Why not vote Bush?

[Crash]

The best part about liberalism is the fact that the media has the "less informed" community convinced they shouldn't vote for Bush, but they dont know why. Most say "I'll just vote for whoever is not Bush"

why?

"well, bush lies and the economy is bad"

we've had one of the best economies in 20 years, millions of jobs have just been created.

"well, he lied about the WMD"

kerry said we needed to go after Saddam and stop his WMD, so kerry thought the same thing, probably would have done the same thing if had to choose.

so, lets start with that basis, then choose who you'd vote for. dont vote kerry just because you dont like bush, that's not the way to do it. know your facts and make a smart choice. I personally will vote Bush because it's the last person the terrorists want to see in office.

[Jonbo298]

I'm voting Kerry because I have never liked Bush. I couldn't vote in the 2000 election but I already knew if I could, Gore would've been my choice.

And in '04, now that I can vote, I'm going for Kerry because I can't stand Bush. He's running the country's debt deeper because we had to go after Sadaam using basically only our money. I'm not trying to say Sadaam is good or anything, but I hate the fact that Bush basically said "F*ck you UN, we're going alone" and then afterwards expects countries to just show their undying support to us.

I don't like people who think War is everything. Unless its of absolute importance, there's no need for it.

And if Kerry would've gone alone in the war, I wouldn't vote for him (I think what I've said above says enough)

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Crash

The best part about liberalism is the fact that the media has the "less informed" community convinced they shouldn't vote for Bush, but they dont know why. Most say "I'll just vote for whoever is not Bush"

why?

"well, bush lies and the economy is bad"

we've had one of the best economies in 20 years, millions of jobs have just been created.

It is true that the economy is good and that about 300,000 (not millions) jobs have been created under Bush's plans for economic recovery after the bottom fell out of the "Tech Bubble". The problem comes with a couple of areas: 1)The economy is not as good as it was under Clinton, which doesn't really mean anything since it was a false economy based on inflated stocks and had little to do with Clinton's presidency, but it is viewed that Bush ruined the economy since it dropped under his watch.

I will also agree that Bush has done a good job with creating better paying jobs, unlike what the democrats have been saying.

http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=208

The real numbers say that under his administration the US has created better paying jobs and not just minimum wage ones, like Kerry has been saying.

"well, he lied about the WMD"

kerry said we needed to go after Saddam and stop his WMD, so kerry thought the same thing, probably would have done the same thing if had to choose.

It goes a lot deeper than that. The UN thought that he had them, Clinton thought that he had them and pretty much everyone thought that he had them. The argument about going to war was never about whther or not he had them, but how to go about enforcing the regulations and whether violence was the appropriate course. Why did no one doubt that he had them? In 1998 the UN found 10,000 pounds of chemical and biological weapons in Iraq, but they were not loaded into delivery systems so Iraq did not technically violate the UN regulations. The UN changed the regulations, Iraq shut down inspections by the UN, and then claimed that they destroyed the weapons without providing any proof. I could go on, but sufficed to say, Iraq had them and led the world to believe that still had them with the charade he led the UN down before the war. The question is, where are these weapons now if they're not in Iraq?

I personally will vote Bush because it's the last person the terrorists want to see in office.

Believe it or not thats actually a string selling point for me. The fact that the terrorists want Kerry to win is more of a sign I should vote Bush than anything, but I still have my reservations about Bush:

1) Trampling of the 1st amendment. His abuse of Howard Stern is unconsionable (sp?). Its not only that he made up new standards for broadcasting without telling anyone, but that it seems like these standards are selectively enforced against those that speak out against him. This smacks of fascism.

2) Spending. Since when do Republicans spend like money is going out of style??? Good lord, the budget is enormous.

3) Education. No Child Left Behind is a lot like communism in that it sounds great on paper, but no one figured out the correct way to implement it without screwing up the schools completely. This isn't just against Bush, though, as it was a bipartisan bill, with the other big proponent being Ted Kennedy. Why anyone would pass anything that fat drunken murderer supports is beyond me.

[Neo]

Let's see...

Bush is an idiot, possibly legally retarded.

He lied about WMD, those like Kerry who agreed we should go after Saddam on the basis of WMD were being fed false information from the aforementioned idiot.

The conservatives want to control your personal life by imposing their own misguided notions of morality.

The voting fraud in Florida still pisses me off.

Bush ran several companies into the ground.

The only reason he got into a good school was because of his name.

Fahrenheit 9/11.

He ignored the ballistic missile treaty.

He lets corporations run free, allowing them to break or easily work around environmental laws.

The christian right.

He has imposed restrictions on the sharing of information within the scientific community, retarding progress.

His administration threatened to shelf certain scientific reports if they did not remove results which challenged policy.

He wasn't legitimately elected. Republican-controlled Florida supreme court ignored prior precedent in stopping the recount.

[Dylflon]

I like Kerry. Pretty much every non American in the entire world wants to see Kerry in the White House. That says something.

The rest of the world sees Bush differently than Americans. The reason we view him differently is because he actually scares us. He makes us nervous. As Americans are afraid of terror attacks, everyone else is nervous that he'll invade places or lead us into a world war. It isn't likely that he would but it's not impossible.

Things he's done to scare me:

1) Backed out of the ballistic missile treaty.
2) Flipped off the U.N.
3) Endorsed shoddy information as good work and then fed it to the public.
4) He has strong ties with the Saudi Royal family.
5) Declared a war on terror giving him the grounds to attack any country that has terrorists and possibly even some that don't. He could easily make up terror threats.
6) Once accused Canada of housing terrorists.
7) Tried to ban Michael Moore's book "Stupid White Men". You can't ban literature. That screams Nazi book burning to me.
8) Completely stomped on the first amendment.
9) Endorsed the Patriot Act which could potentially eliminate privacy, bringing America much closer to a world not unlike the one in the book "1984".
10) The fact that he's barely literate and runs the country with the biggest military in the entire world.

[Jonbo298]

Oh yeah, and I'm not voting for Bush because he wants a constitutional amendment banning same sex marriages. That pisses me off like you wouldn't believe because this is seriously becoming the 1960's/70's all over again except with one variation. I'm not gay but I feel everyone is treated equal. It's said in the constitution we are but yet Republicans think they can ban it because its "immoral". Leave it to the states to decide.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong but he's completely against abortion. I agree with the partial abortion ban but I don't want a full abortion ban. the first 3 months are fine becuase its the mother's child, NOT THE GOVERNMENTS CHILD.

And another reason. He doesn't want stem cell research. That pisses me off just as much as the same sex ban. Stem cell research is gonna bring promising things in the future but when you have an asshole who wants to block research that could one day lead to a cure for many diseases/forms of cancer, thats when I draw the line.

And I also agree that the Patriot Act is making the US look more and more like 1984. Bush took advantage of 9/11 by rushing this bill through congress within months after 9/11 which at that time all but one (black female I believe..can't remember name) voted for it without even reading the bill completely (thats my opinion but its basically true). If they took the time to read it, they would've said no to quite a few things in it but back then they were brainwashed, IMO.

[Professor S]

Neo, I think if you tried a little harder you could come up with even more simplistic arguments against Bush. Better luck next time.

Originally Posted by Dylflon

I like Kerry. Pretty much every non American in the entire world wants to see Kerry in the White House. That says something.

We love to generalize, don't we?

The rest of the world sees Bush differently than Americans. The reason we view him differently is because he actually scares us. He makes us nervous. As Americans are afraid of terror attacks, everyone else is nervous that he'll invade places or lead us into a world war. It isn't likely that he would but it's not impossible.

That I can see and its a valid point, even if a little paranoid.

Things he's done to scare me:

1) Backed out of the ballistic missile treaty.

I don't know the details of this, I'll look it up though.

2) Flipped off the U.N.

And rightfully so. The UN is still under investigation for abuse of the Iraqi oil for food program and IMO is basically an organization of former world powers that has abused its position over the last 15 years to keep influence (and profits) and has used America as its 800 pound gorilla for too long.

3) Endorsed shoddy information as good work and then fed it to the public.

Hindsight is 20/20. See my arguments in my first post.

4) He has strong ties with the Saudi Royal family.

Which has had absolutely no proven affect on his administration beyond the misleading ramblings of Michael Moore. He went against the Saudi's in going into Iraq and the whole "flights out of the country" thing has already been debunked by every major news source in the world.

5) Declared a war on terror giving him the grounds to attack any country that has terrorists and possibly even some that don't. He could easily make up terror threats.

This is true, but yet again very far fetched. I do not agree with Bush's seeming abuse of the terror alert system to take attention away from democratic poltical news, but I don't see any evidence of Bush going into any country he sees fit without reason, and yes there was plenty of reason to go into Iraq and Afghanistan.

6) Once accused Canada of housing terrorists.

I doubt he accused the Canadian government of openly harboring terrorists. Having terrorists living on your soil and having a government supporting them are two different things. If you believe Bush openly accused the government of Canada of housing terrorists, please provide a link.

7) Tried to ban Michael Moore's book "Stupid White Men". You can't ban literature. That screams Nazi book burning to me.

I am the last one to agree with Bush's policies regarding the first amedment, but I have heard nothing of this, please provide a link.

8) Completely stomped on the first amendment.

I agree completely and thats enough grounds not to vote for him.

9) Endorsed the Patriot Act which could potentially eliminate privacy, bringing America much closer to a world not unlike the one in the book "1984".

I find the left's attack of the Patriot Act to be very humorous. It does not give the government to right to just violate peoples rights and search whatever they like. They still need just cause and/or and warrant, just like before the Patriot Act.

10) The fact that he's barely literate and runs the country with the biggest military in the entire world.

Ha ha ha... That argument has no validity and gets less funny the 10,000th time I've heard it. Find a new joke that doesn't take credibility away from your argument by dipping into sophmoric humor.

[Seth]

Neo and Dylflon pretty much summed up my views.

How can people reelect Bush after what he did in Florida? I can't believe it.

[Jonbo298]

Yes, the Patriot Act's attack by people is so humourous that over 200 cities (correct me if I'm wrong but thats what I remembered from the last time I head) have banned it from being used in their city

[Typhoid]

I dont think he (Bush) was even legally elected, wasnt he appointed?


Like Dylflon, Bush scares me too, his "Were America, so we can do what we want" attitude is a little threatening.

I will look for a link to it, but i remember him accusing Canada of housing terrorists.

He said he wouldnt raise minimum wage in the US. Ever. He opposes it. Kerry on the other hand said by the year 2007 ( i think) minimum wage will be somewhere around $8.

Plus he tries to change our laws. Back when Cretien was PM, he was ( as the media said) trying to "influence" more American law changes. I dont exactly know what the things he was trying to change are though.

Bush just does seem a little too stupid to be president, either he will lead the world to a world war, or he will end up invadeing a country that has no right to be invaded, thus, also leading to a world war.

And wait, who has all the WMD? America does. Why not disarm them, im more scared of the American WMD than the middle east WMD. Because i know if it comes down to it, Bush would use them.

[Jason1]

I dislike Bush greatly. Why keep him in office? He hasnt really dont anything good while hes been here, its just been bad times all around. The war in Iraq was a mistake, gas prices suck, and Bush speaks better spanish than he does english. Why not give someone else a shot? Nuff said, IMO.

[Dylflon]

We love to generalize, don't we?

Yeah. It does seem that most non americans aren't pro bush though.


I found something for you on the ballistic missile treaty.

http://www.missilethreat.com/news/20011213095800.html

The website has everything you'd want to know about the treaty and other missile related things.


And about the Saudis, my problem with it is that the Saudi Royals are even more shady than Saddam and have killed many of their own people and nobody is even trying to do anything about it. I'll look for sources later.



And as for the U.S. accusing Canada of harbouring terrorists, here's a link. I can't find the better one so this will have to do for now.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20040215.wterr0215/BNStory/National/

Can't find the Moore link. I'll look again later.

And as for the joke, I hear it's always good to end with a joke .

But you must admit, he isn't the brightest crayon in the box.

[Bond]

Originally Posted by Neo

Let's see...

Bush is an idiot, possibly legally retarded.

He went to Yale and Harvard.

He lied about WMD, those like Kerry who agreed we should go after Saddam on the basis of WMD were being fed false information from the aforementioned idiot.

They were being fed incorrect intelligence from the CIA.

The conservatives want to control your personal life by imposing their own misguided notions of morality.

Is that why conservatives favor smaller government and liberals favor larger government?

The voting fraud in Florida still pisses me off.

The Supreme Court decided that, you can go complain to them.

Bush ran several companies into the ground.

Which?

The only reason he got into a good school was because of his name.

That's part of the reason, but that's the same for any wealthy family.

Fahrenheit 9/11.

Is filled of distorted facts.

He ignored the ballistic missile treaty.

Has he fired any ballistic missiles? And would terrorists agree to the ballistic missile treaty?

He lets corporations run free, allowing them to break or easily work around environmental laws.

Do you have any examples of the environment being harmed?

The christian right.

Is as worse as the liberal left.

He has imposed restrictions on the sharing of information within the scientific community, retarding progress.

Which?

His administration threatened to shelf certain scientific reports if they did not remove results which challenged policy.

Which?

He wasn't legitimately elected. Republican-controlled Florida supreme court ignored prior precedent in stopping the recount.

Would you like to challenge our legal system?

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Maybe this forum was a bad idea...

[Jason1]

No, this forum isnt a bad Idea. This debate is good, makes for good discussion, just because your in the minority Bond doesnt mean this board wasnt a good idea.

[Bond]

I'm not in the minority, this is a 50/50 country.

Although this board is extremely liberal, you are getting a skewed view of average politics.