GameCube: "Beneath The Surface"

[D-realJos]

Hey all!

I've been meticulously looking over a few things that have been happening in the world of Nintendo lately, and I came up with some a few interesting things to share with you guys. The surface of any situation is usually "cut and dry" and relatively easy to understand. Sometimes however, if you allow yourself to, you can unravel additional meaning and interpret these situations in "new ways." These "new ways" may simply be other angles to view a situation, or -- on very rare occasions -- may be the correct/only way to view a situation. So, let that be the basic of this topic as you read on.

Situation 1: ATI entered a major deal with Nintendo to design technologies for use in Nintendo products

On on the surface: It's great to see ATI and Nintendo work again. Thanks to the first efforts of the ArtX team(creators of GCN's GPU, Flipper) since their acquisition, ATI currently now has the most powerful GPU on the market and has recently announced another one with the intention on staying "one step ahead" of Nvidia and their new Geforce FX chips. As a result, Nintendo fans are proud to hear this news since this chip will no doubt be a powerful and highly impressive one.

This is one way the view the situation and also the most apparent. But, what else could this suggest?

Beneath the surface: Nintendo knows that in order to gain more market share from Sony, it can't afford to let them get such a large head-start in the next generation like they did in this one. Nintendo have since went on to say they are working toward that goal. Therefore, more than anything else, this deal with ATI is the clearest indication so far that Nintendo is serious about this. If this deal is indeed about Nintendo's successor to GameCube, then they may be well ahead of Microsoft, who hasn't finalized their deal yet but has gone on record to state that they intend to beat Sony to the market in the next generation. Interesting, no?
(A is ahead of B, but B is ahead of C, so A is... ahhh.. i'm lost)

Situation 2: "We've been conducting online experiments with Mario Kart for quite some time. This time around, we've looked at it, and I still feel that [the kind of experience Mario Kart delivers] would be very difficult to pull off online." -- Miyamoto

On the surface: I've heard quite a few people ask; "what the hell is so difficult about adding online play to the game." Most people see that statement as some kind of continual effort to avoid online play. Mario Kart likely won't be online and that's the bottom line and that the only thing most people chose the gather from Miyamoto's statement.

But, what else can we possibly gather?

Beneath the surface: This is anything but some kind of "cop-out" to avoiding online gaming. With the likely unfortunate possibility that Mario Kart won't be online, comes two very interesting points. The first point to note is: Nintendo is very clear that they won't just jump online just because everyone else is doing it and they can too. If you took time to read that quote, it's definitely not a technical problem that existed, but it's solely about gameplay. Nintendo experimented, and despite what many of us thought we knew about "Mario Kart + Online," in the end, Nintendo realized it isn't the type of game that can truly exploit the capability. An experience that's "very difficult" to create online(I actually have a separate topic on this, which I hope to post in the near future). What this all comes down to is the fact that Nintendo isn't contented with throwing bones at us, hoping that online play will magically make games better, as many developers today seem to think. They are taking time and paying attention to what type of gameplay works and what doesn't. This is good, as quality software is key, online or not. You can bet that when even they do go online, it will be an experience to talk about.

The second point is the fact that Nintendo has stated numerous times that they don't see online gaming to be viable/profitable and can't afford the risk. It's no secret that they've been looking into the possibilities, despite what they've said. The fact that they were experimenting with Mario Kart seems to be the first indication that they may have found a way around whatever fears(mainly financial investment, coupled inadequate profit)they initially had about putting their games online. They apparently are in the selection process -- examining which games work best online. Surely, if they're looking for the right game, then Mario Kart can't be the only game they experimented with. It's very likely they'll follow through on games that give them good " test results." Perhaps a game such as Mario Tennis(among other possibilities) has already been through this process, which would add some substance to reports surrounding Nintendo's "World Smash" games.


Well, that's it. Any comments?

PS: If anything interesting comes to mind, look for a follow-up/update to this thread.

[Jonbo298]

Great job D-Real. Always breaking things down so far that they are dust afterwards. But good insights into what Nintendo has said recently. Hopefully Nintendo see's Online as good when they find the right game that will protray the goodness of it.

[Bad Religion]

another fine post, DReal! don't know if anyone cares but N also announced a nice deal with EA today, supposedly about 20 games in dev, with a strong emphasis on the GBA link, for use in games like Madden, etc...be cool to select plays and stuff with the gbasp!

[TheGame]

Let's just hope you are right about the next console... even though I feel next generation Nintendo has more of an upper hand if they release thier console a year later.

This generation, Xbox just screwed things all up... if it were just Ps2 and GCN it would have made for a more Nintendo-friendly war. As long as Nintendo's console clearly out-powers the others, release it a year later... if it doesn't clearly outpower our two lil friends, I say same date or earlier.

As far as online play, The deadline is coming up soon, Nintendo needs to make thier decision NOW if they are going to do it this generation. I'd rather them go ahead and have online play so they don't fall behind the times.

[Crash]

i'm just trying to figure out how mario kart COULDN'T be fun online.... **pimp slaps shiggy**

[Perfect Stu]

Good thread, although I don't think it takes much thought to come to similar conclusions to your 'beneath the surface' areas.

I mean, stupid folk would take those situations, form an irrational opinion and storm off in a cloud of ignorance. But here at GT, we're different. Most of us aren't monkeys, we're trained monkeys. Educated monkeys, if you will. (all thanks to Neo, of course...the educated monkey with a dangerous amount of power). About the Mario Kart thing...I would hope that Nintendo fans would instantly think something like: "damn...this probably means no Mario Kart online...but at least Nintendo gave it a chance, and are probably giving other games that equal (or greater) chance". I mean there are the select few that would stare lifelessly into their computer screen for a few minutes, and then proceed to jump off of some kind of steep cliff or mountain...but labelling them as the majority would be inappropriate IMO.

[bobcat]

I don't know if online is the way for Nintendo to go, especially considering that online requires maintenance + time + extra money. Something I don't think Nintendo can afford atm.

Once again great post Make more dammit

[Yoda9864]

I would love to play online with Mario Kart. I think it would be great, but the more I think about it, there's raelly not that much to do. Race and battle, that's it. Of course, Mario Kart tournaments would be very tempting.

Meh, Shiggy usually konws best.

[TheGame]

I think if Mario Kart were online even I would like it... but same ol lame ol Mario Kart I hate.

[bobcat]

4 player MK would be more than enough for me. Some new chars/weapons/tracks. That's all I want. So me and my mates can go back to those classic 11pm-3am late night Mk challenges.

[D-realJos]

let's see...

*takes deep breath*

Johnbo298...
"Hopefully Nintendo see's Online as good when they find the right game that will protray the goodness of it."

Most definitely! Some people think Nintendo is against the whole idea of Online gaming. That's not true. They've said in many interviews that they welcome the possibilities. What they made clear, was that they won't just put a game online just because that's where everybody think that's where the future of gaming lies. What I picked up from them over the last couple years or so, is; "If you're going go online, make the experience count!"


The Game...

"This generation, Xbox just screwed things all up... if it were just Ps2 and GCN it would have made for a more Nintendo-friendly war. As long as Nintendo's console clearly out-powers the others, release it a year later... if it doesn't clearly outpower our two lil friends, I say same date or earlier."

While I do agree that Xbox screwed everything up for GameCube, I'm not sure how it would benefit them to release a year later. Even if it's more powerful, how much could it possibly outpower the competition if they're all made around the same technological era/period? In a generation where even the weakest console would be able to pull off "CG-quality" visuals, I imagine the next Nintendo console would have to be much MUCH more powerful for consumers to care about it's late entry. But, as usual, anything is possible.


Perfect Stu...

"Good thread, although I don't think it takes much thought to come to similar conclusions to your 'beneath the surface' areas."

You're right it doesn't. It's all about your motives. It's not usually the motive of most people to look at X, Y, or Z situation and think of what it could mean in a more "indirect" sense. It's not that they lack intelligence or anything, it's just that it wasn't their intention.

That's why I said.. "Sometimes however, if you allow yourself to..."

I'm glad you brought that up, because I hope the purpose of this thread didn't come off in the wrong way.


bobcat...
"I don't know if online is the way for Nintendo to go, especially considering that online requires maintenance + time + extra money. Something I don't think Nintendo can afford atm."

I've been thinking that maybe they have low-cost/low maintenance solution in place. They've said before that when the time is right, they can jump right it. It's likely nothing as elaborate as Xbox Live(huge network supporting many games), but you know, sufficient. (just a few Nintendo published games perhaps?)


Crash
i'm just trying to figure out how mario kart COULDN'T be fun online.... **pimp slaps shiggy**

I have a thead about this to post. In fact, I started the thread more than a year ago. It was mainly about games that would be awesome to play online(namely Perfect Dark and Mario Kart. Somewhere during creating "mock scenarios" to give an idea of how much fun it would be, I realized something about Mario Kark. A kinda advantage split-screen has over online play, in Mario Kart's case. I never finished the thread, but lately I've been wondering if that's what Miyamoto meant when he made the statement about it's gameplay being difficult to reproduce online. More on this later!


Bad Religion
don't know if anyone cares but N also announced a nice deal with EA today

Nice deal indeed. If I just saw it with I logged on. I didn't read much of it but I know where they were going with this from day one. You remember when GameCube was first unveiled? Well, Nintendo specifically mentioned some examples of what you can do with the GBA/GCN connection feature. They specifically mentioned that; in a football game, it's possible to use the GBA as a mini screen to hide your strategic moves. I think this entire deal hached from that single idea. It's probably Miyamoto who really wanted to see the possibilities exploited.

Other than that, it's clear that Nintendo changed it's entire business model in this generation. Working so closely with major third party is the first step to ensure they'll be right there by Nintendo's side in the next generation. Not too shabby, huh?

[too bad I already posted the thread.. this would have fit right in. ]


PS: If I didn't reply to anyone's post... it's nothing personal.

[fingersman]

I highly doubt Nintendo will announce online gaming this generation. If Nintendo announces anything online it will probadly be with their next system, and hopefully they will announce it very early in the system's life cycle.

If they announce anything online at E3, I'll faint.

[Jonbo298]

Originally posted by fingersman
I highly doubt Nintendo will announce online gaming this generation. If Nintendo announces anything online it will probadly be with their next system, and hopefully they will announce it very early in the system's life cycle.

If they announce anything online at E3, I'll faint.

Set up a video camera the day E3 begins and when you hear Nintendo is making a game online, faint. That would be classic for me