Nintendo: Arrogance or something else?

[uber_paddler]

Hate to break it to you, but I'm pretty sure the "G" stands for Gamecube.

[thatmariolover]

Originally Posted by manasecret

And TML, going back to your old DS topic competing with Apple products, I think you and many others I've read are way over-estimating how much of the market the i devices will snag. Without dedicated game controls, the iPods will never make much of a dent on the handheld market. Also, may I refer you to the Sega Game Gear, Sony PSP, and that always-popular N-Gage?

These devices are getting cheaper and cheaper and more and more capable. They're also generally priced more reasonably than Nintendo's handhelds (relative to the hardware costs). And as locked as they can be, they're far more open than any product Nintendo releases in terms of features.

During Apple's press conference today they presented their new online gaming network that will power the iPhone. You'll be able to invite contacts or use the matchmaking service. They'll have achievements and leaderboards as well. Plus with network connectivity out of the way (Wifi or 3G) they have a partial advantage of where the device can be used over Nintendo.

No it is not a 1:1 overlap but it's moving quickly in that direction.

http://gizmodo.com/5512637/iphone-40...d-achievements

[manasecret]

Originally Posted by uber_paddler

Hate to break it to you, but I'm pretty sure the "G" stands for Gamecube.

Actually I fucked up that joke. They were just mini-DVDs on the GCN. The Dreamcast used GD-ROMs. The spirit of the joke still works......

[manasecret]

Originally Posted by thatmariolover

These devices are getting cheaper and cheaper and more and more capable. They're also generally priced more reasonably than Nintendo's handhelds. And as locked as they can be, they're far more open than any product Nintendo releases in terms of features.

During Apple's press conference today they presented their new online gaming network that will power the iPhone. You'll be able to invite contacts or use the matchmaking service. They'll have achievements and leaderboards as well. Plus with network connectivity out of the way (Wifi or 3G) they have a partial advantage of where the device can be used over Nintendo.

No it is not a 1:1 overlap but it's moving quickly in that direction.

http://gizmodo.com/5512637/iphone-40...d-achievements

Again, way overestimating. I repeat, until the iPods of the world have dedicated gaming controls, they will not make a serious dent in Nintendo's market share.

I'll break my opinion down a little more.

Cheapness doesn't matter, since the DS is priced at a cheap enough point where it doesn't matter.

Power doesn't matter. It has never mattered in the handheld world. This is nothing new.

Open nature doesn't matter. Look at the PC. It doesn't beat all other consoles, despite being quite open.

Gaming network doesn't matter. PSP I'm pretty sure has one. The X360 and PS3 have great ones. The PC has the ultimate open gaming network. The Wii and DS still win.

All that shit doesn't matter. They're nice, but they're not deal breakers. The games in the end, are the only thing that matter. Nintendo has them, and in my opinion, in large part it's because the DS has dedicated gaming controls and that they don't bother doing much of the other crap (albeit nice crap), and instead focus on the games. It's a handheld gaming device, and that's about it. Simple and does what you want it to.

Again, reiterating from that last topic about this, I'm not saying the DS and iPods can't coexist happily. I'm just saying that Nintendo has little to worry about when it comes to Apple, and for good reason.

[thatmariolover]

Originally Posted by manasecret

Again, way overestimating. I repeat, until the iPods of the world have dedicated gaming controls, they will not make a serious dent in Nintendo's market share.

Apple just scored patents for gaming controller peripherals that just plug onto the dongle on iPhones and iPods.

http://www.patentlyapple.com/patentl...the-works.html

Edit: Better link

[manasecret]

Originally Posted by thatmariolover

Apple just scored patents for gaming controller peripherals that just plug onto the dongle on iPhones and iPods.

http://www.patentlyapple.com/patentl...the-works.html

Edit: Better link

That's a good start. Let's see if anything comes of it.

[thatmariolover]

Originally Posted by manasecret

Cheapness doesn't matter, since the DS is priced at a cheap enough point where it doesn't matter.

Power doesn't matter. It has never mattered in the handheld world. This is nothing new.

[WALL OF TEXT]

I disagree with a few points, but I think it’s a difference in perception more than anything else. Cheapness and power don’t matter as much, except the two can equate to value when competition emerges.

This isn’t about Apple. This is about the whole handheld electronic market changing. Apple’s just the easiest example. But the truth is, we’re entering into a completely new era of handheld computing. Batteries are becoming more efficient, chipsets are shrinking into the nano-scale exponentially, and it’s becoming feasible for relatively tiny companies to mass produce a capable product. We have handheld processors with more power than a Dreamcast (nigh on reaching Gamecube/Xbox) abilities. These small scale processors are getting faster and more power efficient at a quicker pace than their console counterparts.

It’s getting so cheap to integrate features into mobile devices that all we’ll have is portable multimedia machines. Some will be better at games than others, certainly Nintendo and Sony will focus on that. Even Microsoft plans to extend Xbox Live service to the Zune, which will be their gaming handheld/media device (Zune already has a Tegra chip inside for graphics, the iPhone 3GS can push 28 million polys per second with full OpenGL 2.0 support and newer Snapdragon (mobile) GPU’s push more than 90 million polygons per second).

When Nintendo is selling their fourth revision to the ORIGINAL DS hardware (yes, they’ve already done three – each released with a different gimmick except the DS Lite to keep the price up) for $200 vs. a $300 iPod touch that has its own app store that does a lot more than just games, I think value will matter. Granted, the 3DS is coming (sometime). We’ll see more of that at E3. Apple’s next hardware refresh is looking to be sometime this summer/fall.

As for the open nature not mattering, it hasn’t mattered because most users haven’t been exposed to it on a handheld device. With reference to set-top gaming (PC/consoles), we’ve seen a huge blending of PC and console capabilities. Aside from the price difference, consoles have had the advantage of instantly playing vs. installing as well as being markedly cheaper for a quality gaming machine. Neither of these is true in the comparison between Nintendo and the upcoming handheld market challengers.

Just in the last generation we’ve gotten tons of PC specific functionality implemented in consoles. HD gaming, Netflix, Pandora, and Emulation of back catalogues just to name a few. Look a little further back and you saw Xbox live spring up to support online gaming, something that was effectively PC only for ages. There will be a demand for more.

The Wii and DS ‘win’ (in terms of sales) because they appeal to the mainstream market and not the main gaming market Nintendo had been targeting. This will backfire when the mainstream market has something as mainstream as a PMP in their face that outperforms their dedicated gaming handheld at gaming and still does a lot more. I really think Nintendo will gradually lose their market share under those conditions. So all I’m really saying, is that they will be a threat only if Nintendo doesn’t adapt (as they’ve shown themselves extremely bad at adapting, I have doubts).

I own a DS and it has some real gems. But many of the games are as flippant as any free app on the App Store, and there are App Store games that rival anything on the DS even without physical controls (I’ve played both, I’m really not making this up). So when developers can get a better cut on the App Store than they do from Nintendo, have a huge install base with their credit cards programmed into the app store, have a much bigger and more functional touch screen, and no need to worry about physical media or space limitations, I think there will be some developer exclusivity losses.

Time will tell, and I might be jumping the gun. Anyway, that’s why I feel how I feel.

[/WALL OF TEXT]

Easily flagged the wall of text, feel free to pretend it doesn't exist so I don't kill the thread

[KillerGremlin]

Originally Posted by thatmariolover

Your question poses another problem I have. Nintendo definitely underestimates the Android/App Store and the iPhone/iPod Touch/iPad and any other multifunction device where gaming is starting to grow. Then again, I think you do too.

I don't underestimate the iPad, I just think morons buy it.

Also, with the need for a Cellphone/MP3 player, and the way Cellphone/MP3 players now have games on them, and these games are the same simple-minded bullshit titles that have made the Wii such a hit this generation amongst morons, I suspect we will see a dramatic change in the direction of handheld gaming in the future. Well, gaming in general.

I personally think this generation took gaming down a peg.

[Angrist]

Nintendo has often hired some stupid people. Perrin Kaplan for example. People who don't know the industry, and try too hard to promote/defend Nintendo. Reggie borders on that.

Luckily their PR isn't 1/10 as bad as Sony's.

As for not reacting to trends very fast:
At the moment they don't really have to, but I do think they realize they'll need to in the future. Already we can see careful steps in the right direction.
- More games have online multiplayer now, some don't even require friend codes.
- They experimented with achievements ('stamps') in WiiSort.
- The Wii has tons of fun online channels... It just lacks a good friend system for them.
- They admit the pressure the Zelda team feels from Monster Hunter 3. I suspect that the Wii has shown them that graphics DO matter for a big clunk of the market. Heck, they're even talking about 3D for the next handheld.
- The SD storage for Wii is a good step in the storage direction.
- They might be ahead of their time with wanting people to download a (VC/WW) game each time they play it. It would work with a better interface and faster internet.

I have good faith that their next console will incorporate almost all features that this thread discusses. Maybe not 100% perfect, but enough to satisfy the geeks.

[Xantar]

Originally Posted by KillerGremlin

I personally think this generation took gaming down a peg.

Really? How so? Did you not have enough games to enjoy? Was Resident Evil 5, Devil May Cry 4, Alan Wake, Mass Effect, Bioshock, Heavy Rain, Call of Duty: Modern Warfare, Super Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime: Corruption, Grand Theft Auto 4, Final Fantasy XIII, Borderlands, Soul Calibur 4, Gears of War, Halo 3, Dragon Ago and about a dozen other games I'm not thinking of enough for you?

[KillerGremlin]

Originally Posted by Xantar

Really? How so? Did you not have enough games to enjoy? Was Resident Evil 5, Devil May Cry 4, Alan Wake, Mass Effect, Bioshock, Heavy Rain, Call of Duty: Modern Warfare, Super Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime: Corruption, Grand Theft Auto 4, Final Fantasy XIII, Borderlands, Soul Calibur 4, Gears of War, Halo 3, Dragon Ago and about a dozen other games I'm not thinking of enough for you?

I'll remember it as: Generation Sequels.

I'm not just talking about the games, many of which are good if not great as you listed. I'm talking about technology trends this generation, the explosion of social media, the explosion of non-gaming business ventures popping up on consoles, the increase in gimmicks in way of gaming. There is also the dumbing down of online gaming for consoles and the abuse of DLC, and yeah I won't get off my PC-gaming high horse. And the cherry on top is that I do see gaming being removed from consoles and brought over to multimedia platforms like cell phones or iPads. Maybe that isn't a bad thing, but get off my lawn!

I'd think you, of all people, being a Nintendo fan and an old school one at that, would long for the nostalgia and kinda get at how I feel.

[Xantar]

Originally Posted by KillerGremlin

I'd think you, of all people, being a Nintendo fan and an old school one at that, would long for the nostalgia and kinda get at how I feel.

What I get out of being a (busy, adult, trying to build a career) Nintendo fan is this: there are lots of games out there that I like. And they are reasonably priced. And ultimately I don't have enough time to play them all. This is good.

There are also lots of games being developed for other platforms. Some of those other platforms are high-end consoles and some of them are little mobile-media platforms and some are social networking sites. On the other hand, games that I like and want are still being made. I don't really care what other games are being released just as long as they don't affect my ability to play the games I want to play.

[Angrist]

Abuse of DLC is really a good point, but I don't have much issues with those other things.

This generation I got more Mario than in the previous 2 gens together. I get a few awesome Zeldas, I got a lot of other good stuff.
On the PC I got everything I wanted and more. At least, I will in a few months when Starcraft 2 is out.

I know there are huge amounts of shovelware and casual games, but I don't need to buy those, do I?