North Korea Missile Fails After 35 Seconds

[Xantar]

Originally Posted by Fox 6

I just have to say something to correct your statement. Its nothing arguing against Kim's brutality. It's just by definition facists are anti-communist. The both ideologies couldn't be more opposite, the hate each other. Sorry to be anal but I couldnt help myself.

I actually think Strangler's termis quite apt particularly since Kim Jong Il is very much not a communist. Say what you will about the ideology, but a real communist would actually care for the plight of the people. Kim Jong Il is more like a fascist who styles himself as a communist, and if Marx is aware of this, he would probably spin in his grave so fast he'd develop his own field of gravity.

Anyway, imagine you are Kim Jong Il for a moment:

- Your country's economy is basically non-existent. You don't even have enough food to feed your population.

- Your army is pretty big and somewhat modern. But it basically is no match for anybody else. If you pissed off the United States or Europe or even Japan, you would find your ass firmly kicked out of office within three months.

- Time and history are not on the side of your government. If you just stay put where you are, the rest of the world will just send you food aid from time to time and basically wait for you to die or be deposed or assassinated. Every other communist government in the world has had to open up at least a little bit, but in your case, your population has been treated so badly that once they catch a glimpse of freedom and what life on the outside can be like, they'll probably force reform.

- You have NO friends. China is theoretically your ally, but if it came down to a choice between you or the rest of the world, they'd side with the latter in a heartbeat.

- You are a potential nuclear power which is the only thing that scares anybody.

So what do you do? You play your one and only card for what it's worth. Kim Jong Il is basically pulling the equivalent of, "Hey, look at me! Over here! I'm about to use a nuke. Really, I have one! Or I'm trying to get one! Now give me what I want!"

Of course North Korea is dangerous, but we should also be aware that it's in their best interest to grandstand as much as possible because otherwise they will have absolutely no influence in the world and no way to get economic and nutritional aid. I don't know how aware Kim Jong Il is of his country's situation, but they need that foreign aid to survive or else the whole country would basically die.

[Neo]

He has a few more cards than that. For example, they have numerous long-range artillery spread over the country which could easily take out Seole. It would be impossible for us to take out every single one. If hostilities start with North Korea the first thing they're going to do is kill a bunch of Americans in Seole. Additionally they have miles of tunnels near the border that are wide enough to drive tanks through. Sure we could defeat them easily, but we will not be able to prevent them from doing some serious damage.

[Fox 6]

Originally Posted by Xantar

I actually think Strangler's termis quite apt particularly since Kim Jong Il is very much not a communist. Say what you will about the ideology, but a real communist would actually care for the plight of the people. Kim Jong Il is more like a fascist who styles himself as a communist, and if Marx is aware of this, he would probably spin in his grave so fast he'd develop his own field of gravity.

Indeed.
So did Stalin care about his people? Did Mao care about his people? The answer is hell no and we still call them communists.


Has any major communist government really cared about the plight of their people? USSR? Nope. China? Nope. Both Cuba and Vietnam have been accused of human rights violations. The only countries that might have been friendly towards the poeople are the eastern bloc countries that were forced into communism. For example Poland, Hungary, and Czechoslovakia all tried to distance themselves and faced soviet reprisals.

I see one example of a country that had the peoples best interest at heart. Yugoslavia. Joesef Bros Tito was a commy-partisan and fought the Nazis and liberated his country without Red army support. With this action he earned the peoples support and ultimately became the leader. He refused to join in the Soviet satellite states and there was nothing the Soviets could do because he controlled the masses.


To be fair none of the major communist governments are truly communist. Communism is about eqality. Well we can clearly see that in places like China and the former USSR that eqaulity was not present. We also see these governments institue some capitalistc economic policies such as Deng Xiaoping's special economic zones for a free market economy. We also see a countires change the ideology alltogether. Communism is about world revolution, and thats a policy that Lenin followed closely, but after Stalin came to power he realized he could not acomplish that goal so he opted for "Socialism in one country."

And you can't call him a facist who styles himself as a communist. The two by definition are opposites.They're Mortal enemies. Thats like calling a pear an eggplant. The term commy-facist is and oxy-moron. He's more of a Totalitarion-militaristic-dictator thats a little funny in the head that happens to be in charge of a so called "communist" government.

[Dylflon]

I started thinking about global politics again recently, and I realized that I'm a lot happier when I don't.

[Xantar]

Originally Posted by Fox 6

Long stuff that does not need to be quoted at length.

Umm...you read way too much into what I said. Either that or you read it all wrong.

You yourself said that none of the major communist governments in the world are "truly communist" because of their institutionalized inequality. That's what I meant. A real communist would create equality out of concern for the plight of the people. And in my view, no "real communist" government exists or ever did exist including Stalinist Russia, Mao's China or Castro's Cuba. That's all.

And when I say Kim Jong Il is a fascist who styles himself as a communist, I meant exactly that. He's a fascist. He styles himself a communist. Meaning he merely calls himself a communist. It doesn't mean he really is a communist. In reality, he's a fascist.

I didn't think it was that hard to understand...

[Fox 6]

Originally Posted by Xantar

Umm...you read way too much into what I said. Either that or you read it all wrong.

You yourself said that none of the major communist governments in the world are "truly communist" because of their institutionalized inequality. That's what I meant. A real communist would create equality out of concern for the plight of the people. And in my view, no "real communist" government exists or ever did exist including Stalinist Russia, Mao's China or Castro's Cuba. That's all.

And when I say Kim Jong Il is a fascist who styles himself as a communist, I meant exactly that. He's a fascist. He styles himself a communist. Meaning he merely calls himself a communist. It doesn't mean he really is a communist. In reality, he's a fascist.

I didn't think it was that hard to understand...

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm .......0_O



I wasn't really trying to argue with you, i refer to "you" as whoever reads it. I was sorta expanding on the quoted comment.

my bad if you got it zat vay.

[Professor S]

To expand on Xantar's points, he is correct. There has never been a true communcist government. Now many may believe that this is because no one has ever wanted to create a truly communist government, I believe it is because communism is so de-humanizing that it collapses under its own weight and turns into facism. I say de-humanizing not to paint it as inherently violent or cruel, but it reduces human beings into numbers and cogs in a vast machine. I don't believe our nature or evolution will ever allow that to take place on a level that we support or find acceptable without coersion.

Marx was a wonderful social critic and his observations about the pitfalls of capitalism are still true to this day, but as a creator of societies and economic alternatives he is an absolute failure. Every attempt to apply his beliefs into a government has not only failed but brought unthinkable horrors to the people it was intended to help.

[Kyoko]

Originally Posted by Bond

That's quite an interesting economic theory that I have a hard time perscribing to.

The products that commpanys put forth are dependent on what people will buy and what they will pay for it. While almost everyone is currently complaining about gas prices (including myself) most people are still willing to pay the "high" price (compared to Europe gas is still extremely cheap here). The day when the people are unwilling to pay for gas will be the day that innovation takes place. It's not the other way around.

Substitutes for gas are already in development mainly for environmental purposes, not so much for the money. But i agree, once the gas price gets too high people will see the economic opportunity and jump at it

[Professor S]

I'm waiting for the day when I can shove a tube up my ass and run my car on my farts. Oh how glorious that day will be.