Batman Begins Talkback *Spoilers Version*

[Vampyr]

I saw the movie today, and it is the best comic book movie I have ever seen, even better than Spider-Man and X-Men, which I thought were fantastic. This was the first, and only, good batman movie to date.

They fixed one of the things that I found most annoying in the old movies: his mobility. In the old batman movies his leather suit was so thick and tight that he could barely move with it on. He had a very small degree of freedom, and I didn't find it realistic that he could win a fight with it on.

Another thing that they fixed that really annoyed me was the toughness of Batman. In the old movies he had been fighting crime for years and had been through extensive combat training and had experiance, but then in the second one a woman came along, fell out a building and turned into Cat Woman for a day, and all of a sudden she was kicking his ass. He pretty much owned everyone in this movie.

Everything about the movie was done well. I liked the way they had Morgan Freeman explain how all the gadgets and gear worked, and I liked how they gave him the long bat-claws that he has in the comics. Not to mention he can glide!

And I agree that the Batmobile should stay exactly the same. I love how they explained his access to such weaponry through his companies military relations, and his stuff should keep that military feel...it makes it seem more down-to-earth and realistic. Lets face it: the original batmobile serves no tactical purpose.

And the snarling was fantastic, I thought. He was trying to create the image that he was a monster, and the snarling was integral to that. Someone mentioned the consistancy of his voice, but I think that that was done to symbolism "who" he was at the time. Sometimes he was the legendary bat-monster, but at other times, such as the scene with him and Rachel when he reveals his identity, he is being a human.

And the blurry and too-fast-to-follow action scenes were a little annoying, but I think that was done so you could see just how impossible it was to fight him. I actually said "I can't even keep up with him" during one of the fight scenes, so it's hard to imagine how scary that would have been for the criminals, and fear was the main thing he was going for.

The scarecrow was the best villian from any of the movies. I know who the scarecrow is, but I don't own any comics with him in it. Are there any comic novels that are stare the ScareCrow as the main villian? I can't keep up with buying a comic every month in a series, so I always just buy the collective novels.

The parts with the special effects involving the hallucagen (sp?) were personally my favorite parts of the movie. I couldn't stop grinning at the part where batman shot it into Crane's eyes and then he turned into a bat-monster.

The only part of the movie that dissapointed me was the level of involvement of the scarecrow...I really wanted to see another battle after Crane went full fledged insane and became the 100% scarecrow. Hopefully he will be in an upcoming film.


edit: I also liked The Dark Knight Returns. The opening passage depicting a bar with old super heroes gives me chills every time I read it. Although I admit my favorite part is when Batman beats the crap out of Superman...

[Joeiss]

Great movie! I just saw it with my dad at an IMAX screen. I really loved how Batman looked HUGE in his suit. He looked like a tank! Scarecrow was cool, too. I was a bit confused because I never heard of Liam Neeson's character before, since I never read any comics or anything, but I still enjoyed it very very much!

Can't wait for the next one with The Joker!

[Ginkasa]

There's going to be a sequel. Unfortunately, Rachel Dawes is being replaced by some other love interest. Not so much ticked at the loss of the character, but that we're apparentely going to be getting a new girl every single movie..

Batman Begins Sequel Chatter


/me shrugs and walks away

[Vampyr]

Originally Posted by Link1130

There's going to be a sequel. Unfortunately, Rachel Dawes is being replaced by some other love interest. Not so much ticked at the loss of the character, but that we're apparentely going to be getting a new girl every single movie..

Batman Begins Sequel Chatter


* Link1130 shrugs and walks away

As always.

Besides, you could tell from the end of the first one that Rachel wouldn't be back.

"Everyone is in agreement that the movie's strength is with Christian Bale, Michael Caine and Morgan Freeman," claims Page Six. "The next romantic interest will be a much stronger actress. ... Warner is happy that people are now focusing on who'll be playing the Joker rather than Katie and Tom."

Ouch. lol.

[DarkMaster]

Serves that bitch right for stealing Batman's thunder. She was actually promoting War of the Worlds on various talk shows instead of Batman Begins. Like wtf mate?

[Vampyr]

I saw her on the MTV movie awards, and she's giddy as a school girl because she's actually dating Tom Cruise. He's like the celebrities celebrity.

[Solid Snake]

I saw the movie and enjoyed if very much, most definetly the best Bat Man movie to date. My only complaint was the fast camera movement in the fight scenes. Every thing else was very well tought out and you understand Batman much better in this movie.

I still like the Spider Man and X-Men movies a little more than I liked Batman begins.

My rating: 4 out of 5 stars.

[MuGen]

The one thing that jumped out about Batman Begins was the atmosphere it created. It was a very dark and grim Gotham, and it presented fear to everyone who encountered Batman. I like also how he was more of an assassin then a 'jump through the glass and say 'freeze!'' type of guy.

The other Batman movies made Gotham and the atmosphere seem carnivalish and circus-like and Batman never did anything stealthy. He just dropped through the roof and was like, "You won't get away with this!"

I was watching Batman Forever on TNT the other day..... omg.... Gotham City looked so much like a circus tent. Theres no presence of reality in the city, no one around except for a victim and people with ugly makeup and joker get ups.

In Batman Begins you saw the suffering and need in people in the slums of Gotham, real people.... reality..... not the whole city overrun by joker juniors.

[Teuthida]

As an action movie I guess it was decent. As a Batman movie it flat out sucked. I can't believe I actually hated it more than when I read the script. While Bale does a fine Bruce Wayne he doesn't get Batman...AT ALL. I wasn't award Batman popped some steroids or whatever makes him so god damn "argh" everytime he puts on the cowl. There were a few scenes I enjoyed but overall I can't believe I went to see this thing in the theaters. Though was nice sticking Mr. Zsasz into the mix. And what's with the pronunciation of "Ra's"? Has B:TAS been wrong all that time? *sigh* What a disappointment.

And some people even after watching it don't get that this is separate from the other movies. One of the girls I was with thought Scarecrow was Poison Ivy's sidekick (she was thinking of Bane who they ruined in Batman & Robin) and thought Joe Chill was going to become Mr. Freeze.)

Burton's movies completely and utterly own this thing.

[Vampyr]

Originally Posted by Danchastu

As an action movie I guess it was decent. As a Batman movie it flat out sucked. I can't believe I actually hated it more than when I read the script. While Bale does a fine Bruce Wayne he doesn't get Batman...AT ALL. I wasn't award Batman popped some steroids or whatever makes him so god damn "argh" everytime he puts on the cowl. There were a few scenes I enjoyed but overall I can't believe I went to see this thing in the theaters. Though was nice sticking Mr. Zsasz into the mix. And what's with the pronunciation of "Ra's"? Has B:TAS been wrong all that time? *sigh* What a disappointment.

And some people even after watching it don't get that this is separate from the other movies. One of the girls I was with thought Scarecrow was Poison Ivy's sidekick (she was thinking of Bane who they ruined in Batman & Robin) and thought Joe Chill was going to become Mr. Freeze.)

Burton's movies completely and utterly own this thing.

You cannot be serious.

Do you read the Batman comics? If so you would know that this movie is about a thousand times closer to them than the Tim Burton movies were.

[Teuthida]

Yes, I've read the comics. Closer doesn't always mean better...and wasn't even that close. Ra's Al Ghul had no part in the training of Batman. The two never met until Bats had Robin. And no Ubu? Pfft. Batman never had a fear of bats...he uses the symbol because criminals are a superstitious lot. And where is all the forensics training he is suppose to also have learned. Not rely on Fox to do all the dirty work. The only comics I have with Fox are the No Man Land ones and don't believe he ever has a clue.

I'm assuming by closer you're referring to Burton using Joker as a stand in for the murderer of Thomas and Martha Wayne. The Killing Joke came out a year before Burton's Batman was released. So at the time of the production of the movie Joker really didn't have a true past and thus was stuck into Batman's creation. And they were suppose to have been leaving a movie of Zorro, not some Opera. Zorro was a big influence on the costume of Batman. The best origin story is in Mask of the Phantasm. Bruce W. Timm really should of have a hand in the live-action movie.

Batman was no where near the detective he's suppose to have been which is also how Ra's Al Ghul always referred to him; "The Detective." Here he's just a real angry guy who screams a lot. Batman is suppose to have a cool and collected demeanor.

In the fall gonna have a prof. who worked on The Dark Knight Returns (which I really did care for either) with Frank Miller as well as a Batman editor. Wondering what their opinion is gonna be on this movie.

I hope the 2nd one is decent. Dunno if Nolan has it in him to really make Joker Joker.

[Ginkasa]

Originally Posted by Danchastu

Yes, I've read the comics. Closer doesn't always mean better...and wasn't even that close. Ra's Al Ghul had no part in the training of Batman. The two never met until Bats had Robin. And no Ubu? Pfft.

That's no different than stuffing the Joker into the role of Bruce's parents killer. I don't think the Joker originally appeared in the comics until after Robin was introduced, either, but there he was in Batman '89, and there Robin wasn't.

Originally Posted by Danchastu

Batman never had a fear of bats...he uses the symbol because criminals are a superstitious lot.

In the movie, both reasons are used. No, Batman never says "superstitious lot," but I don't think he ever has outside of the comics. But he does dress as a bat to scare criminals. And frankly, I think Bruce's inspiration coming from his fear bats is much, much better than from "a bat randomly flew in the window at the precise moment that Bruce needed inspiration."

Originally Posted by Danchastu

And where is all the forensics training he is suppose to also have learned. Not rely on Fox to do all the dirty work. The only comics I have with Fox are the No Man Land ones and don't believe he ever has a clue.

Its a tad more realistic and much easier to portray in a movie if Bruce gets his weapons from some outside source than developing every single one by himself. Considering Nolan's intent in the movie (to make it grounded in a sort of semi-relaity), it works better.

Originally Posted by Danchastu

I'm assuming by closer you're referring to Burton using Joker as a stand in for the murderer of Thomas and Martha Wayne. The Killing Joke came out a year before Burton's Batman was released. So at the time of the production of the movie Joker really didn't have a true past and thus was stuck into Batman's creation.

What about Joe Chill? Wasn't he named by then? Or was he still nameless thug? It doesn't matter. What matters is that Burton changed a very important part of Batman's history by replacing Chill with the Joker, and giving him a fake name like "Jack Napier." Ruins the whole movie. I can't believe they would mess around with Batman like that.

Originally Posted by Danchastu

And they were suppose to have been leaving a movie of Zorro, not some Opera. Zorro was a big influence on the costume of Batman. The best origin story is in Mask of the Phantasm. Bruce W. Timm really should of have a hand in the live-action movie.

I always figured that Zorro had more of an impression on being Batman (vigilante fighting for justice with a mask) on a whole than just a costume. Anyway, yeah seeing an opera is different, but so? Its not like the entire mythos depends on Bruce seeing Zorro. It works just as well in the movie.

Originally Posted by Danchuastu

Batman was no where near the detective he's suppose to have been which is also how Ra's Al Ghul always referred to him; "The Detective." Here he's just a real angry guy who screams a lot. Batman is suppose to have a cool and collected demeanor.

Like Batman was a detective in the Burton movies? As I seem to recall, the most "detective" stuff he did was stare at a TV screen and then pop out an answer.

And Batman in Begins is cool and collected. The only time he isn't is when he's interrogating somebody. Frankly, I find a guy who's screaming at me to be a tad bit scarier than some guy who's calmly asking me. This is, by the way, pretty much how he is shown in TAS, the producer of which you wished could have been involved in the movie.


/me shrugs and walks away

[Perfect Stu]

GOD DAMMIT FINALLY they do BATMAN the way BATMAN is supposed to be done.


Bruce Wayne is now an actual CHARACTER on the big screen...he's believable. He was a lilttle rich kid but then us viewers got to see WHY he became the DARK KNIGHT. This director told the story the way it was meant to be told in cinema...Christian Bale was perfectly cast. The best Batman by far, it's no contest. He's believable...he makes the old Batman's look like they were out trick-or-treating instead of fighting corruption. In the movie I look at his character and think "this is the kinda motherf*cker who WOULD go the way of the Batman".

The theme was dark, thank GOD. It wasnt a kid's movie with lame jokes from Tommy Lee Jones and Arnie. The jokes in the movie were simple, well delivered and provided good comic relief. I wouldnt take my 8 year old (if I had one) to see this movie and that's the way it should be. He's the dark knight. He doesnt put on a show...he hides in the shadows and uses FEAR against criminals.

Michael Cane, Morgan Freeman, Gary Oldman, Liam Neeson: THANK you for doing this movie. You were all great. All Katie Holmes needed to do was look pretty, and not stink up the screen. Katie? You looked pretty. You didnt stink up the screen. Good enough.

I'm so happy that I got to see a real BATMAN movie.

Right up there close to Sin City as one of the best movies I've seen this year...

[Vampyr]

Originally Posted by Danchastu

Yes, I've read the comics. Closer doesn't always mean better...and wasn't even that close. Ra's Al Ghul had no part in the training of Batman. The two never met until Bats had Robin. And no Ubu? Pfft. Batman never had a fear of bats...he uses the symbol because criminals are a superstitious lot. And where is all the forensics training he is suppose to also have learned. Not rely on Fox to do all the dirty work. The only comics I have with Fox are the No Man Land ones and don't believe he ever has a clue.

I'm assuming by closer you're referring to Burton using Joker as a stand in for the murderer of Thomas and Martha Wayne. The Killing Joke came out a year before Burton's Batman was released. So at the time of the production of the movie Joker really didn't have a true past and thus was stuck into Batman's creation. And they were suppose to have been leaving a movie of Zorro, not some Opera. Zorro was a big influence on the costume of Batman. The best origin story is in Mask of the Phantasm. Bruce W. Timm really should of have a hand in the live-action movie.

Batman was no where near the detective he's suppose to have been which is also how Ra's Al Ghul always referred to him; "The Detective." Here he's just a real angry guy who screams a lot. Batman is suppose to have a cool and collected demeanor.

In the fall gonna have a prof. who worked on The Dark Knight Returns (which I really did care for either) with Frank Miller as well as a Batman editor. Wondering what their opinion is gonna be on this movie.

I hope the 2nd one is decent. Dunno if Nolan has it in him to really make Joker Joker.

I was referring to the atmosphere of the comics. I would never say that a comic book movie had to continuous and in line with the comics, because, quite frankly, the COMICS aren't even inline with the comics. They skip around so much, and have so many people writing so many different series about the same character that it would be impossible to make a movie that flowed with them perfectly because there are so many versions.

I hope the second one follows the same trend as the first one, for pretty much all the reasons Stu stated.

[BreakABone]

Well seeing how Daniel wasn't that interested in the movie from the script, can't really blame his opinion.. Though it seems flawed.

Originally Posted by Danchastu

As an action movie I guess it was decent. As a Batman movie it flat out sucked. I can't believe I actually hated it more than when I read the script. While Bale does a fine Bruce Wayne he doesn't get Batman...AT ALL. I wasn't award Batman popped some steroids or whatever makes him so god damn "argh" everytime he puts on the cowl.

Now to be fair, and this is taking it from Bale's POV and several others. Batman becomes a creature for criminals to fear when Bruce puts on the costume. Him speaking in a low whisper (which is what all other batmans do sans George Clooney, who doesn't change his voice at all) wouldn't have worked as well in that scene.
I mean you may think it sounds weird, but just check his interrogation scene with Flass and compare it with most in TAS, he does scream a lot. Though his voice in TAS is much different.
I still prefer the TAS, but the voice grew on me during the movie. Also the subtle changes he made, like he spoke to Rachel in a normal calm manner, same with Gordon, and even Ra's because he knew it wouldn't work with him.

And what's with the pronunciation of "Ra's"? Has B:TAS been wrong all that time? *sigh* What a disappointment.

Well being that there are so many sources (I believe there are like 3 ways to properly pronunce Ra's) I believe the cartoon pronounces it the way Dennis O'Neil intended it to sound.

And some people even after watching it don't get that this is separate from the other movies. One of the girls I was with thought Scarecrow was Poison Ivy's sidekick (she was thinking of Bane who they ruined in Batman & Robin) and thought Joe Chill was going to become Mr. Freeze.)

Burton's movies completely and utterly own this thing.

Yeah well you will get that. The movie being part of a franchise but not part of a series can get confusing.

One of my friends though that Ken Watanbe was really Ra's.

Another thought they were gonna to remake the original movie.

And someone here believed it was just a lead in to the 89 movie.

I don't see how your friends made the connection with ScareCrow/Bane and Freeze/Chill (ok maybe the cold related name but eh).

I will say this, I have never liked Batman '89 as much as Batman Returns. With that said, I think Batman Begins is a better Batman movie then both, but I think Returns is a better movie overall.

Yes, I've read the comics. Closer doesn't always mean better...and wasn't even that close.

Well closer makes it a better Batman movie, but like you said doesn't necessarily make it better.
Most would claim that Batman Returns is the furthest movie from the character and it is my favorite so you have a point there.

Ra's Al Ghul had no part in the training of Batman. The two never met until Bats had Robin. And no Ubu? Pfft.

First pfft? You been hanging out with that Gekko too much.
Second, I usually forgive things like that (for one no source has ever really gone into the origins of batman fighting skills, they tell you he trained, but they never tell you where or with who unless it serves to story.)
Third, for the movie sake they have to do it. It helps introduce other principal characters earlier than say the second hour. No one really faulted Spiderman for Peter's accident to be caused in a museum with genetically altered DNA. There was a little backlash the organic webshooters but eh. Also he didn't meet MJ, Harry or Norman till quite some run in the comics maybe a few years.

Batman never had a fear of bats...he uses the symbol because criminals are a superstitious lot.

You know I was wondering the same thing before I saw the movie. Then I realized, the movie made perfect sense. Why does he randomly choose a bat? Sure it flies into his window (though I believe that was invented in year one) but other than that no real reason.

Here you get his fear for bats as a legit reason for a man dressing up in a bat costume. "I've always been afraid of them, now its time my enemies shared in my fear."

Also similar to MoTP, the wave of bats is what initally scares him and gives him the idea. Watch the scene when he and Andrea discover the bats.

And where is all the forensics training he is suppose to also have learned. Not rely on Fox to do all the dirty work. The only comics I have with Fox are the No Man Land ones and don't believe he ever has a clue.

Well one, Fox isn't really a scientific guy in any other souce. He just runs Wayne Enterprises for Bruce.

You complain about his lack of forensics.. but prefer the Burton films... Oddly the closest thing he has been to a detective was the 60s movie.

As for him not doing any foresnics to be honest, the movie never really calls for him to do any.

The first time he is exposed to the fear toxin, he is exposed so he can't run a test on his own and it wasn't his choice to have Fox run the test either.

Second off, he has no real functioning cave. Its just a cave with some lights and some other bare equipment. In the comics and TAS, he has that gigantic billion dollar computer to help him along.

He was able to figure out Ra's plot though.

I'm assuming by closer you're referring to Burton using Joker as a stand in for the murderer of Thomas and Martha Wayne. The Killing Joke came out a year before Burton's Batman was released. So at the time of the production of the movie Joker really didn't have a true past and thus was stuck into Batman's creation.

Well having the Joker be the murderers of Wayne's parents was one of the bigger pet peeves there are several others with the movie in general.

The fact that the movie focuses more on the Joker than it does Batman.

The fact that Joker even has an origin, since you pointed out "The Killing Joke" you would also notice that he himself doesn't know his origins that is one of the versions he uses.

Batman '89 however gave him a solid good to the word origin, which many people dislike.

And well the fact that he kills freely. In this one his killing (if you want to call em that) border on moral ethics. But in Batman '89 he just kills. Like when he blows up Axel Chemicals. Or in Batman Returns when he straps a bomb on that clown.

And they were suppose to have been leaving a movie of Zorro, not some Opera. Zorro was a big influence on the costume of Batman. The best origin story is in Mask of the Phantasm. Bruce W. Timm really should of have a hand in the live-action movie.

I honestly think Begins handle the origins segment a whole lot better than MoTp. Won't argue which is the best movie, but I think it set it up better. Gave a reason for his guilt, then a reason for his anger and why he can't work within the system and then a reason for a man to dress up as a bat.

I think the whole Zorro/Opera thing is debate. I don't think its critical to the whole story. Unless you wanted a simplifed version as to why he dresses the way he dresses.

Batman was no where near the detective he's suppose to have been which is also how Ra's Al Ghul always referred to him; "The Detective." Here he's just a real angry guy who screams a lot. Batman is suppose to have a cool and collected demeanor.

This batman did have a cool and collected demeanor. Just because he was shouting doesn't mean he wasn't in control of himself. The fact that he used it to his advantage showed he was thiking.

I will point out to my knowledge he doesn't play much of a Detective in Year One nor the origin section of Mask of the Phantasm. And like you mentioned earlier in normal sources, Ra's meets Bruce long after he become Batman in this it isn't the case.

In the fall gonna have a prof. who worked on The Dark Knight Returns (which I really did care for either) with Frank Miller as well as a Batman editor. Wondering what their opinion is gonna be on this movie.

I would assume they would like it since it takes a lot of inspiration from Miller's work.

I hope the 2nd one is decent. Dunno if Nolan has it in him to really make Joker Joker.

Now which joker are we talking here?