Final Fantasy Megathread

[Ginkasa]

Final Fantasy III wiki page


Originally released in Japan for the Nintendo Famicom in 1990, Final Fantasy III was the second game to not initially receive a North American release. Unlike FFII, a domestic release was not even considered since they had already committed to releasing Final Fantasy IV for the SNES instead. Final Fantasy III was the last of the "unreleased" games to finally receive localization via a complete remake for the Nintendo DS in 2006 with several changes to the story and gameplay. To date, there still has not been a release of the original game in NA making Final Fantasy III in some ways the "final" Final Fantasy.

The original Famicom version focus on four un-named orphans who are dubbed the Warriors of Light after discovering the Crystal of Wind. They are charged with relighting the four Crystals of Light and restoring balance to the world. The DS remake gives the four orphans names and personalities and slightly alters the early events of the game to allow the player to meet and recruit each one. Luneth is the main character and, in this version, is the only person who discovers the crystal of wind. He is then charged with finding the additional Warriors of Light. They are Arc, Luneth's best friend, Refia, the daughter of a blacksmith, and Ingus, a Knight of Sasune.

The gameplay of III takes more inspiration from I than II. III introduces the Job System which allows the 4 warriors to train in any class and to also switch classes later on. These include the original 6 classes from FFI and add an additional 17 classes. III also introduced class specific abilities (like Jump or Steal) rather than simply having each class alter stats and weapon choices.

A few other new items introduced in III and carried on to later games:

- Moogles
- Summons

At this point, most of the recurring features of the Final Fantasy series have been introduced. Future games simply expand on the existing ideas or introduce new elements that don't get carried over into future games.

As noted previously, Final Fantasy III has only been legally released in NA on the Nintendo DS. It is possible, however, to find the original game emulated with a fanslation. Also, an interesting note: Final Fantasy III is the only core FF title to have not seen a release on a Sony console or any console other than ones made by Nintendo. A port to the Wonderswan was planned, but eventually cancelled due to programming difficulties.

Cid Watch:



Cid Haze is the first Cid to have his very own last name. The characters first meet Cid very early in the game and help him break the curse of the djinn. For their help, Cid donates his airship to the group (but it doesn't last long) and then retires with his wife. Cid returns later in the game to upgrade the group's ship into another airship and reveals that he played a key role in the orphan's origins.

This Cid essentially established the name as a recurring role and also placed into a slightly larger supporting role than in Final Fantasy II. This also cements Cid's association with airships.


*****

Alright, so Final Fantasy III! This is another game I've never beaten. I played it and a got somewhat far, but I've never been a fan of the Job system (either in this or V) and gave up the game when it basically said "Have all dragoons or die!" I thought the game was cheating. Anyway, we'll see how it goes this time.

I will, of course, be playing it on the DS. I'm interested to see if anyone will be or has played the original version via ROM? I'd like to see anyone's thoughts on the original version.

[magus113]

I'm still gonna be on FFII for a while probably, but I'm not jumping in on III as I've already finished it. Grats on II though. I want to finally see what's up with this game so we'll see what happens.

[magus113]

Well sadly, my progress in II has been stunted because of the free weekend of Modern Warfare 2 on Steam, my compelling urge to keep watching Cardcaptor Sakura for some reason, and my ever looming research paper (which is late).

I'm trying to get my paper done by tonight so maybe I can hit it up. I made it to Castle Kas'ion at any rate. I'm trying to beef the prince up a little bit. He's kind of a wuss. But that shouldn't be too difficult. Firion and Maria are weak enough to get his HP low enough without dying to get his HP, and weapon mastery should come with it.

I think after Castle Kas'ion I'm gonna try to beef up Firion, Maria, and Gus up a little more. Firion and Maria's MP is a bit too low for my tastes so I'm gonna do some Faze action and see how that goes. Everyone's HP should probably come up too.

My biggest issue with getting HP and MP up is that it's very costly, so once money starts to run a little low there's a bit too much money grinding that has to go on to make sure I can front the bills for the inns and there really isn't that much gil thrown around by enemies, at least not in this area.

[Ginkasa]

Regarding gil, you can play a game of Concentration on the snowcraft by holding O and pressing X about 20 times (similar to the number game in FFI). If you can beat it without making any mistakes you'll get 40,000 gil (plus some other awesome things like an Elixir). Even if make a couple of mistakes you'll learn a few thousand gil. Also, there is kind of a way to cheat it. Basically, there are only 32 combinations of characters in FFII's concentration and they also go in the same order. So if you play it once, write down where everyone is, then cancel out of it 31 times you should get that same original combination. Since its written down you'll know exactly where everyone is.

Its kind of cheap, but it'll take care of your money problems for a while. And eventually, you'll start finding so much gil in dungeons and so much extra equipment you can sell off you won't need to be worrying about gil at all. I think I ended II with over a half a million in extra gil lying around and absolutely none of it was from the snowcraft game.

****

As for me, I have finally passed the part I quit at last time. As I kind of hinted at before it was where you have to fight Garuda and essentially you need to either be crazy over-levelled or have a bunch of dragoons jumping around. They even have a bunch of people in game say, "Hey, beat it with a dragoon!" and practically hand you four sets of dragoon equipment. Unforunately, the first time I tried it (with dragoons) they all died, and again, and again. I figured you had to raise your dragoons job levels to crazy heights which I thought was ridiculous. So, I quit the game in frustration.

This time I pretty much had the same troubles. I died about 2-3 times before finally the cards just landed right and I was able to beat Garuda. Essentially I just had to cross my fingers that Garuda's attacks would fall after I jumped and then before I landed. And pray he didn't spam Lightning.

Anyway, I'm a bit past that now. I just received the Invincible and am now being told I have to be Dark Knights to survive the next dungeons. Gosh darn this game is annoying.

[Typhoid]

Wake me up when you guys start playing IV, so I can play it with you.

[magus113]

Originally Posted by Ginkasa

Regarding gil, you can play a game of Concentration on the snowcraft by holding O and pressing X about 20 times (similar to the number game in FFI). If you can beat it without making any mistakes you'll get 40,000 gil (plus some other awesome things like an Elixir). Even if make a couple of mistakes you'll learn a few thousand gil. Also, there is kind of a way to cheat it. Basically, there are only 32 combinations of characters in FFII's concentration and they also go in the same order. So if you play it once, write down where everyone is, then cancel out of it 31 times you should get that same original combination. Since its written down you'll know exactly where everyone is.

Its kind of cheap, but it'll take care of your money problems for a while. And eventually, you'll start finding so much gil in dungeons and so much extra equipment you can sell off you won't need to be worrying about gil at all. I think I ended II with over a half a million in extra gil lying around and absolutely none of it was from the snowcraft game.

****

As for me, I have finally passed the part I quit at last time. As I kind of hinted at before it was where you have to fight Garuda and essentially you need to either be crazy over-levelled or have a bunch of dragoons jumping around. They even have a bunch of people in game say, "Hey, beat it with a dragoon!" and practically hand you four sets of dragoon equipment. Unforunately, the first time I tried it (with dragoons) they all died, and again, and again. I figured you had to raise your dragoons job levels to crazy heights which I thought was ridiculous. So, I quit the game in frustration.

This time I pretty much had the same troubles. I died about 2-3 times before finally the cards just landed right and I was able to beat Garuda. Essentially I just had to cross my fingers that Garuda's attacks would fall after I jumped and then before I landed. And pray he didn't spam Lightning.

Anyway, I'm a bit past that now. I just received the Invincible and am now being told I have to be Dark Knights to survive the next dungeons. Gosh darn this game is annoying.

I actually had to go and train two ninjas and buy a fuckton of shurikens for Cloud of Darkness because everyone else did diddly-dick on her. It was quite obnoxious.

[Ginkasa]

Whoo! Beat III. Having now beaten the Cloud of Darkness I am actually wondering what all the hype was about. I beat her on my first try (thank goodness; I don't think I would want to marathon through the Crystal Tower and the World of Darkness more than once). Granted, I had also planned ahead and started training Ingus as a Ninja as soon as it was available. I also accumulated tons of gil whilst training and had about 35 Shurkiens going into the battle.

I did lose Luneth, but everyone else withstood Particle Beam like a champ. My final party had Luneth as a Knight, Arc as a Summoner, Refia as a Devout, and Ingus as a Ninja. Levels were 56-57. Battle only lasted around 5 rounds.

Anyway, as for the game as whole... I doubt I'll be revisiting it anytime soon. It had its charm, but Job system has always annoyed me and the story is way too inconsistent to really be enjoyable. It seems to say that light and dark are equal with neither being inherently good or evil, but then its the Cloud of Darkness being fought in the World of Darkness because everybody's trying to cover the world in darkness. I wish they had just gone for something simpler if they couldn't handle the concept yet.

Anyway, I really don't have many thoughts on III. Its apparently held in really high regard in Japan - it was voted one of the best games ever, supposedly. I think they're crazy. The Job system is just way too clunky and abused by the game to be that great. When I get to V we'll see if Square improved on the concept.

IV's post coming up shortly.

[Ginkasa]

Psst. Typhoid! Wake up!


Final Fantasy IV wiki page


Released in 1991 in the Japan for the Super Famicom. FFIV was released in NA later that year for the SNES under the title Final Fantasy II due to the original II and III not being released in NA. IV was the first FF game to be released for a 16-bit console.

Final Fantasy IV's story exponentially improved on the tales told in prior games. Characters now were devloped beyond single lines and simple traits and had relationships that grew and changed through the game. Villains were not simply evil incarnate, but had a past and motives beyond "death to everything because I say." Well, mostly. IV also featured a much larger and diverse cast of characters including:

- Cecil Harvey: The main character and a Dark Knight from the kingdom of Baron. In the game he has to discover the goodness within himself.

- Rosa Farrell: A white mage and Cecil's girlfriend (fiancé?). She supports Cecil and stands at his side.

- Kain Highwind: A childhood friend of Cecil's. He also harbors feelings for Rosa, but doesn't pursue them out of respect for the pair.

- Rydia: A summoner orphaned through Cecil's actions. She learns to trust Cecil and fight's at his side.

- Tellah: An old mage who has sworn revenge upon the man who killed his daughter. Dislikes spoony bards.

- Edward von Muir: A spoony bard, but also maybe something more regal in disguise. Edward was in love with Tellah's daughter, and assisted Cecil after she died.

- Yang Fang: A monk from Fabul. Yang joins Cecil after his kingdom is attacked by Baron.

- Palom and Porom: Two children mages from the village of Mysidia. They are assigned to assist Cecil in his ordeals and ultimately give everything to help him.

- Edge: Prince of Eblan and a ninja. Edge has a personal vendetta against Cecil's enemies and assists Cecil in defeating them.

- Cid Pollendina: We'll get to him later.

Systems introduced to the series by IV:

- The Active Time Battle system. Rather than each character in battle patiently waiting their turn to strike, battles ran in somewhat real time. A specific amount of real time would have to pass before a character, whether an enemy or PC, could have a turn. This meant the battle continually advanced without pause. If set to "Active" enemies would even attack if the player was in a menu looking for an item or spell.

- Characters now had a preset role (inspired by the "Job system" from III) that could not be changed. They learned spells and abilities by levelling up with no other input from the player. There are only two instances where a character changes roles or grows within their roles; these are both determined by the story.

- The party line-up constantly changes throughout the game. Unlike later games, this is entirely decided by the story. Characters would enter or leave the party as the story dictated. The only constant was Cecil.

- Due to the lack of input into character's growth, players now had the use of up to 5 characters in battle at one time. This is the only FF game to allow more than 4 characters in battle.

Several different versions of IV have been released in NA:

- As Final Fantasy II for the SNES. This version had many changes to it beyond the simple name change. Primarily, the game was made much easier for the American audience. Certain rare items (like Ethers) were made more common while certain spells and abilities that added more strategy to game were removed. "II" was also edited slightly for content. This version was later released on the Wii's Virtual Console.

- Released as part of the "Final Fantasy Chronicles" collection for the PlayStation. It was released as IV for the first time. It contained the original version of the game (minus the changes made during its initial localization) and an new and improved translation. It also featured new FMVs before and after the game.

- Released as Final Fantasy IV for the GameBoy Advance. This version slightly upgraded the graphics in the battles menus and further improved the translation. It also added the "ATB bar" to the menu similar to later FF titles. Finally, it added the ability to switch party members later in the game and several new dungeons after the final boss has been beaten. Unfortunately, this version also included numerous bugs and glitches not in prior versions.

- A complete remake for the Nintendo DS. This made many slight changes to the game overall. Primarily, however, the game now had full 3D graphics and voice-acting during certain cutscenes. It also added a few more scenes to further flesh out the story. Also included was the new "augment" system which allowed characters to use additional abilities to their own and Whyt, a new summon for Rydia whose appearance is customizable and whose stats grow through various minigames.

Additionally, Final Fantasy IV is the "earliest" FF (but not the first) to receive a sequel. "Final Fantasy IV: The After Years" was released as an episodic game, similar to the original IV in gameplay, for mobile phones. It was released in NA as WiiWare for the Nintendo Wii. It takes place 17 years after the original game and showcases the return of every surviving character, plus some new characters such as Ceodore, Cecil and Rosa's son.

And finally, Cid Watch!:



Cid Pollendina is the first out of only two Cids to serve as a playable character. His appearance and role in the story is somewhat similar to III. He is the chief engineer in charge of Baron's airship fleet. Having more loyalty to Cecil, however, Cid joins him in his battle.


****

I will be playing the DS remake. The "FFII" version is... not really real. The PSX has awful loading times and the GBA version has all those weird glitches and such. The DS version is the best, IMO, minus some shaky voice acting.

[magus113]

It's a decent length for a handheld RPG. I think you could do it with grinding in 25-30 hours

[Ginkasa]

Just an update partially to say "Hey, I'm still playin!" but also because I'm bored.

Right now I'm about to enter the Tower of Babil. I've held off for a couple of days 'cause I really haven't had that much time to play and the Tower of Babil is a bit of a longer dungeon. Yes, I have "Quicksave," but I hate to quit in the middle of a dungeon.

Anyway....

Rather than writing an awesome novel or making a cool short video or concocting a plan to make in Hollywood I was thinking about the FF series the other day. Particularly I was thinking about a pattern I had once heard about. Basically, I had read once that "fans" considered the series to follow a "even/odd" pattern similarly to the Star Trek movies. However, instead of one being good and the other bad, the odds focused on gameplay and the evens focused on story. This only applied to I-VI.

I was thinking about that and decided they were wrong. While I do agree you could see a pattern with the odds and evens it wasn't what they thought. I think they both focus on story and gameplay equally (for the most part). It has more to do with the tone and themes of the games. Essentially, if someone played I, III, and V and told those were part of one series and then played II, IV, and VI and were told those were part of a different series, I think they could be easily convinced.

Let's look at the odds: I, III, and V. Each game has the "Job system" in some form. In "I" you choose the jobs at the very beginning and are stuck with them except for one optional upgrade. III and V allow you to switch throughout the game. V let's you trade abilities between jobs.

They also have stories that focus on crystals, elemental demons, and destined Warriors of Light. In each game there are 4 Warriors (with a replacement 5th member in V) that are predestined to be Warriors. They don't really rise up and prove their worth; they display crystals or orbs or Jobs and have their worth handed to them. In I and III (minus the DS remake) they don't even have names or personalities. Just their titles.

They battle not against empires or men, but forces larger than mere human comprehension. A mysterious dark force that steals light from the crystals or a demon from beyond time. The villains have no real personality or even motive beyond the death of everything.

The evens are different - II, IV, and VI. These games don't necessarily feature one continuous gameplay feature like the Job system, but they do have and different theme and tone from the other games.

For one, they each have a larger cast of characters each with personalities and personal histories with VI, of course, being the largest. Each hero is, if not necessarily a "normal" person, is also not destined to be a hero or a legend. They are gifted individuals who see evil in the world and rise up against it, even if the odds are stacked against their favor. They have relationships and hopes and dreams beyond just the current struggle or battle.

The enemies are also more complex and less ambiguous. The heroes battle earthly forces - empires and armies. The villains have reasons beyond simply "being evil" for their wicked ways. They're not demons or gods, at least not until the end - they're just really bad men.

The only hiccup to this formula is IV. It has crystals and Zermous pretty easily fits the bill for evil ambigous evil that wants to destroy existence. Also, while it doesn't have the Job system it does have characters who are clearly said to fit within the Jobs from the prior games. However, it also Golbez, who is just an really powerful (moon) man and armies and whatnot.

Maybe later I'll get into more detail about why I think the other pattern is bollocks.

[Typhoid]

I forgot I'm still playing IV! Oops.
I ended up getting stuck and didn't know what do to (most likely because of painkillers) so I gave up and haven't touched it in almost a week now. I'm probably very early on, still. My mans are only around level 20.

[magus113]

I got bit by the Modern Warfare 2 bug, and then I've been doing some charting with Earl since I found out about the double XP weekend last week. It also reminded me that I need to finish Eternal Sonata because it's good and I've barely touched it I want to say in the last month.

I'm all over the place.

[Ginkasa]

I mentioned in my previous post regardng a "gameplay/story" pattern that is supposed to be evident in the early FF titles. Basically, the odd games were supposed to focus on the gameplay while the evens simplified the gameplay while focusing on story. I also mentioned that I believe this pattern is complete dung. In the extreme delusion that anyone cares I will expand upon this belief. Please note, I did consider that maybe this pattern was dervied from the American I-III rather than the Japanese I-VI (which would completely change the dynamic, although I still think it wouldn't work), but I don't think 3 games is really enough for someone to ascertain a pattern.

So, I'll be breaking down each game and explaining why it doesn't fit the pattern. Remember, odd games are supposed to have simple stories with a greater focus on gameplay while even games are supposed have simple gameplay with a focus on story.


I: Really, since this is the first game its really hard to try to say whether it had an agenda in regards to a proposed pattern especially since there was not initially expected to be a sequel. Granted, it does have the simplest story of all the FF games and tells its story pretty poorly compared to to other jRPGs at the time, but I still don't think you could say it was the start of the pattern.

II: In the pattern's defense, II does have a more detailed and better told story than I. However, it also implemented an entirely new and different gameplay system in terms of stat increase. It also changed the gameplay around by switching up the 4th party member constantly throughough the game. Yes, you can say II has a larger focus on story, but you can't say it doesn't focus on gameplay (no matter how broken it is).

III: Its hard to really compare this one since I've never played the original Famicom version, but I still think it doesn't really fit the pattern. Sure, it introduces the Job system so there's definitely a focus on gameplay. I think the story, however, is no weaker than II's. Sure, you have nameless and faceless heroes in the original, but I feel that changes the tone more than quality. Basically, I think III comes off more as an epic poem whil II comes off more as a fantasy novel. Just different, but not inferior.

IV: This game, honestly, is the game that most closely fits the pattern. You have no choice over how your characters develop or who is in your party. Abilities are decided solely by level rather than purchasing them or levelling up jobs or whatnot. The story, of course, is the best one so far in the series. It has the best developed characters and the richest story at this point. However, it also introduced the ATB system which is the mostly widely used purely gameplay system in the series (and other series!) that wasn't initially introduced in I and is also the only game in the series to allow 5 characters in battle at once. I'd say they definitely had an eye on making it an exciting gameplay experience as well as story.

V: Once again we have the Job system. Perhaps the pattern was simply thought of because the odd games always use some form of the Job system which could be argued was pretty indepth for its time. Of course, they're ignoring that using the same system multiple times was probably easier than creating something from scratch. I'm not saying that there wasn't effort put into V (there are certainly refinements and adjustments and additions to the system from III), but I can't see how it shows the devleopers were focusing more on gameplay than story. While the story isn't as fantastic as IV, its still much better than the NES titles and has its moments. Let's just say Galuf's moment is better played than Tellah's.

VI: Yeah, arguably the best story in the series. You got me there. But it also introduced the Esper ability system (which spawned the Materia system in VII, certainly partially influenced the Junction system in VIII, is very similar to the ABility system in IX, etc.) and introduced Desparation Attacks which also influenced other similar systems in later games (most widely known are Limit Breaks from VII). It also has the most playable characters in the series each with their own unique abilities that may or may not be inspired by the Jobs from previous games. There's no way you could say the story came at the expense of the gameplay.

So, there you go. Sure, you could maybe argue that the evens games had the best stories, but I don't think you can argue that it was at the expense of the gameplay or that the odds have bad stories. Basically, people were just reading patterns into where they didn't belong.

Tune in next time as I rant on another random topic in the middle of the night!

[TheSlyMoogle]

Uhm 6 is really the only game that doesn't fit the pattern. 1,3 and 5 do have terrible stories. 5 is the worst offender in my opinion considering the time of its creation. It's pretty obvious in that game the just focused basically on the battle system. Honestly the guy probably wrote the game script in like a night while drinking copious amounts of Saki.

2 and 4 are basically just a story. You can honestly go through both just mashing buttons if you fight enough random battles.

6 is the only one with something different to offer, however... 90% of the bosses and enemies in the game can be defeated with the vanish/doom technique and there's another technique that can be used on those who can't. So I think 6 can go either way. Yeah you can make it complex, or you can just go with it.

[Ginkasa]

Originally Posted by TheSlyMoogle

Uhm 6 is really the only game that doesn't fit the pattern. 1,3 and 5 do have terrible stories. 5 is the worst offender in my opinion considering the time of its creation. It's pretty obvious in that game the just focused basically on the battle system. Honestly the guy probably wrote the game script in like a night while drinking copious amounts of Saki.

2 and 4 are basically just a story. You can honestly go through both just mashing buttons if you fight enough random battles.

6 is the only one with something different to offer, however... 90% of the bosses and enemies in the game can be defeated with the vanish/doom technique and there's another technique that can be used on those who can't. So I think 6 can go either way. Yeah you can make it complex, or you can just go with it.

Okay, so rather than "Uhm, no you're dumb"ing each other why don't we actually refer to points and actually debate on something tangible than "No, I'm right because!"?

Regarding the stories, its subjective in the end. V, maybe, sure. Its not that great, but it has its moments. You disagree, so okay. I don't agree with III. Like I said before, its just different. I think the individual "episodes" within the towns and whatnot are much more memorable than the entire story of II. I can see how someone might prefer II's story, though. Again, subjective. They're just different. I is just primitive. It might not be good, but you can't say they didn't try; they didn't focus on the story.

Gameplay, however, I think you're wrong. II, yes, may be broken. It might ultimately boil down to "A, B, A, B, A" for an hour and instant win. But the system itself was brand new and it was pretty risky for a company who just on the verge of closure and only saved by a single game to completely alter the gameplay to the sequel to that game. It might be broken and easily exploitable, but there was definitely a lot of focus put on creating that system.

You're argument against IV's gameplay is silly, IMO. Pretty much any FF game can be beaten by levelling up enough or exploiting whatever system is in place. Now, granted, I did say that IV fits the bill the most. The player has no input on character development or abilities beyond levelling up. However, the additional abilities and switching up the party with completely different characters adds a lot to the gameplay. Its out of the player's control, sure, but it works. I'd say it works better than III's Job System.

And VI... really? I've never heard of the Vanish/Doom technique. Maybe its there and maybe it cheapens the gameplay. Same thing with II, though: just because its broken doesn't mean it wasn't focused upon. VI pretty much decided the path series took from then on. Pretty much everything it introduced got carried on in future games. You may not like it, there may be two spells that can be easily exploited, but the gameplay was definitely not glossed over in favor of the story.