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After Seeing Bungie's Halo 2...
Old 09-07-2002, 02:06 AM   #1
D-realJos
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Default After Seeing Bungie's Halo 2...

...I'm excited as hell to see Factor 5's next GC project. I know I'm not the only one, still, it's a good read, and interesting to think about/discuss. Read on!

What makes me anxious is the fact that developers Factor 5 and Bungie Studios, pertty much went head to head during the launch of Xbox and GameCube, with their first-gen games--Rogue Leader and Halo.

Factor 5 Vs Bungie Studios: Round 1
(GameCube holds it's own against Xbox)

From a technical standpoint, both these games turn many heads, and for the most part, were the only two console games that best showed what each respective system was capable of at the time of release.

Looking back, I think it's safe to say that Rogue Leader had the edge over Halo. While some touchy gamers/fanboys would disagree, the facts will remain.

Amazing bump-mapped textures on par with Halo's
click here

Significantly more detailed models
click here

Displayed more on-screen detail
click here

Used self-shadowing extensively. Something Halo completely lacked.
click here

--While doing all that, it STILL generally run at 2X the framerate of Halo. Really, Rogue Leader showcased the cababilities of GameCube exceptionally well. Amidst all the opposing debates/flamewars, I had absolutely no doubt that the Cube could give the Box a run for it's money any day, if handled correctly. Afterall, Facfor 5 never once doubted the Cube's power.

If you're familiar with Factor 5, you'd know that the company's president, Julian Eggebrecht, is a very talkative guy(especially before and shortly after the release of Rogue Leader).

I'm sure many of you may still remembers statements like the following.

"...we don’t think there is anything visually you could do on X-Box (or PS2) which can’t be done on GameCube..." Julian continued, "when I said that X-Box and GameCube are on par power-wise I really meant it. " -- interviewed by PlanetGameCube.


It's true that 'talk is cheap', but that's only when you can't back it up. As you've seen with Rogue Leader, quotes like that was easily justified.


Factor 5 vs Bungie Studios: Round 2
(Can the Cube go another?)

Fast-forward to the present, times have changed, Bungie is on to their second-gen title, and while that above statement from Julian may ultimately be true, it is however, no longer substantiated, as there is currently nothing on GameCube that comparatively stands on the same technological level as Halo 2 is aiming for. Can Factor 5 'put' the Cube back on Xbox's level? With the recently announced Halo 2, Bungie/Microsoft seem intent on turning heads yet again. Admittedly, the game screens were and eyefull(I haven't had chance to check out the trailer), and even the most critical of people would find it hard to deny the game's beauty. For Bungie, this will be their second-gen attempt, so naturally they're pulling out all the stops. As they stated;

"Our code squeezes every drop of power out of the Xbox... We're doing dynamic lighting and shadows, per-pixel everything, rendering gigantic, lush environments. The graphical features we're using are so advanced we don't even have buzzwords for them yet." --- Chris Butcher, lead engineer

<-- click to enlarge...she's a beauty, ain't she?

I've been watching these boards closely since the Halo 2 announcement, and it seems the question that lingers on almost everyone thoughts, yet, reluctant to ask is;[edit, I was refering to IGN boards]

"Will we see similarly impressive GameCube software, that rivals the visual seen in Halo 2?"

Now, I do feel that equally incredible feats are possible on GCN, but you have to ask yourself: What are the chances of that occuring by developers who are only now making their first batch of GameCube software, or developers who didn't appeared to really take advantage of the hardware as yet? The chance is there, but slim.

That's why I(like many of you) am anxious to see Factor 5's next line of work . They've already released a GC game, and quite frankly, their knowledge of the hardware have so far proven to be unparallele. What makes them even more interesting, is that comparatively, they are probably as knowledgeable of GameCube, as Bungie is of Xbox. They've had just as much time to tear apart the hardware as Bungie did. If there's any GC game that'll challenge what Bungie is doing on Xbox, anytime soon, that is; it's a high possibility that it'll come out of Factor 5's headquarters. It'd always be interesting to see if their software will "cross paths" with Bungie's again, and how they'll both utilize the potential of the respective console.


Patience, time will tell
(the wait is on!)

Meanwhile, Factor 5 is keeping the lid closed on their possible GC project/s. Can they prove (again) that GameCube can compete on the same level as Xbox? All there is to dwell on is references to an aging head to head between Halo and RL, and vague statements from Factor 5, regarding second-gen software.

--- "In a second generation game we’ll obviously focus on more complicated applications[for GCN's programmable TEV pipeline]." Factor 5, interviewed by PGC.

--- "We have already started work on the next projects and have a bit more time with the Gamecube launch pressure gone. Rogue Leader might seem to do a lot, but look at it as the bare minimum. You can do so many things in a second-generation game, and everybody here is really excited about pushing the Gamecube hardware." --- Factor 5, EGM magazine (fall, 2001)

--- "Within the constraints of a first generation title we are very happy with how much we are able to put into the game[Rogue Leader] and it certainly uses a lot of the Gamecube's features. On the other hand, this is only the tip of the iceberg and we already have a gazillion ideas of what to do in second generation products." --- Factor 5, interviewed by LucasGames

Sounds promising, and I can't wait to see the fruits of their labor. Whether or not it'll be enough to rival what Bungie is doing, is a probability we'll have to await.


Well, I'll end on that note, but I want to leave you guys with these two questions:

1) Do you believe that--from a technical standpoint--Factor 5 can once again prove that GameCube can indeed keep up with Xbox, by rivaling what Bungie is doing in Halo 2?

2) Is there anyone that thinks Bungie Studios/Xbox may have raised the bar to a point where Factor 5/GameCube can only approach Halo's visuals/technology, but not equal/surpass them?

(note: I believe Factor 5 next game may be an 'original' game, therefore may not be released until a while after Bungie's sequel to Halo. Still, I'm looking forward to see how it'll stack up because both companies are undoubtfully at work on their games simultaneously, even now as we speak)

All comments are welcome, share your thoughts!


PS: I posted this on IGN boards today, so naturally, we got us ourselves a GT version as well.
(only minor inconvenience is that you have follow links at the beginning, in order to see the pics[admittedly, I do like the way pics are automatically resized on IGN boards.. keeps threads neat]. Everything else is virtually indentical)
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Old 09-07-2002, 02:33 AM   #2
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After reading what you made, I am anxiously waiting for the first screens of Factor 5's new game. Since they had I think 8 months to do RL and it looked like that. Who knows what they can pump out if they go for say, 16 months or more. *sigh* It seems soo far away. Also, another great read. Cleared alot of things up. Keep bringing them!
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Old 09-07-2002, 04:30 AM   #3
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Actually, I think it was a tad bit more than 8 months. It took them 10 months to make RL... That is really impressive.

After seeing Metroid form Retro, I am eagerly waiting Factor 5's next game. Metroid looks fantastic, and I can only think that since it will be released some time earlier than Factor 5's new offering, Factor 5's new gme will be one step ahead not only in the visual department, but also technically.

Though the proof is in the pudding (which hasnt been served yet ), I do think that technically and graphically, Factor 5's new game will be hovering around the same level as Halo 2.

But nothing can be proved until we see some footage of the new game.
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WTF is worng with those IGN members?
Old 09-07-2002, 04:46 AM   #4
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Default WTF is worng with those IGN members?

how is it that you guys can respond to the main idea/question of the thread(can Factor 5 rival what Bungie is doing), yet, I posted this over at ign, got 88 replies so far, and only remember ONE guy that offered his thoughts on the main idea? ONE GUY! how is that?

a lot of people are swaying the thread off course, expecially some trolls....
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Last edited by D-realJos : 09-07-2002 at 05:02 AM.
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Old 09-07-2002, 05:03 AM   #5
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IGNers suck.

Anyway, they've been working on that game for ages now. They had some concept art of the game before we even knew what the Dolphin's real name was!

But.... a year ago the game dissapeared from their site...

But yeah, the game could compare to Halo 2. We know they have the talent and that GameCube has the power.
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Old 09-07-2002, 10:28 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angrist
Anyway, they've been working on that game for ages now. They had some concept art of the game before we even knew what the Dolphin's real name was!
Are you talking about Thornado? I thought that was just something like a demo.
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Old 09-07-2002, 11:57 AM   #7
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Thornando was a real game, in devolpment for the Gamecube. It was quietly canned.

Anyways, I think Retro is allready rivaling Halo 2 with Metroid Prime. Im not an expert on crap like that, but I think metroid looks better.
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Old 09-07-2002, 03:59 PM   #8
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I do think F5 can over-shadow Halo 2, but I dont think they will be the ones to do it. I think SK with Too Human will, and then F5 will make and even better looking game.

I wish I could find the interview, but its a rather old one stating the graphics that were being produced now for TH (well now, as in then) are better then the 98' FMV screens:







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Old 09-07-2002, 04:40 PM   #9
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Hmm...

And I thought we were talking about Thornado... weren't we?
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Old 09-07-2002, 04:58 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by GameKinG

Me in 10 years. (Minus the weird metal hand thingy)
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Old 09-07-2002, 05:24 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by GameKinG
I wish I could find the interview, but its a rather old one stating the graphics that were being produced now for TH (well now, as in then) are better then the 98' FMV screens:

It was a statement by Denis Dyack during his interaction with members on IGN boards. I know where to find it, although, it'd take some time.

In his last Q&A, I got a few questions in.

Me:
Quote:
why bother to run the game[ED] on a sub engine rather than use the full-blown Too Human engine?
Denis:
Quote:
The games are different and we have to [do] different things in ED than Too Human. Too Human is more complex in certain areas which I am not going to talk about.
yeah, so vague...
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Old 09-07-2002, 05:26 PM   #12
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wut the hell is too human about anyway?
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Old 09-07-2002, 05:28 PM   #13
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Oh yeah, you're the one that keeps e-mailing companies.

Jonbo, that avatar.... what on earth is it?!? Say that's not you!
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Old 09-07-2002, 06:06 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angrist
Jonbo, that avatar.... what on earth is it?!? Say that's not you!
Its Fat Bastard! That could be me in 5 years, with a slow progression to 10(look up)
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Old 09-07-2002, 06:38 PM   #15
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Sorry to break the party here guys, but Xbox is a hell of a lot more powerful than Gamecube. If Factor 5 ever makes a game that looks as good or better than Halo 2, some other developer willl top that with some other game on Xbox.

All the programming tests show that Xbox is the BEAST of this generation.
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