IGN Revolution channel open

[BreakABone]

Originally Posted by Null

well if ps3 and x360 allow for keyboard/mice, then they've arleady have the top level of control over the lution controller, theres no doubt that nitnendos controller will be better then a normal controller for FPS, but every review i've read from people who've tried it admit it still doesnt touch the pc setup.

Just curious you read the part about it not touching the PC set-up.

As for keyboard/mice on PS3/X360 it may run into the problem most accessories do and that is usage. I mean the controller is standard so developers have to implent it into their games, some will, some won't.

and with icon passing in sports games, i think its still alot easier to press X to pass to the person with X over thier head then anything this controller could do.
Say you could throw it like a real foot ball in the direction you want to throw your pass....
Fun? oh hell yea, it would be a blast.
Practical? sadly no, expecially in the age of competitive gaming, you using something thats 'fun' and someone else using something for more precision, they're gunna win, and they're gunna have more fun because of the win.
Having something be fun to me does not replace a better way of controlling something.

I don't think this point is entirely true. Well atleast on a whole.
There are people who buy fishing rods for games or steering wheels for racing game.
The games are built around the controller yes, but people find it more immersive to actually have a device they can control. While the Rev doesn't necessarily take the shape, it does allow a certain level of interaction as you control the action with your body.

Its like this I guess, have you ever played or known someoen who played a game and leaned their body in one way or another trying to well I guess control whats going on?

I don't know the last point with fun/precision. Case and point is most people will be using the Rev controller all at once. Unless, you are referring to playing a game on the 360 compared to the Rev.. then er I don't know

the way nintendos controller works, is setup on the sensors you have to put around your TV, which makes it an accessory to the main console. Now if by some chance this controller succeeds, what really would be stopping Sony or MS from producing an addon that does the same thing... then either of them claiming they have both the graphics AND the controller then.

Well, I'm sure its possible.
And it could very well happen.

But two things really stand out to me.

1)Rev would of had it first and its a console built around it. Its the way there were more games that used the analog stick on the n64 than the dual shock on the original PSX or the games that used 6 buttons on the Genesis.

2)Basically same point, but it would be an accessory to the console. It would be added money to the consumer and then something developers have to factor in about userbase who have it versus those who don't.

i think nintendo is trying to let MS and Sony battle each other, but i think they're putting themselves in a spot that they may not be able to climb out of later on.

It is quite 50/50 in this regard. they could als elevate themselves to a status that neither the Ps3 nor 360 can touch because they don't offer the same level of control.

Look at it this way, people still playing Genesis and Nintendo and PSX and it isn't because of the graphics.

A good game is a good game because it plays well. Graphics help a ton, I won't deny that. But once you get past how it looks, you need some type of substance. Games aren't moving pictures they are more an interactive story.

The example I was fond of was in the days of the n64/PSX.

PSX had the SmackDown series which by far the most featured packed and best looking wrestling series at the time (to a point it still is)

But the n64 had AKI's series which well not better looking nor touting as many features as the Smackdown was the much much better series by a long shot. Simply because the gameplay was hands down far superior.


Now this all however assumes that they actually deliver on games.

I mean look at Sunshine, it was supposed to spout some magical feature, and it really didn't. And in many regards was inferior to Mario 64 at least in my books.

[Xantar]

If Nintendo can outsell the PSP with a game about petting puppies (with graphics that were really not much better than the N64), I think there's a distinct possibility that the Revolution will be a best-seller too.

[Null]

Originally Posted by BreakABone

Just curious you read the part about it not touching the PC set-up.

not sure what you mean there.

As for keyboard/mice on PS3/X360 it may run into the problem most accessories do and that is usage. I mean the controller is standard so developers have to implent it into their games, some will, some won't.

i think this a whole different ball game then what your pointing out.
for 1, we're talkin FPS games, not maping a keyboard out to use a platformer, that would be silly.
keyboard support is already in many of the online games that consoles use.. basic keyboard support is VERY easy to impliment.

i can almost guarantee that all the FPS companies making these FPS games for PS3 and x360 that make em for PC are going to add the keyboard support if the console allows them to. (the console only developers will follow suit afterwards) In many of these games, like Unreal tourmanent 2007, Quake 4, Call of Duty, Half Life 2, etc. that have been developed on PC, will/already have the keyboard functions built into them, they just lie unused on a console that doesnt let it use it.

because for keyboard controls YOU develop the config. not them, when they have to design a game for 2 completely different controllers, they have to make up things to add and take away buttons. to figure out how they can get one thing done on another controller thats layed out different.

this is nothing like adding keyboard/mouse support. where you go into the control settings and tell it i want e to be move foward, and this key to jump. or that key to shoot.


IF the consoles allow the developers to add the support... then Keyboard/mouse support will be STANDARD for FPS games on consoles by the end of the new gen.

I don't think this point is entirely true. Well atleast on a whole.
There are people who buy fishing rods for games or steering wheels for racing game.
The games are built around the controller yes, but people find it more immersive to actually have a device they can control. While the Rev doesn't necessarily take the shape, it does allow a certain level of interaction as you control the action with your body.

Its like this I guess, have you ever played or known someoen who played a game and leaned their body in one way or another trying to well I guess control whats going on?

I don't know the last point with fun/precision. Case and point is most people will be using the Rev controller all at once. Unless, you are referring to playing a game on the 360 compared to the Rev.. then er I don't know

yea, but fishing rods, are something you play on your own for fun, and i dont know they may be easier to play then a controller i've never played em.

Steering wheels in racing games ARE the more procise and easier way to race. like, if someone were to go online with a racing game, one using a controller, one using a steering wheel. i'd give the advantage to the one using the wheel. he can control speed and turning much smoother and more accuratly then the person with the controller.



What im saying for nintendos new controller, is while it may be a more fun way to control such and such game, it may not be the BEST way to control it. it all depends on the game. i'd love to use it on sports games and try it out, but i wouldnt want to seriously play a sports game using it. i'd want the better way.

[DeathsHand]

Originally Posted by BreakABone

Look at it this way, people still playing Genesis and Nintendo and PSX and it isn't because of the graphics.

I think that many of the people who still play 'the classics' are ones who actually grew up with the games... They're fueled by nostalgia and familiarity...

I can pull out an NES/SNES game I played as a wee boy and still thoroughly enjoy it...
Yet when a friend or someone else recommends an amazing OL' SKOOL game that I just have to play, I find it extremely hard to get into...

Originally Posted by Xantar

If Nintendo can outsell the PSP with a game about petting puppies (with graphics that were really not much better than the N64), I think there's a distinct possibility that the Revolution will be a best-seller too.

Not sure if that's a fair comparison, as they're two different markets (The ability to have something to do 'on the go' can appeal to someone who might not really be interested in sitting around at home playing games, and they'd probably be the kind of consumer that's more inclined to spend 130 on a DS than 250 on a PSP), and, as a PSP owner, the DS admittedly has a lot more going for it than "a game about petting puppies"... And the PSP has a lot less going for it than it should...

Whereas PS3 will likely have the same, full-on developer support that the PS2 has, and Revolution... Welllll... That's up in the air for now...

[BreakABone]

Originally Posted by Null

not sure what you mean there.

I was referring to...

theres no doubt that nitnendos controller will be better then a normal controller for FPS, but every review i've read from people who've tried it admit it still doesnt touch the pc setup.

I ahven't actually seen any review that made reference to it in comparision to a PC setup.

i think this a whole different ball game then what your pointing out.
for 1, we're talkin FPS games, not maping a keyboard out to use a platformer, that would be silly.
keyboard support is already in many of the online games that consoles use.. basic keyboard support is VERY easy to impliment.

i can almost guarantee that all the FPS companies making these FPS games for PS3 and x360 that make em for PC are going to add the keyboard support if the console allows them to. (the console only developers will follow suit afterwards) In many of these games, like Unreal tourmanent 2007, Quake 4, Call of Duty, Half Life 2, etc. that have been developed on PC, will/already have the keyboard functions built into them, they just lie unused on a console that doesnt let it use it.

because for keyboard controls YOU develop the config. not them, when they have to design a game for 2 completely different controllers, they have to make up things to add and take away buttons. to figure out how they can get one thing done on another controller thats layed out different.

this is nothing like adding keyboard/mouse support. where you go into the control settings and tell it i want e to be move foward, and this key to jump. or that key to shoot.


IF the consoles allow the developers to add the support... then Keyboard/mouse support will be STANDARD for FPS games on consoles by the end of the new gen.

I'll be frank here.

i don't know and I don't care. I really don't like FPSers.

yea, but fishing rods, are something you play on your own for fun, and i dont know they may be easier to play then a controller i've never played em.

Maybe its just me, but I play all video games for fun

Steering wheels in racing games ARE the more procise and easier way to race. like, if someone were to go online with a racing game, one using a controller, one using a steering wheel. i'd give the advantage to the one using the wheel. he can control speed and turning much smoother and more accuratly then the person with the controller.

I think we've been through this before on AIM.
But I really think it deals with a level of comfort no matter what you are using.

In general it may be easier to control with a steering wheel but someone who can master the game with a controller is pretty much in the same boat.

Same way some people work better with certain setups than others.

What im saying for nintendos new controller, is while it may be a more fun way to control such and such game, it may not be the BEST way to control it. it all depends on the game. i'd love to use it on sports games and try it out, but i wouldnt want to seriously play a sports game using it. i'd want the better way.

How do you know the better way yet?
I mean you have to give it a try before you claim the conventional way is the only way.

And no controller works well for EVERY genre of game.. its pretty much impossible I think. There are games in most genres that may work around a controller but eh.

Case in point, I still find the PSX/PS2 controller akward for wrestling games and any game that uses dual analog.

And we know Cube controller sucks for fighters and pretty much anything you need the D-Pad for.

Fact of the matter is if they can find ways to cater to their strenghts they have an advantage.

There are lots of doubts, I have.

I don't see how wrestling games would work. (yes if you haven't picked it up enjoy wrestling games)

On the same note, I don't see how fighting games may work.

But I can see it working for like RTS or FPS or racers.

I think that many of the people who still play 'the classics' are ones who actually grew up with the games... They're fueled by nostalgia and familiarity...

I can pull out an NES/SNES game I played as a wee boy and still thoroughly enjoy it...
Yet when a friend or someone else recommends an amazing OL' SKOOL game that I just have to play, I find it extremely hard to get into...

That is a good point.

But I really think it is about the games.

I mean just look at the Mario Advance ports, which sold real well, I highly doubt that was nostalgia sakes, I believe those games really hold up well no matter if you grew up on them or not.

But yeah there are games/genres that have been vastly improved that just seem so weird playing on older systems. It happens it even happens in a generation, I believe.

I guess an example I can use is my roommate.

Who prefers NBA Live 2004 on the Xbox to any other version of the game before or after it. Even though newer versions may look better or add more stuff. I guess it was just a combination of things in that one game that made it the best overall for him.

[Null]

FPS issue, you dont play em, not point in talking about it with you because you'll never understand.


Fun issue. we are different, i play games for the competitiveness, that IS whats fun to me, and using something built for fun but less accurate isnt for me. i dont play many single player games anymore.


Steering wheel issue. Person A masters wheel, Person B masters controller. If they were to race i still give the advantage to the person with the wheel. sorry but any way i look at it he has more control. soft corner, person with the controller taps the key to turn it slightly or messes with the stick, person with the wheel just casually turns it like a real car.
Its kinda like driving a real car vs. driving a remote control car.


and that last issue all i said was what MAY be the more fun way isnt always what MAY be the best way. i've metnioned many times, and in that post even that i want to try it.

[BreakABone]

Originally Posted by Null

FPS issue, you dont play em, not point in talking about it with you because you'll never understand.

I understand this much.

But have let to give me examples of people who had hand's on experience with it who claimed the PC setup was better.

[quote]Steering wheel issue. Person A masters wheel, Person B masters controller. If they were to race i still give the advantage to the person with the wheel. sorry but any way i look at it he has more control. soft corner, person with the controller taps the key to turn it slightly or messes with the stick, person with the wheel just casually turns it like a real car.
Its kinda like driving a real car vs. driving a remote control car.

and that last issue all i said was what MAY be the more fun way isnt always what MAY be the best way. i've metnioned many times, and in that post even that i want to try it.

What I got from your post is that while you would give it the time of the day. You have already dismissed it as a novelty that can't replace standard ways to play games.

Maybe I read it wrong

What im saying for nintendos new controller, is while it may be a more fun way to control such and such game, it may not be the BEST way to control it. it all depends on the game. i'd love to use it on sports games and try it out, but i wouldnt want to seriously play a sports game using it. i'd want the better way.

It justs that line honestly.

[DeathsHand]

Originally Posted by BreakABone

But I really think it is about the games.

I mean just look at the Mario Advance ports, which sold real well, I highly doubt that was nostalgia sakes, I believe those games really hold up well no matter if you grew up on them or not.

True, it is about the games to some extent... A port of a crappy or no-name game probably wouldn't sell as well...

But at the same time, that's GBA we're talking about... Graphically the ports of the Mario games were, for the most part, on-par with the rest of the games for that system...

Of course there's the NES classics line, which has the old NES graphics... Not sure how those sold though...

[Canyarion]

Guys, we could also wait till we (see someone) play Mario on the Revolution.

The NES AGB games weren't for much more than nostalgia if you'd ask me... I'd feel cheated if I would find out what the first Zelda looked liked after I bought it for my AGB.

[Null]

Originally Posted by BreakABone

I understand this much.

But have let to give me examples of people who had hand's on experience with it who claimed the PC setup was better.

cuz you never asked


doesnt matter tho. i woudlnt of anyway. unless i have something book marked, im not going to go searching to try and find that for something silly like this. hehe

if i stumble apon em again i'll be sure to show ya.

[BreakABone]

Originally Posted by Null

cuz you never asked


doesnt matter tho. i woudlnt of anyway. unless i have something book marked, im not going to go searching to try and find that for something silly like this. hehe

if i stumble apon em again i'll be sure to show ya.

I did ask somewhat.. but anyhow..

i've only stumbled upon one and seems to be the opposite of what you said..

As odd as it may look holding the two separate controller pieces, one in each hand, looking around felt incredibly natural, even more than my preferred PC-style keyboard-and-mouse setup.

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3143782

Anyhow, I figured, i would also post this MTV article that has some feedback from game developers

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/151...headlines=true

"Within a matter of weeks we had literally dozens if not well over a hundred kinds of play patterns that could be done with the controller," he said. "There's almost too much that people can think of, which is a sign that it's inspirational."

Sorenson wasn't as sold on using the wireless controller for driving games, suggesting that a conventional controller's analog stick might allow for less awkward handling of tight corners.

"There are a number of things you can imagine that a Revolution controller [could do] that would be quite cool," he said. He rattled off a bunch: "Wielding a baseball bat, for example, or a golf club, tennis racket or anything like that or in a fighting game or a first-person shooter or Spider-Man casting a web or Tony Hawk trying to manipulate a skateboard."

"I've heard some of the reaction of the EA sports guys, and they're the ones that are off the hook with what you can do with a two-controller setup."

[Null]

thats not the oppsite of what i said at all, he said it felt nateral, as in holding it. hell the gamecube controller feels the most nateral to hold out of the 3 consoles of its gen. He even says he has to wonder about the speed and precision in multiplayer games in the sentence after that.

speed and precision is exactly what PC FPS gaming with a keyboard and mouse is.


but as i said, you dont play em, your never gunna understand this no matter how much we talk about this.





And i never said developers wernt saying good things about it. so nothing to argue over there.

infact they'd have to say good things about it, thoes who are dumb enough to say something bad about new hardware end up having to eat thier words if the hardware ends up being good.

they said good things about virtual boy too.


But thats not to say this isnt really good and they're being honest., because i think they are being honest.

[BreakABone]

Originally Posted by Null

thats not the oppsite of what i said at all, he said it felt nateral, as in holding it. hell the gamecube controller feels the most nateral to hold out of the 3 consoles of its gen. He even says he has to wonder about the speed and precision in multiplayer games in the sentence after that.

speed and precision is exactly what PC FPS gaming with a keyboard and mouse is.


but as i said, you dont play em, your never gunna understand this no matter how much we talk about this.

Its not a mater of not playing them, I do. Just not as a habit.

But what I don't understand, atleast from thew few I played is.

The analog stick in my opinion beats the hell out of WASD for movement as it gives you a bit wider degree of movement. The reason the keyboard/mouse ruled supreme was mainly because aiming and looking with the mouse were far superior than any controller could offer you.

Now the Revmote basically acts like the mouse and they have an analog stick, best of both worlds unless I'm missing something.

Granted no matter what, it will be almost impossible to have instant access to most of your weapons like on the PC because of the number keys but eh.

And i never said developers wernt saying good things about it. so nothing to argue over there.

infact they'd have to say good things about it, thoes who are dumb enough to say something bad about new hardware end up having to eat thier words if the hardware ends up being good.

I'm sorry if you took that the wrong way. It wasn't aimed at you or anyone, I just posted the article because well it just came out yesterday. Figured no sense in er... starting a new thread.

[Null]

its got a flavor of both worlds. not the best.

and a analog stick will give you more of a fine tune, like say you want to move just a hair foward or backwards, while keyboard you would have to very quickly tap the key. It doesnt give you any wider rage of movment, because used correcty it would only be used for foward/backwars/stepleft/stepright. it gives you a finer level of controlling slight movments which doesnt help for multiplayer but may help for more of Metroids style. to get to the edge of something and jump somewhere.

however the esdf (or wasd as some would use for unknown reasons) is highly faster, and its not all about movements and weapons, theres so much more that it gives you having any key to use for anything you want all around you.

the remote acts LIKE a mouse in some ways, but if you wanna know what its more comparable to, would be the mouse pens for a PC (doubt they really still make em) but i used one many years ago and its a pen, plugged in, and you point at at the screen and the mouse moves where you point. the remote is a great advantage over controllers in FPS games, mouse is still more accurate and a ton faster.

and you'll say wait till i try it to make that comment, and i will try it, however im telling you right now, i know the technology, and i know of many things like it. the reason the mouse will still be the better choice in FPS games is because its lying on a flat surface and not being held in the air. the table giving you some resistance ups the accuracy.
but again, it will be tried and tested when it comes out.

[The Duggler]

How can you say that keyboard/mouse is highly or a ton faster than the nunchaku? You did some tests or something? If one's faster than the other, it won't be by a ton.

And the rev controller will feel much more natural for fps, just by making you feel like you hold an actual gun.

I'm pretty sure that the nunchaku will revolutionize FPS.