Sony Motion Controller

[manasecret]

Well, the shots looks pretty, but it seems except for the game with you in it, actually playing the games is a different story:

I think I'm most impressed with what Sony calls the "augmented reality" experiences. Move Party is a great example: the PlayStation Eye's video feed is displayed on the screen – much like the company's EyeToy games – and the game will overlay handheld items right on top of the PlayStation Move controller. In one of the games in Move Party, you guide falling birds with a handheld fan, twisting the fan in clockwise and counterclockwise fashion to blow the birds towards the nests on either side of the screen. The device tracked the controller's position and rotation impressively well – even when I blocked the glowing orb from view of the camera, the game remembered its last position and tried to keep up with my hand motions. Eventually it would get out of sync until I released the glowing orb, and once the camera saw the light…bam, the item snapped right back where it should be.

It does feel like there's a bit of lag with hand motions, but it seems to me that it's because the PlayStation Eye's video feed is a millisecond behind real-life. But the augmented reality overlays match up perfectly with the on-screen controller, a testament to the camera's color sensing combined with the motion and tilt sensing keeping track of everything going on.

There are a couple of "pointer" based games on display, too. A game called "The Shoot," basically a rail shooter along the lines of Resident Evil: Darkside Chronicles or Dead Space Extraction. Players move the PlayStation Move controller to guide the on-screen reticule around the playfield and shoot the incoming enemies. The "lag" I felt in the augmented reality demos was more apparent here because you didn't have your on-screen self guiding the reticule, and it wasn't matching up with any physical object. Plus, the game has its own calibration system and it was throwing off my aim – someone had set up the calibration for wide sweeping motions to guide the reticule just a few inches on-screen. Luckily a quick recalibration with the menu option, and a simple tap of the button on the controller and I was back in business.

I should note that The Shoot did get thrown out of whack in aiming, much like the same thing that happens in Wii Sports Resort's Sword Play. The game has a built-in recentering tool for when the reticule drifts, so it looks like the system may have a similar calibration issue that Wii MotionPlus does.

Sony really needed a better first-person shooter demonstration for the PlayStation Move and its uncreatively named Sub Controller (basically the Wii nunchuk ripoff). The company has a very early, and low-framerate version of SOCOM 4 here that does pointer tracking, similar to Resident Evil 4 on the Wii. It doesn't feel very sensitive in this demo, and that may be more because of SOCOM 4's early-in-development state.

There are some really early game demos here, and the less said about them, the better. Brunswick Bowling is way too early for prime time, and the bowling in Wii Sports Resorts (and even Wii Sports) has absolutely nothing to worry about if the game continues on its current path. Luckily the developer has a half year to work on the bowling game. It needs it, badly.

Then there's the fighting game called Motion Fighter that's gesture-based, and that felt way laggier than it should be, almost disconnecting the player from the on-screen action. The gladiator game in Sports Champions was a little better, but it, too seemed to have more lag in its swing motion than should be comfortable for the "next generation" of motion controllers.

Overall I'm liking the PlayStation Move's form factor and tech, and I'm more excited for this solution than Microsoft's Natal. That could change in an instant if and when Microsoft shows off more of its Xbox motion control in the next couple of months.

But the price and the lack of any real "wow" games on display here at Sony's press event sort of diminishes its impact.

However, ignoring pricing, the PlayStation Move is clearly a stronger solution than Nintendo's Wii remote, nunchuk, and Wii MotionPlus combination, and it definitely has more potential because of this more sensitive and more capable tech.

I'm just hoping for more than just Wii-like experiences in HD, and other than the augmented reality stuff in Move Party, that's all we're getting with PlayStation Move. So far, anyway.

http://wii.ign.com/articles/107/1076600p1.html

[manasecret]

I gotta agree with Xantar, BaB, and history and say it's an add-on peripheral and therefore will fail. I think things will be far more interesting in the next generation of consoles, which I predict will begin in 2012. I think it will be akin to the graphics going from the PSX/N64 era to the PS2/Xbox/GCN era, with motion controls being perfected by all consoles. Who will dominate then is the real question. Wii has already "won" this generation.

As far as whether _I_ will buy it, as soon as the PS3 Move has good games, I will be interested. I like shiny graphics as much as the rest of us, but I couldn't give two shits if the games are terrible. As of now, the impressions are that the games (with the possible exception of Move Party) don't live up to Wii standards of good motion games.

[Xantar]

There is the Wii. Only a gaming system. Has motion control games. 150 dollars.
There is the PS3. Game system, dvd/cd/blu ray player, photo/music video sharer, HD capable from purchase, and has motion control games. 250 dollars.
There is the 360. Game system, dvd/cd player, music storage device, HD capable from purchase, largest online network for gaming, and has motion control games. 250 dollars.

Which gives the best overall value?

I'm not talking about now, which is what you need to understand.
I even went out of my way to say in a post that "This will force Nintendo in the future to actually make a competitive machine" - considering Sony and Microsoft will have taken everything away from the Wii that made it unique.

This makes absolutely no sense. If you're not talking about "now," then when the hell are you talking about? Sony and Microsoft are releasing Move and Natal this year because they want it to sell well this year. It's not because they are trying to future-proof their consoles against Nintendo's next console. Yes, Nintendo is probably going to release a console with HD capability next time. And it will probably have improved motion control. I'm pretty sure they were going to do that anyway.

The only reasonable reading I can give you is that you think Sony and Microsoft are test driving motion control technologies so that they can use them in the PS4 and the Xbox 4Pi. But that would be stupid. Developing this kind of technology costs money, and when Move and Natal fail, Sony and Microsoft will be entering the next generation with a reputation for producing a copycat gimmick that didn't catch on. Just think of what IGN is going to say when the PS4 launches with a motion controller built in: "Sony has motion control in their machine. Let's hope it does better than the Move did."

Sony and Microsoft want their motion control devices to succeed this year. And the problem is they won't, no matter how neat-o you think they are.

[Angrist]

Ok this is the first time I had time to watch the 'Move-ies.'
What can I say? The technology looks better than the Wii's. Which shouldn't be surprising with a 4 year's difference.

The software though... bleh. Shovelware BUT WITH GRAPHICS THIS TIME!!

I don't think these expansions will catch on. The Wii doesn't sell because of motion controls anymore, it sells because of its reputation. People won't want a copy-cat, they want the real deal. They want Miis, Wii Sports, white plastic.

[Xantar]

Ok fine, here it is for the third time.

Sony Move is an add-on peripheral.

In all the history of videogames, an add-on has never caught on.

As you would have figured out if you had read my past posts. Manasecret got it. Angrist got it. Justin got it. Why can't you?

[Typhoid]

Originally Posted by Xantar

Ok fine, here it is for the third time.

Sony Move is an add-on peripheral.

In all the history of videogames, an add-on has never caught on.

As you would have figured out if you had read my past posts. Manasecret got it. Angrist got it. Justin got it. Why can't you?

If I recall Playstation was spawned as an add-on of the SNES.
I wonder how that company is doing now.


My point is this:

Just because one hasn't caught on in the past, doesn't mean it will never happen.
Will it happen now? I don't know. I'm not clairvoyant. And frankly I have no stake in the company so I don't care.

What I've been saying is this is taking away the single thing that made the Wii unique. Aside from titles of Mario and Zelda and various "____ Wii" games, after the SMC and Natal are released, Nintendo will be an inferior machine.

Will it still sell? Of course it will.

But Sony and Microsoft have added 2 more options on the market, despite being add-ons.
Before if you wanted to get your kid some motion control thing, you'd HAVE to get the Wii, even if your kid somehow has a PS3 and a 360.

So instead of getting an entirely new system, they can just get one of the add-ons.

You'd (general, not specific you) be insane to think that Sony won't make Wii-esque games to ride the coattails of the popularity of casual gaming, which then just blurs the lines a little more.

Will it catch on with a flaming heat never seen before? Of course not.
But will the motion controller and Natal completely fall by the wayside? Fuck no, that's the 'wave of the future' as it is.

If anything all this does is make the market more competative, and force companies to actually make good games that use motion control because there is more than 1 option, so it's not a sure-fire sell anymore.

[Xantar]

Originally Posted by BreakABone

As a note, can we calm down on the personal insults. Yes, I'm guilty of it as well, but I guess what happens when people have somewhat of a passion of what talking about.

It's not my fault that Typhoid is incapable of reading and understanding past posts in this thread. If you have a problem with my pointing that out, ban me.

Anyway, once again, Typhoid misses the point, refuses to provide any evidence or a semblance of an argument, and then goes off on a tangent.

I rest my case.

[Typhoid]

Originally Posted by Xantar

It's not my fault that Typhoid is incapable of reading and understanding past posts in this thread. If you have a problem with my pointing that out, ban me.

Anyway, once again, Typhoid misses the point, refuses to provide any evidence or a semblance of an argument, and then goes off on a tangent.

I rest my case.

Back to the insults, eh?
Well at least you lasted a solid 1 post.
I'm proud of you.

.....How is stating my point a tangent?

That's been my point the entire time.
My point has never been the success, nor the failure.

[Typhoid]

Sorry Xantar, I concede.
You know far more about Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft than I - a mere pleb can ever hope to imagine.

How I manage to type words when I'm randomly smacking the keyboard with my fists amazes even I.

Hell, I'm even amazed I remember to breathe with such an inferior intellect and such a smaller penis than a man as great as you.


It's the internet. Get over yourself.
Reply if your massive throbbing cock feels the need - but I won't read it.
And in lieu of 'abusing my moderator powers', I'm not locking the thread - since I know you probably won't be able to resist posting back to this despite the fact I'm not going to read it.

[Xantar]

Originally Posted by Typhoid

Back to the insults, eh?


That's been my point the entire time.
My point has never been the success, nor the failure.

Then you never had any point to make to me. The only point I was trying to make -- the ONLY one -- was this

Originally Posted by Xantar

So...we can all agree Sony Move is going to fail, right? Is anybody going to bother actually arguing my point?

That's it. Whatever argument you have going on with BAB or anybody else is tangential because the only thing I was trying to say was that from the point of view of sales, business or any other standard you choose, Move is going to fail. It's not going to sell. Most people are not going to buy it. I'm sorry you decided to read way more into it than was actually right there on the screen, but that wasn't my problem.

[TheGame]

Originally Posted by Xantar

Tell you what, though: you tell me what your standard is for Move to be considered a success or a failure. I guarantee Move will not meet it. You can save this post and come back to it a year from now if you like.

I look at the move like the original Xbox.. Xbox got out sold 5:1 by Ps2, and did not turn a profit. But I still consider it a sucsess. Why? Because it did what M$ wanted it to do, get their foot in the door of the gaming industry, and kept enough support to hold the system up for 4 years.

The Ps360 motion controls are the same way. It's a gamble. I'm sure Microsoft and Sony are well versed in the history of the gaming industry, and they know that these add-ons are not going to become something that's essential for the system..

With that said, for me there's a LOT of grey area as far as sucsess and failure.

I'd say if the motion controls sell less then 2 million, then it's a failure without question. Anything more, then it's sucsess will be defined by how much the controls are supported and how long, and if there's some type of swing in month to month sales of Ps360s vs Wii. I think having the option of the controls could impact sales more then the unit will sell itself.

So I'm in the same boat if you don't think these motion controls will be the next big thing.. but I do think they could swing some sales, and that there's a good chance that Sony and Microsoft set realistic expectations for these units.

[manasecret]

There are two ways to succeed or fail here -- 1. In sales/profitibility, and 2. What Game touched on, future success, or PS4 and Xbox720 success.

In terms of sales/profitability, I think almost everyone agrees that they will fail miserably. Off the top of my head, I would guess 2-4 million sold each over the next 2-3 years.

But in terms of future success, I think releasing the Move and Natal now are probably the best decision. Sony and MS can get their feet wet with an add-on that will last a couple years at most, and work out any kinks before they release an entire new system that they will have to work with for some 10 years. As they say, every failure is a success in some way, since at the very least you have learned lessons along the way that will help you in the future.

[BreakABone]

Originally Posted by manasecret

There are two ways to succeed or fail here -- 1. In sales/profitibility, and 2. What Game touched on, future success, or PS4 and Xbox720 success.

In terms of sales/profitability, I think almost everyone agrees that they will fail miserably. Off the top of my head, I would guess 2-4 million sold each over the next 2-3 years.

But in terms of future success, I think releasing the Move and Natal now are probably the best decision. Sony and MS can get their feet wet with an add-on that will last a couple years at most, and work out any kinks before they release an entire new system that they will have to work with for some 10 years. As they say, every failure is a success in some way, since at the very least you have learned lessons along the way that will help you in the future.

I guess I'll play Devil's Advocate here since this isn't a pro/anti-Nintendo thread

But on the flip side, which few people are looking at I guess, and it may just be a minor point, but Sony and Microsoft can both find that maybe motion controls don't work for them.

I mean motion controls has a bad rep as it is from all the shovelware on the Wii, and if they find that many 3rd parties won't support it or they may not sell well, it could be like the EyeToy from last gen where its out there, but its really low key and under the table.

Again, its a minor thought, but could happen.

On a somewhat happier note,



I love these PS3 commercials so much.

[thatmariolover]

Well, it's not just the fact that it's a peripheral that will make it more difficult. It's the fact that it's an expensive perpipheral. The last blurb I read put the starter kit at $100.

I personally doubt Sony can market it, but I've seen stranger things happen.

[Typhoid]

Originally Posted by thatmariolover

Well, it's not just the fact that it's a peripheral that will make it more difficult. It's the fact that it's an expensive perpipheral. The last blurb I read put the starter kit at $100.

I personally doubt Sony can market it, but I've seen stranger things happen.

That's launch price though.
Everything is more expensive at launch...typically.
However, I don't find $100 too bad. When it comes out, I'll buy it.
A Wii is what, 130 bucks? I bought that and I never play it.
Considering games are 65-80 bucks these days, 100 isn't really a huge deal.


The reason I like the move, as I've been talking to Bab about; is that it looks really good. Game-wise. There is potential for really visually pleasing FPS', that are fun at the same time where you're not just twiddling your thumbs.
And it also has potential for more casual games that don't look like they're intended for 4 year olds.

Lots of families have a PS3 already because of the built in blu-ray, and I don't think it's a stretch to think that they'd spend an extra 100 bucks to entertain their 6-10 year old kids. Same as I don't think it's a stretch that a college kid who miraculously has 'extra' money will buy it for drinking games, or playing FPS'.

It won't sell like wildfire, and it won't change the industry.
But it will be as fun as the wii, and look good while doing it.