Your Religion!

[mickydaniels]

Originally Posted by Ranzid

What about atheist? Like me, ignoring every single form of organised religion, but leading a life by trying to be a good person as much as possible.

So then, you're not an atheist. You're an agnostic.

ag*nos*tic

1.
a. One who believes it is impossible to know whether there is a God.
b. One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.

2. One who is doubtful or noncommittal about something.

[Kitana85]

Originally Posted by mickydaniels

Only one question. Is acknowledging Christ as the Messiah the only difference?

Sort of.. there are Messianic (sp?) Jews, also known as Jews for Jesus, but they're kinda confusing (or confused). The entire new testiment in not considered by Jews, and there is a lot of Jewish doctirine that Xtians no longer accept as relevant. Christians also do not acklowlege the talmud, which contains much Jewish law. Church history also defines much of what the Xtian church currently believes.

I could write more but I have to cram for a latin qizz can you believe we have a quiz already.. we've only had a few days of classes).

[Xantar]

Originally Posted by Vampyr

I dont understand why anyone would be Aetheist. If you would pick a religon, read its religous teachings, have faith and believe in the mercy of its God, then when you die, you have a chance. You have a chance for something better. If you were wrong, and the religon was a much of lies and crap, than what happens? You lay in the ground and rot. With the path you have chosen, thats all you have. Thats the only thing you have to look forward too, you dont even have a chance.

Ah yes, Pascal's Wager. The problem with it is choosing which religion to believe in. Why exactly is it that picking a religion equates to having "faith and believe in the mercy of its God?" Not all religions have a God that's supposed to be merciful. In fact, not all religions have a God.

Besides, you can't exactly just wake up in the morning and say, "Hey, I should be religious so I have a chance for something better. I didn't believe in God before, but I'm going to start believing now."

Originally Posted by mickydaniels

So then, you're not an atheist. You're an agnostic.

I don't get it. I don't see anything in your definition of the word "agnostic" that says an agnostic is someone who, among other things, tries to be a good person as much as possible. Are you saying that if someone is atheist, he can't possibly be making every effort to be good?

With all due respect, I think that's absurd.

I'd say more, but I'm really not sure you've thought through exactly what you're trying to say. If you could clarify more, I'd be happy to discuss my point of view.

By the way, I'm a Buddhist, and I'm also Atheist in the sense that I don't think there is a God. The two are not incompatible.

[ominub]

Originally Posted by jeepnut

Holy run-on sentences Batman!

im a run on sentence type of person.

[jeepnut]

Originally Posted by mickydaniels

So then, you're not an atheist. You're an agnostic.

I'm not sure about this but I don't think that being an atheist means you can't be a good person as Xantar said. It's perfectly logical that you can not believe in God and yet still believe in being moral and living a "good" life.

Originally Posted by Ranzid

What about atheist? Like me, ignoring every single form of organised religion, but leading a life by trying to be a good person as much as possible.

Sure. We believe that God, can save whoever he wants. Who are we to say who will and will not get into heaven? Only God can make that decision. Therefore, we believe that God may save anyone he deems worthy whether they believe in him or not. Heck, I'm sure there are many Atheists out there that are a lot better people than many Christians I know, including myself.

Besides, say there is someone who has lived a life of service to others. They do everything that a Christian is supposed to do. However, they lived in a very remote area. No one ever got to them in their life to teach them about Christ. How can we say they won't get saved simply because no one told them about Jesus? I mean, maybe they won't be, but that's up to God. Meanwhile, I'm not going to rule out the possibility.

[mickydaniels]

Originally Posted by Ranzid

I would say that I'm Atheist, but I don't deny completely that there is maybe something out there. But it's certainly not what traditional religions think it is... I'm pretty sure there is no greater power, but there is so many unanswered questions that we can't deny that possibility.

This is what I actually was referring to, since I guess many just read the last post.

Originally Posted by jeepnut

Heck, I'm sure there are many Atheists out there that are a lot better people than many Christians I know, including myself.

I already know that, and to me it's almost a shame. I don't actually see the Bible as the way a religion should be, but instead the instruction manual for life. Like the numerous times he would be angry at his own chosen people the Jews, who did all the sacrifices and festivals, but were not leading moral lives.

I once heard that it is more moral to do something because it is right instead of because someone stronger than you told you to do so.

[TheGame]

Originally Posted by Ranzid

Because we don't need guidelines in order to be good individuals in life? Because we can accept death and the fact that there's nothing after? And if there's really an afterlife, are you telling me that because I didn't follow any of those organised religions, even though I have been a good man all my life, that I won't be allowed to that place you call heaven?

[keep in mind this is from my belief's point of view, if you have conflicting views I'm not trying to argue, I'm just informing Ranzid about what will happen to him according to my beliefs]

Sorry my friend... but no you wouldn't. Why? Because no man is perfect, and everybody sins... and in order to get in heaven you must be forgiven for your sins and dedicate your life to Christ. Does God make exceptions? As far as I know, he doesn't. But he set the requirements, so eh.

It's not my job to say you are going to hell, because it's not my choice, but based off of what I know it would seem very likely that you would.

Also, you said "Because we can accept death and the fact that there's nothing after?"

I didn't know that was a fact... have you died before or somthing?

[TheGame]

Originally Posted by jeepnut

Besides, say there is someone who has lived a life of service to others. They do everything that a Christian is supposed to do. However, they lived in a very remote area. No one ever got to them in their life to teach them about Christ. How can we say they won't get saved simply because no one told them about Jesus? I mean, maybe they won't be, but that's up to God. Meanwhile, I'm not going to rule out the possibility.

well... I find that reasonable to... but people who hear it and flatly deny it... AND go out and argue against it are the people who are in the most trouble imo. SOme people just have no excuse except that they simply refuse to believe. Some people are so bad that even if events in the bible start happening they would still rather look for another explanation rather than submit and believe. These are the people I have extreme doubt about going to heaven.

[mickydaniels]

Oooooooohhhhhhhh......


Let's open up a can of worms.


Did you know that Jehovah's Witnesses and Seventh-Day Adventists teach that death is the end and there is no judgement until God resurrects all the dead in the history of the earth?
Ecclesiastes 3:18-21 I said in my heart with regard to the sons of men that God is testing them to show them that they are but beasts. For the fate of the sons of men and the fate of the beasts is the same; as one dies, so does the other.They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts; for all is vanity. All go to one place; all are from the dust, and all turn to dust again. Who knows whether the spirit of man goes upward and the sprit of the beast goes down to the earth?
Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward; but the memory of them is lost.
I'm sure that they're not the only ones.

[TheGame]

After you die there is no concept of time... the way I see it you are just KOed when you die. But because heaven is forever, waiting a million years would be just like waiting a second if there is no end. Right?

I may be wrong, I haven't read anything to conflict with it, but I think the second you die in your eyes everything will be done almost instantly... it all depends on if time will exist and how fast it will move. The time of your life on earth would only get smaller and smaller with every passing second in heaven.

The second day of an infant's life is the equivelent of the second 10 years of a 10 year old's life. But the longer you live the more it accelerates. Even if it's just waiting in a shell, when we look back on it a trillion years from now, it will be nothing.

[TheGame]

Originally Posted by mickydaniels

Of course time will exist. It just won't exist for dead people. There were people walking around before us and we have no memory of that stuff because we didn't exist just like after we exist.

sorry, I edited my post a bit.

[mickydaniels]

Originally Posted by TheGame

After you die there is no concept of time... the way I see it you are just KOed when you die. But because heaven is forever, waiting a million years would be just like waiting a second if there is no end. Right?

Even if it's just waiting in a shell, when we look back on it a trillion years from now, it will be nothing.

But what about the dead knowing nothing and having no reward?

[Jason1]

Im Catholic...got confirmed and everything. I only go to church once a month now, whenever my mom makes me.

[Joeiss]

I am Roman Catholic. Well, technically I am Ukranian Catholic, but now I go to a Roman Catholic church.

I am always open to new ideas. I believe that everybody goes to heaven no matter what they believe in, just as long as they are good people!

[Rndm_Perfection]

I don't go to church, I don't study religion (any of them), but I have been brought up under "Christian" beliefs.


What's religion a question of? What will happen when you die... how were you born? The "answer to life" can't be merely thought up by a man (or woman, to all you feminists that can't see the "man" in Woman), I believe. Maybe through technological advances in Science. But... we'd know by now if there was an exceptional divinity. Yet, since dead men tell no tales... many still believe.


What is worth fighting for? Your theory of what will happen when you die? If that is so, don't mind me (anyone for that matter) killing you... and then you can find out if you were right.


My personal belief of the bible (going back into Christianity and other similar... but not necessarily "based upon" religions), is that it is a catalyst for story telling and maintaining domestic ethic values. Perhaps a lot of it was based on the firsthand beliefs of those who wrote it, but maybe that was because most of the stories and ideals were passed to them. But, what I'm pointing out is that it would be "impossible" for one man to guess the nature of the universe's creation, the actuality of divinity, and the aftermath of death. Similarly, I disbelieve that a few brainstormers could be more accurate.


I guess I'm too stuck on mathematics and sciences. While I'm interested in the prospect of accurate religious beliefs, I am currently in disbelief due to the fact that I am unaware of any greater powers (destiny, afterlife, etc...).


The only thing that boggles my mind is the fact that... I am me, not anybody else, and that I am in fact alive. It needs explaining, of course... but I'm not going to just believe something and then wait 'til I die to find out.

[Rndm_Perfection]

Originally Posted by Joeiss

I believe that everybody goes to heaven no matter what they believe in, just as long as they are good people!

You posted after I replied... so I'm going to double post.


As for as Christianity is concerned, I do believe that the God would understand his "creations" enough to let any naturally good hearted person into heaven... rather than make it like an elitist club. Damn those litist clubs *shakes a fist*


Which reminds me of that one South Park episode... where only Mormons got into Heaven *laughs*.

[nWoCHRISnWo]

I'm not religious and I think all religions are complete BS.

PS. There is no god.

[Bond]

Originally Posted by Kitana85

I'm a Christian, I was raised Jewish, until the Lord came to me and changed my life.

Would you like to share how the Lord came to you? It's always interesting how the Lord came to people differently in the past and now he comes in different ways. I'm not really implying anything, just making conversation.

[Rndm_Perfection]

Originally Posted by Bond

Would you like to share how the Lord came to you? It's always interesting how the Lord came to people differently in the past and now he comes in different ways. I'm not really implying anything, just making conversation.

In other words, do you mean:

A) He floated down and had a word with you about your religion

B) One of your friends/associates/random stranger from heaven suggested the change of religion for your sake.

[Vampyr]

Originally Posted by Ominub

hey whats going to happen to you when you die? i dont see you going anywhere do you want to know where you are going to be on the ground rotting just like you said.

Thats almost offensive. Mind you, I said, almost. How do you know I will rot in the ground? How do you know that whatever makes me humane wont go somewhere after I die? I dont know either, but I have a chance. I have an oportunity. You see, I have a dream. I want to live forever. And if there is a chance that having faith, being a good person, and accepting that God is up there, than Im going to do it. If Im wrong, Ill lay in the ground and rot, and it wont really matter. Id like for you to convert, but my friend, I will not lose sleep over it.

Originally Posted by Kitana

I'm a Christian, I was raised Jewish, until the Lord came to me and changed my life. I am now a Christian, as I said before. The denimination I presently practice is Episcoplian, as I find the "high churchness" of it brings me closer to God, and shows some of the best we can give, in terms of worship. Indeed, my personal relationship with God is that which makes me unseceptable to athiest banter. And while I, personally, don't believe you are going to hell, I do think your life would be more fulfilled if you let God into your hearts.I'm not trying to convert anyone... and I think this is not the place for anyone to attemp that.

Hmm, Ive never heard of the Episcoplian denomination. Ill have to research it. Im not sure what their beliefs are, but according to the bible, it is our jobs as Christains to convert people. And I have to disagree with you on another thing, I do think they're going to Hell. You dont confess your sins and believe, than yeah, your going to Hell. Thats what my religon teaches anyway, Im not sure about the Episcoplian denomination and how they translate the bible, though.

Originally Posted by Ranzid

Because we don't need guidelines in order to be good individuals in life? Because we can accept death and the fact that there's nothing after? And if there's really an afterlife, are you telling me that because I didn't follow any of those organised religions, even though I have been a good man all my life, that I won't be allowed to that place you call heaven?

Yes.

What about atheist? Like me, ignoring every single form of organised religion, but leading a life by trying to be a good person as much as possible.

Than youre a good man. But according to my religon, is going to be damned to hell.

Originally Posted by Xantar

Ah yes, Pascal's Wager. The problem with it is choosing which religion to believe in. Why exactly is it that picking a religion equates to having "faith and believe in the mercy of its God?" Not all religions have a God that's supposed to be merciful. In fact, not all religions have a God.

Besides, you can't exactly just wake up in the morning and say, "Hey, I should be religious so I have a chance for something better. I didn't believe in God before, but I'm going to start believing now."

I don't get it. I don't see anything in your definition of the word "agnostic" that says an agnostic is someone who, among other things, tries to be a good person as much as possible. Are you saying that if someone is atheist, he can't possibly be making every effort to be good?

With all due respect, I think that's absurd.

I'd say more, but I'm really not sure you've thought through exactly what you're trying to say. If you could clarify more, I'd be happy to discuss my point of view.

By the way, I'm a Buddhist, and I'm also Atheist in the sense that I don't think there is a God. The two are not incompatible.

I was talking about my God. But if you want to worship another one, go ahead, but I dont approve. But even if you do worship another, you still got a better chance than being an athiest. And its possible to wake up in the morning and just believe. It can happen.

You are right, however, about the agnostic thing. Being Agnostic has nothing to do with not believing but being a good person. It means to recognize that all religons could possibly be right, but you dont believe an any of them.

But Im not going to diss you, because you do have a religon. I will just say that it would be wise to convert because I think your wrong. But Im going to say that because its my job as a christain to conver others. But Buddhism, in my opinion, is a great set of beliefs and teachings.

Originally Posted by TheGame

After you die there is no concept of time... the way I see it you are just KOed when you die. But because heaven is forever, waiting a million years would be just like waiting a second if there is no end. Right?

I may be wrong, I haven't read anything to conflict with it, but I think the second you die in your eyes everything will be done almost instantly... it all depends on if time will exist and how fast it will move. The time of your life on earth would only get smaller and smaller with every passing second in heaven.

The second day of an infant's life is the equivelent of the second 10 years of a 10 year old's life. But the longer you live the more it accelerates. Even if it's just waiting in a shell, when we look back on it a trillion years from now, it will be nothing.

I agree with everything the game has said, especially this. What your saying is that you believe in purgitory, right? Because I believe in purgitory, and I believe in what you said.

well... I find that reasonable to... but people who hear it and flatly deny it... AND go out and argue against it are the people who are in the most trouble imo. SOme people just have no excuse except that they simply refuse to believe. Some people are so bad that even if events in the bible start happening they would still rather look for another explanation rather than submit and believe. These are the people I have extreme doubt about going to heaven.

Yeah, espicially since about 50% of the bible is prophecy and its all coming true so far.

Originally Posted by Random

I guess I'm too stuck on mathematics and sciences. While I'm interested in the prospect of accurate religious beliefs, I am currently in disbelief due to the fact that I am unaware of any greater powers (destiny, afterlife, etc...).

I didnt want to quote everything you said, but it was all well thought out, and I especially liked the part about people not seeing the man in woman. But this was my favorite passage. You say you are too stuck on mathematics and sciences? Then religons bust baffle you. Science can not and never will prove the creation of the universe. There are so many theories, and none can ever be proven. Ponder, for a second, how can science and math ever explain the creationo of the universe? If the big bang theory is true, then I want to know where that ball of material came from that exploaded? How can science explain this? It is a set in stone science fact that matter cannot be created. Then how did our universe ever start? Where did the material first come from to create this place, if matter cant be created? Is it so hard just have faith? To disregard all laws of man and physics, if not just for one second, and imagine that its possible, and that you dont need proof?
Sorry for the ramblings, but thats what I think. The universe is a magnificent thing. Its the most enigmatic thing, in well, the unverse.

Final Words: For all you non believers, if I cant sway you with words of believing so that you have the chance to go to heaven, than what about going to hell? If your wrong, and there is a God, than its going to suck big time for you when you die. You will suffer pain and torture forever. Forever is a strange word, and its impossible for the human brain to comprehend it. You have to understand, if you said "forever is till the end of time" you would be wrong, because forever is longer than that. Forever is forever, if Hell does exist, than imagine it, you will feel ultimate pain that never ends. Never. Never. Never. It goes on and on, and you will never feel a break, never die and leave the pain behind. It will hold onto you, and you will never escape it. If you try to imagine how long forever is, it will start to hurt your brain.

Thus ends my sermon on the soap box. All arguements are welcome.