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[Rndm_Perfection]

Originally Posted by PureEvil

Well, sort of. Sure lots and lots of people smoke and end up dying from it, but lots and lots of people smoke and don't end up dying from it, so it's kind of untrue to say that if you smoke you're going to die from some cause related to smoking.

Plus, you might smoke and die in a traffic accident or something before cancer ever gets a hold of you. Then there's the point that just because you smoke doesn't mean you're going to live a shorter life than anyone else. Plenty of people get hit by cars, and shot, and everything else every single day (Which is what I meant).

Smoking might put something of a cap on your life expectancy, but there are many, many other things looking to take you out way before you ever get to that stage.

Heh, well if it isn't PureEvil arguing for Hell's sake. Was that little speach trying to justify smoking, or disprove Stu? Whichever the case, smoking has been proven to contain deadly toxins, and there have been many cases of death caused by smoking.

Stu plainly pointed out that smoking is like playing Russian roulette with enough bullets to go around, and you tried justifying that someone could get a javaline through the back before they got their fair bullet to the head, meaning that they would not die due to the game (or smoking, according to the actual arguement in which no javalines were involved).

With all random elements aside, smoking can kill. The only way a person can smoke and claim that they won't die from it is to know the future of their demise, or have planned it him/herself.

...Moral of the story is - If you smoke, you give yourself one extra way to die. You could do everything right in the world, dodge bullets... avoid car wrecks, whatever is necessary and even impossible to stay alive, "death by smoking" will still be added to the stack.

Unless, of course, a javalineer sneaks up on you

[Perfect Stu]

Originally Posted by Dyne

Also, some real life smokers who had those throat-holes to help them breath were in some ads..

Yeah...did you see the one where the woman had the hole in her throat, was still addicted, and would put the cigarette into the hole and breath in? THAT was disgusting...but effective

[bobcat]

Originally Posted by Perfect Stu

I agree with you 100%. But the chances of getting cancer for chain smokers is extremely high...

And there ARE many ways for a person to die...lung cancer is one of those things, and it's the one thing people can choose not to get. That was my point. The whole idea of CHOICE in a situation where sooo many people have died and no doubt WILL die from smoking just makes little sense to me. VERY little.

I agree, but unfortunately people who become addicted probably don't see the sense in quitting due to the fact that they think that it won't happen to them. As in getting Lung cancer and stuff.

They kinda have a point because they could die of something more insulting (like a plane crash or car accident).

It's not just the health issues though, it's the cost of buying smokes, and the time it takes to smoke that can be a negative. BTW i don't smoke.

[GameKinG]

They should bring back the hole-in-throat woman ad. That was very effective, IMO.

[PureEvil]

Originally Posted by Rndm_Perfection

Heh, well if it isn't PureEvil arguing for Hell's sake. Was that little speach trying to justify smoking, or disprove Stu?

Hmmm... A little bit from column A, and a little bit from column B.

I didn't say that smoking wasn't harmful. I didn't say that smoking won't kill you. What I said was that just because someone smokes doesn't mean they're going to die a smoke-related death, or even get a smoke-related disease.

They might, of course, but who's to say what will happen to any one of us at any given point in time?

Stu said, "I don't understand smokers...I mean, there is an addiction and it's hard to fight...but hell...YOU'RE GOING TO DIE. DIE DIE DIE. Seems like an easy choice despite the intangibles..."

And what I was saying in response is that they very well might not die as a result of smoking. Just because you smoke doesn't mean it's going to kill/otherwise affect you in any way.

Lots of people smoke and die from some smoke-related thing, but on the other hand, lots of people smoke and don't die from it. There are a lot of people who smoke and die from old age just like anyone else.

You said, "With all random elements aside, smoking can kill." Yes. I absolutely agree. But the key word in that sentence is can. It might not. Hell, for lots of people it doesn't. You can't guarantee that smoking will kill a person, and I can't guarantee that it won't.

As far as the whole "random elements" thing is concerned, you can't just push them aside. Life is full of random elements. You may be disregarding them for argument's sake, but in this discussion about life and death, randomness can't be ignored. It's just as important for the whole picture as everything else is.

"...Moral of the story is - If you smoke, you give yourself one extra way to die. You could do everything right in the world, dodge bullets... avoid car wrecks, whatever is necessary and even impossible to stay alive, "death by smoking" will still be added to the stack."

Here's what I said originally: "Smoking might put something of a cap on your life expectancy, but there are many, many other things looking to take you out way before you ever get to that stage."

What's the difference? We're just looking at it from different angles.

[Perfect Stu]

for the record, I agree with PE 100%, only the way we're using our words it's like he works in the Tobacco Industry and I'm a widower of a victim of lung cancer

From either standpoint, though, he is stating facts. It's a selective bias...quite effective

[Dyne]

Originally Posted by Perfect Stu

Yeah...did you see the one where the woman had the hole in her throat, was still addicted, and would put the cigarette into the hole and breath in? THAT was disgusting...but effective

Yeah, that was a popular one. I saw it three times in one day, on the same channel.

[PureEvil]

We had a guy with a hole in his throat from throat cancer come to our school and talk to us about not smoking in grade 5-ish, I think. It was kinda cool.

I don't know how effective it was, though, as I tried smoking for the first time shortly thereafter...

[Canyarion]

I think we need some statistics here... I'm sure A LOT MORE people die from smoking than from accidents...
Cigarettes in Holland are damn expensive. A lot of taxes on it.

[Angrist]

Saw it in cinema yesterday.

[Swan]

For a second there I forgot that this was an ADVERTISING thread and not a non smoking discussion so I was expecting some about ciggarettes in that ad

[Angrist]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huyFIAF88N0 That last movie I posted was removed but here it is again.