Sega releasing good games... but are they being a bit TOO agressive?

[gekko]

Originally posted by TheGame
EA's name alone can make sales, and EA is the biggest third party producer and seller on the market... What is Sega?

EA's name alone DOESN'T sell titles, period. Nobody buys games because they are made by EA, most people don't even know EA is the biggest 3rd part developer. Some of the franchises EA has sell on that name, but not on the name EA. People buy Madden because it's Madden, but not because it's EA. It's the franchise itself that sells, not EA. EA releases new games all the time and no one buys them. Look at the Simpsons Road Rage. EA's name didn't help sell that game in any way. No one looks at a game and says it's being developed by EA so it'll be good. They say "It's Madden so it will kick ass" or something like that. EA's name doesn't sell.

Originally posted by TheGame
Well, this can help Sega, or it can hurt Sega. The Re-hashes of games that sold well on DC will be great for the non-DC owners, but they will suck to DC owners. Like Sonic Adventure 2 Battle, I'm sure that most DC owners didn't buy thet game again... same with Crazy Taxi.

Depends on what game Sega releases. I bought SA2:B again. I'll buy Shenmue II again. If they remake some other games, I'll likely buy those. But it's not like they're spending tons of effort porting these games over. It takes a lot less time to add a few things to Sonic 2, and add stuff to PSO and port it, than it does to make a whole new game. It takes less employees, and a lot less money. So in the end, even if it doesn't sell like it did on DC, they're not out any money by porting hit games over.

Originally posted by TheGame
NCAA 2k2 was on Dreamcast... this is it's second installment, and it's first didn't sell well on DC.

Does EA's college games sell that well? To my knowledge, college games never really sold that well. But by using the NFL 2K engine, changing character models and teams, it's another game that's not very expensive to make, so it doesn't hurt them.

Originally posted by TheGame
Soccer Slam would sell MUCH better if they waited to release it, period.

Not really. Even if the Sega name would help sell the game, it doesn't matter. It's too different of a game. Sega releases NFL 2K, everyone loves it. It might help sell NBA 2K and NHL 2K, but Soccer Slam is an arcade soccer game with weird-ass characters. No matter what Sega does, it doesn't help sell it. And even so, as it is now, there was only 1 game for it to compete with. If they waited, it would be up against 2002 FIFA World Cup and Virtua Striker 2002, now out, and Visual Concept's upcoming simulation soccer game, as well as a new game from Konami. It wouldn't help. You gotta start the new franchises sometime, and most people agree this game kicks ass. It wouldn't sell more if released later, cause no one would know if it's any good or not. Soccer Slam will only help sell Soccer Slam sequels, and other funky-sports games from Visual Concepts.

Originally posted by TheGame
Second of all, Madden didn't help sell road rage, but Madden (along side Fifa) helped NBA Live, NHL, NCAA Football, and March Madness become huge franchises... Madden's old success is the ONLY reason EA is the biggest third party developer, so each and every sale EA gets is owed to Madden.

Hmm... I kinda just said the same thing, then read this. EA Sports helps sell EA Sports, that's the conclusion, correct? Now see, Soccer Slam isn't a simulation sports title. NFL 2K helped NBA 2K and NHL 2K, probably even Virtua Tennis. Virtua Striker sucks, nothing can help it. But Soccer Slam is nothing like those. I'm sure the Sega Sports series will help sell the upcoming soccer sim from VC, but Soccer Slam? Not a chance. It would be like Excitebike helping to sell Kameo, just doesn't work that way. Same with Final Fantasy helping to sell a Square FPS.

Originally posted by TheGame
The problem is... Sega can't compare to EA as far as sales, period. JSRF didn't get as popular as you think, Monkey Ball was released on the system with the weakest launch, of course it will get sales, nothing near the word "good". Crazy Taxi is a joke.

Not only that, I'd buy Bond over any of those games, JSRF is the closest thing to bond, and it still didn't out-sell bond.

What I was saying is Monkey Ball sold better than expected. JSRF did decent. But guess what? It was never on 3 consoles like Bond was. And Crazy Taxi, for DC, PS2, and GC, sold was more than Bond. You can't say Crazy Taxi was a joke because you only chose to count the ports that came over a year after the original, and after a sequel. It would be like trying to sell Madden 2001 on Gamecube. Crazy Taxi outsold Bond by a lot. And EA's sales are higher because Sega has only had what? Half-a-year tops to develop, and release games on these consoles. It's far from fair.

Originally posted by TheGame
I expect a lot in terms of quality (which Sega has yet to deliver). but to me some of the games Sega releases are just a waist of time.

Super Monkey Ball, JSRF, and Soccer Slam are all quality titles, whether you like them or not. So is Home Run King, Virtua Fighter 4, NFL 2K2, and NBA 2K2. And you don't think EA releases a lot of games which are just a waste of time? Cause there's sure a lot more than Sega has.

[Jin]

Originally posted by TheGame
Uh, yes they will. That has to be the worst comment I ever heard.

In other words, you think that every person goes to a game store clueless about what they like and what they are going to buy?

I never said that they were totally clueless. I said that people usually play the game at a friend's house, or read a review in a magazine instead of going to a store looking for a certain developer. Do you think that games like F-Zero and Metroid are going to sell horribly because they went to developers that aren't "well known?" People mostly care about the franchise, not the developer. Sure there are those that care somewhat about who the developer is, but the majority of people who buy games don't.

Originally posted by TheGame

Just like the difference between:
Goldeneye and Tomorrow Never Dies
Madden 2002 and NFL 2k2
NBA Live and NBA 2k2
Tony Hawk and ESPN Skateboarding
1080 and ESPN Snowboarding
wCw Mayhem and WCW/nWo revenge

All the games that sold better were better games. Goldeneye was 10x better than TND. Madden 2002 had many features that NFL2K2 didn't; same with NBA Live and NBA2K2. Tony Hawk is a great game and is well known, while ESPN Skateboarding is horrible; same goes with 1080 and ESPN Snowboarding. Why did these sell better? Not because the Developer's name was printed on it, but because they were better games. People know whether a game is good or not from reviews or by playing it at a friend's house.

[~VIN~]

I buy games because they say EA on the box.

[Jin]

Originally posted by ~VIN~
I buy games because they say EA on the box.

Well, at least Pooh and Tigger's Hunny Safari will sell a copy now.

[Mushlafa]

Originally posted by ~VIN~
I buy games because they say EA on the box.

Cool 4999 posts.... go make a topic for your 5000'th post

Anyway uhhh.... I Think sega should build a better name for itself outside of the hardcore sega fans before they start trying to compete with EA

[TheGame]

Posted by Gekko:

EA's name alone DOESN'T sell titles, period. Nobody buys games because they are made by EA

Originally posted by ~VIN~
I buy games because they say EA on the box.

Nobody eh? I know I buy games just because EA makes them, and Vin does too apparently. I know Stu does... and I know the people who bought any "EA Big" games or Madden games year after year do.

Hell, if EA made NFL 2k2, and Sega made Madden 2002, I'd buy NFL 2k2 first just because of my trust for the developer brand name EA.

Unless I'm nobody of course

Some of the franchises EA has sell on that name, but not on the name EA. People buy Madden because it's Madden, but not because it's EA. It's the franchise itself that sells, not EA. EA releases new games all the time and no one buys them. Look at the Simpsons Road Rage. EA's name didn't help sell that game in any way. No one looks at a game and says it's being developed by EA so it'll be good. They say "It's Madden so it will kick ass" or something like that. EA's name doesn't sell.

Yes, it does... When people in 1995/1994 decided that they were going to buy NBA Live, NHL, March Madness, Bill Walsh Football, and Fifa Soccer over any other sports game in the industry, was it because they all had the name "Madden" on it or was it because it had the name "EA Sports" on it?

NBA Street and SSX got popular VERY fast, not because of how great the games were, but because it was developed by EA Sports (just with the word "Big" by it).

You can't even sit here and deny that the name "EA" doesn't have the biggest strong hold on the sports market as a developer, and the biggest grip on the whole market as a plublisher.

Depends on what game Sega releases. I bought SA2:B again. I'll buy Shenmue II again. If they remake some other games, I'll likely buy those. But it's not like they're spending tons of effort porting these games over. It takes a lot less time to add a few things to Sonic 2, and add stuff to PSO and port it, than it does to make a whole new game. It takes less employees, and a lot less money. So in the end, even if it doesn't sell like it did on DC, they're not out any money by porting hit games over.

You are a bad example, you NEVER beat SA:2 before you got it on GCN, so for you it's like buying a whole new game. I don't know about Shenume 2, have you beat it? Just imagine a game on DC that you have beat over and over on DC, then think of the port that isn't more visually impressive, and with USELESS added features.

You are right though, ports aren't bad for making money. But, I never said it will be bad for money, simply bad for DC fans, the same DC fans who are expected to buy these games again

Does EA's college games sell that well? To my knowledge, college games never really sold that well. But by using the NFL 2K engine, changing character models and teams, it's another game that's not very expensive to make, so it doesn't hurt them

1) NCAA 2002 sold great last year... NCAA 2k2 didn't

2) It isn't cheap to make a college game, ANY way you look at it.

You have to make the jersys and logos AND uniforms for more than 100 schools. Slow the game down to college speed. Plus, find a franchise formula which fit on a Memory Card, and that can save more than 100 teams players and statistics.

(compare NCAA 2k2 to NCAA 2002... one has player names, one only has numbers, that alone shows how much more Memory Ps2 can utilize)

Yes, this is off subject, but don't underestimate how much work a great college football title takes.

Not really. Even if the Sega name would help sell the game, it doesn't matter. It's too different of a game. Sega releases NFL 2K, everyone loves it. It might help sell NBA 2K and NHL 2K, but Soccer Slam is an arcade soccer game with weird-ass characters. No matter what Sega does, it doesn't help sell it. And even so, as it is now, there was only 1 game for it to compete with. If they waited, it would be up against 2002 FIFA World Cup and Virtua Striker 2002, now out, and Visual Concept's upcoming simulation soccer game, as well as a new game from Konami. It wouldn't help. You gotta start the new franchises sometime, and most people agree this game kicks ass. It wouldn't sell more if released later, cause no one would know if it's any good or not. Soccer Slam will only help sell Soccer Slam sequels, and other funky-sports games from Visual Concepts.

If Sega had a name as big as EA's, it would sell, just like NBA Street...

Hmm... I kinda just said the same thing, then read this. EA Sports helps sell EA Sports, that's the conclusion, correct? Now see, Soccer Slam isn't a simulation sports title. NFL 2K helped NBA 2K and NHL 2K, probably even Virtua Tennis. Virtua Striker sucks, nothing can help it. But Soccer Slam is nothing like those. I'm sure the Sega Sports series will help sell the upcoming soccer sim from VC, but Soccer Slam? Not a chance. It would be like Excitebike helping to sell Kameo, just doesn't work that way. Same with Final Fantasy helping to sell a Square FPS

Once again, NBA Street...

AND, did you see how "Bouncer"'s launch sales compared to other launch titles? The name Square sold that game left and right.

What I was saying is Monkey Ball sold better than expected. JSRF did decent. But guess what? It was never on 3 consoles like Bond was. And Crazy Taxi, for DC, PS2, and GC, sold was more than Bond. You can't say Crazy Taxi was a joke because you only chose to count the ports that came over a year after the original, and after a sequel. It would be like trying to sell Madden 2001 on Gamecube. Crazy Taxi outsold Bond by a lot. And EA's sales are higher because Sega has only had what? Half-a-year tops to develop, and release games on these consoles. It's far from fair.

LOL

Ok, when did Dreamcast come into this? On Dreamcast, those were first party games, so it isn't even fair to be in the comparision...

On Ps2... Bond out-sold Taxi... On GCN.. Bond out-sold Taxi and Monkey Ball... On Xbox... I think JSRF may have beat bond, but I dunno.

Make SINGLE console comparisions.. I didn't say Bond as a whole sold more, on each platform it got it's competition (except maybe Xbox)

Super Monkey Ball, JSRF, and Soccer Slam are all quality titles, whether you like them or not. So is Home Run King, Virtua Fighter 4, NFL 2K2, and NBA 2K2. And you don't think EA releases a lot of games which are just a waste of time? Cause there's sure a lot more than Sega has.

We'll see...

[gekko]

Originally posted by TheGame
Nobody eh? I know I buy games just because EA makes them, and Vin does too apparently. I know Stu does... and I know the people who bought any "EA Big" games or Madden games year after year do.

You're not enough to make a difference in sales. Cause I can easily find 4 people who buy Sega games because they say "Sega."

Originally posted by TheGame
NBA Street and SSX got popular VERY fast, not because of how great the games were, but because it was developed by EA Sports (just with the word "Big" by it).

Uhh... no. They didn't get popular fast because they were EA games. SSX was the only good game released at PS2's launch, so it got popular fast cause the rest of the games sucked ass. NBA Street got popular because it's a sweet game.

Originally posted by TheGame
You are a bad example, you NEVER beat SA:2 before you got it on GCN, so for you it's like buying a whole new game. I don't know about Shenume 2, have you beat it? Just imagine a game on DC that you have beat over and over on DC, then think of the port that isn't more visually impressive, and with USELESS added features.

I'm a bad example? I have RE2 on PSX, DC, and N64. I have RE3 on PSX and DC. I have CV on DC and PS2. I'll get them all again on Gamecube. I'm getting PSO again, and yes, I did play that to death. I think I'm a damn good example.

EDIT: Man, forgot I played Luigi's Mansion, Wave Race Blue Storm, and Super Monkey Ball to death before buying them all again

Originally posted by TheGame
You are right though, ports aren't bad for making money. But, I never said it will be bad for money, simply bad for DC fans, the same DC fans who are expected to buy these games again

This whole thread is about Sega only releasing 2 games a year to get their name out. Now you say those do make money. Hmm... money, or no money? Justin, promise me you never go on to run your own company. Cause your tactic on not releasing your product yet expecting to make money is gonna kill ya.

Originally posted by TheGame
2) It isn't cheap to make a college game, ANY way you look at it.

Yes it is. They got the NFL 2K engine, they modify it a little. They change a few rules, and make new characters and teams. They don't have to pay for the programmers to spend months making the engine. So yes, it's fairly cheap. Cheaper to go from NFL 2K to NCAA 2K than to make Beach Spikers, which requires a completely new engine.

Originally posted by TheGame
If Sega had a name as big as EA's, it would sell, just like NBA Street...

Uhh... when was the last time soccer games outsold basketball games in this country? And street ball is a lot more popular than fake characters playing soccer. EA couldn't sell it any better, probably would've made a worse game out of it.

Originally posted by TheGame
Ok, when did Dreamcast come into this? On Dreamcast, those were first party games, so it isn't even fair to be in the comparision...

Sure it is. You say Sega's name doesn't sell titles, but you're comparing it to a port of a game that was 2 years old, had a sequel that was a year old, and pretty much everyone has already played to death to a game that's brand new. Sega can't sell Crazy Taxi? Think again, they just sold DCs in the process to sell Crazy Taxi.

Bond's a name that sells alone, EA did nothing to help it. Considering how I think EA's Bond games suck, it hurt it in my opinion. But still, it's a bad comparison. Crazy Taxi killed Bond. JSRF may not, but it's a DC game not many people played vs. a game on 3 consoles. You can compare it to Rez, Gun Valkyrie, and Space Channel 5 too, those games were never really expected to do well. By you gotta wait until Sega actually finishes their bigger games, and gets their sports games released on all consoles like EA already has.

Originally posted by gekko
You're not enough to make a difference in sales. Cause I can easily find 4 people who buy Sega games because they say "Sega."

[TheGame]

*sigh* Good work trying to pull it far off topic by not replying to all mty points gekko.. guess I'll do the same til this dies.

You're not enough to make a difference in sales. Cause I can easily find 4 people who buy Sega games because they say "Sega."

I'm not enough to make a difference, yet four people are? Wow.

Um, I don't have to be big enough alone, there are people who religiously buy every EA Sports title every year.

Your point was that the name "EA Sports" doesn't sell games, but "Madden" and "NBA Live" do. That hast to be the most dumbfounded point I've ever seen... EA Sports doesn't have the best games every year in every category, but they have the best sales, period. Take Tripple play for Example, it's gameplay doesn't sell it.. it never had a good gameplay year, so it isn't feeding off of it's old popularity... it ONLY sells because it has the name EA Sports on it.

You are not right on this point so give up.

Uhh... no. They didn't get popular fast because they were EA games. SSX was the only good game released at PS2's launch, so it got popular fast cause the rest of the games sucked ass. NBA Street got popular because it's a sweet game.

Ps2 had a lot of games with more marketability out at launch... SSX didn't out-sell Tekken Tag or Madden... SSX: Tricky was the game that shot the series' sales up. Give me an excuse for Tricky doing so well

I'm a bad example? I have RE2 on PSX, DC, and N64. I have RE3 on PSX and DC. I have CV on DC and PS2. I'll get them all again on Gamecube. I'm getting PSO again, and yes, I did play that to death. I think I'm a damn good example.

Still a bad example... for Sega games you didn't play them enough... for these other titles you were just wasting money. Nobody else in thier right mind would do the same thing.

Yes it is. They got the NFL 2K engine, they modify it a little. They change a few rules, and make new characters and teams. They don't have to pay for the programmers to spend months making the engine. So yes, it's fairly cheap. Cheaper to go from NFL 2K to NCAA 2K than to make Beach Spikers, which requires a completely new engine.

If you look at it that way, every Sega sports game in the 2k2 and 2k3 line-up are cheap to make because they are taking everything from the 2k1 engines.

But developing the game as a whole takes a while.. you don't know shyt about sports games so of course you will say that it takes no time to develop. What game is released first each year? NFL or NCAA? That means either 1) The gameplay engine is being borrowed from the year before (the craptacular Sega way) or 2) The gameplay engine has to be built for College football first, then loaned to the NFL games (like EA)

plus programmers have to find a way for the two football games to communicate... but in Sega's case, they think it's better to keep the games seperate

How much work do you think it takes to digitally remodel over 100 teams stadiums, and Uniforms (which have to be refreshed every year), and get thier fight songs? Plus go out and get all the jersy numbers for the players on every one of the teams...

Wait, Sega is too cheap to do that...

I guess you are right, it may just be cheap to make a re-hash crappy College football game like Sega makes

[BlueFire]

No, don't let this die....This keeps my forum alive.

Ah ah ah ah stayin' alive, stayin' alive

You can tell by the way I walk, uh huh, I'm a ladies man, a penguin man...

Um, continue.

[gekko]

But the same points are being repeated, and no one is changing sides. So it's just hurting our fingers continuing it.

Ah ah ah ah hurtin' our fingers, hurtin' our fingers

I should really stop now...

[TheGame]

Originally posted by gekko
But the same points are being repeated, and no one is changing sides. So it's just hurting our fingers continuing it.

My fingers aren't jus hurting, I get a headache when I go to this topic I guess we can end the madness.. til somthing pops up next moth

(Sorry BlueFire )

[BlueFire]

Oh poo.