Do you want MORE from games these days?

Perfect Stu · 05-30-2003, 03:49 PM

The videogame industry has become ridiculously large...total revenue surpassed that of worldwide cinema box offices. Production costs for games have been on the steady incline for YEARS now...games are being funded by millions upon millions of dollars. And yet, I can honestly look back and count but a few games that really connected with me on the level of blockbuster films.

I think the word I'm looking for here is EPIC. Dozens of games hold the meaning 'classic' in my mind, but few have reached the level of epic. Metal Gear Solid, to me, was epic. Ocarina of Time? Possibly.

As an example

I look at a genre like the platformer and while I like many platformers, I feel like a lot more could be done with the genre. Super Mario Bros. was truly revolutionary, and offered a gameplay experience not nearly like any other for its time. The core gameplay elements went hand-in-hand with many Mario games to follow like SMB3, SMW, and even through its transition to 3D gaming with SM64 and SMS. To me, the series started on NES with an absolute EXPLOSION. SMB and SMB3 still remain 10 ten of all time quality games in my mind. But as the series progressed, a hint of staleness emerged. And it got just a little worse with each next installment. Simplified:

SMB - 94/100
SMB3 - 95/100
SMW - 91/100
SM64 - 87/100
SMS - 81/100

Not much thought went into those scores, but it gives you an idea anyway. I think that as the times changed, the Mario series (along with others...I just use Mario as an example) didn't keep pace. Since I was exposed to the afformentioned epics MGS and OoT, I've expected more from a AAA game. Comelling soundtrack and overall game sound, thought-provoking, hollywood-calibur storyline, character development, quality voice work, replay value (10+ hours at least for a story-driven game), top notch visuals, stylish presentation and addictive gameplay.

Imagine a Mario game. Mario has more personality and character traits...he will embark over a gigantic adventure through Mushroom Kingdom, through green hills and rocky valleys, through snow topped mountains and overactive volcanos. Up to the clouds and into the sea. And he isn't doing it for the good of his own health. He isn't doing it to add to his coin and star collection. He has a reason...something to drive him. The story can include saving the princess from Bowser for all I care, but I want it to be something important. Something you'll remember and think about for years to come. Imagine cutscenes, humour, and voicework for TONS of characters along your quest. Talking fish, rock-monsters, turtles, mushrooms, whatever. And then realize that it COULD be done today.

The whole "Bowser stole the princess for no apparent reason other than to give Mario a half-assed reason to hop all over the place" worked back in the 80's. It really worked. But the times have changed, like I said.

***See, this thread really doesn't have much to do with Mario. I used Mario as the example for obvious reasons (most recognizable character in gaming history, and a series I'm sure all of you have experienced). The same scenario could apply to almost any given game of any given genre. Gaming is expensive, and money is both valuable and limited. For what I pay for gaming, I want more out of it these days. I expect more.***

Crono · 05-30-2003, 03:57 PM

Yeah, now that I think of it, you're right. Some games that I've bought which were supposed to be good ended up not even being worth half of what I payed for. I don't expect much from smaller developers, but for the big shots like Nintendo, Sega, Capcom, Konami, etc., I expect AAA titles if the game is part of a great long running series. But it seems that sequels are becoming worse when compared to their predecessors. And for nearly $80 per game, sometimes it seems hardly worth it.

BreakABone · 05-30-2003, 04:12 PM

To me a game has to have one quality and that's it. It has to be fun. I don't care if the music invovles cats singing or a teacher scratching their nail across the board, heck I don't even care if the storyline was written by Shakespeare himself. I just care for a fun game, graphics, music, story.. all that other junk isn't too important to me.

Perfect Stu · 05-30-2003, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BreakABone
To me a game has to have one quality and that's it. It has to be fun. I don't care if the music invovles cats singing or a teacher scratching their nail across the board, heck I don't even care if the storyline was written by Shakespeare himself. I just care for a fun game, graphics, music, story.. all that other junk isn't too important to me.

I agree with you...but for a game to be 'fun', a large number of areas have to be addressed. No? Pong was fun...but would you pay $50 today to buy a version of Pong?

BreakABone · 05-30-2003, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Perfect Stu
I agree with you...but for a game to be 'fun', a large number of areas have to be addressed. No? Pong was fun...but would you pay $50 today to buy a version of Pong?

I wouldn't pay 50 bucks, but I'll buy it. Heck, I'm gonna buy Super Mario Advance 4 for what 40 bucks? It's a great game, and well a good game is a good game.

nWoCHRISnWo · 05-30-2003, 05:10 PM

I dunno if I'm just losing a little interest in games or if they aren't as good anymore, but I know I'm not getting the "epic" games I once was used to. For NES, there were TONS of games that I love and would consider classics. SNES was pretty good that way too, then N64 had a lot less, and PS2 and GC have a lot less than N64 even. There are barely any recent games that I have as much fun playing as I did older games.

And the "extras" like graphics, storyline, sounds, etc. mean very, very little to me. It seems like the new games are more story driven, and full of these wack graphics affects, and the old classic games I love were all about fun.

Jason1 · 05-30-2003, 10:26 PM

I agree with stu in most regards, but I dont think a game has to be epic to be considerd one of the greatest games ever. (although stu didnt really say that exactly) I think a game can be worth my money without being ''Epic'' Are sports games epic? No. Are they worth 50 bucks? In many cases, yes.

One other thing, SM64 brought a whole new genre to gaming in my mind: the 3D platformer. Its formula has been copied time after time, and its one of the greatest games ever made, simple as that. It deserves way more than a 8.7.

Null · 05-30-2003, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jason1
One other thing, SM64 brought a whole new genre to gaming in my mind: the 3D platformer. Its formula has been copied time after time, and its one of the greatest games ever made, simple as that. It deserves way more than a 8.7.

it did.... It stands to date as the highest rated mario game.

it just depends on where you pick your reviews from.

thatmariolover · 05-30-2003, 11:21 PM

I'd say that in some situations I would like more from games. But sometimes simple is the way to go.

I play games like Deus Ex, Splinter Cell, or Metal Gear Solid and think, I wish this were even more realistic.

But then I load up my GC preview disk and play [pre]Viewtiful Joe, and I wonder why gaming got so complicated.

It's very contradictory.

Perfect Stu · 05-30-2003, 11:35 PM

8.7, to me, is VERY good. I'm not one of those people that throw around 9.0+ scores like they're worthless. But that's hardly the point at hand...

bobcat · 05-31-2003, 12:09 AM

I get what your saying Stu.

You would like to see new things made to Mario. Maybe a better story line, or a different world etc. Mountains and Icelands and stuff.

The thing is with Mario is that all it's been about is simple fun. I actually played SMS last night, and am still amazed at this game.

I don't think Nintendo would try something that could backfire on them hence media would make an ever bigger mock of them (e.g. Nintendo TRIES to go mature with Mario, but blabla).

Mario still works for what it is. It's not about storyline, or major upgrades, or violence, it's about fun at its purest. And I think SMS has done that, and then some.

I'll be expecting these types of Mario games for years to come, and looking forward to playing them immensly.

So to answer your question, when I played SMS I didn't expect more. It's pretty much exactly what I wanted and more. The roller coaster ride was sick. The worlds were awesome. The water effects have been unmatched, and it's one of my favourite games this generation I have played without doubt.

I've enjoyed my GC games, my Ps2 games, but to be honest I expected more from the Xbox games. The only exclusive games I've enjoyed playing is Halo. But when Halo2/Fable and others come, I'm hoping to say better things about it.

And Super Mario Sunshine also got 9.4 on IGN. http://cube.ign.com/articles/368/368539p1.html

TheGame · 05-31-2003, 03:04 AM

I think for a game to be considerd the GOAT, it has to be at the peak of technology for it's time... and it has to have a great story, and great presentation... and geat memorable music, and great gameplay of course

Look at games like Halo, MGS, and Zelda:OoT... these are conenders for the GOAT, why? Because they have the full package. Games like Metriod Prime and Soul Caliber which are considerd great, still wouldn't be on anybody's list as GOAT because it's missing some element...

That's how I see it at least. I think Mario should stay Mario, even adding the squirt gun was kinda off imo... but I do think more games in the future need to start running on 3-4 year development cycles and start making sure that it's near perfect in all elements. It's sad to see all the great concepts today rushed.