The Lost City

[Professor S]

I just saw this movie and it really affected me. Its about one man's experience living in pre, during and post revolution Cuba and his eventual emmigration to the US. Its essentially one man's love letter to his home country and his sorrow in seeing it ripped from him and those he loves, and it made me appreciate my own country more.

Freedom is definitely not a right... it is a privelege that I think we all could spend more time appreciating in between bitching and moaning about how unfair the world is, regardless of what nation you call home.


http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0343996/

[BlueFire]

Haven't seen it but I'm sure my mom would love to see it. Does it make Cuba look like shit under Batista's rule, or is Cuba a happy-go-lucky island until Castro takes over?

[Typhoid]

I want to see this, it sounds interesting.
Although I disagree with your "Freedom isn't a right" statement.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Typhoid

I want to see this, it sounds interesting.
Although I disagree with your "Freedom isn't a right" statement.

Its a right given to you by your government, and if your government disappears, you may no longer have that right, just like the Cubans had that right taken away.

BlueFire, the movie is not kind to Batista and they show how Batista's corruption and love of gangsters like Meyer Lansky led to Cuba's downfall, but its very objective in comparing the differences in between basically bad traded for far worse. No one liked Batista, but to compare his regime to Casto's is like comparing a wet willy to a public hanging. Freedom literally disappeared under Castro, for everyone, not just the rich. Two million Cuban refugees can't be wrong.

What I love is that they show Che for the murderous, power-mad piece of shit he was and they show how Castro lied to his own people, promising a return to the constitution Batista trashed to gain support for the war, and instead installed a Stalinesque totalitatrian regime.

In the end, its a personal story of a musician who loved his country and saw it ripped from underneath him through corruption and deceitful revolution.

[Professor S]

Here is a nice article about Che and the cult that seems to follow him:

http://www.slate.com/id/2107100/

The man was a scumbag.

[DeathsHand]

Originally Posted by Professor S

and the cult that seems to follow him

High school seniors, college students, and graffiti artists?

[GameMaster]

[Typhoid]

Originally Posted by Professor S

Its a right given to you by your government, and if your government disappears, you may no longer have that right, just like the Cubans had that right taken away.

Well, in a sense that's assuming that the government selects what's right for the people, and the people don't select which government is right.

Not like I'm trying to turn this into a governmental debate, but freedom isn't a gift. Freedom is a right. We're all free by birth. But depending on where you live in the world, that birthright - of freedom - is restricted.

[Dylflon]

Che had the right idea until the violence part.

You see, that's where it all went wrong.

[DeathsHand]

Originally Posted by Typhoid

but freedom isn't a gift. Freedom is a right. We're all free by birth. But depending on where you live in the world, that birthright - of freedom - is restricted.

In it's most natural state (i.e. the kind that, for the most part, no longer exists), freedom is a birthright.
And some things in their natural state have the most vivid color.

But in this day and age where every square inch of inhabitable land is (at least technically) under the control of a government of one of many different shapes and sizes, you're now born into a system in which it has already been decided to what extent you shall enjoy your freedom.
And, of course, the freedom we enjoy here in The United States of America (or Canadian America) is not truly freedom either.

I mean sure USA is all about the land of the free, but I'm pretty sure we were kinda sorta also about that back in the day when someone decided that them dern negros don't fully apply...

And sometime in the future I'm sure I'll be able to use that same example in reference to gays, potheads and astronauts.
But hey.
America: Freer than most.

Bottom Line: That particular issue of semantics is irrelevant.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Dylflon

Che had the right idea until the violence part.

You see, that's where it all went wrong.

The violence wasn't the disease, it was a symptom. The disease was hardline communism where only what benefit's the state is allowed to exist, and will the will of the people is decided by the few, because free election cannot be trusted to such peons. It's where all land is stripped from its owners, free speech is squashed because it promotes dissent and everything that is for the good of the people truly onlu benefits a new ruling oligarchy that replaced the old.

Then again, your probably just baiting me with comments like that.

On a side note they do examine the brutal tactics of Batista as well, incuding his interrogation/torture cells.

[BlueFire]

a note on Che Guevara...

There are two extreme views on Che Guevara.. some people believe he was one of the most influential people of the century and a symbol of revolution.. the view taken by all those kids who wear t-shirts with his face on it.

and the other view is that he is a ruthless murderer, blah blah. This is the view taken by almost all Cuban exiles and Cuban Americans... (i.e., my mom, lol)

My view?
I kinda agree with Uva de Aragón (some Cuban scholar lady)... I couldn't find the exact quote, but she basically says that we won't be able to pass judgement on Che for a while, because the truth itself is still cloudy.


and now I'm sleepy. good night

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by BLueFire

a note on Che Guevara...

There are two extreme views on Che Guevara.. some people believe he was one of the most influential people of the century and a symbol of revolution.. the view taken by all those kids who wear t-shirts with his face on it.

and the other view is that he is a ruthless murderer, blah blah. This is the view taken by almost all Cuban exiles and Cuban Americans... (i.e., my mom, lol)

My view?
I kinda agree with Uva de Aragón (some Cuban scholar lady)... I couldn't find the exact quote, but she basically says that we won't be able to pass judgement on Che for a while, because the truth itself is still cloudy.


and now I'm sleepy. good night

I'll trust the first hand accounts of the exiles who witnessed his brutality.

Is he inlfuential a symbol of revolution? Yes, but none of that has anything to do with hios actions, just the perception of those with leftist sympathies that have fallen for dogma created by Cuba itself.

Read the accounts of people who were there and ran for their lives, as that is about as close to truth as we're lucky to get from a government that to this day prohibits free speech and bans the internet.