Politically Incorrect: Gay Marriage

[TheGame]

Originally Posted by Vampyr

What, no shades of gray? If wrong is wrong, as you say, and right is right, then why would you except a brother marrying his sister before you would a guy marrying another guy? They are both wrong, according to the christain religon. A sin is a sin, is a sin, right? You can preach to them all you want, you have that right. Its one of the goals of Christains, to convert the entire world. But in the end, the choice is theirs.

lol... have pretty much read the whole Bible... and I can't quite remember it saying brother/sister relationships are wrong. (Maybe just don't remember?)

You mentioned that they are just hurting themselves, and that they cant tell the difference between right and wrong. They're gay, not stupid. If they dont see anything wrong with being gay, then fine. If they are condeming themselves to Hell or whatever, than thats their choice too.

I never said that it isn't thier choice and I didn't call them stupid. Some don't see anything wrong with stealing, killing, or commiting adultry... hell, some don't find anything wrong with letting a goat give them oral sex. I mean NOTHING wrong with it, if the law protects it or not.

Just because one can't tell the difference beween right and wrong it doesn't mean they are right. If one acted on all thier fleshly desires because in thier mind it's right, it doesn't mean it's right. right?

Now, being gay doesn't hurt anybody else, that's why I think people find it acceptable... like I said before, they are only hurting themselves.

I realize I cant change your mind, but this is just what I believe, you can question it all you want, but you can't change it.

lol, nice

[Joeiss]

Originally Posted by Bond

By the way, does anyone see Church attendance going way down in the near future?

Nope. Most of the Christians that I know either a) support gay marriage or b) just don't give a damn.

Going to Church is to learn about Jesus and what he did. We also learn how to apply his teachings to our everyday life. He taught us not to discriminate against anyone, so I will not discriminate against homosexual people. It's that simple.

[Bond]

Justin, the bottom line is that you have a religious, but not a political argument. All you need for a religious argument is your faith, for a political argument you actually need some factual points. The only political argument I could think of against gay marriage is that you could turn it into a society issue... but that still shouldn't work.

[TheGame]

Originally Posted by GiMpY-wAnNaBe

how can you accept siblings getting married before gays??? if siblings get married and they have children odds are their gonna have eleven toes, or some other genetic mutation. What happens when two gay ppl get married? nothing! their just with the person they want to be with, nothing more, that and they get the benefits from the government for being married, who does that hurt??? how does that affect YOU???

lol, some would use your arguement against you, I mean, if gay people can't have kids what purpose do they serve? I dunno about you, but I would rather Adam and Eve be brother and sister than be gay and not want to have anything to do with each-other. Thus the reason I would accept any

It doesn't effect me now... and I hope it never does. That is all I can say as far as a personal reply.

[Bond]

Originally Posted by TheGame

if gay people can't have kids what purpose do they serve?

Wow, that's actually a good point. But this fact still remains which we've said before: God created all humans in his likeness. I believe it is quite obvious that gay people are born gay. That would mean that God created gay people in his likeness. Care to justifiy that one?

[TheGame]

Originally Posted by Bond

Justin, the bottom line is that you have a religious, but not a political argument. All you need for a religious argument is your faith, for a political argument you actually need some factual points.

exactly, thus the reason it's pointles to argue, wht I see as fact and what sombody else sees as fact could be two completly different things that can't be proven either way.

The only thing I agree on with people in this thread is that gay people don't hurt anybody else physically.

[TheGame]

Originally Posted by Bond

Wow, that's actually a good point. But this fact still remains which we've said before: God created all humans in his likeness. I believe it is quite obvious that gay people are born gay. That would mean that God created gay people in his likeness. Care to justifiy that one?

-Good, take it to the relgious side -

Ok, according to the bible, all men are born sinners. That is the simple explination. The best man can do is try not to sin, and ask for forgiveness... no matter how strong the urge is. Nobody is born with a sexual drive, so babies aren't 'gay' or 'straight' they haven't and can't make that decisision yet.

As far as creation in god's likeness, that was refering to us having free will and the ability to reason not how we act on our free will and reasoning.

[Professor S]

Game, say the tables are turned. Say being gay is the norm both socially and religiously. But you're born heterosexual and have absolutely no attraction to other men and even find it disgusting. So, knowing this, you would never EVER take a woman as your wife or see one romantically? You would never have sex with a woman or have act on your erotic thoughts?

[TheGame]

Originally Posted by The Strangler

Lets disect this argument for a moment:

1) We live in a secular society, not a religious one. Your religious ideals of "sin" based on the bible have nothing to do with whether or not it should be legal under out constitution.

2) Ok, how does being gay equate to incest? And lets try to not make too much of a stretch here when you attempt to explain.

3) You ask us if we know whats going on in a gay person's mind. Well, do you? Didn't think so. In fact most modern evidence suggests that gay people are born that way. Wait a second... aren't all men created in God's image???? GOD'S A BI-SEXUAL!!!!! Mind blowing...

Also, if you are going to attempt to back up the legal aspects of why gay marriage should be banned, lets keep religion out of it, as it has no place in our government. I'm interested in your non-religious arguments.

As for religious arguments, if all men are made with free will according to the bible, why should we make gay marriage illegal considering it doesn't HURT ANYONE? Isn't it up to God to make that judgement when they die? I also remember something about "judging" in the bible too, and how we humans shouldn't do it.

lol... read my other arguements for 'religios' answers.

As for non-religious reasons to make it illegal, I have nothing against it... my whole bias is based religion. I have hinted at it many times in this thread, but I would like to make it clear.

Game, say the tables are turned. Say being gay is the norm both socially and religiously. But you're born heterosexual and have absolutely no attraction to other men and even find it disgusting. So, knowing this, you would never EVER take a woman as your wife or see one romantically? You would never have sex with a woman or have act on your erotic thoughts?

lol... of course I would still be who I am... But this is a 'what if' question that holds no water in a arguement. If the only way to have babies remained the same, I would use that as my arguement to jutify my actions as more than just a sexual desire.

A better question would have been: what if I woke up tomorrow morning and I was a girl. Keeping all my same thoughs about women. In that case I would have to chose between my faith and my fleshly desire.... and that would be a ****ed up situation...

What I would do is simply never be married, and pray about it... if I had to chose between going to hell and having sex with women, I would never touch a girl again, and just never be attracted to a guy.

-EDIT- had to make this more clear

I would not have any sexual relationship of any type with anybody.

[TheGame]

Originally Posted by Kitana85

If gay's could get married, they wouldn't be having sex out of marriage... besides, who would want to be gay.. I mean, people don't tend to go out of their way to get persecuted... what ever...

I just think they should be able to get the same medical benefits as straight people... it comes down to this

If two gay men have been together for as many as 25 years, as one is dying, the other WOULD NOT BE ALLOWED AT HIS LIFE-PARTNER'S BEDSIDE AS HE DIED. He would have no claim to any of his partners belonings, and if the house was in his partners name, he would have no claim to that.

The dignity of both are taken away and their is no recourse... they can't even be with their partner as they die, as a husband of wife could be.

It's funny that you say that, because I have gay uncle who has been in a relationship for about 5 years and his partner died and he didn't get crap. Does it suck? Yes. I'm not that heartless that I would say this is not a terrible thing. But still, being gay is a sin, period. If I had to chose between supporting the gay community or not supporting it, I would chose not to support it.

the only thing I would protect them aganst is any form of physical violence. I support the right to live, but in no way shape or form support sin.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by TheGame

I would not have any sexual relationship of any type with anybody.

So you never plan on having sex with anyone ever?

BTW, but "lol" in front of your posts does not validate your opinions nor invalidate those who disagree with you. It comes off more as a nervous defense mechanism.

[gekko]

Originally Posted by TheGame

if gay people can't have kids what purpose do they serve?

They can adopt kids, it's not like we don't have plenty out there who need families.

And if you really want to go along the lines that humans need to reproduce to exist, they can reproduce as well as straight. If there are only 4 people left, 2 male, 2 female, and they're all gay, they may feel no sexual attraction to the opposite sex, but they can still have sex and reproduce. The gay men could help the lesbian couple have kids. Just need to learn to cooperate with one another.

[One Winged Angel]

Originally Posted by Bond

Politically Incorrect: Should the United States legalize Gay Marriage?

Well, this is quite a serious issue our society is faced with. As you know the Bible says gay marriage is wrong. But we'll get to that later. First lets look at why people would want to legalize gay marriage. When you get married you get married through the church and you become legally married. Currently gays are only allowed to get married through some churches and are not able to get married through the courts. Now you wouldn't think this should be such a big issue, but it is. When you become legally married you receive a lot of benefits - such as more money back on tax cuts. As you can see this pisses off a lot of gay couples because they are not legally recognized as a being married and don't get the great benefits.

Now, people have been known to be gay as far back as we can tell, it was just never such a large issue. Scientists are also fairly certained you are either born homosexual or hetrosexual. I mean, who would actually want to be gay? You may wonder why people do not approve of gay couples. It's mainly because the Bible says that gay marriage is a bad thing. But lets remember that the Bible is a book that is over 2,000 years old and has been edited countless times. And if gay marriage was such a bad thing why didn't Jesus ever talk about it? Jesus stressed treating everyone fairly and giving people justice. And if God made all humans, obviously he made some of them gay. But then why would the Bible say it is a bad thing?

Personally I think we should legalize gay marriage. But I'm interested in hearing your opinions. I want to try to make this as an intelligent discussion as possible. So whether or not you agree with someone, you have to respect their opinion. Open the floodgates.

Everyone here woulld most likely think that I would be the last person to be against gay marriages, but surprisingly I am. The Bible is against gay marriage, and I can understand that. We should not force churches into doing something that is clearly against their policy as a devoted believer.

Now, people have been known to be gay as far back as we can tell, it was just never such a large issue. Scientists are also fairly certained you are either born homosexual or hetrosexual. I mean, who would actually want to be gay?

That is true, but there are guys who want to be gay. Those are the flaming homos that walk around with tight shirts on. It's not all genetic that people are gay. It can easily be from their childhood or hobbies. I bet 50% of all homosexuals could be straight if they wanted to.

It's mainly because the Bible says that gay marriage is a bad thing. But lets remember that the Bible is a book that is over 2,000 years old and has been edited countless times. And if gay marriage was such a bad thing why didn't Jesus ever talk about it?

Jesus really never talked about it because by the time he was around homosexuals realy weren't much of an issue then.

The bible has been edited, yes. I dont think it's been edited to an extent that people have added whatever they thought was bad. The bible is the word of god, not the word of other opinions.

Jesus stressed treating everyone fairly and giving people justice. And if God made all humans, obviously he made some of them gay. But then why would the Bible say it is a bad thing?

Again, god didn't make them gay. Science really can't prove that homosexuality is genetic. It is a decision men and women make. Even if it is in your genes, you can stil be straight. Jesus wanted everyone treated evenly if they folow the word of god.

I'm not saying no against gay marriages in general, just throughtout the church.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by One Winged Angel

That is true, but there are guys who want to be gay. Those are the flaming homos that walk around with tight shirts on. It's not all genetic that people are gay. It can easily be from their childhood or hobbies. I bet 50% of all homosexuals could be straight if they wanted to.

And you are basing this on what? Also, the "flaming homos" comment is pulling a LOT of steam out of your argument. I have a friend who is gay, and he didn't start out as a "flaming homo", but he eventually became one through hanging out with gay people after he caame out of the closet. I think this is a result of feeling repressed for 20 some odd years and feeling like something was wrong with him, rather than he just wants to be gay. Considering the amount of prejudice that homosexuals face in America, I don't think anyone would pick that if they had a choice.

Jesus really never talked about it because by the time he was around homosexuals realy weren't much of an issue then.

Um, NO. Homosexuals were around a LONG time before Jesus. There are many accounts of gay bath houses in Rome and many other cultures before the birth of Christ. Christ hung out with 12 guys... what does that tell you? (Ok, that was a REALLY bad joke)

The bible has been edited, yes. I dont think it's been edited to an extent that people have added whatever they thought was bad. The bible is the word of god, not the word of other opinions.

Thats your religious opinion, not necessarily true. Plus there are even holes in your argument. The Bible has been translated and retranslated numerous times. These were all done by man. If man if inherently fallable, whats to say there weren't mistakes. Maybe God loves Homos and we straight guys are going to burn in hell.

Again, god didn't make them gay. Science really can't prove that homosexuality is genetic. It is a decision men and women make. Even if it is in your genes, you can stil be straight. Jesus wanted everyone treated evenly if they folow the word of god.

Science can't PROVE that gay men are born straight. Can you PROVE that being gay is just a choice or that God didn't make them that way? I even challenge to to find the part of the Bible that states that God didn't make people gay. Also, if Jesus (who is an extension of God) wanted to treat everyone evenly to follow the word of God, then why are some peope gay, and most aren't? It doesn't sound like they are being treated evenly to me.

I'm not saying no against gay marriages in general, just throughtout the church.

I think each church should be allowed to make their own decision on that, except the Catholic church because their own stance in hippocritical considering the actively harbor perverted homosexual priests. At least most gay people aren't predators, unlike those that the Catholic Church protects.

But churches are independent bodies separate from the government, so they are free to chose whatever they like. The question is whether or not the government should get involved, which they have no right to.

Why the government has not gotten involved in whole pedophile priest ordeal, I have no idea. Last time I heard an adult sexually forcing themselves on a minor was against the law.

[TheGame]

Originally Posted by The Strangler

So you never plan on having sex with anyone ever?

If I were gay I wouldn't... I don't plan on doing any sins, because in a way, that's commiting a sin in itself. If I were planning to ave sex with a girl (if I were a girl) I might as well be planning on robbing a bank and killing sombody... Either way I'm hurting myself, and I would pay for it.

They can adopt kids, it's not like we don't have plenty out there who need families.

And if you really want to go along the lines that humans need to reproduce to exist, they can reproduce as well as straight. If there are only 4 people left, 2 male, 2 female, and they're all gay, they may feel no sexual attraction to the opposite sex, but they can still have sex and reproduce. The gay men could help the lesbian couple have kids. Just need to learn to cooperate with one another.

they could... but I have heard that it's extremely hard for a virgin woman to go through child birth. I don't want to go through the details. just hope thre of those people are doctors.

-EDIT-

One Winged Angel has a bit more 'personal' experience in this subject than you or me.... To be honest, I am shocked that he didn't take your side full on.