Bush is a Goof

Joeiss · 03-07-2002, 05:06 PM

Did any of you guys see Bush's address about the Palestinian and Israelian war? He kept on saying that the only way peace can happen if evil and fighting is shut down. If violence escalates, or if people are doing things to escalate violence, then peace will never be a reality.

All I have to say is, What the F*ck is Bush talking about? He is saying that peace cannot be reached through violence. Yet, the United States army has bombed the hell out of the Taliban since November! Thousands of Taliban and Al Queda fighters have dies from United States aritillery. But, if what Bush says is true, then there will never be peace with the Taliban, or more importantly, terrorism.

I think that Bush is one big loser, who likes to condtradict his actions with his words. Does anybody have comments on this? If so, post them here.

Revival · 03-07-2002, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joeiss
All I have to say is, What the F*ck is Bush talking about? He is saying that peace cannot be reached through violence. Yet, the United States army has bombed the hell out of the Taliban since November! Thousands of Taliban and Al Queda fighters have dies from United States aritillery. But, if what Bush says is true, then there will never be peace with the Taliban, or more importantly, terrorism.

They killed thousands of Americans.. do you want us to just forget about it?

I don't get your point -- Bush said that they need to STOP the fighing in order to gain peace.

See: He kept on saying that the only way peace can happen if evil and fighting is shut down. If violence escalates, or if people are doing things to escalate violence, then peace will never be a reality.

Peace can happen if fighting is shut down. That's not encouraging violence, or even condoning it.

Edit (3/7/02): Of course there is going to be no end to terrorism, or violence, unfortunately -- it's something that is in our world, as sad and as sorry as it is. War is a way to end something, and stop the killing of innocent people. The Taliban aren't innocent, they crashed 3 planes -- remember September 11th? They came on our soil and attacked us. Who's the good and bad there?

Edit (3/7/02): I don't think Bush is doing anything wrong. He's taking the right action against the Taliban, holding them accountable for their actions. He's not encouraging fighting anywhere, he's saying that in the Middle East, the fighting needs to stop, so there CAN be peace.

N8 · 03-07-2002, 05:18 PM

some people are so jaded...

its sad

if we don't attack the taliban and other terrorist cells, they will continue to attack. destroying terrorist cells is the only way to stop terrorism, that won't even stop it because there will always be new wackos, but it will prevent a lot of attacks if we keep taking the cells out.

unlike the terrorists, the US is not killing innocent people, we are taking out those who pose a threat to the world.

Revival · 03-07-2002, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by N8
unlike the terrorists, the US is not killing innocent people, we are taking out those who pose a threat to the world.

Exactly! The terrorists are the bad people here, and we're stopping the destruction. Some would say we're fighting fire with fire.. but I don't see it that way. I see that we are stopping the terrorists from killing thousands of other innocent people, because of their f**cked up beliefs.

Gamer · 03-07-2002, 05:29 PM

I dont have much of a problem with Bush, i think that killing the pakis is fine, i mean, look what they did to us. But I do wonder wtf he was talking about a couple months ago when he said that mexico was america's most important allie. That pissed me off, i mean, without Canada U.S would be a little ****ed, but so would canada without the U.S. What does mexico have to offer? some noisemakers? like wtf was he smoking when he said that.

Revival · 03-07-2002, 05:35 PM

What are you smoking gamer? All allies to the US are important allies, some more than others. You really can't "rate" allies.. but some are more important than others.

Joeiss · 03-07-2002, 05:40 PM

Okay... Can you guys read again what I posted, please? I said that :

Quote:

He kept on saying that the only way peace can happen if evil and fighting is shut down. If violence escalates, or if people are doing things to escalate violence, then peace will never be a reality.

Now, is there not violence happening in Afghanistan? And who is on the offensive? America. Bush does not see peace happening with more violence, though. So, Bush is maybe a little confised, or something like that.

And, I was talking to Shooter on AIM. He says that the Taliban are terrorists and should be eliminated. Sure, the Taliban who carried out the plan of 9/11 are terrorists, but I cannot say that the ones in Afghanistan are, unless they took part in other terrorist acts. Now, Shooter also said that it is okay to kill terrorists. So, the violence happening in the MIddle East is wrong, which almost everybody agrees on. Now, is it okay to kill a terrorist? I think not.

Terrorists are still people, still citizens of the world. I think that God has forgiven them for the wrong that they have done, so killing them is like killing innocent people, IMO.

Revival · 03-07-2002, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joeiss
Now, is it okay to kill a terrorist? I think not.

Terrorists are still people, still citizens of the world. I think that God has forgiven them for the wrong that they have done, so killing them is like killing innocent people, IMO.

There's where my opinions become different.. I'm not religious, I don't believe in god, and I don't see all sins as equal (as Nate has said over AIM)..

Joeiss · 03-07-2002, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shooter

There's where my opinions become different.. I'm not religious, I don't believe in god, and I don't see all sins as equal (as Nate has said over AIM)..

Well, I do not want this to become a religious battle... So I will just say that I think that that although these terrorists did horrible acts, I forgive them. But I guess my opinion probably won't count to some of you or these government people.

Revival · 03-07-2002, 06:02 PM

No, your opinion counts.. everyone's does. Doesn't mean it's going to change anything though.. that's how life is

Xantar · 03-07-2002, 06:07 PM

So, Joeiss, are you saying that we shouldn't have gone into the war against Al Quaeda and the Taliban?

Look, I wasn't happy about the war. I'm not happy with the way Bush is looking for new targets in North Korea or Iraq.

But nonetheless, destroying Al Quaeda is the right thing to do. Bush said that the only way to end violence is if fighting and evil are shut down. Do you really think Al Quaeda is going to do that? Do you seriously think for one instant that Al Quaeda fighters are going to just lay down their weapons and ask for peace?

If you do, you are naïve. They have shown that they are capable of incredible wrongdoing against innocent civilians and that moreover they would happily do it again if they are given the opportunity. I ask you again: do you really think Al Quaeda is going to be the one to stop the fighting?

So if not them, who else to do it but us (us being the people against Al Quaeda, that is)? And how are we going to stop Al Quaeda from committing more acts of terrorism? I can only think of one way, and that is to kill them. If you've got a better idea, one that will work, I'm all ears. But I've taken a long, hard look at this, and I've come to the conclusion that there really wasn't any other way. Al Quaeda has to be wiped off the face of the earth. Otherwise, more innocent civilians will die. Do you get it? By letting Al Quaeda continue to exist in its current form, you would advocate putting thousands of innocent civilians at risk. Never mind whether God has forgiven them or not. That's between Him and the individual people. Unless people are punished for their transgressions or prevented from committing further atrocities, all of civilization will collapse. And I'm pretty certain that God wouldn't want that.

gamer: if you take an economics class, you will find that the U.S. economy is intimately tied with Mexico's. Not only are there thousands of immigrants taking on jobs here that nobody else will do, but there are also billions of dollars in goods that the two countries trade. If all ties to Mexico were broken off, the American economy would go into one of the deepest recessions in history. Vicente Fox is right: the U.S. would not be able to survive the way it is without Mexico.

Joeiss · 03-07-2002, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shooter
No, your opinion counts.. everyone's does. Doesn't mean it's going to change anything though.. that's how life is

Yes... And people's opinion's should be what their actions are. But, Bush's actions are not what his opinions are... So what he said today is pretty stupid, IMO.

Revival · 03-07-2002, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joeiss
Yes... And people's opinion's should be what their actions are. But, Bush's actions are not what his opinions are... So what he said today is pretty stupid, IMO.

So whatever someone believes should be a reality?

I believe that everyone should have good health -- doesn't mean it's going to happen.

Xantar · 03-07-2002, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joeiss

But, Bush's actions are not what his opinions are... So what he said today is pretty stupid, IMO.

I'm sorry, but if you think politicians should disregard the people's views and adjust themselves accordingly, you are doubly naïve. Politicians should have some opinions, yes, but they also have to be realistic. They are representatives of the people, and as such, they should take the public into account when considering their actions.

Revival · 03-07-2002, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Xantar
Never mind whether God has forgiven them or not. That's between Him and the individual people. Unless people are punished for their transgressions or prevented from committing further atrocities, all of civilization will collapse. And I'm pretty certain that God wouldn't want that.

That is exactly what I was trying to say, but I can't take a religious standpoint from this..