President Obama Healthcare Speech

[Bond]

Not entirely surprising, considering O'Reilly's background. He is a very independent traditionalist.

[TheGame]

So, I'm bored with the forum being dead so I'm gonna toss in another poll here... As my first poll showed, 77% of Americans on AVERAGE between polls would prefer that there were a choice between private run health insurance and government ran insurance.

So what do doctors think about this?

When given a three-way choice among private plans that use tax credits or subsidies to help the poor buy private insurance; a new public health insurance plan such as Medicare; or a mix of the two; 63 percent of doctors supported a mix, 27 percent said they only wanted private options, and just 10 percent said they exclusively wanted public options.

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNe...58F3VJ20090916
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_286352.html

63% for a public healthcare option alongside private, and 73% of doctors against having private insurance companies exclusively. From these polls, its safe to say that either the center is in favor of a public option, or there's bipartisan support by the people for this reform.

So why are our leaders backpeddaling on the idea? Once again, I think it comes down to who pays them.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by TheGame

So, I'm bored with the forum being dead so I'm gonna toss in another poll here... As my first poll showed, 77% of Americans on AVERAGE between polls would prefer that there were a choice between private run health insurance and government ran insurance.

So what do doctors think about this?



http://www.reuters.com/article/topNe...58F3VJ20090916
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_286352.html

63% for a public healthcare option alongside private, and 73% of doctors against having private insurance companies exclusively. From these polls, its safe to say that either the center is in favor of a public option, or there's bipartisan support by the people for this reform.

So why are our leaders backpeddaling on the idea? Once again, I think it comes down to who pays them.

Game, my answer to this poll is the exact same to the answer to the poll of average citizens...

Keep in mind those numbers reflect whether or not people favor a public option, not necessarily any public option plan we've seen or that has been presented. These polls examine people's openness to the idea/concept, not the reality.

IMO the current climate reflects people's reaction to practical application of that idea/concept.

In fact, to further illustrate tis point, another recent poll showed 56% being against THIS current plan (if you can really call it one).

Fifty-six percent (56%) of voters nationwide now oppose the health care reform proposed by President Obama and congressional Democrats. That’s the highest level of opposition yet measured and includes 44% who are Strongly Opposed.

Just 43% now favor the proposal, including 24% who Strongly Favor it.

But the overall picture remains one of stability. While the numbers have bounced a bit following nationally televised appearances by the president to promote the plan, opposition has generally stayed above 50% since early July. Support has been in the low to mid 40s...

...While many credit or blame the town hall protests for building opposition to the plan, it appears they were simply a reflection of public opinion rather than a creator of it. This sense is confirmed by the fact that Obama’s approval ratings fell more in June and July before stabilizing in August.

One thing that did change during the month of August is that public perception of the protesters improved. after the initial shock wore off. Most voters came to believe that the purpose of the town hall meetings was for members of Congress to listen rather than speak.

I hope that answers your question.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ...th_care_reform

[TheGame]

Of course people are against THIS current plan, because this one doesn't include the public option. So its not relevant to the discussion on if people are in favor or against the public option. I've already said on more then one occasion that the reason his approval ratings are dropping is because he's backing away from the public option. His base is going to disaprove of his actions and click that they're against it on all those polls until he strongly backs it.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by TheGame

Of course people are against THIS current plan, because this one doesn't include the public option. So its not relevant to the discussion on if people are in favor or against the public option. I've already said on more then one occasion that the reason his approval ratings are dropping is because he's backing away from the public option. His base is going to disaprove of his actions and click that they're against it on all those polls until he strongly backs it.

Game, the polls have reflected these numbers since July, and the article I cited backs that up. Your gamesmanship when it comes to debate is not effective nor appreciated. It's what makes having any kind of respectful debate with you impossible at times.

At this point, I have to assume you are just willfully ignorant and refuse to acknowledge any reality outside of your worldview when it comes to health-care. Create whatever fiction you like, but I'll not continue to give you opportunities to spread them.

Babble to yourself if you like. I'm no longer listening.

[TheGame]

Yet you aren't argueing anything I said, and have no point.

When did the Dems start bending over for the GOP? I'm pretty sure that started earlier then July. Dems have been reaching out to the republicans for months now, just to never get one voice of support. And in your own mind you want to make it seem like the democrats were not playing ball with the republicans whatsoever.

Every legitamate poll made in the last year showed that american people and doctors are in favor of the idea of having both public and private health insurance. (Including that little poll that happend in 2008) The reason that less and less people are supporting the "reform" now is because dems have been watering down healthcare for months to try and appeal to republicans (or using the republicans as an excuse to water it down and appeal to the people who pay them). That's just the reality of the situation.

Babble to yourself if you like. I'm no longer listening.

You never were listening, which is why we can't really have a debate. You spent a long time calling me out on racism, and I gave you a reply that took an objective look at the situation.. but you'd rather chose ignorance and not take into account anything that doesn't fit your own view.

[Bond]

The Senate Finance Committee rejected the public option today.

[magus113]

Am I surprised? No.

Am I pissed? You bet your ass.

[KillerGremlin]

A disappointing moral loss?

I haven't had time to follow this, but where will it go from here?

[TheGame]

I'm not suprised either. There needs to be reform to campaign financing before the public option would ever get passed. I'd be very shocked if it won out in the end.

Originally Posted by KillerGremlin

A disappointing moral loss?

I haven't had time to follow this, but where will it go from here?

Still a lot of discussing to be done. They're looking into ways to extend coverage and lower costs.. however, it looks like if there's no public option.. they're going to extend coverage and do nothing about costs.

[Professor S]

They couldn't convince the American people that their version of a government run healthcare would work, and then they couldn't even backdoor it in committee with a large majority (never mind the bill wouldn't pass if the amendment was attached).

Meanwhile, the progressive caucus is looking to destroy any bill that doesn't have government run healthcare included, and moderate democrats won't vote for any bill with government healthcare included.

Wow, with all this in-fighting you'd think they were the Republican party... and like with social security reform the likelihood is nothing will get accomplished if the current climate persists.

[TheGame]

They couldn't convince the American people that their version of a government run healthcare would work

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/...n5098517.shtml

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=112818960

We can speculate about if people are against how the healthcare change is being handled now because of the public option, or because it won't include the public option all day. But the fact of the matter is 'the people' and 'the doctors' want a public option for health insurance. Poll after poll after poll shows this.

If the public option doesn't pass, its not because the people didn't want it, its because the influences in washington didn't want it.

[magus113]

Everyone's got the hands in the pot up on Capitol Hill and it's really disappointing to see people more concerned about profits over the people.

It really is a sad state of affairs. I have medical conditions that REQUIRE health insurance, so now I HAVE to find a job that will have health insurance and benefits that will be able to cover the costs, or at least cover them well enough.

Personally I don't see this happening, but all I know is that as soon as I'm 23 I'm gonna be in big trouble. I was SERIOUSLY hoping this would happen.

So here's to my health insurance co.,Cigna. You greedy bastards.

[Bond]

The reality is that the Democrats have a 60 seat majority in the Senate. 60 seats! They should be able to ram through any kind of legislation they please through multiple different tactics, but they couldn't pass the public option.

Either the party is incompetent, or it is simply not its will to pass the public option. I would side with the latter.

The unfortunate thing is meaningful reform may not be passed.

[TheGame]

Originally Posted by Bond

The reality is that the Democrats have a 60 seat majority in the Senate. 60 seats! They should be able to ram through any kind of legislation they please through multiple different tactics, but they couldn't pass the public option.

It boils down to them not wanting to fight against companies who pay them. That's why there's a civil war in the democratic party right now... Its good politics that the american people want vs good campaign donations. And as long as the republican party keeps looking and acting like morons in this situation, they're not scared of losing votes to them.. However, losing campaign contributions by going against private insurers is a bigger threat.