Bush is a Goof

[gekko]

Originally posted by The Ibrox Fox
I say we start off in Vietnam, causing 50,000 people's deaths, sound about right? even at one point a group of AMERICAN soldiers strolled through a village and killed every single living thing in the place, Women and Children included. The incident was called the My Lai massacre.

That happened a lot of times. Rapes, torching the village, killing everyone they come across. The war was one we should've never got into, but it did cause many of our soldiers to lose their mind (literally). Just look at how many thousands of people haven't recovered from Vietnam. These men got hit hard, and went insane. It's not really the fault of the American soldiers, they had gone insane fighting a war, and going insane with a gun doesn't end pretty.

[Ravishing Rick Rude]

They just gave Al Qeada guys money

Thank you gekko, you reminded me of something else.

The americans also funded a terrorist organization, a little group called the I.R.A

Or Irish Repulblican Army

Which has been harassing northern ireland for over 25 years.

[Jin]

Originally posted by gekko


Sure we're not. You think just because they're a member of Al Qeada, they're guilty of something? If you watched the news, you would realize that these plans were pretty secret. The only ones who knew were the ones involved. Now we go around killing everyone we see, and many of them who were never involved.

The Taliban? They never did anything to kill us. They don't pose a threat to the world. They just gave Al Qeada guys money, and now we shut down the entire government, killing any member who we see.

It would be like accusing a member of the mafia of murdering the president, and then killing every member of the mafia, even though most of them knew nothing.

It's not just the way the Taliban is harboring Osama Bin Laden, and are associated with Al-Queda, it's also because of their practices, how they hold mass public executions, and how they treat women like garbage. If we don't do anything, women will continue to be treated as inferiors, raped, and abide by laws that are unjust.

Sometimes being associated to a group can make you guilty of something. When a gang kills someone and are caught, not only the person who shot the gun is in trouble with the law, but all the other people that are a part of the gang. It's not as if they were forced to be a part of this, like a couple innocent citizens of countries like Germany or Russia during WWII. They chose to be a part of it, knowing what the consequences could be.

Originally posted by Angrist

America (especially BUSH) keeps on saying that it's the best country. No wonder they got Bin Laden angry!

Almost all countries say that theirs is the best, and if it isn't economically, politically, or militarily, they'll find some other reason. Like they have the best people, the best scenery, or the best country in God's eye. It's natural to point out what you're good at. Great Britain used to have the greatest Navy, and had colonies all over the world. They made it clear to everyone that they were the best. When Rome was at it's prime they made sure that everyone knew that they were superior. Egypt also went on and on about how they were the greatest country to every grace the earth during the time of Abraham. All these countries were the greatest at their time, and bragged about it. Is it the right thing to do? No, but if any other country was the most economically, politically, or militarily powerful, they'd do the same. It's unfortunate.

Why do other countries that aren't as strong in certain areas get so pissed? Is it because of jealousy? Really, ask yourself what it truely is. If France was the most powerful and flaunted it, I'd be jealous and go on and on about how arogent they were. America is making a mistake by saying how great they are, but other countries would do the same if they were in the same circumstances. It's human nature to point out what you're good at. If you're good at sports, you'll try to show off whether intentional or not. If you're rich, you'll get a nice car and house to show it off to everyone.

[sdtPikachu]

Well, I don't really have an awful lot to add to what Marc and gekko have said.

As a pacifist, I am opposed to violence in all forms, yet I do realise that it is, at times, neccesary in order to protect others.
However, I see the reaction of America to the whole 11/9 thing as just a teensy weency bit of a knee-jerk reaction. Like gekko says, most of the Taliban had/have no part in the 11/9 attacks, and yet America happily charges in guns blazing killing every member of the Taliban it can find. If the US were only trying to find the culprits, why would they need a whole army? A small stike force could have done it. But no, the states went at it like an angry bull in a china shop and sent in a not inconsiderable force to weed them out. And, quelle suprise, the Taliban saw it as an attack on their territory and they all rallied around to try and fight america off.
America didn't make this a mission to seek out the culprits. They did it to eliminate the Taliban (who, as I've said before, were empowered by the US in the first place). They're either trying to get rid of their embarrassing mistake or they're they've appointde themselves the moral guardians of a country they should have nothing to do with. If it were a colony or some other place where American citizens resided in large numbers, then such actions might be rendered more acceptable. But this is not the case.
The government just wanted to be seen to be Getting Something Done. And if this involves lots of guns, tanks and an excuse to wave a flag about even better. The american public were begging for blood, and by jove they got it.
I just don't believe America had the right to make such a meal of the whole thing (cue: flame, flame, flame).

Sure, I think the elimination of the Taliban is a good thing - as a whoe, they're a "government" who preach bigotry and hatred to everyone who doesn't agree with them. If they take enough of a dislike to you (or if you happen to be female) then it's really quite easy to find yourself getting stoned to death as you walk down the street. I for one was pretty chuffed that they have (eventually) lost their position of power over Afghanistan, at least for the most part, even if their idealogy still lives on to an extent. But what for one minute gave the Americans the right to do that? I can understand America giving Afghan soldiers money, weapons and training to fight off the soviets with (though I still can't understand why they knowingly funded a group renowned to be a bunch of psycho bampots who were itching to be given money, weapons and training to take over the country), but i can't understand why America thinks it has the right to invade a country on the pretext of finding a small bunch of terrorists and kill them all. Maybe the "America got them into that mess, therefore we'll get them out of it whilst pretending to do something else" aspect of it.

And why is it that america only realises terrorism exists when it actually happens to them? Other countries have been sufferring terrorism for decades, centuries - and yet it only seems to exist when the WTC goes the big firework? Is it that all previous acts of terrorism were OK cos they were only say 50 people dying at once? Or is it that America feels the need to assert its superiority over others? Or even that America thinks it's done nothing wrong that could have made all these people resort to terrorism? I wonder. I don't condone terrorism by any means (quite the opposite) but to me America has taken such a "holier than thou, we have done and can do no wrong" attitude that it makes me sick.

Terrorism kills innocent people.
The backlash also kills innocent people.
Another retaliation occurs.
Go to line 1 and repeat.
Where does it all end?


You'll have to excuse my incoherence. I am tired. Expect a more flameworthy post soon.

[Joeiss]

Don't quote me on this... But I think that I heard CNN say that the anti-aircraft rockets that the Taliban are using were given to the Taliban to fight the Soviet Union back in the day. So, America f*cked themselves over with that if this is true.

[Ric]

I know Bush is a goof, I knew that the second he gave the go ahead to dig up Alaska for crude oil and natural gas instead of trying to sort out this planets pollution problems, and they say he's the most powerfull man in the world, scary.

EDIT: Yesss 1984 posts.

[Jin]

Originally posted by Joeiss
Don't quote me on this... But I think that I heard CNN say that the anti-aircraft rockets that the Taliban are using were given to the Taliban to fight the Soviet Union back in the day. So, America f*cked themselves over with that if this is true.

It's true, but they weren't given specifically to the Taliban, but to the Afghan fighters at the time. The Soviets were around during the late 1980s, and early 1990s. So the Taliban weren't even in Afghanistan at the time, most were still in Pakistan. The Taliban didn't even become a real issue until 1995. So yes the anti-aircraft rockets that the Taliban are using today were from America, but they weren't specifically issued to the Taliban.

[GameMaster]

Bush was never ready to handle all this 9-11 crap. Who was?

[Jin]

Originally posted by Gamemaster2002
Bush was never ready to handle all this 9-11 crap. Who was?

Can you reitirate that? Do you mean, "If Bush was never ready to handle all this 9-11 crap. Who was" or are you making a statement that George Bush wasn't ready?

[Joeiss]

Originally posted by Gamemaster2002
Bush was never ready to handle all this 9-11 crap. Who was?

I think that I am ready to handle all this 9-11 crap.

[nWoCHRISnWo]

Even if USA has done things to help cause the 9/11 terrorist attacks, do you think they'd just sit back and let their country be attacked?

And apparently USA can't do anything not involving them because they're sticking their noses in other people's business, yet they can get help other countries if they get attacked according to some of you...

The way I see it, USA can do whatever they want. If they're powerful enough to do this, they can do that. If someone wants to stop them, let them try, but if it ends ugly, it's their own damn fault for thinking they can do **** to USA anyway. When it comes to war and terrorism, what is morally right isn't usually what countries care about.

PS. My junior high and my high school I go to now are filled with about 60-70% Middle East people, and I can easily say they are generally the worst group of people I've ever seen. They live here in Canada now, yet they find it necessary to run around saying how white people suck, and how Lebanon is the best country in the world (LMAO). They don't think about anything, they just assume since they're from the Middle East, everything anyone does there must be right. Same goes for their religion, and they think everyone has to follow their retarded rules. The only good thing about them being in my school is that they make for easy jokes. (Ex. "Canada sucks, Palenstine rules!" "Could you show me where Palenstine is on a map?") I wouldn't mind if all them got sent back to wherever it is that they came from and got bombed by Americans.

[Heyyoudvd]

It's impossible to locate Palestine on a map, since Palestine doesn't exist.

The country is called Israel, and it's just a bunch of people commiting treason by trying to create their own country withing Israel.

Israel has every right toretaliate against Palestinian terrorist attacks, and anyone who says other can go to h ell.

The U.S. really pisses me off how they condemn Israel for retaliating, while at the same time are bombing the hell out of Afghanistan.

BTW, the U.S. should not have attacked Afghanistan. They should have actually tried to solve the problem and get rid of the terrorism, byt attacking teh actual countries reponsible, such as Syrua, Lebanon and Saudi Arabia (even Bin Laden himself is from Saudi Arabia, and so most of the other terrorists over there).


Anyways, by the U.S. attacking Afghanistan, all they're doing is treating the symptoms of the terrorism, rather than the cause, not to mention pleasing the American public, rather than doing what should be done.

[Joeiss]

I think Neil Young sums it up the best :

"No one has the answers
but one thing is true
We got to turn down evil
when its coming after you"


I think that this makes alot of sense, and put things in perspective for me... Well, Kind of. I understand that terror has to be eliminated, and that deaths will happen to prevent deaths in the future. But I just hate violence. It is so damn stupid. "Oh, that country attacked us, lets beat the **** out of them and we'll show them who is their daddy." Basically, that is the mentality of war, IMO. And it is very stupid.




And Chris, I know what you mean. I have some middle eastern friends, and they are pretty cool. But some of there friends are crazy. They think that all whites are stupid and that "darker skinned" people will rule the world eventually.

I think that this is so stupid... Now I wouldn't want them to go back to their mother country and get bombed by the US, but I would just want those pricks to go back to their mother country. Same goes to all those f*cked up whites, blacks, asians, persians etc who think that their race is superior. Screw you all!

[gekko]

Originally posted by Heyyoudvd
It's impossible to locate Palestine on a map, since Palestine doesn't exist.

The country is called Israel, and it's just a bunch of people commiting treason by trying to create their own country withing Israel.

Israel has every right toretaliate against Palestinian terrorist attacks, and anyone who says other can go to h ell.

The U.S. really pisses me off how they condemn Israel for retaliating, while at the same time are bombing the hell out of Afghanistan.

BTW, the U.S. should not have attacked Afghanistan. They should have actually tried to solve the problem and get rid of the terrorism, byt attacking teh actual countries reponsible, such as Syrua, Lebanon and Saudi Arabia (even Bin Laden himself is from Saudi Arabia, and so most of the other terrorists over there).


Anyways, by the U.S. attacking Afghanistan, all they're doing is treating the symptoms of the terrorism, rather than the cause, not to mention pleasing the American public, rather than doing what should be done.

Whoa, back up there. The war between Isreal and Palestine is NOT treason. After WWII, the Jews wanted to leave Germany. Not surprising. The UN had this bright idea to kick the Palestinians out of Isreal, and give it back to the Jews. So the UN basically took away the country and confined them to small areas. Think of it as a modern day America. It originally belonged to the Native Americans, but now it's America. Then it would be the equivilant of saying this country belongs to the indians, and moving all the Americans into reservations.

So in all honesty, the country should still belong to the Palestinians, and what they call "terrorist attacks," is really just an effort to get their country back. So Isreal really has a right to retaliate against the attacks, but the Palestinians also have a right to attack. Simply put, the UN ****ed up on this one.

The US shouldn't have bombed Afghanistan? Why not? Al Qaida was responsable for more than just the plane crash, and they were mainly operating out of Afghanistan. Also, the Taliban were supporting them, and hiding them.

The closest thing any of us have come to living through a war has been Desert Storm/Shield. Of course, that's if you want to consider that a war. But remember when you studied WWII, and Vietnam. Wars don't end in a day, they have very dull moments. You here about something in July 1945, and not another thing until October.

We're in a very political war, and every decision the US makes can effect the entire world. Sure most of the terrorists are from Saudi Arabia, and I am 110% positive this "prince" in Saudi Arabia knows damn well about what goes on, but doesn't care. Should we attack Saudi Arabia? Hell ya, we should destroy the entire country. Problem is, all they have to do is nuke the oil fields, and it's over folks. You know how much of the world's oil comes from Saudi Arabia and the mid-east? Drop a few nukes, and suddenly there's only enough oil there for the Saudis.

We can't just attack everyone we don't like. War is about 40$ military, 60% politics. This war will take time, because we need to be very cautious in what we do. Think of it as te next cold war. It'll be drawn out for years to come.

It reminds me of something Sun Tzu wrote:

"One who knows when he can fight, and when he cannot fight, will be victorious"

[GameMaster]

Originally posted by Jin


Can you reitirate that? Do you mean, "If Bush was never ready to handle all this 9-11 crap. Who was" or are you making a statement that George Bush wasn't ready?

I meant Bush wasn't ready for it. He can't be blamed because no one was ready for it.

And on a sidenote: I use all the cheap "United we Stand" stickers and bumper stickers that people have given me as barbeque starters for my parties. They work quite well.