Segway's P.U.M.A.

Professor S · 04-08-2009, 08:27 AM

Many thanks to GM and Segway (they're still in business?) for proving the point I made in he Cap in Trade thread:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/...egway-gm_N.htm

This is the dumbest goddamn idea I've ever heard of.

1) It's top speed is 35 mph, so it' basically limited to densely populated city travel. So city people never need to go out of town? They don't take public transport if it's available in these areas? What about L.A.? How will this work with the large, highway based cities? Even Phildelphia is a stretch for this. This still fails the same way the segway fails... because it still only replaces foot traffic and people would rather just walk or take public transport when they need to.

2) It seats two people with little to no storage. Don't city folk have kids? What about shopping and the need to haul shit? You've eliminated families from your market base and it tends to be those with families who have the expendable income to afford frivolous shit like this.

3) It has zero safety features beyond a computer that "will never let you crash". So you'll teleport if a Hummer bears down on you? It isn't intended to work on existing roads... thats right... not only is this a terrible idea, but it will require local, state and national governments as well as private institutions to create brand new infrastructure specifically for this one horrible idea that no one wants or asked for.

This shit blows my fucking mind. GM partnered with Segway on this? Is this what the federal government believes will save the auto-industry? A two seater Segway????? REALLY, YOU FUCKING OBLIVIOUS MORONS??? I apologize for swearing, but I'm actually restraining myself right now.

It boggles the mind to think that GM/the government think that partnering with this company (who's biggest success was a product cameo in Paul Blart Mall Cop) will save them.

manasecret · 04-08-2009, 09:45 AM

Quote:

The partnership with Segway began about 18 months ago, predating GM's emergency survival loans from the government.

So try not to blame the government in your rant.

Just blame GM. Every true patriot says you must buy domestic. I say B.S. I'll buy domestic the day that the quality, reliability, MPG, and prices of their cars matches those of Toyota and Honda. And the day they stop focusing on stupid toys like the PUMA.

Professor S · 04-08-2009, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manasecret

So try not to blame the government in your rant.

Well then I blame the government for not immediately cancelling this travesty of an idea (they canned the CEO so why stop at that?), and giving any money to GM in the first place without first giving their creative team a collective IQ test.

Either way GM shouldn't get a dime from the government going forward if this is what our public investment gets us. GM has proven itself as a company that deserves to fail, and I say that being a GM car owner.

If we didn't need the US auto-industry's production lines to create military vehicles in the chance of a full war, I don't think any of this would be happening.

Jason1 · 04-08-2009, 12:21 PM

I saw this on the news recently and I'll agree that obviously this cant replace your normal vehicle. And I dont assume they are positioning it in that way. Thats what the Chevy Volt is for...

Professor S · 04-08-2009, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason1

I saw this on the news recently and I'll agree that obviously this cant replace your normal vehicle. And I dont assume they are positioning it in that way. Thats what the Chevy Volt is for...

If it is not intended to replace existing modes of travel, it is not necessary, and now they ask people to spend a lot of money on something completely unecessary. This was the same problem with the original segway in the first place. I love the idea of green and convenient travel, but the entire segway experiment is a failure becuse they couldn't match their vision with a realistic market.

The Volt has promise, but it still needs big improvements in range and cost effectiveness in both price and maintenance. Until hybrid/green vehicles can become economical as well as environemental, I think they'll remain a popular fad, but won't have staying power in the marketplace. Most hybrids sold today are $5,000 - $7,000 more than their traditional versions, and that translates to 7-11 years of use before the buyer sees any economic benefit from their purchase. The economics is the missing link in all this.

I agree that there is a market for green products, but they need to make sense. To me, the PUMA makes no sense because it has no market. Hopefully the Volt, with improvements, will have a market.

manasecret · 04-08-2009, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Professor S

Until hybrid/green vehicles can become economical as well as environemental, I think they'll remain a popular fad, but won't have staying power in the marketplace. Most hybrids sold today are $5,000 - $7,000 more than their traditional versions, and that translates to 7-11 years of use before the buyer sees any economic benefit from their purchase.

My car is way past its prime and so I've recently started looking into what cars are out there.

While for all cars where there is a "normal" version and also a "hybrid" version (like almost all hybrid cars on the market), the cost is an extra $5,000 - $7,000 (or more for luxury cars) and, I agree, it is not worth it.

But I was surprised by the price of the Prius, the lone car on the market (or one of two cars) where there is only one version and that is hybrid. At $22,000 new, I find that it is an extremely economical price for the car with the best mileage on the road and what has been rated by ConsumerReports as an extremely reliable vehicle. Compare that to the most popular car - the Toyota Camry for about $19,000. Or compare that to the price for mid-size trucks or small-size SUVs - about $21,000 - $23,000. Or to large trucks and SUVs - about $28,000 and up. To me, the Prius can easily compete economically with the cars that most Americans buy.

Of course, if you really need an SUV or truck, then a Prius won't suffice. But I reckon for the average Joe out there, a hauling vehicle isn't necessary for their daily life, and a five-seater with plenty of storage space will work great.

Now, compared to a bare-bones Honda Civic (which I believe is around $15,000) or a small truck (about $15,000), the Prius can't compete for the budget consumer. But at $22,000, it's not like it's a luxury price either.

Bond · 04-08-2009, 04:47 PM

Don't forget about Honda's new competitor to the Prius: the Insight.

manasecret · 04-08-2009, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bond

Don't forget about Honda's new competitor to the Prius: the Insight.

Starting at $19,800, even cheaper. These are mainstream prices, and they are only likely to get cheaper as they catch on. I think hybrids are here to stay.

Professor S · 04-08-2009, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manasecret

Starting at $19,800, even cheaper. These are mainstream prices, and they are only likely to get cheaper as they catch on. I think hybrids are here to stay.

Perhaps. You have swayed me to the possibility. The real test will be getting SUV's and trucks have workable options as well. Americans love larger cars and I think once Prius and Insight-esque versions of those come out that can compete pricewise, they'll cement themselves.

You're right, though, those prices are encouraging. I am now optimistic.

The Germanator · 04-08-2009, 06:29 PM

I agree with the ideas that have come about here. Some kind of hybrid is my ideal vehicle, but until I either start making a lot more money or they get cheaper, it's hard for me to consider actually getting one.

Anyway, I don't like the P.U.M.A either. I appreciate the idea behind it, but that execution looks to be a failure. I feel like you're better served getting a bike than something like that.

What does everyone think about the Smart Cars?

Jason1 · 04-08-2009, 07:43 PM

The more I look at that PUMA thing the more I think "where have I seen that before"

...oh yea...

Professor S · 04-09-2009, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Germanator

What does everyone think about the Smart Cars?

I like the Smart Cars. They are under $20,000 fully loaded, made by Mercedes, and for a tiny car they top out at 90 MPH. They are also built around a brilliant orb-like frame that is very safe. My only issue with the car is that the miles per gallon isn't as good as you would expect from a car that small. Combine the idea and technology with a hydrogen cell or lithium battery to pump up the mpg, and you have yourself a small car movement.

It still doesn't meet large car demands, but it has enough going for it to be a second car consideration for most families, I think, especially if families are thinking about buying cars for their kids (used or new).

KillerGremlin · 04-09-2009, 11:32 AM

Hybrids will catch on when gas starts to really become expensive....that is the conclusion I have reached. Right now gas is still dirt cheap in America. For the majority of people who don't live in LA/sniff their own farts, the intensive to buy a hybrid or electric is null.

Dylflon · 04-09-2009, 01:24 PM

I think hybrids are a shitty compromise and we could do better. BRING ON THE ELECTRICS!

That said, I would drive the PUMA. Despite being totally lame, it's kind of cool.

KillerGremlin · 04-09-2009, 01:32 PM

The reality is electric cars can't go very far....they have low horse power.....and they rely on electricity. Most of your electricity comes from dirty coal and isn't all that green in the first place. If the electricity came from renewable sources like solar, wind or water, then it would be win-win. I'm also a proponent of nuclear power, which has become very clean and efficient outside of the US (for some reason the US has some objection to updating our plants). I can't wait till solar cells become more efficient....one day we will have solar cars.

Hybrids are the best of both worlds right now.....you get like 50+ miles to the gallon on the better cars.....

For the record I think hybrid SUVs are dumb.