why would you get married?

[KillerGremlin]

Originally Posted by Bond

Sorry, I was being a bit sarcastic in my answer. Here's what I really I think:

I view all the grand choices of life (the relationship you choose with your family, whom you associate with, your profession, and your spouse) as a road to self-actualization, that is, the pinnacle of one's existence.

While I do think one can lead a very meaningful and purposeful life without a spouse, I do not believe that it will be a fully realized life. To your family, you have given your love, to your associates and friends, you have given your trust, to your profession, you have given your intellect, and to your spouse, you have given your soul.

very insightful bond
reminds me of this cliche quote:

and in the end the love you take
is equal to the love you make

[Bond]

Originally Posted by KillerGremlin

But last Catholic wedding I went to was a joke...it was just so hypocritical. The sinning vs. Catholic tradition; hypocrisy extreme. Actually, pretty normal stuff for Catholics.

Please expand, if you are willing.

[TheSlyMoogle]

I couldn't get married even if I wanted to.

Marriage is a silly social construct to me. I mean it's nothing but a piece of paper.

Socially you get:

Tax breaks
Better Benefits
Better chance at getting credit and stuff.

Why should Marriage be "The Next Step"? Saying it is, it's like saying before you were engaged or married that you would have less on your conscious cheating on your significant other than you would after you were married or something?

I mean, it's only natural to get married because society made it that way. It's "Normal" and so most people who are straight end up doing it.

I also think it's silly that people get extra benefits and perks for signing a piece of fucking paper. Why should those people get benefits that the person who remains single cannot?

I also find people who say that life with their other is so much better after marriage than before... well they're just dumb. I mean honestly what did you do besides have some ceremony, get some rings, and sign a paper that made things any different? Other than perhaps the said commitment in front of people I don't see how that changes things. Look at us we're married, we're committed, we're going to be together now forever. How is that any different than just telling people "Hey this is my gf/bf and I love them, we're going to be together forever." It's not, just option 2 cost a lot less.

Unfortunately society is structured to provide so many perks towards signing that piece of paper that people feel pressured to do so. I mean yeah if you love someone and you're straight or live in a state where gay marriage is legal, fuck yeah, do it. Fuck the system and get more free benefits and shit off my tax money, yet never allow me the right to do it.

So in short...

I think marriage is lame. Just a fucking term. Your ring, your paper, it's all bullshit to me. I feel that if society wasn't so structured toward marriage, if it was stripped of its benefits and perks I feel you would see a lot less marriage.

[KillerGremlin]

Originally Posted by Bond

Please expand, if you are willing.

My mom's side of the family is Catholic, and my dad's side is Methodist. As I recently discovered having some heart-to-hearts with my dad, he's pretty much an atheist. I assume that is part of the reason why my family goes to Catholic church; my dad probably didn't feel much need to defend his Methodist background.

As far as Christianity goes, Catholicism has the richest history of any denomination just because it is the oldest (the Roman Empire took up Christianity, followed by the split into Roman Catholicism/Eastern Orthodox). Catholicism predates the Protestant Reformation by leaps and bounds, so Catholicism was really a driving force in the history of both Western and Eastern European History.

Just from what I learned at church and at religious education, Catholicism is pretty strict in terms of no sex before marriage, masturbation guilt, confirmation and all that sorts. Part of my decision to move away from Catholicism was because I felt that many of the rules were hypocritical, too extreme to actually follow, and even taking some of the New Testament's teachings out of context. There is also the issue of the Pope, and some of the Pope's are okay: I read one book written by the late Pope John Paul II, and it was both intelligent and optimistic. Pope John Paul II is a rare beacon of both intelligence and philosophy in the Catholic church. I know people love to put down Catholics, and I don't blame them; but before you poo-poo the religion read one of the late John Paul II's books.

But anyway, there is a lengthy Catholic history. I'm not sure when the Catholic church really took an active stance regarding marriage, I believe it was around the time St. Augustine argued that if you want to get close to God you remain celibate...but if you must lust, do so in marriage. Catholic weddings entail a lengthy church service. The service entails mass, communion, prayer, and the whole works. So, adding the wedding you get a 90 minute service.

Anyway, this summer someone on my mom's side got married. He is well off, working a business type job making 250k+ a year. He married into a rich family (mansions, jags, closed gate community). I know both the bride and groom don't follow Catholic teachings. I assume they had premarital sex, I know they didn't lose their virginity to each other (well...don't know about the bride). Just based on some of the family and friends who attended the wedding, a very elitist bunch, I could assume they don't necessarily follow all Catholic teachings...like helping out the poor and not living in excess (but come on, who actually cares about that part of the Bible :eyeroll: )

The priest did a special Homily (speech after the Gospel) for the wedding, and it was just so contrived and hypocritical...it was talking about love and how God is the driving force behind these two meeting and getting married (but what about their past relationships, their past SEXUAL relationships). And then the focus of the Homily shifted to talking about how after the serious church service it is time to go celebrate: let's go indulge in alcohol and food! (isn't gluttony a sin?)

Look, I moved my beliefs away from Catholicism when I realized I was practicing bad Catholicism. I don't hate gays, I'm mostly pro-choice with abortion, I'm down with premarital sex, I don't think I need to go through a priest for confession, and I think 95% of the Pope's are jackasses. Would I be a good Catholic if I went to church every Sunday and suffered because of my beliefs? No, I'd be an effing hypocrite.

I just felt like the religious part of the wedding was very contrived. And some of the people on my mom's side of the family are very religious, so I thought it added to the irony to see this dichotomy of people who obviously practice Catholicism because it is tradition vs. the people who are actually serious about being Catholics.

Other than formality and tradition, what was the point of the ceremony? That's my point.

But hey, maybe they did it the Catholic way. Maybe they had confession before they got married. Problem absolved!

Edit: I'm also well aware of Original Sin. I understand no one is perfect and we will sin. And I understand that I should not be judging because I am a sinner myself. But here's my take on these two things.

Original Sin: Everyone sins. The thing is, if you GENUINELY try to be a Catholic and sin...well that's okay. That is what confession is for. If you remove Catholic dogma from your life save for the one hour you spend at church every week, I do not think you qualify as being a good Catholic. In regard to the second point: I don't think I am being judgmental so much as observant. I made some personal decisions and moved away from the Catholic faith, and one reason was because I felt like Catholic dogma clashed with my own personal beliefs.

[BreakABone]

Would anyone get married for money?
I know it seems sleazy, but come on not everyone on this planet is the beacon on the moral compass.

[thatmariolover]

Originally Posted by TheSlyMoogle

I couldn't get married even if I wanted to.

Marriage is a silly social construct to me. I mean it's nothing but a piece of paper.

Socially you get:

Tax breaks
Better Benefits
Better chance at getting credit and stuff.

Why should Marriage be "The Next Step"? Saying it is, it's like saying before you were engaged or married that you would have less on your conscious cheating on your significant other than you would after you were married or something?

I mean, it's only natural to get married because society made it that way. It's "Normal" and so most people who are straight end up doing it.

I also think it's silly that people get extra benefits and perks for signing a piece of fucking paper. Why should those people get benefits that the person who remains single cannot?

I also find people who say that life with their other is so much better after marriage than before... well they're just dumb. I mean honestly what did you do besides have some ceremony, get some rings, and sign a paper that made things any different? Other than perhaps the said commitment in front of people I don't see how that changes things. Look at us we're married, we're committed, we're going to be together now forever. How is that any different than just telling people "Hey this is my gf/bf and I love them, we're going to be together forever." It's not, just option 2 cost a lot less.

Unfortunately society is structured to provide so many perks towards signing that piece of paper that people feel pressured to do so. I mean yeah if you love someone and you're straight or live in a state where gay marriage is legal, fuck yeah, do it. Fuck the system and get more free benefits and shit off my tax money, yet never allow me the right to do it.

So in short...

I think marriage is lame. Just a fucking term. Your ring, your paper, it's all bullshit to me. I feel that if society wasn't so structured toward marriage, if it was stripped of its benefits and perks I feel you would see a lot less marriage.

That's one side of the coin. I think the other side is that it is a ceremonial gesture that you are committed. It doesn't negate or belittle the commitment that you hopefully felt before getting married, but there is a certain amount of pride in finding a significant other to spend your life with.

There are so many parts to marriage. Love, Romance, Intimacy, Sex, Procreation, Trust and dozens more. Shouldn't you be proud of your spouse? Shouldn't you want to tell the world 'I am Man, and I have continued the cycle'?

I think your frustration is tied to the fact that government has too big a hand in marriage. And I would agree with you. But don't let that embitter you to marriage. Marriage is what you make it.

As for myself, I would get married if I could find the right girl. But I will not settle for familiar or easy. And the fear of being alone has not troubled me yet. I admit, it's discouraging when you meet so many girls that want to rush into marriage with the first guy to tie a string to their heart. I'm not afraid of being alone, but I want to find somebody to spend my time with because it makes life better. I need to find a girl that thinks along the same lines, and at 23 there just aren't many of them.

[Bond]

Originally Posted by KillerGremlin

Just from what I learned at church and at religious education, Catholicism is pretty strict in terms of no sex before marriage, masturbation guilt, confirmation and all that sorts. Part of my decision to move away from Catholicism was because I felt that many of the rules were hypocritical, too extreme to actually follow, and even taking some of the New Testament's teachings out of context. There is also the issue of the Pope, and some of the Pope's are okay: I read one book written by the late Pope John Paul II, and it was both intelligent and optimistic. Pope John Paul II is a rare beacon of both intelligence and philosophy in the Catholic church. I know people love to put down Catholics, and I don't blame them; but before you poo-poo the religion read one of the late John Paul II's books.

I think the doctrines you referenced on marriage and such are certainly the ideal way in which a Catholic should live on earth. So perhaps the standards are set unrealistically high, but I'm not sure if they are so unrealistic. They certainly take will and determination to follow, but don't all rewarding things require this?

[thatmariolover]

Originally Posted by Bond

I think the doctrines you referenced on marriage and such are certainly the ideal way in which a Catholic should live on earth.

This is fairly similar to how I interpret religion as a whole. It's north on the moral compass, but everybody has to take a detour now again - it's not realistic to hold yourself to those standards. If you can, good for you, but that doesn't mean you should impose those expectations on somebody else.

[ZebraRampage]

Originally Posted by thatmariolover

As for myself, I would get married if I could find the right girl. But I will not settle for familiar or easy. And the fear of being alone has not troubled me yet. I admit, it's discouraging when you meet so many girls that want to rush into marriage with the first guy to tie a string to their heart. I'm not afraid of being alone, but I want to find somebody to spend my time with because it makes life better. I need to find a girl that thinks along the same lines, and at 23 there just aren't many of them.

I feel the same way as you. I've been single for about a month now, and I'm not afraid of being alone, but it does kind of suck not having someone to be intimate with and spend time with.

You're also right about how tough it is to find the right girl for you, especially if you want somebody unique, and who thinks the same way, and probably has similar mannerisms. I'm looking for the same thing, because I know that that will make me feel even closer to her, which will make me feel more comfortable, like I am with my family. So in the end, hopefully she'll feel like family to me.

Maybe that's another way of interpreting why you'd get married too. Maybe it's just all about the continuation of family. I believe that this point was kind of said already, and I did read all the posts, but it was a while ago and I don't feel like going through them again to see if someone else said it. Anyway, I kind of blanked out now, so maybe I'll come back later and add some more thoughts.

[KillerGremlin]

Originally Posted by Bond

I think the doctrines you referenced on marriage and such are certainly the ideal way in which a Catholic should live on earth. So perhaps the standards are set unrealistically high, but I'm not sure if they are so unrealistic. They certainly take will and determination to follow, but don't all rewarding things require this?

Sure. They are ideal....I mean, repressing millions of years of evolution and fighting off my biological want to sexorz seems backwards.

Anyway, I do agree that many rewarding things require determination.

[KillerGremlin]

Originally Posted by thatmariolover

If you can, good for you, but that doesn't mean you should impose those expectations on somebody else.

I always say, "If all religious people let God do the judging, the world would be a better place."