This or That: Final Fantasy Series

[TheSlyMoogle]

Originally Posted by Xantar

No love for Final Fantasy XII? Let me advocate for it a little bit in another lame attempt to stir controversy.

First of all, I don't think you can argue that the Final Fantasy formula needed to change. At a fundamental level. Any kind of combat that looks even vaguely turn based just doesn't fly any more.

The story had to change, too. I've read a lot of complaints about how Vaan is a largely inconsequential character (the story arguably centers around Ashe) and how the stakes for the game are mostly about the politics of two kingdoms. But to me, those were good things. It was nice to be controlling a character who had a normal perspective on things and wasn't overly angsty. And it was nice to have a story where you weren't saving the world. Because that meant anything could happen. When you have a saving the world plot, the only thing that can happen is you kill the bad guy and the world doesn't get destroyed. But if instead it's just about a princess trying to get back on the throne, all kinds of things can happen. She doesn't even have to succeed.

Ok, so the story does pretty much unfold the way you expect it to. It was still a good idea. Just like the Gambit system was a good idea that was imperfectly implemented. Come to think of it, it's kind of analogous to the materia system in Final Fantasy VII: it was a good idea in principal taken WAY too far. Having materia slots on your weapons which affect your spells and abilities is good. Having materia for what should normally be unique character actions (like Steal) is bad.

So I'm hoping that in FF XIII Square builds on the ideas they had and refines them. Alas, I do not have a PS3 or Xbox 360 nor the time to play a 100 hour game any more. But I do hope they pull it off.

While I didn't play FF12 I was there the entire time my roommate did (I was actually running through FF8 again on the TV beside him. We had 3 tvs, 3 PS2s, a 360, a wii and a ps3. It was a good place to live for sure)

Anyway, I watched him run through it. There wasn't anything really amazing about it, and there really wasn't anything bad about it either. Characters were ok, story was...eh to say the least, and the whole thing felt like I was watching someone run through Final Fantasy Tactics with a really similar story and an MMO battle system. Surprise, set in the same universe as FFT(loosely, the world was still called Ivalice and it's presumed that the video game that the kids talk about in FFTA is FFT), FFTA and FFTA2. The Ivalice Alliance strikes again. Honestly you know what was really fun? FFXII Revenant Wings. Like if FFXII had played like that, it would have been a much better game. Seriously.

Overall decent game, Fran was cool, Gilgamesh was awesome. Other than that it was forgettable.

[Xantar]

Originally Posted by TheSlyMoogle

Overall decent game, Fran was cool

Ok, actually you just reminded me of something else I wanted to say about FF XII: Fran is ridiculous. Her character and storyline were ok, I guess. But she's a bunny woman in a stripperific outfit made out of holes (and a piece of sheer cloth across her stomach for some reason) with stiletto heels. Just try showing her picture to anybody not familiar with Final Fantasy and dare them not to crack up.

She's like a fan service Frankenstein. The character designers apparently pulled five or six fetishes together and threw them all into one character with no regard to whether it would actually work.

[TheSlyMoogle]

well she's a viera.

Don't know if you played FFTA or A2, but they pretty much all look like that except for the mage classes of viera.

[DarkMaster]

FFXII was awesome.


Here's something mildly fun to think about. People are currently bitching about FFXIII being linear. 4 years ago, people were bitching about FFXII being too open world.

[Xantar]

I know all that. It's still bad character design.

[Angrist]

FFV is the only FF game I played for a few hours. It was a ROM and I got stuck on a misty ship.
I didn't like it anyway.

[TheSlyMoogle]

Originally Posted by Angrist

FFV is the only FF game I played for a few hours. It was a ROM and I got stuck on a misty ship.
I didn't like it anyway.

Haha. There was a glitch due to the rom that screwed with the graphics, but on the offhand thanks to the emulator you could turn off the graphical layer that was glitched and see the whole path no problem.

Originally Posted by Xantar

I know all that. It's still bad character design.

In comparison to all the other scantily clad females in FF games I would say Fran Fran was fine. So she had bunny ears and leather? She also had small tits which might be a first for a sexy bunny girl.

[Vampyr]

After this thread I'm thinking about getting FF VI, VIII, and IX to play this summer on my trusty PS2.

edit: And by summer I mean however long it takes me to beat them. I can't get used to the idea I won't be coming back to school in the fall.

[TheGame]

Originally Posted by Vampyr

After this thread I'm thinking about getting FF VI, VIII, and IX to play this summer on my trusty PS2.

edit: And by summer I mean however long it takes me to beat them. I can't get used to the idea I won't be coming back to school in the fall.

You're going to look for the actual games for Psx? I think FFVIII is available for download on the PS store for Ps3. IX is available in Japan, but not in America yet.

I'm waiting for them to bring IX and Xenogears to the american PS store.

[Vampyr]

I don't have a PS3 though.

I'd probably just get them on amazon - I'll buy FFVIII and FFIX, then get FF Anthology.

edit: Actually I'm not sure if the FFVI on anthology is the real FFVI or not.

[Xantar]

Originally Posted by TheSlyMoogle

In comparison to all the other scantily clad females in FF games I would say Fran Fran was fine. So she had bunny ears and leather? She also had small tits which might be a first for a sexy bunny girl.

No, my point isn't that Fran was sexy and scantily clad. My point is that her character design is bad and does not work. If she was just a woman wearing that outfit, I would think she's kind of silly looking but then move on. But she's not a woman wearing a stripper outfit. She's a BUNNY wearing a stripper outfit. She's a bunny whom the designers are trying to make sexy for humans.

And if you actually are turned on by her, then what the hell is wrong with you?

Oh wait, I just remember one other problem I had with FF XII. I will describe it in the form of a dialogue.

Penelo: Hey Vaan?

*pause*

Vaan: Yeah, Penelo?

*pause*

Penelo: We're in a cutscene, right?

*pause*

Vaan: Yeah. Why?

*pause*

Penelo: It's pre-recorded, right?

*pause*

Vaan: Yeah, I believe so. The graphics are rendered in real time, but the sound is pre-recorded.

*pause*

Penelo: Then how come there's a one second pause between lines whenever it's time for the next character to speak?

*pause*

Vaan: Huh. I don't know. Technical issues?

*pause*

Penelo: No, that can't be it. People have been doing free-flowing dialogue with realistic pauses for years. Just look at any Disney movie.

*pause*

Vaan: Yeah, I guess that's true. I wouldn't worry about it, though. Since our acting isn't nail-on-chalkboard awful, all the videogame reviewers will claim that we have awesome voice actors. People won't notice a problem until that Xantar guy points it out, and nobody cares what he says anyway.

[TheSlyMoogle]

Haha so here is how the FF thing works to clear up confusion:

Final Fantasy 1 - This is the same game in the US and Japan.

Final Fantasy 2 - This game was unreleased in the US in its NES iteration. Eventually remakes of both 1 and 2 would be released on the gameboy advance (Do believe was just called final fantasy 1 and 2, and do believe they were ports of the wonderswan remakes), and also as Final Fantasy Origins for the PSx. Both were remakes graphically with slight system changes (Basically making them much easier, which wasn't a bad thing for those 2 games because they were pretty dumb in terms of difficulty thanks to the equations used for damage calc and the like. The updates basically made them playable) Speaking of games that weren't standard level up procedure, let's talk about this game. When you performed an action in FFII you gained exp, so doing a certain action would make you more adept at that action. Of course you could abuse the hell out of it, like attacking each other and healing off the damage etc. This game also introduced us to... CID, and also the Chocobo.

Final Fantasy 3 - This game was unreleased in the US, but would eventually get a DS remake and overhaul, which would make its way to our shores. This game introduces the job change system, and it wasn't implemented very well. Unfortunately the remake didn't help much, as they didn't tweak the game system too much, and the game was still retarded. Characters didn't have separate levels from their job levels, so if you needed to change a job for some reason, it was a pain in the ass. Basically it made grinding all jobs for all characters a really good idea. Hey, this game introduced Moogles though. Moogles + Job System = Badass already.

Final Fantasy 4 - This was released as 2 in the US and 4 in Japan. Since the release of the original 3 here it was changed to 4 here. It was also released as part of Final Fantasy Chronicles on the PSx, which bundled Chrono Trigger together with 4. Again it was remade graphically, and released on the DS as final fantasy 4 ds. It was the first final fantasy game released on the SNES, and as such set sorta set the standards not just for FF games, but also for RPGs in general. It had a really fleshed out story, and a pretty awesome battle system and the characters were pretty awesome. This is really where things started to be amazing.

Final Fantasy 5 - This game wasn't released originally in the US. Since that though it was released alongside Final Fantasy 6, in Final Fantasy Anthologies. For the US it was made easier, but overall not a lot of changes. However due to the fact that SNES roms and emulators blew the fuck up about 2 years before Anthologies was released, there was a very well done fan translation of the Japanese ROM that spread like wildfire on the internet. This game returned to the Job system, but pretty much managed to do it right. Honestly the story for the game is nothing to write home about, and it's a relatively short game, but the battle system was amazing for its time. This is the game where you really started having to think about battles. It was a great game. This game also introduced a little chocobo by the name of Boco. In following FF games there has been a Boco in pretty much every game.

Final Fantasy 6 -This was released as Final Fantasy 3 in the US, then later changed to Final Fantasy 6 when it was released in Anthologies. It was ported to the game boy advance later on with added content. This game was basically the cake. This is pretty much the game where Square actually got it right finally. Before I played this game, I had beaten 7 and was looking for a way to kill time until 8. Heard about this, and rom-ed it up. I was super impressed, and not just because you could play as a moogle. There basically wasn't a whole lot of difference between 6 and 7 except characters and story, and for me 6 won in both of those. Oh also the game was a bit more complex in terms of battles and such. Maxing stats in that game was so cool, and it took so much awareness. Truly a stellar game.

Final Fantasy 7 - This is the game that started the confusion. Basically it came out in the US as 7, it got all this press before it was even decided the game would drop on our shores, and people were all "WHAT THE FUCK? THIS GAME IS SWEET BUT ISN'T IT FF 4?" There were a bunch of articles at the time about it, people got pissed that FF games weren't released here, they got over it and spent countless hours with 7 instead. This game was a big deal because A.) It was basically the first 3D RPG. B.) It had all these beautiful cutscenes. C.) You had a character that was totally sweet and wonderful and all things pure and good die right in front of you, and for some fucking reason Phoenix down didn't work. You grew to love Aeris, and Square murdered that bitch. D.) It was set in a futuristic location, and all kinds of crazy shit was mixed in with magic it was totally baller, no RPG had ever done that b... wait a minute Chrono Trigger. Basically 7 got a lot of hype for mixing up a bunch of stuff that like 4 different RPGs had going for them on the SNES, and also because it somehow reached the masses. I knew shit was fucked when the rednecks in my classes were talking about how sweet cloud was. I mean... I didn't even like cloud, so I knew some shit was up. Anyway it is what it is, and the majority of people will still say this is the best RPG EVAR MADE!

Final Fantasy 8 - This is the game that when people are like "Is there no bad FF game?" that gets shouted out first. Highly underrated. You know why? Because there are few people out there in RPG land who were smart enough to fucking understand it. That's right I just called a lot of you idiots. I'm not talking about story, that shit was ok. I'm talking about battle mechanics. This game was so beautiful in the way that it worked mechanically that people were like "DURR! I R LEVEL 900, YET I R DIE IN 1 HIT TO MONSTAR?!" Straight up, leveling up in this game was something drastically different from previous FF games. It was implemented beautifully as well. Junction system, I'm sorry that the US was too stupid to understand you. The Japanese got it just fine, and it's still like up there on the JP list of goodness.

Final Fantasy 9 - Nine was basically a throwback to the older games, notably 4ish type of games. It had the kinda medieval thing going for it that the older games had. To be really honest, it was tons of fun. I would also it has hands down the best soundtrack of the series. Not much more to say about this one, except it was the first game to kinda teach you skills dependent on the equipment you had on. That was annoying and neat at the same time. Not using a better equipment because you hadn't learned a previous skill yet blew ass. Especially in Mage land because those skills took forever to learn and mages are 10 different kinds of weak/fucked.

Final Fantasy 10 - This game has FF7 syndrome. First big RPG of a new gen. It was pretty, really pretty. Unique battle system with the ability to change characters in the battles, and also the elimination of Active Time Battles basically. Thanks to delay sword or whatever, I beat that games so hella underleveled. Oh that and the sweetness that was Valefor. Sphere grid was a new (And shitty) way to level up, which included such fun ventures as playing a board game with your levels and hoping you had the right spheres to set so you actually benefited from moving around on that board. Lame ass Characters and lame ass story. Really people. Oh and possibly the worst voice acting I've ever heard in any game to date. At least any game that was considered good.

Final Fantasy 11 - Basically Square tried to jump on the MMO train thanks to Everquest, and they succeeded in creating the worst Pay-to-Play MMO ever. People were like "OMG FF ONLINE" and that's what kept it going. Also because they probably never touched WoW which was far superior in every aspect. I love FF universe and all that, but please don't make shitty games that cost 14.99 a month. Kthnx.

Final Fantasy 12 - So Square tried to do something different here, AI controlled characters, Free range type battles, kinda like an MMO. A pretty decent story that was all too similar to Final Fantasy Tactics.

While we're on the subject though, I would say if you're looking for good RPGs, most of these games aren't really worth playing.

1,2 and 3 are highly skippable. 4 brings fond memories, but by today's standards I would say skip it. 5 is all skip. I would suggest skipping 10 and 12 as well.

There were so many great RPGs for the SNES and PSx that don't start with the words Final Fantasy. Play them instead.

Also Vampyr, if you've never played Chrono Trigger, now is the time. Going to make a bold statement and say it's probably the best RPG ever. Hope someone argues that one with me

Originally Posted by Xantar

Penelo: No, that can't be it. People have been doing free-flowing dialogue with realistic pauses for years. Just look at any Disney movie.

*pause*

Vaan: Yeah, I guess that's true. I wouldn't worry about it, though. Since our acting isn't nail-on-chalkboard awful, all the videogame reviewers will claim that we have awesome voice actors. People won't notice a problem until that Xantar guy points it out, and nobody cares what he says anyway.

Uh... Not trying to defend a mediocre game, but this was done to help with localization to prevent the lameness that was FFX voice acting. Don't know if you remember, but in 10 the lips were so out of sync and everything was really fucked up. Yeah it was a shortcut way to fix that stupid shit, but I guess it kinda worked.

[BlueFire]

FF3 was an NES title which wasn't released in the States. FF4 for the SNES was our FF2. FF5 wasn't released in the States. FF6 was released as FF3 in the states. Same thing. Only difference in a special FMV opening sequence in the PSX Anthology

[magus113]

As far as playing FFVI, the Game Boy Advance version is supposed to be the one with the most additions and it's got completely rewritten dialogue.

Sorry about the wall of text with my answer.

I've only completed FF3(Japan), FF7, FF9, and FF10. I can personally say FF9 is probably my favorite. FF3 was great, but I'm not too big on games with job systems, considering I'm not that good at managing my parties that way. FF9 was pretty old school and it brought the series back from it's roots, which it didn't return to until I'd have to say FF11 or 12. I've never played FF11 because MMOs really aren't my thing after a while. My issue with 12 was that the battle system was just BORING. Ugh, I don't think I could imagine playing through a 35+ hour game with that kind of battle system.

Straying from my point here. The music in FF9 was fantastic, the characters were all actually pretty enjoyable, my personal favorites being Freya, Amarant, and Steiner. All of the characters have their uses (yes even Quina), and they all add humor and more character to the game. The plot progression was fantastic. It was everything FF used to be and more.

FF8 is the one I'm trying to trek though now, and I do enjoy that game although I feel sometimes the narrative between Laguna/Squall and how they're connected can get a little convoluted. The junction system is cool, but I also think it makes the game way too easy if you do like I do and make for some pretty serious level grinding when it's possible. The magic system is fine, it's the organization and distribution of magic that makes things tedious. Yes you can transfer all junctioned magic and all of that goodness easily, but divvying it up makes for a little too much time in the menus if you ask me. The SeeD ranks are a joke, because the answers to the tests are always super simple and you receive a ridiculous amount of money on a regular basis.

FF7? Ugh. I don't know. When I finally beat it start to finish two years ago, I wasn't left with a bad taste in my mouth, but I don't think there's much for me to remember. Mind you, it brought about some pretty decent material as far as the Compilation of Final Fantasy VII stuff goes (Crisis Core is actually a pretty cool game, and Advent Children, while campy and a cash cow has it's replay value). But yeah. It's definitely overrated.

FFX for me was cool when I started getting into it, but I think my biggest issue was that I found it very difficult at some points because I wasn't accustomed to level grinding when I first got the game, which would have helped me and my sphere grid progression a whole bunch. The whole keeping-your-entire-party-with-you-when-you-battle system was cool but I don't think I was able to fully get the most out of everyone because I was trying to make sure they all got in to battles at once, which is the wrong way to approach things, I know but I didn't know any better.

The first Final Fantasy is a great game, and I still strive to beat it. I have the 20th anniversary edition for the PSP, which while toned down in difficulty, I think is the best version of the game. I still plan to beat it one day.

I've played the beginning of FF2 and I can't say that I really enjoy it to be honest. I think it's the leveling system. I dunno. I'll give it another shot.

FF4, I got all the way to when you first get the Lunar Whale, and I started to struggle a little after that. Eventually due to a mishap of my own fault, my save was deleted and I have yet to pick it up again. But I want to.

FF5 I played and I've actually gotten all the way to the end but I have not beaten Exdeath. The difficulty is pretty up there. And I'm gonna attribute it to me not being able to manage my party properly with the job system. It requires me going back to level grinding which I guess I can try, but I don't know if I could.

[TheSlyMoogle]

Originally Posted by magus113

The music in FF9 was fantastic, the characters were all actually pretty enjoyable, my personal favorites being Freya, Amarant, and Steiner. All of the characters have their uses (yes even Quina), and they all add humor and more character to the game. The plot progression was fantastic. It was everything FF used to be and more.

This game has the best music. Also Quina was highly useful, white wind was the best healing spell in the game for a long time, and mighty guard is top tier magicks. Always has been.

My favorite characters were Freya and Amarant, but sadly didn't use them much thanks to the broken goodness that was Zidane, Eiko, Vivi and Steiner. I'm soooo sorry Garnet didn't get Holy or a decent summon like Eiko did. She had access to Holy and the best Summon, Maduin (Forgot what they called him in 9)

Originally Posted by magus113

FF8 is the one I'm trying to trek though now, and I do enjoy that game although I feel sometimes the narrative between Laguna/Squall and how they're connected can get a little convoluted. The junction system is cool, but I also think it makes the game way too easy if you do like I do and make for some pretty serious level grinding when it's possible. The magic system is fine, it's the organization and distribution of magic that makes things tedious. Yes you can transfer all junctioned magic and all of that goodness easily, but divvying it up makes for a little too much time in the menus if you ask me. The SeeD ranks are a joke, because the answers to the tests are always super simple and you receive a ridiculous amount of money on a regular basis.

SeeD ranks are a joke, but if I understand what you're doing with the game in terms of leveling up, then will say the game will get nearly impossible for you around the end of disc 3. I may be wrong about that, because the GFs in the game are pretty sick, but let's just say it will be hard. Probably the funnest thing I've done in a regular FF game (Aside from Tactics which is just amazing), Is a no level up run in FF8. It's impossible not to gain a few levels in the beginning of the game but aside from that, it's a lot of fun, and a great challenge.

I think if you enjoyed 9 you would really like 6 if you haven't played it.


Also, can we please stop considering FFXI as part of the series? It wasn't even originally titled FFXI, but the number was added to boost sales and get more players. Playing FFXI was probably the worst thing I've ever done in an MMO, I played it for 3 hours, looked up and realized I was like level 4 or something. I actually ninja returned it to Wal-Mart saying the game was busted, and they gave me a nice unopened copy that I took to a different wal-mart to get cash for. Wal-mart you're so good to me.

So far the only game I've yet to play in the series is Final Fantasy 12. I just couldn't do it. Reminded me too much of .hack series and I struggled through the last 2 games in that series just to finish the story. Decided it was more fun to watch my roommate do the same stuff in the ff series. Lol. Zodiac Spear.