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Re: SOPA
Old 01-19-2012, 08:36 PM   #31
Typhoid
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Default Re: SOPA

I agree 100% that the US trying to Police the planet is pretty fucked up. I mean, it doesn't matter if copyright laws in the US are being broken - because they're being broken in a different country where those laws might not even apply.

How can they not grasp that fucking concept. Jesus.


That would be like strolling into another country and being like "Hey, all those married queer people you have here, yeah - we're making all of those marriages null and void despite the fact it's not our right, and it's your country. Alright. God Bless America."


Edit: Germy, I didn't really mean that record labels have NO value (if this passes). I can still see a lot of people going to a record label if they need the money to record and produce and all that - but in the age of everyone having some type of music editor, and most people believing in their own inherent musical ability - I can just see a lot more people saying "Fuck it", and trying to do it themselves. Sort of like how everyone knows at least 6 people attempting to be a DJ/"Music Producer" because they bought a Mac that had Garageband or something. (I'm not omitting the people who actually take it seriously and put money into it.) But it's so easy to just do it yourself and put it up yourself for them, that everyone is doing it these days. I can see that happening to other genres of music in the future, where the market gets flooded with independent basement bands who'd rather not risk getting sued (or something, I don't know. I'm mostly ramble-ranting.)
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Re: SOPA
Old 01-20-2012, 01:31 AM   #32
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Default Re: SOPA

Here's the root cause that needs to be fixed --

New drugs, that take billions of dollars to create, and which are a huge plus to society -- only get 7 years of exclusive time on the market before it becomes generic. Why then does something like I dunno, old Mickey Mouse films, or more relevant -- old Beatles songs -- created decades ago for a relative pittance, still get copyright protection? What benefit to society is it for us as taxpayers to pay to protect media from decades ago? They've already made their money on it, and it's so entwined with society that it's impossible to not be a criminal when you sing a song out of hand on a Youtube video, or have it playing in the background.

Allow media holders seven years to make their money on it, not decades or infinitum or whatever it is. That would solve the problem right there, and it's fair. Media makers still get to make exclusive money, and society gets the benefit of the media innovation without having to spend money protecting kings of media forever.
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Re: SOPA
Old 01-20-2012, 05:51 PM   #33
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Default Re: SOPA

Sounds like some Lawrence Lessig stuff Mana, and I agree with you. The funniest part about Disney is that all of their "classic" stuff was reappropriated from classic fairy tales, but if you try to touch a Disney character, watch out...Copywrite law is really whacky.

Anyway, there's this pretty sweet news!
http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/20/tech...IPA_postponed/

Hopefully they just drop it.
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Re: SOPA
Old 01-20-2012, 09:28 PM   #34
Bond
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Default Re: SOPA

Apparently a few legislators will attempt to tack it onto an anti-child-pornography bill sometime in the future. Classy.
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Re: SOPA
Old 01-21-2012, 07:10 AM   #35
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Default Re: SOPA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond View Post
Apparently a few legislators will attempt to tack it onto an anti-child-pornography bill sometime in the future. Classy.
Well, if you can't beat 'em, threaten them into opposing a bill that also has anti-child-porn attached to it.
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Re: SOPA
Old 01-21-2012, 01:35 PM   #36
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Default Re: SOPA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Typhoid View Post
Well, if you can't beat 'em, threaten them into opposing a bill that also has anti-child-porn attached to it.
Hopefully the media and people don't act stupid enough to let this slide.

Wait.. all the major media companies support this...

Ahem, hopefully the people aren't stupid enough to let this slide.
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Re: SOPA
Old 01-21-2012, 03:32 PM   #37
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Default Re: SOPA

I don't think they'll let it slide.
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Re: SOPA
Old 01-21-2012, 06:34 PM   #38
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Default Re: SOPA

I hope it doesn't slide, but like I said early in this thread...

Quote:
There are just scary implications with SOPA. Rumor on the street is that SOPA is a guaranteed failure. However, SOPA is going to be attached to the end of some "Stop Online Child Pornography Act" that congress will be unable to vote against (because who is going to vote against stopping child porn).

Ultimately you figure this is going to get passed at some point. SOPA is less interesting to 99% of Americans than the Kardashians.

A part of me feels like this country deserves what it has coming. 80% of the lazy fucks in this country don't vote. So this is what you get. Congress with an all time disapproval rating, and this SOPA bill that is going to end the Internet as we know it.
I stand by that statement. I think most Americans are too preoccupied to care. The fact that SOPA is being called the "anti-piracy" bill by news outlets is upsetting too. So far every news story I have seen makes it sound like people are in favor of piracy...

The only way I see prolonged defeat of the legislation in this bill is if a company like Google:

1) Blacks out ALL their services for a day; no Gmail, no blogspot, no Google Voice, no Android, no hosting, NOTHING

2) Google has a press conference where they discuss how much information they have. Google is a scary entity. They know what type of strange porn you search for, they know about your web browsing habits. But MOST importantly: they also know what strange porn your Congressman looks at. They know what Obama searched for.

Transparency always wins. If Google becomes a transparent entity...then everyone gets their grievances aired our.

Kind of like in Mean Girls.
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Re: SOPA
Old 01-22-2012, 03:00 PM   #39
GiMpY-wAnNaBe
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Default Re: SOPA

I find it legitimately hard to see a happy ending to this process. As defeatist as it may sound, I don't see any reason why pushing this same bill as an attachment to a "stop child pornography act" would fail. However, I do have the utmost faith that the informed will continue to be able to pirate their warez.... always has happened, always will happen. I'm curious to see how individual prosecution for copyright infringement will be carried out outside of U.S. jurisdiction though.....
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Re: SOPA
Old 01-22-2012, 05:11 PM   #40
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Default Re: SOPA

Quote:
Originally Posted by GiMpY-wAnNaBe View Post
I'm curious to see how individual prosecution for copyright infringement will be carried out outside of U.S. jurisdiction though.....

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/01...dition_piracy/
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Re: SOPA
Old 01-22-2012, 05:22 PM   #41
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Default Re: SOPA

Quote:
O’Dwyer is being extradited under controversial laws agreed by Tony Blair in the wake of the September 11 attacks – then billed as essential to the war on terrorism - which are currently being used to try and extradite Gary McKinnon on hacking charges. Under the terms of the deal US authorities have only to show “reasonable suspicion’ of a crime, while UK requests have to come with proof.
....terrifying. Absolutely terrifying.
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Re: SOPA
Old 01-23-2012, 09:39 AM   #42
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Default Re: SOPA

This issue is directly tied to the over-regulation of American business. Gimpy hinted toward the marriage of government and business earlier in another thread, and SOPA and PIPA are just another example of it. Want to wonder why there is a sense of inevitability around this? Because moneyed interests want it to happen.

The only way to prevent things like this from happening is to put a firewall between business and government. You might say this will lead to corporations running the country... but um, isn't that kind of what's happening now when we have more regulations than at any time in US history? Without regulations/government intervention business has no means of forcing individuals to do anything. They have to compete, and create better products quickly and cheaply. The ONLY time business gets past this hard and fast rule is when government uses force to manipulate markets.

While I've never considered myself a fan of completely free markets, the more I see the inevitable effects of regulatory capture, the more I keep changing my mind. If Paul wasn't so myopic, or borderline anti-Semitic, on foreign affairs I'd have a hard time not supporting him.
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Re: SOPA
Old 01-23-2012, 01:19 PM   #43
Professor S
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Default Re: SOPA

As for the problem of intellectual piracy, this is an issue of policing, not prevention.
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Re: SOPA
Old 01-23-2012, 04:56 PM   #44
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Default Re: SOPA

(For the record I basically agree with your entire post, I just don't want to quote the whole thing.)

Quote:
The only way to prevent things like this from happening is to put a firewall between business and government. You might say this will lead to corporations running the country... but um, isn't that kind of what's happening now when we have more regulations than at any time in US history?

I was just having a joking conversation the other day and said "Within the next 10 years considering corporations are people, I can see a company running for President of the US. 'Tyler Perry presents Coca-Cola's United States of America.'"

But the more I think about it, the more I can tangibly see some corporation actually attempting to run for President, and just use the CEO as the figurehead of that corporation, thusly he becomes the one running for President under the name of (company).

I just think someone in the near future (Not mega-near) will probably grow a giant sack overnight and have that "I've got the perfect idea" moment, and then a room of like-minded businessmen (also working for the same company) will inevitably like that idea. I'm sure a few people have tossed the idea around legitimately, but there just haven't been the right amount of yes-men in the room with him at that time.


Unrelated rant:

I hate the stampede to stop piracy of music and movies. A lot of people act as if it's a brand new ideal that just popped up. Like there were never any bootlegged concerts in the 80's/90's, or like nobody recorded sports events or movies from TV as soon as the VCR and blank tapes were invented. How many people taped songs onto a casette from the radio. I'm sure most of our parents (if not us ourselves) probably still have boxes full of (formerly) blank VHS tapes with old cartoon movies or favourite sporting moments from your local (or favourite) sports team on them. Just boxes and boxes of 20-30 year old pirated material that never gets watched. At least when people pirate music/shows nowadays it keeps that show/band relevant. Pirating may be keeping a lot of bands and shows alive a lot longer than it would be if people actually had to pay for the music/Blu-Ray of show.

How many bands started out simply because of some kids illegally downloading one or two tracks that caught on like wildfire. Then that band gets signed, and the people who want to shut down piracy ironically don't really realize that sharing the media, or leaving it there for all to enjoy is the best option for everyone, long-term. Look at Chuck Norris. Old clips of his show from online made him relevant again. Now he endorses bullshit products - but still, because of piracy (technically), he can have a career in the 21st century, and completely random products are more likely to sell because of that.

What about taking a picture of a painting. (I wonder if you could circumvent that if you're taking a picture of someone taking a picture of a painting - or taking a picture of a picture of a painting.)

What bugs me is that some act like nobody buys things, and 100% of people download the music/show/movies for free. Whenever piracy is occurring, no matter what it is - for every pirate you have pirating something, there are 5 times the amount of people (if not more) legally buying your media. So what if 1 kid from white suburbia downloaded 4 tracks from your new CD, what about all of the people who physically bought a copy, or paid for the download. Always focusing on "we're losing so much money", and not "wow, people are still actually willing to pay us for this! We should be grateful we're making a meaningful product for the consumer!" But everything to them is "me me me, money money money. When do I get mine?"

Even look at legitimate pirates from hundreds of years ago. For every pirate you had, you had 5 people who were not pirates. Or the Somali pirates now. For every Somali pirate there is, there's probably at least 8 regular Somali people. Y'arr.
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Re: SOPA
Old 01-23-2012, 05:09 PM   #45
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Default Re: SOPA

You know things are bad when Prof S is rallying for Ron Paul.

I kid, I kid....

I have a few observations, and a couple of questions that I want to ask as launching points for future discussion in this thread. My observation is that we now face a global crisis similar to the Religion vs. Government crisis that resulted in many revolutions in the 1700s and 1800s. The US Constitution is a system of checks and balances that attempts to limit government. I feel like the next big war is going to be a global war where we flush out both politicians and the business folks who pull the strings in politics. We need a separation of Government from Business/Lobbying. This is a topic well beyond my area of expertise...and obviously the Government needs to regulate ethical business practices so that we do not have another Great Depression. But you get the feeling that we need A) Transparency, and B) A law that prohibits conflicts of interest.

What is a conflict of interest? When someone who gets to decide on laws also receives funding that could influence that decision.

The US Political system is bloated beyond belief anyway. You don't need a billion dollars to run for President, or at least you shouldn't. And more importantly...if you are running a business...you shouldn't have elevated influence because you can throw money at a problem. Everyone should have the option to vote equally: whether you are a poor inner-city family or a billionaire CEO of some huge banking company.

My observations/questions:

It seems like the economy is going to get worse again before it gets better. How will that impact the state of government affairs?

There is a myth that the US doesn't manufacture things. That's not true. So I won't even go there. However, it seems like many of the industries that do a lot of lobbying are made up of FARTS: Forced ARTificial Scarcity.

The RIAA and MPAA shouldn't exist. They peddle an industry funded by FARTS.

Big Pharma also peddles an industry funded by FARTS. Medical pricing has inflated ridiculously over the past few years.

I'm sure there are other industries peddled by FARTS. If you kill lobbying, the RIAA/MPAA will disappear in a few years, I think. I think you will also see a huge drop in the cost of healthcare and medical expenses.

The issue is...there are wealthy, powerful people who want to sell American culture and profit on these FARTS. The goal of SOPA seems to be to spread FARTS to all corners of the world.

I honestly think that the world is going to be a shitty, depressing, dystopian society if we cannot nip this in the butt. You will have governments being strung along by a handful of uber powerful billionaires, while a lot of poor people will just manage to get by. You have laws like SOPA and the Patriot Act which allow the government the shortest route to imprison people for violating the wishes of people peddling FARTS. Pretty depressing.

Thoughts? What to do? Where to go? How do you stop the lobbying and create a separation of Business and Government, but still keep some of the necessary regulation...

To me, it is all about healthy boundaries. Your doctor or therapist doesn't hit on you because it is a violation of boundaries. Teachers shouldn't flirt with their students: it is a boundary issue. To some extent, you probably shouldn't fuck your coworkers....because it is a boundary issue. When you become a Congressman or a Governor or a Senator or the President, you shouldn't have certain conversations or accept money from groups/people/organizations that you will then go vote on.

The Government is supposed to support the interests of the people, not a few business CEOs.
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