Religion

[Shadow_Link]

Originally posted by Mushlafa
Theres no proof something created us at all... if something could create living things just like that .. why dont other planets have inteligent life like ours... huh? Why did he pick just this planet.. when im sure theres many other planets out there with an atmosphere by chance theres gotta be... I think if the conditions are right.. life will happen.. and very slowly but surely it will evolve into inteligent life somehow....

Funny you mention atmosphere..:

Iron In the Qur’aan

In Soorah Al-Hadeed the 57th chapter of the Qur’aan in Ayaat 25 Allah states:

“Wa anzalnaal hadeed, feehi ba’sun shadeed, wa manaafi’u linaas (I have revealed (sent down) iron which has great force in it and benefit for humans)”

The term anzalnaa has been interpreted as "revealed" from the early generation of interpreters because it indeed has the meaning of "to reveal". Yet, even when Allah uses the term anzalnaa, for example in “Wa anzalnaa ilaykal Qur’aan lidh dhikr (We have revealed to you the Qur’aan for remembrance)” in reference to the Prophet Muhammad about the Qur’aan being revealed to him, it did actually involve coming down since it was sent down from the Lawhil-Mahfoudh, to Baitul-‘Izzah in the first heaven, and from there the angel Jibreel (Gabriel) brought verses down according to the command of Allah to the Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu ‘alaihi wa sallam) so there was a process of coming down.

Now modern science, in looking at the issue of iron in the world, came to the conclusion that the origin of iron was from the core of the earth because the core of the earth is approximately 35% iron and then nickel. This is the molten core of the earth and as you go farther away from the core you get less and less iron until you get some 5.6% iron near the crust of the earth. Still it is amongst the highest elements in the crust percentage- wise, but it still appears to come from the inside outward. So where does the idea of the coming down of iron fit in? Again, the conclusion was it was revealed. That is, knowledge of its use was revealed to human beings. Allah gave them the capacity to understand and to utilize iron. This was the explanation given.


The Sun's temperature is 27,000,000º Fahrenheit (i.e. 15,000,000º Celsius) at the center.

However, more modern research came to the conclusion that in fact iron couldn’t have begun in the core of the earth! It couldn’t have begun there! Why? Because the sun of our solar system, which is the hottest location in the solar system, in its own core only reaches - according to their calculation - approximately 15,000,000 degrees Celsius. Of course this is quite hot, however it is not hot enough to produce iron! The most common element in the universe is hydrogen, which is the first element in the periodic table, while helium is number two and everything else is a combination containing some fusion of the atoms of hydrogen and helium to produce other elements. Iron is way down the line. It is number 56 and as such, the heat which is necessary had to be in the billions of degrees! They estimate someplace it had to be around 5 billion degrees to produce iron. So our sun could not produce iron. So then where did the iron come from? This was the question puzzling researchers.

In the late eighties, studying stars, they came to realize of course that there were huge stars much greater than the Sun – our star – which did in fact in their degeneration, their evolution or development, generate the kind of heat that could produce iron when they went nova or super-nova. They exploded and iron shot out into the universe in the form of meteorites etc. Most of the meteorites which hit the Earth are made mostly of iron. So in looking back, scientists in the late eighties began to re-examine their view of the development of the Earth and they came to the conclusion that in fact what happened was the Earth - which was a produce of the evolution of the Sun - was like a ball of ash and that the meteorites hit the surface of the Earth and in hitting the surface it increased the heat of the Earth because with the impact there was energy released. So meteor showers hitting the Earth increased the heat enough to melt that iron, not produce iron, but to melt that iron and it would then sink through the surface towards the center of the Earth and became concentrated in the core of the earth and that’s how they explain it now.

You can find this in Stephen Hawking’s book called “A Brief History of Time” a best-seller from one of the biggest, most famous atheists out there and another book called ”The First Three Minutes” by Steven Weinberg. Both of them present the exact same picture of how iron came to the core of the Earth. So from that, we see iron actually coming down to the Earth as Allah described it.

Additionally, iron is the most stable element. The bonds which hold its atomic structure together are the strongest bonds of all of the other elements so it does have that “ba’sun shadeed”. And of course its benefit is that it being most of the Earth’s core it produced the basis of the gravitational pull of the Earth which holds the atmosphere and the biosphere around the Earth. Without that iron core to produce the gravitational field, we would not have any atmosphere on the Earth and no life would survive on the Earth! Critical! Furthermore, when you go into human beings there is hemoglobin, and when you go into plants chlorophyll. These are the essential elements that transform energy from material sources, from the Sun etc. to chemical energy in our bodies which allow the cells to grow. In everything, both human beings and plants, iron is essential for their development and this was described in the Qur’aan some 1400 years ago.

These are among the signs, for those who would reflect, that there is in fact a God. Life on Earth certainly WASN'T down to chance.

Further proof of how what was revealed to the Prophet Mohammed was from a higher being, and not a human source. None of this was known over 1400 years ago...

[manasecret]

Originally posted by Shadow_Link
Funny you mention atmosphere..:

Iron In the Qur’aan

In Soorah Al-Hadeed the 57th chapter of the Qur’aan in Ayaat 25 Allah states:

“Wa anzalnaal hadeed, feehi ba’sun shadeed, wa manaafi’u linaas (I have revealed (sent down) iron which has great force in it and benefit for humans)”

It doesn't seem like proof to me at all. I read through the articles on your website (except for the birth one), and it sounds somewhat convincing but isn't like the Qur'aan explicitly states exactly that Iron was sent from a star not of our own because our sun is not hot enough. Nor does it explicitly explain how the planets were created, or the other things that website tries to prove the Qur'aan states 1400 years ago.

The quote you gave is said in a roundabout way, and the articles also seem to explain things in a roundabout way. They are saying things in a certain way to make it seem like it is absolute proof.

Like the translation of the quote up there, it says God "revealed" but then says "sent down." It seems like it's changing things around to make it seem more convincing.

I respect your beliefs, don't get me wrong. But what that website and article are doing is reminiscient of what people do with the Christian Bible and especially the book of Revelation. They manipulate the words said in order to make it seem like undoubtable "proof" of something else.

I admit it's interesting, and something I didn't know about Islam. But I personally don't think finding "proof" in holy books is necessary to believe in a God (though I don't believe in what Islam says you must believe about Allah).

The proof of God is all around us. A higher being anyway, and maybe multiple higher beings. Maybe a better description is that God is an extremely smart or "higher" alien race, one from outward of this universe or realm we know.

[Almansurah]

Originally posted by Joeiss
I am just curious about what religion you all are. Also, do you believe that your religion is the right religion? Do you believe that only the people who believe in your religion will go to heaven?

I think that there is one God who created everything here on earth. And I think that Muslims, Hindus, Jews and Christians are people who just take different paths, but believe in the same God. Yep... therefore nobody is wrong... people just take different paths in life... YEP!

But I don't know about those atheists... Don't know where they go...lol

Hi.

I am a Muslim, and follow the religion of Islam. And Yes, I do believe my religion is the correct religion. Why is that?

It's plain and simple.

The Qur'an is Allah's words [God], it contains no contradictions such as the Bible, and many other Holy Books, and if you think it does have a contradiction, or something which is false, please bring it forth.

Allah [God] has challenged anyone to even come up with a chapter like the Qur'an, yet no one has succeeded, absolutely no one, doesn't this indicate it's true? Since no human-being, not even those with PHD'S can even attempt to imitate it?

Concerning the second question, do we believe that only the people in our religion will go to heaven? Well, we believe that those who testify to the one-ness of God, without attributing any partners will go to heaven one day. This is the main part of islam [Tauheed-oneness of Allah].

But there will also be many Muslims who wont go to heaven straight away, we aren't guaranteed paradise for free, we have to work for it, follow the commands set by God in his book [The Qur'an], and be sincere, and only do it to please HIM.

And about you believing that the other religions are right, like Hindu's and Christianity, well I just have one doubt about that, the bible contains so much contradictions, and Hindu's, they believe in Monkey's, so how can a lord be a Monkey? Worse than a human?

[nWoCHRISnWo]

Originally posted by Blackmane
Believing in nothing makes less sense than believing in something. Firstly, there is no compelling evidence that there ISN'T a heaven or a hell. So, why would you want to believe that when you die, everything goes black and thats it?

No evidence that there isn't a heaven or hell? How about the fact that nobody has ever been there? There's no compelling evidence that if you put all the cell phones in the world by eachother they'd turn into a monster, so do you believe in that? It's no different than believing heaven or hell other than the fact that there aren't millions of people brainwashed to believe it.

And how does believing that an all powerful being, (or "creature" or whatever you want to call god) who nobody can see, created people make more sense than... Well anything? Have you ever seen something that could create people using his magical powers? Maybe on a fairy tale, which is exactly what religions are.

And it's not about believing what you want to believe, it's what you actually think. Sure, I'd love to believe that when I die I can go to some huge place where all the other dead people are and meet Owen Hart, but it's about 100 times more believable that when I die, that's it, I'm dead.

[Almansurah]

Originally posted by Mushlafa
I dont beleive in a god or heaven or hell... kinda feel like im missing out

This was a short post, written by someone, on why we Muslims believe in Allah.

Also I ask you lot, why are we in this world? Would God just bring us for no reason? It is a test for us, to see what we do, and who are the true believers, and who aren't.

I have never seen Allah because I do not possess the ability to see Him. If we were to use the rationale that "if something cannot be detected by the standard five senses then it does not exist", then I would assume you are a mindless person because I cannot see, touch, hear, smell or taste your mind. But I know you have one because there is ample evidence.

I could ask you what kind of car you drive. I drive a Civic. I have never met any of the designers, the people who worked on the manufacturing process, or the people who test drove it, etc. I do not know their names. I do not know where they live or if they are even alive anymore.

But I know someone, some entity with the power to design and fashion such a complex object, did exist at one time or another. It is impossible and absurd to assume that the parts of the car somehow formed themselves altogether and then assembled themselves to form a car. I know a company called Honda exists and it is run by humans.

The same goes for other objects like houses, airplanes, rockets, etc. These required people to think about them, design, build and maintain them.

After all that, I find it very strange and absurd that people assume that something like the Earth or the Universe [which is infinitely more complex than a car or a house] could come together by itself. Surely there must be a Being out there who has designed this Universe and all that is in it, with great wisdom, and is also taking care of these Creations.

In English we call this Being by the name "God' and in Islam we use the Arabiy term "Allah". This term is used not only by Muslims but also by Arab-speaking Christians or Arab-speaking Jews to refer to God.

You asked if God has spoken to me. Yes He has. Not to me personally, but to all of Mankind. His words are what make up the Qur'an. It contains the words of God, which were recorded by men with great care. There are no mistakes in the Qur'an.

I challenge you to find any.

Every single copy of the Qur'an in the world today is the same word for word, letter for letter. Whether it is a copy from 1400 years ago or if it was printed just a week ago. Whether it is from China or Saudi Arabia or Brazil or America or Malaysia. It does not matter.

It is interesting to note the the British Crusaders tried, some time ago, to wipe out Islam by destroying all copies of the Qur'an. they offered vast incentives for people who would turn in their copies of the Qur'an. Most people had no idea what the British were doing. Eventually one man with two sons approached the British officer who was collecting the copies and told him that they would never be able to wipe out the Qur'an because, and then he pointed to his sons' chests, he told them that the Muslims keep the Qur'an protected in their hearts. There are Muslims, many of them, who have memorized the entire Qur'an.

The British gave up.

Regarding the standards we have in our religion, they are not man-made. They were set by God and His Messenger. If you insist otherwise, then bring forth your evidence.

[manasecret]

Originally posted by Almansurah
And about you believing that the other religions are right, like Hindu's and Christianity, well I just have one doubt about that, the bible contains so much contradictions, and Hindu's, they believe in Monkey's, so how can a lord be a Monkey? Worse than a human?

Wow. You're boiling down both religions to just that? First, present us with contradictions from the Bible, don't simply state it. I don't know about Hindus, but I doubt the only thing they believe is something about monkeys.

What about Jews? What about Buddhists?

If I were you I would show a little more respect for the other religions unless you want to get seriously flamed.

[Almansurah]

Originally posted by manasecret
Wow. You're boiling down both religions to just that? First, present us with contradictions from the Bible, don't simply state it. I don't know about Hindus, but I doubt the only thing they believe is something about monkeys.

What about Jews? What about Buddhists?

If I were you I would show a little more respect for the other religions unless you want to get seriously flamed.

The reason why I havn't come up with contradictions yet, is because I could just give you a website, and say 'hey, check out the false bible,' but you could also give a link to me and say 'check out the contradictions in the Qur'an,' and hence the discussion will go no where, because I'll just be showing a site to you, so if you want contradictions, I will research some, i've read some before in the past.

And if you've got contradictions in the Qur'an, then please bring them forward.

[Almansurah]

This is a contradiction concerning the Easter story related in the Bible, it follows the following sequence, and shows a different range of stories in the different books:

New Testament Book / Author Statement / Witness Verse(s) [The book name is given first, then the statement, and the verse]

The Visitors to the Tomb

As you can see, there are different visitors related in each book:

Matthew "Mary Magdalene and the other Mary". 28:1
Mark "Mary Magdalene, the mother of James, and Salome". 16:1
Luke "Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and other women". 24:10
John "Mary Magdalene". 20:1

Their Purpose in Visiting the Tomb

Matthew They came "to see the tomb". Doesn't previously mention that the body was already spiced, but only "wrapped" (27:59). 28:1
Mark They "brought spices" in order to "anoint him". Doesn't previously mention that the body was spiced, but only "wrapped" (15:46). 15:47, 16:1
Luke To bring "the spices which they had prepared". Previous to this it mentions that the body was "wrapped" (23:53) and that the women "prepared spices" (23:56). 24:1
John No reason stated, but the body was "bound" with "spices" by Joseph of Arimathea and Nicodemus on one of the day(s) previous to Sunday . Notice that Luke 23:55 says that "the women" observed the tomb and "how the body was laid" - but later had to return to bring the "spices which they had prepared" (24:1)!!! 19:38-40

The Time of the Visit to the Tomb

Matthew As it "began to dawn". 28:1
Mark It was "very early in the morning . . . at the rising of the sun" (KJV); "when the sun had risen" (NKJV); "when the sun had risen" (NRSV); "just after sunrise" (NIV). 16:2
Luke It was "very early in the morning" (KJV); "very early in the morning" (NKJV); "at early dawn" (NRSV). 24:1
John It was "early, while it was still dark". 20:1

The Status of the Entrance of the Tomb

Matthew Closed, but opened by an angel after a "great earthquake". 28:2
Mark Open, since "the stone had been rolled away". They entered the tomb. 16:4-5
Luke Open, since "they found the stone rolled away". Seemingly their first visit to the tomb, since they were "greatly perplexed about this". 24:2-4
John Opened, and Mary runs to "Simon Peter, and to the other disciple". 20:1-2

The Angel(s)/Messenger(s) at the Tomb

Matthew One "angel of the Lord". 28:2-7
Mark One "young man clothed in a long white robe". 16:5
Luke Two "men" who "stood by them in shining garments". 24:4
John Two angels "in white" appear to Mary after "Simon Peter" and to the "other disciple" depart. 20:12

The Location of the Angel(s)/Messenger(s) at the Tomb

Matthew Angel spoke while sitting on the stone. 28:2
Mark Sitting inside the tomb, on the "right side". 16:5
Luke Standing "beside them" inside the tomb. 24:3-4
John Sitting "one at the head and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain". 20:12

The Statment(s) of the Angels(s)/Messenger(s)

Matthew "Do not be afraid, for I know that you seek Jesus who was crucified. He is not here, for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay. And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead: and indeed he is going before you into Galilee; there you will see him: Behold, I have told you." 28:5-7
Mark "Do not be alarmed. You seek Jesus of Nazareth, who was crucified. He is risen! He is not here. See the place where they laid him. But go and tell his disciples - and Peter - that he is going before you into Galilee; there you will see him, as he said to you." 16:6-7
Luke "Why do you seek the living among the dead? He is not here, but is risen! Remember how he spoke to you when he was still in Galilee, saying, 'The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.'" 24:5-7
John "Woman, why are you weeping?", Mary then turns around and sees Jesus, but doesn't recognize him. 20:13-14

Did the Visitors to the Tomb Tell Others?

Matthew Yes, since they "ran to bring his disciples word". 28:8
Mark No, since "they said nothing to anyone". Later it says that Mary Magdalene "went and told those who had been with him". 16:8; 16:10
Luke Yes, since "they returned from the tomb and told all these things to the eleven and to all the rest". 24:9, 22-24
John Yes, since "Mary Magdelene came and told the disciples". 20:18

Did "Mary" Know That Jesus was Resurrected?

Matthew Yes. (28:7-8
Mark Yes. 16:10,11
Luke Yes. 24:10, 22-23
John No. 20:2, 14

Who was the "First" to see Jesus?

Matthew Apparently Mary Magdalene and Mary, since they "met" Jesus on the way to tell the disciples. 28:9
Mark Mary Magdalene was "first". 16:9
Luke Apparently the two on the road to Emmaus. 24:13
John Mary Magdalene. 20:14
When did "Mary" First See Jesus?
Matthew On her way to tell the disciples. 28:9
Mark Before she returned to the disciples. 16:9, 10
Luke Doesn't say. ---
John At the tomb, after the angel(s) spoke to her - "Simon Peter, and to the other disciple" had "went away".. 20:10, 14

Was Jesus in a Spiritual or Physical Body After the Resurrection?
Matthew Physical, since they "came and held him by the feet", even though he managed to get out of the tomb before the stone was rolled away. 28:9
Mark Like a spirit, since he "appeared" to Mary Magdalene, but "appeared" in "another form" to the two men on the road. 16:9, 12
Luke Physical, since Jesus says "a spirit does not have flesh and bones" and he eats. 24:39, 43
John Seemingly spiritual, since Jesus says "do not cling to me". However, Thomas later touches Jesus. 20:17, 27
The First Appearance of Jesus (After the Women)
Matthew To the "eleven disciples". 28:16
Mark To "two" disciples "in the country", but later he appears to "the eleven". 16:12,14
Luke To the two disciples travelling on the road to Emmaus, and later to "the eleven". 24:13,36
John A number is not stated, but Thomas - "one of the twelve" - was absent (along with Judas), so apparently only ten. 20:19, 24
Paul - I Corinthians To "Cephas" (i.e. Peter), and then to "the twelve" (even though all of the Gospels only mention "eleven", since Judas was already dead!!!) 15:5
The Location of Jesus’ First Appearance
Matthew On a mountain in Galilee, which is, at a minimum, between 60 and 70 miles away!!!. 28:16-17
Mark "In the country" to two disciples, but to the eleven "as they sat at the table". 16:12,14
Luke On the road to Emmaus (about seven miles from Jerusalem), and later to the disciples in a room in Jerusalem in the "evening". 24:29, 31, 33, 36
John In a room, during the "evening". 20:19

Did the Disciples of Jesus Believe the "Two Men"?

Matthew Not mentioned.. ---
Mark No, since "they did not believe them either". 16:13
Luke Yes; since "the eleven" were saying "The Lord is risen indeed . . . " - as if they already knew. 24:34
John Two men not mentioned. Doesn't say if they believed Mary. ---
What Happened at the Appearance of Jesus?

Matthew The disciples "worshipped him", though "some doubted", Jesus speaks. 28:17-18
Mark Jesus "rebuked their unbelief and hardness of heart". 16:14
Luke Jesus, unrecognizable to any of them, materializes out of nowhere, and the discipes "thought they had seen a spirit". Jesus questions "the eleven", eats, and then "led them out as far as Bethany". 24:36-50
John Jesus appears "in their midst" (even though the "doors were shut") and the disciples were "glad" to see him. Jesus speaks, but does not reprimand them. 21:19-23

Did Jesus Stay on Earth for Very Long After the Ressurection?
Matthew Doesn't say. 28:17-18
Mark No, since he was "received up into heaven" after he had spoken. Note that John 20:19 says that the meeting took place on "the first day of the week" - i.e. Sunday.. 16:19
Luke No, since he ascends on Sunday evening - the same day of his resurrection. This can be deduced because on "that same day" (24:13), which was "the third day since" the crucifixion (24:20-21), he met the two on the road to Emmau and continued with them until it was "toward evening" (24:29). After recognizing Jesus that evening, the two "rose up that very hour and returned to Jeruslam" (24:33), where they met "the eleven". Jesus appeared to them as "they said these things" (24:36). Jesus speaks to them and then accompanies them "as far as Bethany" (24:50), where he then ascends (24:51). 24:13, 20-21, 29, 33, 36, 50-51
John Yes, at least "eight" days. 20:26
Acts Yes, since it specifies "forty" days. 1:3

The Location of Jesus’ Ascension into Heaven

Matthew No ascension reported and the book ends on the mountain in Galilee. ---
Mark In "Galilee", after meeting "the eleven". 16:7; 16:14
Luke In Bethany, near Jerusalem. 24:50-51
John Jesus' ascension is not mentioned. ---
Acts From the Mount of Olives. 1:9-12
Paul Never mentions the ascension. ---
Did Jesus Tell His Disciples to Stay in Jerusalem?
Matthew Not mentioned, but apparently not since they went to Galilee (a minium of 60-70 miles away). ---
Mark Not mentioned, but apparently he did not, since they went to Galilee (a minium of 60-70 miles away). ---
Luke Yes, he told them "tarry in the city of Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high". After the ascension, they returned from Bethany "to Jersalam" and "were continually in the temple". The "power from on high " came fifty days after the resurrection on Pentecost (Acts 1 and 2). 24:50-53
John Not mentioned. ---
Acts Yes, he told them "not to depart from Jerusalem". 1:4

And 'Manasecret', you are right when you stated that the religions dont just boil down to what I stated, but anyway here's some more information on hinduism, if you need any refutation of these religions then please ask.

Hindus believe in many gods and goddesses. Some of them are human (e.g. Krishna, Rama [ 13 ]), some animals (e.g. fish, monkey, rat, snake), (some animal-humans as in the case of Ganesh who has the head of elephant with trunk and the body of a human), and some others are natural phenomena (e.g. dawn, fire, sun). Their number is generally believed to be 330 million. According to Hindu belief, god incarnates, i.e., takes the form of human being and other animals and appears in this earth in that form. Gods and goddesses were born like human beings and had wives and children. No god possesses absolute power; some of the gods are weaker than the sages and some others even weaker than the monkey (e.g. Rama).
Another aspect about Hindu gods is that the status of their godhood is not fixed. One finds that some gods were worshipped for a time and then abandoned and new gods and goddesses were adopted instead. The gods and goddesses worshipped now-a-days in Hindu homes and temples are not Vedic. The Vedic gods like Agni (fire), Surya (sun) Usha (dawn) are completely rejected and the gods and goddesses mentioned in the Puranas are worshipped by modern Hindus. Similarly, Rama who is currently receiving increasing acceptance among Hindus in India because of the wide propagation of the official and other media was never worshipped as a deity until the eleventh century.

[manasecret]

Originally posted by Almansurah
The reason why I havn't come up with contradictions yet, is because I could just give you a website, and say 'hey, check out the false bible,' but you could also give a link to me and say 'check out the contradictions in the Qur'an,' and hence the discussion will go no where, because I'll just be showing a site to you, so if you want contradictions, I will research some, i've read some before in the past.

And if you've got contradictions in the Qur'an, then please bring them forward.

I don't have contradictions to present and I don't plan on finding any. I respect your religion and your beliefs. And you're right, if I wanted to find some the discussion would be circular.

I think you missed my point in my post. My point was that I think you should give more respect to the other religions and not treat them so simply or condescendingly.

However, if you have contradictions to present then please post them. Unless you tell us what you think the contradictions to be, we don't actually know if they are contradictions. It may be something you believe is a contradiction while others may not.

So post some or post a link. I'd like to read some.

[Almansurah]

Originally posted by manasecret


I think you missed my point in my post. My point was that I think you should give more respect to the other religions and not treat them so simply or condescendingly.

Yeh, you're right.

I didn't mean to disrespect any religion by stating what I stated, but I realise I was wrong about the Hindu's comment, stating they only believe in monkeys, which they dont. Sorry.

And in Islam, we are also commanded to respect everyones beliefs, and as it states 'There is no compulsion in religion.' So if anyone doesn't want to accept Islam, that is the road they take.......

[Angrist]

I'm one of Jehovah's Witnesses.

Tadaa it all makes sense now.

I'm very content with my religion. It's a very active one, so it takes up quite a lot of time. But that's really worth it, it keeps us awake and we really learn a lot about the bible and the coming Kingdom on earth.

As you can see, we are quite normal people. We even post on gaming forums!

Why do we visit you at home? Because Jesus tells us to do so in the bible. We don't earn money with it. Today, the work is totally paid by voluntary gifts. We personally don't keep the money you'd give us, it's used to finance the printing of the reading matter and stuff.
We believe we can save lives with this work.

Like most religions, we truly believe it's the right one.

A thing I like about my religion, is that we have 'family' everywhere. Last year I moved to another town for university, and right away I had really good friends.

[Shadow_Link]

Sorry, but NOTHING was manipulated! Please read the part about that again.

The sent down is a thing in brackets, not the actual translation... Hence it helps to expand the meaning to the common reader... I don't know where you got the idea from that words were manipulated. That's the miracle, and beauty of the Qur'aan, it's so simple, yet has an almost limitless depth of wisdom and information.

I don't see what's so roundabout about anything, even very famous, non-muslim astronomers, geologists, etc seem to marvel at how accurate, AND DETAILED the scientific details are in the Qur'aan. None of what is said in the Qur'aan could have come from human sources, totally impossible (which is also said by numerous scientists)... The only place those words in the Qur'aan came from is from a higher being, one that actually created the universe, one that knows the ins and outs of how things were made.

If you have any contradictions in the Qur'aan, or any questions, then bring them forth, because Allah has challenged anyone to make even a chapter like it, yet no one has succeeded.

And, if you have any more time, I strongly suggest you look at the stages of the human development article...

The point of the actual book [Qur'aan] is to show that islam is the truth, to order commands, and to prohibit certain things, and to give it as a manual to those who believe. It's a way of life.

"The Qur’aan is not a book of science but a book of ‘signs’, i.e. ayats. There are more than six thousand ‘signs’ in the Qur’aan of which more than a thousand deal with science. We all know that many a times Science takes a ‘U-turn’. In this book I have considered only established scientific facts and not mere hypotheses and theories that are based on assumptions and are not backed by proof."

(though I don't believe in what Islam says you must believe about Allah).

Could you please expand on that, I didn't quite understand what you were trying to say..?

[manasecret]

Originally posted by Almansurah
Yeh, you're right.

I didn't mean to disrespect any religion by stating what I stated, but I realise I was wrong about the Hindu's comment, stating they only believe in monkeys, which they dont. Sorry.

And in Islam, we are also commanded to respect everyones beliefs, and as it states 'There is no compulsion in religion.' So if anyone doesn't want to accept Islam, that is the road they take.......

Ok, cool. We can leave it at that I suppose.

Thanks for posting the contradictions. I see now what you mean by contradictions, contradictions in the exact details of certain events.

What I thought you meant was that there were contradictions in the values or beliefs that Jesus taught. I can see how contradictions such as the examples you gave may turn people away from the Christian Bible, but I think it's important to remember that the gospels were written many years after the events came to pass. Also I think it's important to remember that the principles and values preached are more important than the exact details, at least that's how it's taught to Catholics.

Also, thanks for the information on Hindus.

[Xantar]

I just want to make a comment here.

There have been a lot of really long posts in this thread. And the longest of them all wasn't written by me. How often does that happen?

[Almansurah]

Originally posted by manasecret
Ok, cool. We can leave it at that I suppose.

Thanks for posting the contradictions. I see now what you mean by contradictions, contradictions in the exact details of certain events.

What I thought you meant was that there were contradictions in the values or beliefs that Jesus taught. I can see how contradictions such as the examples you gave may turn people away from the Christian Bible, but I think it's important to remember that the gospels were written many years after the events came to pass. Also I think it's important to remember that the principles and values preached are more important than the exact details, at least that's how it's taught to Catholics.

Also, thanks for the information on Hindus.

Yep, that's what I mean by contradictions 'Manasecret.'

The Qur'an [Holy Book of Muslims] was also collected many years after the revelation had occured, but it was memorised by many of the people with the Prophet peace be upon him [Word for word], and hence was recorded all in order.

We Muslims believe the bible was also the word of God, and so was the Torah, but the fact of the matter is these books were distorted by common people, who had evil intentions.

As stated by a former Christian missionary, Dr Gary Miller:

The Bible consists of 66 small books. About 18 of them begin by saying: This is the revelation God gave to so and so… The rest make no claim as to their origin. You have for example the beginning of the book of Jonah which begins by saying: The word of the Lord came to Jonah the son of Elmitaeh saying… quote and then it continues for two or three pages.

Our book is one. It's been the same since it's been revealed. Compare our copy of the Qur'an to the old copies found in the library, and you would not even find a difference in one thing. I guarantee this. Just pick up the Qur'an and try read it, find anything wrong with it.

We hope God guides us all to the right path.

No Problem about information of Hindus.