Don't believe in God? Why not?

[gekko]

Originally posted by sdtPikachu
"What to lose by reading the Bible: A little time
What to gain: Saving yourself from an eternity in Hell"

So the minute he reads it he'll be so overwhelend he'll eventaully see the "real truth"?

I've read it, I've tried it and I don't believe it, period.

Got a point there. I was raised Catholic. Never cared for religion, it's the most boring thing ever. But then i went to a Catholic high school. Think they would help me see the "light?" Ya, right. They pretty much drove me away. The more i learned, the worse the religion looked. The more I knew about the religion, the more I saw the flaws, and saw how much religion really isn't about God, but about society.

[BigJustinW]

Originally posted by sdtPikachu
"Have you read and comprehended most/all of the bible?"

I have read the bible. It's what convinced me to become an atheist.

I hate to blast your posts down to one line, but, this is all you needed to say.

If you read it, and don't believe it, your opinion is more respectable that DsH/Xantar... because you have a reason, period.

You (probably) know as much as you need to know about the Bible, and if you die and go to hell, you know exactly who's fault it is.... and that's a WHOLE lot better than not even giving it a chance.

But I'm sure you probably read it with an attitude of dis belief rather than learning, but who am I to say that... I don't know.

I'd rather see somebody try than not try

[BigJustinW]

Originally posted by gekko
I love how Christians think they are perfect, and everyone else is going to hell. What happened to a loving god who loved everyone?

He died when Adam and Eve sinned

Jesus is the savior, God is the creator. If you read the bible, you would know that he has killed plenty of people.

We should love him for his creations, but that doesn't mean that he loves every person on earth.

[sdtPikachu]

"But you see, that doesn't work for me."

Nor me neither.
I agree with Xantar; there are too many atheists and agnostics who read a bit of the bible and thought it was full of ****. They then apply this to all religion. This is the wrong way to go about it. If on the other hand you have no need for spirtual guidance like Xantar seems to be, why bother researching into somrthng you have no use for?

" The people I DO have beef with, are the people that accuse people of going to hell for eternity or whatever"

My beef too. IMO responsible for some of the worst atrocities ever perpetrated by so-called humanity.

"I believe in God. I do not believe he placed anything on this Earth. I believe in evolution, but something had to create that ball of energy."

So gekko does not believe the bible to be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Yet he believes in god. In fact gekko, I agree with a remarkable number of your points. I too believe the bible was primarily created as a method of control in creating a stable society (that's what all the moral bits are about). But the bible only perpetuated these ideas (which are part of basic human nature); it didn't invent them.

"Religion is a way to explain the unexplained."

Precisely why so many people find it so comforting.

"God forgives when you ask for forgiveness"

And why should I ask someone I don't believe in for forgiveness, when I have done nothing more wrong than not believe your beliefs? Why am I destined to spend the rest of time in unimaginable agony for thinking different to you? I have no need to ask for forgiveness; by your definition I am going to hell.

"At the same time, he refuses to read and understand the Bible."

You are making assumptions again. 1. he has no need to read the bible, and like he says has better things to be doing. 2. you are onto the "understanding" thing again, which since it's coming from you I expect means "believes in god". He doesn't feel any spiritual need to have to read it, therefore why should he? It's his own choice. Have you read On The Origin of Species? You could call that my bible. Yes, there's alot wrong with it, but I wonder how hard you have tried to understand his/our point of view from a different perspective. Still you persist in you r belief that we are lacking something human because we do not believe in god.

"think about it, why not give it a chance? If you don't believe in anything, and you are looking for an answer before you die (obviously). Why not read a source on what is claimed to happen after you die?"

I believe in the lack of a god. Therefore asking me to "try it out" would be like me asking you to pray to Allah or Buddha or any number o other deities you care to mention. This is grossly insensitive to his beliefs.

"It would be different if you guys gave it a chance."

I already have. Not happy with it one little bit.

"I think all people should look for an answer before they die"

I found mine a long time ago.

"It's your life... you can waiste it if you want, but I suggest you look for a direction."

Yet another offensive comment. I am not wsting my life, nor do I intend to. Once again, you presume that Xantar and I are beneath you because we do not follow your beliefs. How would you like it if I became ruler of the world and started saying that people like you are wasting their lives because of what they believe?
I already have more than enopugh direction at the moment thank-you. I don't see how a god could give me any more.

"I would still like an answer to my three-legged gerbil question. Humans are the worst creatures on this planet so why do they live after they die and other animals don't?"

The more I learn about most religions, the more I am convinced humans have worshipped nothing but themselves.

"If you are baptized, you get the chance, if not, you burn."

Well, what a surprise. Again (I've lost count) you say that you (presumably baptised) are going to live in heaven and that everyone else in the entire world who hasn't been is going to die and burn in hell. Did it never occur to you you might be wrong? Obviously not.

"Why don't you wake up early every Saturday, go into your back yard, hold a block of cheddar above your head and walk in a circle for an hour and a half? you don't know if it'll get you into heaven, but it could, therefore you should do it right?"

Crikey gekko, you should start a church.

"If you die and there is no afterlife, what difference would it have made what you did in your life?"

Cos it'd be nice to die knowing you actually made something of it, rather than regretting that you'd not done enough.

"If you die and there is an afterlife, what you do in your life makes a HUGE difference... right?"

To me, what I am doing in my life makes a huge difference to my death already. There are things I know I've done and can look back on with pride.

"Have you heard of life insurance??? You pay it in case somthing happens... if nothing happens, there wasn't a point to paying it, if everything happens, you were smart for paying for it.
So why not pay it?"

Because it is contrary to my beliefs. If an Islam guy came to you and said exactly the same thing, how would you feel? Why the hell should I be made to believe in something I don't believe in? I thought humans had the right to be free and decide tgheir own views. Obviously not in your opinion.

"What you are saying is, what if nothing happens?"

No. What I am saying is that I don't think anything will happen.

"What I'm saying is "What if somthing does?""

Then I'll go "hey ho, looks like they were all right and I was wrong. Looks like I'll just have to shuffle off to the eternal lake of fire then." Thing is I consider this so fantastically unlikely that it doesn't bother me.

[sdtPikachu]

Originally posted by BigJustinW


I hate to blast your posts down to one line, but, this is all you needed to say.

If you read it, and don't believe it, your opinion is more respectable that DsH/Xantar... because you have a reason, period.

You (probably) know as much as you need to know about the Bible, and if you die and go to hell, you know exactly who's fault it is.... and that's a WHOLE lot better than not even giving it a chance.

But I'm sure you probably read it with an attitude of dis belief rather than learning, but who am I to say that... I don't know.

I'd rather see somebody try than not try

Blimey, here we go again. You are assuming that I read it from a standpoint of disbelief. You are wrong. I read it to confirm my flagging beliefs that god really did exist. Yes, I looked to it for guidance. It pushed me away - I read it, and I understood it, and I couldn't believe I had been so stupid as to think that all that was true. I went to the bible in time of need, when my very beliefs were at stake, and it wasn't even able to stand up to the qeuries of a 12 year old.

Result? Goodbye god.

[sdtPikachu]

Originally posted by BigJustinW


He died when Adam and Eve sinned

Jesus is the savior, God is the creator. If you read the bible, you would know that he has killed plenty of people.

We should love him for his creations, but that doesn't mean that he loves every person on earth.

Including all the thousands of innocent (by my definition anyway) peopel who are senselessly killed every day? Either by war, or disease, or starvation?

Again you state your belief in the exisence of god as fact. Again you presume the arrogant position that you are more right than we are.

I'm sorry if I sound annoyed, it's just that I don't seem to be able to get through to you how offesnive some of your remarks are.

[gekko]

Originally posted by BigJustinW
You (probably) know as much as you need to know about the Bible, and if you die and go to hell, you know exactly who's fault it is.... and that's a WHOLE lot better than not even giving it a chance.

But I'm sure you probably read it with an attitude of dis belief rather than learning, but who am I to say that... I don't know.

I'd rather see somebody try than not try

So what if you spent your whole life trying to follow Jesus and you still go to hell? You believe that an afterlife exists, and you accept it as fact. But in reality, we don't know if it does, and we don't know if it doesn't.

For all you know, satan could've taken the form of Jesus, and you spent your whole life worshipping him, and now you'll be stuck in hell.

In all honesty, if you believe in the ways of Christianity, and you don't try, it might be a hard thing to imagine. It's like you're choosing a life in hell. But you need to remember some people don't believe, and to them, giving it a chance is a waste of time. It would be like me praying east everyday. I don't think it does any good, so why bother doing it?

And even if heaven and hell are real, and you believe in them, who says you need to be a certain religion, or read a certain book to get into heaven? Who says you can't just be a decent human being and not get into heaven? If you believe in God, but don't follow any organized religion, are you really going to hell? I mean, the 10 commandments are basically moral standards. You don't need to be Christian to honor your parents, not kill, steal, commit adultery. You're basically saying unless you belong to this social group, God will throw you in hell.

Look at all the extremists out there. A lot more than just muslim. Tons of Christian extremists. You really think they belong in heaven more than an athiest? I know people who don't care for religion, but live by much higher moral standards than these people who call themself Christians.

Personally, I think Christianity is screwed up. Even if I believe there is a God and an afterlife, should I spend my entire life as a part of something I feel is utter crap?

[BigJustinW]

Originally posted by sdtPikachu


Blimey, here we go again. You are assuming that I read it from a standpoint of disbelief.

But I'm sure you probably read it with an attitude of dis belief rather than learning, but who am I to say that... I don't know.

Again you state your belief in the exisence of god as fact. Again you presume the arrogant position that you are more right than we are.

I'm sorry if I sound annoyed, it's just that I don't seem to be able to get through to you how offesnive some of your remarks are.

What?

Offensive???

If someone asks me a question about God, I'm going to answer it as if it were fact... and there is nothing you can do about it.

If someone asks me a question about creation Etc... I will not state it as fact.

And what's with your long ass posts, 99% of the stuff you replied to wasn't even aimed at you.

[bobcat]

Is anybody going to argue my point?

PLease i want to be proven wrong, even if it means I don't look transparent on the forums.....

[DeathsHand]

"Pyramids, Easter Island, etc etc hasn't been proven by scientists (i don't think) but the pyramids and heads are there, and I don't think there is a believable explanation available"

I saw this show about the pyramids (Egyptian history is like one of the few kinds I actually find interesting ) where like... from the tools available at the time... or something... they constructed this little thing which had to do with efficiency and stuff I guess, and it made it so just like a few people could lift this big block enough to get some support under it and then lift it up one more "level"...

and there was also this theory that there was like a system of ramps or something wrapping up around the pyramids...

but I dunno fo sho...

As for the big heads... I dunno... what's so... god....like.... about them? heh heh...

As for Deja Vu... I've also had times where something had happened and I was like 100% sure that it had happened before...

I dunno... the human mind isn't perfect or nutin, it could just be a weird trick...

I've had some major deja vu in school where the teacher said something and I was like "Whoa, I coulda sworn we learned this like last year :eek:"

I watched a program on how the Easter Island heads were made...interesting it was.

I get Deja Vu to a point where I get confused between dreams and reality. Weird...in a fun yet annoying way.

[nWoCHRISnWo]

I don't believe in god because I (as well as pretty much everyone else I know) don't believe in stuff until it can be proven. People use the argument "Well, you can't prove there ISN'T a god, can you?" and I don't have to prove something wrong to know it's not real. Like I said hundreds of times before, if you're going to believe something that can't be scientifically proven just because it makes sense to you and your prayers have come true, then you'd have to try every single religion to see if you were right. Christians here, have you tried every single religion? I already know the answer is no, because it's probably impossible to try EVERY religion, so saying it makes sense is irrelevant when you haven't tried to see if other religions make sense.

Which brings me to my next point, there are so many religions, and they all thing they're right. I mean, seriously, just look at it this way, you're just one of the millions who has an opinion which is different that millions of others, and you think you're right? The odds aren't great, and if you haven't tried all the religions, you have no clue as to what one you think is right for you if you want to be religious.

Anyhoo, I think god is jusy a fairy tale that has made it big. I mean, just think about a person who controls everything anybody does and lives in a place we don't know of/can't see. until we're dead... LMAO, when you can find me proof that controlling millions of people is possible, maybe I'll believe it then.

And of course, there's the question who made god? Nobody has ever answered that in a way where it makes any sense at all, so nobody should have a reason to believe he's real.

And who's ever seen god? Has anyone ever taken a picture of god?

Annnnnnd isn't it convenient that almost everything that has to do with proving god is real happens after you die? Of course nobody can prove he's not real when you say we have to die first to make sure. People have been dead and then came alive before, so couldn't they tell us if they saw god?

But above all: If god wanted me to know he was real, he would do so. He created us all, right? So if he created us, why don't we automatically know he's real? He would have just made it an unarguable fact, like saying wood comes from trees, etc.

[manasecret]

Originally posted by BigJustinW
Jesus is the savior, God is the creator. If you read the bible, you would know that he has killed plenty of people.

We should love him for his creations, but that doesn't mean that he loves every person on earth.

I don't know what religion you follow, but I know Catholicism says that God loves every human unconditionally and forever. Just studying a bit of the Gospels with Jesus and you realize the people Jesus (or God as Catholics believe) hung out with were sinners and whores and stuff. Because he was a sinner himself? Obviously not, but because he (or God) loves them and always will and realizes they simply need guidance.

This is not to say I'm Catholic, just that while going to Catholic school you learn quite a bit.

db

[LeonMagnolis]

I feel like disecting a post-- I choose..... :: Points to gangsta thug boy :: Chis.

I don't believe in god because I (as well as pretty much everyone else I know) don't believe in stuff until it can be proven. People use the argument "Well, you can't prove there ISN'T a god, can you?" and I don't have to prove something wrong to know it's not real. Like I said hundreds of times before, if you're going to believe something that can't be scientifically proven just because it makes sense to you and your prayers have come true, then you'd have to try every single religion to see if you were right.

I just want to say that I've looked at many other religions and found flaws-- small things that go wrong. I, myself, am a Christain, and I believe in what I believe because of the facts I know about the Bible and God.

~I know that the Bible has never been wrong. If you compare the origional biblical transcripts with other accepted historical documents, you will find no extraordinary contradictions. Every Biblical city has been located, most every biblical personality has been accounted for in other historical documents, and as far as we know, it contains pure fact. I have yet to see any discovery that mankind has made contradict the bible's teaching.

~I know that the Bible has no in context contradictions in it's origional manuscripts. If you read through the Bible, you will find that in the origional documents, there are no contradictions and no overlaps anywhere. If anyone in here has found one, I'd like to see it-- but aside from that, there are no overlaps.

~I know that the Bible's teachings are invaluable. If anyone would like to debate this, then look in-- leviticus, I believe it was, in the old testiment law. You'll find laws for cleanliness. Take a moment to reflect on the affects that the laws would have on our culture if we followed them today. STD's would be rare, if not nonexistant, Food poisoning would be nearly gone, and this is only the beginning of the benifits.

I haven't tried every religion, but I've studied the bible, Read up on it's backround, compared it with other books, and found it to be the most logical one out there.

Anyhoo, I think god is jusy a fairy tale that has made it big. I mean, just think about a person who controls everything anybody does and lives in a place we don't know of/can't see. until we're dead... LMAO, when you can find me proof that controlling millions of people is possible, maybe I'll believe it then.

A place that we don't know of? Odd. If you didn't know if it, then how can you speak of it? Just a thought.

Can't see? I can't see air. A simple arguement indeed, but it seems to do the trick. I can see the effects of air, you'll say. But it's simple enough to argue that everything around here is the effect of God's workmanship. Please, think about what you say before you say it.

As for the controlling people-- that is simple. Look at the kings and dictators of this century. Take hitler for example. He controlled a country. If he didn't have control over the people, would they really have let him kill 500,000 jews (I'm not sure about the number). Would they really have let him start a war? He was in control-- No question about it.

And of course, there's the question who made god? Nobody has ever answered that in a way where it makes any sense at all, so nobody should have a reason to believe he's real.

Who made the universe? Then why should we believe it's real?

And who's ever seen god? Has anyone ever taken a picture of god?

Answered above..........

Annnnnnd isn't it convenient that almost everything that has to do with proving god is real happens after you die? Of course nobody can prove he's not real when you say we have to die first to make sure. People have been dead and then came alive before, so couldn't they tell us if they saw god?

You make it sound like it's a conspiricy. And what makes you think that most of the things that have to do with God happen after you die? As far as you know, we all go to Heaven after we die and that's it. Have you read the Bible and tried to understand what it says? If you did, then I'm sure you would realize that God has alot to do with us while we're still in this world.

But above all: If god wanted me to know he was real, he would do so. He created us all, right? So if he created us, why don't we automatically know he's real? He would have just made it an unarguable fact, like saying wood comes from trees, etc.

And why would he do that? If he WAS real, then what would give you the right to tell him what to do, and what makes you think that you have half a clue of what he would do? Just another thought.



I doubt anyone will read this, but let me leave youall with this thought. It's an age-old thought from a man named Pascal. This is known as Pascal's wager.


"There are four possibilites as to what happens after we die.

1. There is no God and we did not believe in one. We gain nothing.
2. There is no God and we did believe in one. We gain nothing.
3. There is a God and we believed in him. We gain everything.
4. There is a God but we denied him. We lose everything."


Although there are many religions to follow, wouldn't you think it's best to at least choose one? If someone gave you a free lotto ticket, would you just toss it to the side? What if that ticket had the jackpot on it? You don't lose anything by taking it, but if you do toss the ticket, and it's a winner, then you don't get the money-- you lose it.


"Leo"

[bobcat]

Originally posted by DeathsHand
"Pyramids, Easter Island, etc etc hasn't been proven by scientists (i don't think) but the pyramids and heads are there, and I don't think there is a believable explanation available"

I saw this show about the pyramids (Egyptian history is like one of the few kinds I actually find interesting ) where like... from the tools available at the time... or something... they constructed this little thing which had to do with efficiency and stuff I guess, and it made it so just like a few people could lift this big block enough to get some support under it and then lift it up one more "level"...

and there was also this theory that there was like a system of ramps or something wrapping up around the pyramids...

but I dunno fo sho...

As for the big heads... I dunno... what's so... god....like.... about them? heh heh...

As for Deja Vu... I've also had times where something had happened and I was like 100% sure that it had happened before...

I dunno... the human mind isn't perfect or nutin, it could just be a weird trick...

I've had some major deja vu in school where the teacher said something and I was like "Whoa, I coulda sworn we learned this like last year :eek:"

THank you DH!

At least somebody around here has the guts

HAHAHAH SUCKED IN. You got 7000 posts................

Oh wait that's that DB stuff Damn eyes.

Neways, the heads in Easter Island are huge (not forgetting heavy), and apparently nobody has proven how they got there.

Also with the Pyramids there's been huge talk about how they were built so perfectly, and stacked. Even with all the technology in the world they could not replicate them

an anonymous voice says*but bobcat, that goes for old paintings, roman artifacts and heaps of other stuff*

Quiet you!

Anyway they had other stuff in this show i was watching about pyramids. Like how the world would turn out in the future, and apparently it was really accurate.

My point is that if science can't prove how these things got here, then who's to say God doesn't exist?

I don't know much about this stuff, so i'm expecting to get proven wrong.....very soon