Segway's P.U.M.A.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Dylflon

I think hybrids are a shitty compromise and we could do better. BRING ON THE ELECTRICS!

Electrics aren't the best compromise either, since you have a 50% chance that your electric car is really powered by coal (at least in the US where 50% of all electricity is from coal fired plants).

That, and the battery is a huge issue. 100% electrics have horrible ranges, and while they might get better with time, it will likely take 50 years or more to make a battery powerful enough to power industrial vehicles, trucks and SUV's. The only other way for it to work would be to build a network of electrical " gas stations" across the US, and that would require a massive change in infrastructure, as well as considerations of how long it takes to charge a battery of that size. It takes me 4 hours to charge my lithium ion battery cell phone. I doubt people would be willing to wait that long to recharge.

Thats why I think hybrids (electric/hyrdrogen/carbon combos) are the real future of US travel once costs are reduced and it becomes mass market driven instead of niche market driven. The advantage for your belief, is that hybrids realistically allow for the future development of improved electric technology that could make your ideal fuel more pragmatic over time. Perhaps, if we expanded on this research?

http://www.tfcbooks.com/articles/tws12.htm

We simply can't ignore that our nation (the US) was built around the car, and that puts us at a significant disadvantage when trying to create cars that run on alternative fuels that are marketable in the US.

[KillerGremlin]

Not to mention charging up your electric car takes a while......means you have to leave it in the garage overnight....

[manasecret]

Project Better Place is the best idea so far to make electric cars work, and I believe it can. There has been much buzz about it lately. Wired magazine had a cover-story on it a few months ago.

Essentially the idea boils down to having all electric cars, that when going to a re-"fueling" station, instead of sitting there and waiting for the battery to charge, pre-charged batteries from the station are simply switched out with the one in your car. In this case, you don't really "own" the battery, although you do, because you would switch them out with pre-charged different ones all the time.

As quoted from Wikipedia (and backed up from the Wired article I read), "Better Place will build its first electric vehicle networks in Denmark, Israel and Australia^[1] where the electricity will be generated by renewable energy." They've already made a deal with the automaker Renault who will be building the electric cars.

The range of the car is about 110 miles on one battery, but the distance you can drive would only be limited by the battery station infrastructure.

It's the best idea I've heard to actually make electric cars viable.

[Fyacin]

I say hydrogen is far more likely to replace gas then anything. It just seems like it has the least infrastructure to overcome, and it's incredibly plentiful.

[KillerGremlin]

Originally Posted by manasecret

Project Better Place is the best idea so far to make electric cars work, and I believe it can. There has been much buzz about it lately. Wired magazine had a cover-story on it a few months ago.

Essentially the idea boils down to having all electric cars, that when going to a re-"fueling" station, instead of sitting there and waiting for the battery to charge, pre-charged batteries from the station are simply switched out with the one in your car. In this case, you don't really "own" the battery, although you do, because you would switch them out with pre-charged different ones all the time.

As quoted from Wikipedia (and backed up from the Wired article I read), "Better Place will build its first electric vehicle networks in Denmark, Israel and Australia^[1] where the electricity will be generated by renewable energy." They've already made a deal with the automaker Renault who will be building the electric cars.

The range of the car is about 110 miles on one battery, but the distance you can drive would only be limited by the battery station infrastructure.

It's the best idea I've heard to actually make electric cars viable.

That's pretty sweet...I'd say that would be the best bet to making electric cars work. I just wonder if the costs of implementing that on a global scale would be worthwile, or if a cheaper alternate (green) fuel will be coming down the pipe soon.

[manasecret]

Another problem is making the thing automated. The idea is to make it so that you pull in, and a machine takes out your battery and puts a new one in. All with little error.

I imagine one of those automatic mechanical car wash machines -- y'know those ones at self-wash places and gas stations that always seem to be broken? -- except they do batteries and they're even less reliable because everyone is using it.

I can't wait to get feedback from the tests in Israel and the others.

[Dylflon]

Here in glorious British Columbia, our electricity is pretty much all hydro.

Therefore we can drive electrics and still be super cool.

[Dylflon]

Oh, and you guys seem to be taking the anti-electric arguments that seem to be mysteriously popping up all over the place despite the glowing reviews from everyone who has been in test groups for electric cars.

http://www.peachygreen.com/electric-...tric-car-myths

Here is for the counter arguments.

[Professor S]

Dyflon, I hate to say it but the only "myths" involved in that article are the author's counter-arguments. Most of what the author cites are arguments based on technology that doesn't yet exist. Its a bunch of "shoulds" and "will" but there is little "does". The Volt is still at least a year away and still gets less that 40 miles per charge. It's nice that people think it will get up to 80, but thats a big "if". Even with 80 miles per charge, I still think an American car needs 100 miles per charge before it will be a true fuel replacement alternative

I'd love to see electric cars succeed. But that article did little to dispel electric car criticisms.

[Jason1]

Originally Posted by Professor S

Electrics aren't the best compromise either, since you have a 50% chance that your electric car is really powered by coal (at least in the US where 50% of all electricity is from coal fired plants).

Now wait just a second, that is true to an extent but not entirely. It is true that when you actually plug in the car the electricity could be coming from a coal power plant, I'll give you that. But here is how the Volt actually works for longer distance driving...

Lets say your going on a 200 mile trip. Your car is fully charged before you leave so obviously it will swith over to the gasoline powered engine after 40 miles. But, as soon as it does this, the engine will begin to re-charge the electric motor, so after awhile the gasoline engine will again turn off and the car should be able to go another 40 miles on the electric engine. GM says on a long trip, combining this on and off action of the electric motor, the VOLT should average over 100mpg. That sounds pretty good to me.

[Dyne]

This thread boggles my mind. The companies have done nothing wrong. Why are people getting upset?

From a design perspective the PUMA works. It seems like there's a lot of filling of blanks being done here despite the problem and solution being quite clear cut on the behalf of the developers of electric cars in general.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Dyne

This thread boggles my mind. The companies have done nothing wrong. Why are people getting upset?

From a design perspective the PUMA works. It seems like there's a lot of filling of blanks being done here despite the problem and solution being quite clear cut on the behalf of the developers of electric cars in general.

I'm not upset with electric cars, per se, but instead I'm upset at stupid ideas being funded by failing companies that rely on your and my tax dollars. The PUMA is not an electric car. It is not intended to be driven on highways or existing infratsructure, but instead is a casual vehicle that demnds that brand new infrastructure be built. That and it's essentially a two seated version of an already failed product.

True electric cars, on the other hand, make more sense because they meet existing demands, use existing infratstructure, but have problems regarding battery life, charging, affordability and disposability. These aren't overwhelming problems, but one's that need to be overcome before they will be widely accepted as a fossil fuel replacement.

Mainly, I am frustrated at simplistic solutions based in idealism and not pragmatism. I'd love to see people combine hydrogen/carbon/electric options to make a beast of a vehicle fit for consumer and commercial use that gets 50-80 mpg but still has excellent power, size and style that have proven to be attractive to American buyers.

We're headed in that direction, but the PUMA does not fit into a workable model, IMO, and they are using taxpayer dollars to do so. Thats my issue.

Jason, if the Volt can do what they claim, it's definitely a step in the right direction, but the proposed price points aren't that great from what I've read. I'd like to see them come down, but instead they seem to continue to pump the price up farther and farther. Maybe thats necessary in the long run, but not an immediate solution. Personally, I see so much cheap hydrogen out there that only emits water when burned, and I wonder why we aren't pshing harder in that direction.

[Jason1]

Originally Posted by Professor S

Jason, if the Volt can do what they claim, it's definitely a step in the right direction, but the proposed price points aren't that great from what I've read. I'd like to see them come down, but instead they seem to continue to pump the price up farther and farther. Maybe thats necessary in the long run, but not an immediate solution. Personally, I see so much cheap hydrogen out there that only emits water when burned, and I wonder why we aren't pshing harder in that direction.

I also love the Hydrogen idea, but I think the main problem with it is infrastructure. Where do you go to put Hydrogen in your car? The costs of setting up hydrogen stations all over the country would be astronomical. But maybe it just needs to be spent, I dont know there obviously is no ideal quick soultion.

[KillerGremlin]

I think the Puma is dumb because it is supposed to cut down on urban traffic. Come on.......you REALLY think you can sell that BS to me? Sorry. I live in the major metropolitan area known as Chicago and traffic and commuting sucks ass here. They need to invest more money in public transportation and solving the never-ending highway issue. Rush hour inbound/outbound Chicago traffic is some of the worst in the nation. Driving around in a little segway-mobile isn't going to resolve shit except adding another annoyance to bikers. And I have nothing against bikers, it's green and we already have a bunch of bike paths. That to me is a wise investment...that and adding more funds to our shoddy bus system and dirty underground train system. Hope the olympics go to Rio...

Reason cities have traffic is commuters. Commuters can't drive 45-miles in a little segway thingy.

[Jason1]

Really the only American City I can see that working in is New York, and even then it will really only work if you stay in Manhattan all the time. I think everywhere else you at times need to go much faster than 35MPH.