become more socially liberal if they want to remain relevant. Demographics have changed, and the new voter will not stand for candidates or a party that won't move with them culturally.

To do list for the GOP

- Accept gay marriage
- Promote practical and welcoming immigration reform
- Come to the middle on abortion (but remain strongly against late term)
- Move from idealistic taxation stances. Namely, if you get an honest 10 to 1 deal on spending cuts vs tax increases, TAKE IT (just make sure the are tied to the cuts). But remain strongly against punitive progressive policies that hurt revenue and private investment.
- Reform existing regulation instead of moving to repeal it.
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Re: 2012 Presidential Election Thread
Old 11-09-2012, 09:53 PM   #49
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Exclamation Re: 2012 Presidential Election Thread

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Originally Posted by Professor S View Post
While I disagree with Cenk that Romney was "crushed" (I still don't get that narrative from the left), I agree that the Republican party needs to become more socially liberal if they want to remain relevant. Demographics have changed, and the new voter will not stand for candidates or a party that won't move with them culturally.

To do list for the GOP

- Accept gay marriage
- Promote practical and welcoming immigration reform
- Come to the middle on abortion (but remain strongly against late term)
- Move from idealistic taxation stances. Namely, if you get an honest 10 to 1 deal on spending cuts vs tax increases, TAKE IT (just make sure the are tied to the cuts). But remain strongly against punitive progressive policies that hurt revenue and private investment.
- Reform existing regulation instead of moving to repeal it.
A Republican like that could even sway me. I really hope we get a good candidate next time around. I want to feel conflicted.
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Re: 2012 Presidential Election Thread
Old 11-09-2012, 10:17 PM   #50
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Default Re: 2012 Presidential Election Thread

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Originally Posted by Professor S View Post
While I disagree with Cenk that Romney was "crushed" (I still don't get that narrative from the left), I agree that the Republican party needs to become more socially liberal if they want to remain relevant. Demographics have changed, and the new voter will not stand for candidates or a party that won't move with them culturally.

To do list for the GOP

- Accept gay marriage
- Promote practical and welcoming immigration reform
- Come to the middle on abortion (but remain strongly against late term)
- Move from idealistic taxation stances. Namely, if you get an honest 10 to 1 deal on spending cuts vs tax increases, TAKE IT (just make sure the are tied to the cuts). But remain strongly against punitive progressive policies that hurt revenue and private investment.
- Reform existing regulation instead of moving to repeal it.
It sucks how many people vote based on the emotions or being against gay marriage and being pro life. -___- If they make those changes, they need to be careful about it. They need to separate what their personal beliefs are from what they believe is best for the country.

For example gay marriage... they should take it right out of Obama's playbook. Say your personal belief is that marriage is between a man and woman, but also support equal rights for gay and lesbian couples, and explain yourself. That would force democrats to go even more 'left' on the issue to keep their gay and lesbian base, and make the republican base reject them... or it would neutralize the issue.

Or on abortion... Republicans can say they're personally pro life. And they would hope that everyone would make the 'choice' to have the children, then turn around and state that they’re not going to force their beliefs on others, and state that they're not looking to overturn any of these laws... or something like that... and yes, stay against late term abortion.

Immigration is a big issue too. I'm not sure about how they could change their stance without at least rattling their base.

As for taxes... until people forget about Bush, across the board tax cuts, or any type of cuts for the top 5% will be unpopular. Sometimes you just have to cut your losses and accept the popular position on things. If the model of empowering the middle/lower class fails, then that's when you go back and point out how well your old system works. Yes, if you truly believe in 'trickle down' economics, it is a very bad thing to put the economy in danger just to give the people what they want... but there really isn't a choice now, it failed and democrats will play on that until their own system fails.

The Democratic Party right now is way more conservative than it used to be in my opinion. And as they moved to the right, they republican party moved even further to the right to keep their identity separate. I think it's time for the republicans to start moving to the left, and forcing the democrats to start being more aggressively trying to appeal to their base.
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Re: 2012 Presidential Election Thread
Old 11-09-2012, 11:46 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Vampyr View Post
A Republican like that could even sway me. I really hope we get a good candidate next time around. I want to feel conflicted.
That's thing -- all of us probably agree more than we disagree ... we just turn our vote on different issues.
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Re: 2012 Presidential Election Thread
Old 11-09-2012, 11:58 PM   #52
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Default Re: 2012 Presidential Election Thread

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Originally Posted by TheGame View Post
As for taxes... until people forget about Bush, across the board tax cuts, or any type of cuts for the top 5% will be unpopular. Sometimes you just have to cut your losses and accept the popular position on things. If the model of empowering the middle/lower class fails, then that's when you go back and point out how well your old system works. Yes, if you truly believe in 'trickle down' economics, it is a very bad thing to put the economy in danger just to give the people what they want... but there really isn't a choice now, it failed and democrats will play on that until their own system fails.
The main problem with tax policy is that what makes for great policy makes horrible politics. Example: I'm a strong proponent of a progressive flat tax for income. Every dollar earned up to $35 - 40k is taxed at a low rate, maybe 5%., or not at all. Then every dollar earned above $40k us taxed at 25-30%, and that's that. This way the more you earn, the higher percentage of your income taxed at the higher rate. Someone who earns $50k only have $10k taxed, while someone who earns $140k have $100l taxed. Simple, easy, and no loopholes outside of charitable donations and maybe average home mortgages.

You may say: Well what about the super rich? The super rich don't pay earned income tax; they pay taxes on dividends and capital gains because while they don't work, the money they already earned (and paid income taxes on) does. Now we could tax this at a higher rate, but history shows this not only chases money away from investment (vital to the economy), but it also reduces the revenue derived from these taxes. It's a tricky balance between rates, participation, and revenue.

Now, take the content of those two paragraphs and challenge any politician to explain them in a debate, especially primary debates where you get 30 seconds to create a soundbite for 24/7 news media obsessed with tickling people's ballsacks instead of real news. This is why we get simplistic bullshit like "999" or "pay their fair share".
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Re: 2012 Presidential Election Thread
Old 11-10-2012, 03:35 AM   #53
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Default Re: 2012 Presidential Election Thread

....Wow...

VERY VERY NSFW

http://youtu.be/wLoqti0lzAw

I think the best part is when she blames Sarah Palin for Republicans losing the election because she didnt run.
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Re: 2012 Presidential Election Thread
Old 11-10-2012, 11:39 AM   #54
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Default Re: 2012 Presidential Election Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox 6 View Post
....Wow...

VERY VERY NSFW

http://youtu.be/wLoqti0lzAw

I think the best part is when she blames Sarah Palin for Republicans losing the election because she didnt run.
On the bright side, she finally got people to watch her YouTube videos!
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Re: 2012 Presidential Election Thread
Old 11-10-2012, 12:07 PM   #55
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Default Re: 2012 Presidential Election Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox 6 View Post
....Wow...

VERY VERY NSFW

http://youtu.be/wLoqti0lzAw

I think the best part is when she blames Sarah Palin for Republicans losing the election because she didnt run.
She needs to chill lol
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Re: 2012 Presidential Election Thread
Old 11-10-2012, 12:34 PM   #56
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Default Re: 2012 Presidential Election Thread

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Originally Posted by Professor S View Post
The main problem with tax policy is that what makes for great policy makes horrible politics.
At the end of the day, that's the problem. You explain it in a way that makes sense, then a Democrat will just be like "read between the lines, they want to tax the rich less and someone's going to have to pay for it *coughyoucough*"

I think it'd be better if the party is split on the issue like how democrats are now. But the public and media mainly pay attention to the presidential candidate, so he HAS to take the popular position on it. He can say he understands top down economics, and give a long explanation, but say that he's more in favor of the popular position.

Then when something gets on his table, if it's the popular stance or not, he can say making the change was better than doing nothing. Yeah that's misleading, but that's basically what Obama does. Note how he passed a healthcare bill that he was "against" in many ways as a candidate. That's just playing politics to get what you want... who knows, maybe he honestly didn't want a mandate, maybe he did... but he said he didn't, and that was popular and part of why he got in the position to make that decision.

Look at how the democrats treated Bush when he was president. They gave him just enough to get his agenda through, and it failed. And he got all the blame for it. They should give Obama a hand, and seem reasonable. Staying 100% against him 8 straight years will just result in them losing again because -EDIT- they will just blame all of their short comings and failures on Bush and the Republicans, and take credit for anything that happens good even if nothing changes that directly results in a positive change. "Hey we tried to pass the policy that you guys voted for, but the republicans stood together to block it. Get more of us in office to stop this!"
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Last edited by TheGame : 11-10-2012 at 01:26 PM.
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Re: 2012 Presidential Election Thread
Old 11-10-2012, 04:04 PM   #57
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Default Re: 2012 Presidential Election Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox 6 View Post
....Wow...

VERY VERY NSFW

http://youtu.be/wLoqti0lzAw

I think the best part is when she blames Sarah Palin for Republicans losing the election because she didnt run.
She reminds me of Francis (boogie2988), except serious. XD
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Re: 2012 Presidential Election Thread
Old 11-10-2012, 05:54 PM   #58
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Default Re: 2012 Presidential Election Thread

I will never understand what possesses one to communicate political views on Facebook (or YouTube I guess) ... just seems like a no-win situation to me.
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Re: 2012 Presidential Election Thread
Old 11-10-2012, 06:32 PM   #59
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Default Re: 2012 Presidential Election Thread

This is going to be the most overstated, (stoned and) obvious comment of the year - but you guys need at least another viable party. I think nearly every single political problem with your Republic stems from only having 2 real options.

No country can run on a basis of 2 parties. You get no middle ground. You get no real compromise, no real overlapping issues. You just get black and white. All or nothing. Republican or Democrat; As if you can define every issue that 300 million people have easily into one of those two categories. You can't run a country on ultimatums, that shit isn't right, nor is it remotely politically fair.

Do you really want a country of 300 million people to be run on the campaign of "Vote for me, because I'm not that guy."
Because that's basically what every one of your elections is, and that's no way to pick the leader of a country.

I'm sure so many people on both sides voted for _______ because he wasn't ______; rather than what ________ was saying/thought/felt about ________.

One believes one thing, so the other has to believe the other - because it's the opposite. But with another party in there, each party can form legitimate positions on things that aren't simply because "The other guys think the other way", and each party, and candidate (and voter) can not only stop and think "Wait, how do I feel on this", and can actually express their real political views, opposed to spewing proper trash to garner votes.

Hell, your country is so split down the middle and typically always has been it seems sort of ridiculous to force nearly half of 300 million people to live unhappily with a leader they don't agree with. That's typically why countries fracture in the first place.
You can't rise above things like that if nothing ever changes politically, it will just continue to fracture.

You need more parties and more legitimate candidates not only so your candidates have more outlets for hate and negative ads - but so they can also simply stop being puppets to a two party system.

Ramble ramble rant and such.
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Re: 2012 Presidential Election Thread
Old 11-11-2012, 03:20 PM   #60
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Default Re: 2012 Presidential Election Thread

To answer Mana's question from another thread: My feelings on Pennsylvania being in play were based on exactly that, feeling. Romney had a huge turnout at a rally in Bucks Co PA, but I later learned many of those in attendance were from NJ and NY. It proved a mirage.

That, and I thought Romney would do much better in Philly suburbs than McCain, and he did, but not enough to make a difference.

But overall, this number shocks me: Pres. Obama received 9 million fewer votes this year compared to 2008 (69.4 mil to 58.7 mil). If as many Republicans voted for Romney as they did for McCain (59.9 mil), we'll have a new President Elect. But Romney received nearly 4 million fewer votes. Considering there was a tremendous economic crash in 2008 under Bush, and a demoralized Rep base, I find that fact amazing and the Republican party better take notice.

They had a softball this year, and whiffed.
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