Big Fat Liar: Debunking Michael Moore

Professor S · 10-08-2003, 09:52 PM

Michael Moore is being hailed by the media as a latter day muck raker who is exposing the hypocracy and insidiousness of the Republican party. The facts that he does not advertise is that he is in fact a hippocrit and a LIAR, and what drives me nuts is that no one seems to be challenging Moore's hyperbolic and often completely fictitious claims.

Hippocracy you say? Yes, Michael Moore wears jeans and flannels and directed a video by Rage Against the Machine in which a homeless man refused his winnings from a gameshow, but this is all a very calculated part of his public image. The fact is that Michael Moore lives in an apartment in New York that cost well over 1 MILLION DOLLARS. Hmm, you would think with all of his self righteousness he would practice as he preaches, right? Guess not.

Lies Lies Lies. In Bowling for Columbine Michael Moore references a Lockheed Martin plant near Columbine High School that makes missiles for the US military, and even insinuates that it helped cause the violence that took place there. Now if that weren't enough of a stretch, the FACT is that the Lockheed Martin plant he referenced does not make military missiles. It makes rockets for satellite launches. Once again, the truth never stopped Moore from pushing his agenda.

There are many more examples of his yellowest of yellow "journalism", but I won't reference them here. If you are interested you can visit the following sites:

http://www.moorewatch.com

http://bowlingfortruth.com/moore/online/patriotact.htm

Now there may be some truth in what Michael Moore spouts off in the propoganda he calls "documentaries", but the question becomes "how can I tell the difference?" When he blatantly lies again and again to force his agenda on the unsuspecting populace, how can we believe anything he says when half of it is exaggerration of out and out lies? In the end he only hurts the cause that he pretends to champion.

Be warned that moorewatch is a pretty right wing site that becomes a victim of its own passion at times, much like Moore, but many of the points are quite valid and can shed some light on Moore's "facts"

Bowling for Truth is an excellent site (from what I saw) and the link will take you to a fantastic article by Jonah Goldberg, who I am becoming a big fan of, debunking the negative theories about the Patriot Act. He's even been a guest on the popular and very left wing Daily Show with Jon Stewart. He's the kind of conservative that I wish the Republican party would endorse, then maybe I would actually become a Republican.

Dylflon · 10-08-2003, 09:58 PM

Hm. Give Moore some credit. He does raise a lot of great points whether or not you agree with what he does.

But don't polititians lie to push their agenda?
It's not like Michael Moore is the only one to do this (if in fact he is doing it)

And just because he has a nice house doesn't mean he's a monster of some kind.

But in closure, if he is lying to push an agenda, he's not the only one. the American government does it. The Canadian government does too. It's not uncommon. It's not like he's some sort of innovator in the field of lying to the masses.

Professor S · 10-08-2003, 10:42 PM

I never said Moore was a monster, just a hippocrit and a liar. Moore likes to paint people with different views as monsters. I do not.

Do politicians lie? Sure. Does that excuse Moore? No. He pretends to be the champion of the truth, hence his TV shows name The Awful Truth, and talked about being a worker of "Non-Fiction in ficticious times" in his Oscar acceptance speech. How can we believe anything he says? If his points are based on LIES, then how valid are the points? The answer is they aren't. How can we differentiate the lies fom the truth? We can't.

His lies are very dangerous. More dangerous than you could imagine. He promotes using that awful cartoon in Bowling for Columbine as a SCHOOL SUPPLEMENT on his website, and even instructs TEACHERS HOW TO TEACH HISTORY WITH IT. Never mind that the cartoon is simplistic, promotes ignorance instead of intelligence and outright LIES os several occasions... did you know that the NRA was actually FOUNDED BY ABOLITIONISTS??? You wouldn't if you only saw his cartoon, the same one he wants taught in our schools.

His agenda is ignorance. He intentionally edits his material to prohibit ANY information that may show the other side of the coin. You are being manipulated and eating his bull**** with a spoon and loving it.

Check out the sites I posted, especially the one on the Patriot Act. You may never believe a word Moore says again. You'll find them enlightening and Moore's simplistic arguments increasingly insulting to your intelligence.

DeathsHand · 10-08-2003, 11:34 PM

someone says something about one person, then the other person says the same thing back...

1: You're lying!
2: No, YOU'RE lying!
1: YOU'RE lying and I can prove it! *proof*
2: That proof is just bullpooey and you're lying and I can prove it! *proof*
1: THAT INFORMATION IS FALSE YOU LYING BASTARD!
2: ALL LIES!!
Both: I'LL CUT YOU!!!

And that, my friend's is the world of politics...

Seth · 10-08-2003, 11:59 PM

"From my cold dead hands!"

Bowling for Columbine made me laugh through parts of it.

The crazy soy farmer with the magnum under his pillow. ahhh,

but ya, some of it's bull****.

Jonbo298 · 10-09-2003, 12:02 AM

I really like Michael Moore. It's always good to me to see someone who is outspoken and not afraid of politicians or the media.

I wish I could do something similar to Michael Moore in the future. I like being outspoken and not afraid of anyone.

But opinions/facts/lies about Michael Moore don't affect me. As long as he is outspoken, thats a + for me

Professor S · 10-09-2003, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathsHand

someone says something about one person, then the other person says the same thing back...

1: You're lying!
2: No, YOU'RE lying!
1: YOU'RE lying and I can prove it! *proof*
2: That proof is just bullpooey and you're lying and I can prove it! *proof*
1: THAT INFORMATION IS FALSE YOU LYING BASTARD!
2: ALL LIES!!
Both: I'LL CUT YOU!!!

And that, my friend's is the world of politics...

And your point would be we should just accept it? We should just sitr by while we are manipulated and fed bull**** like its a T-Bone steak? I'm afraid I'm not that quite cynical yet.

And bouncer, how can you tell what was bull**** and what wasn't? He made a documentary. A potrayal of the TRUTH. And he lied throughout. How are we expected to discern what is fact and what is fiction? We can't, and that his entire piece invalid.

Professor S · 10-09-2003, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonbo298

I really like Michael Moore. It's always good to me to see someone who is outspoken and not afraid of politicians or the media.

I wish I could do something similar to Michael Moore in the future. I like being outspoken and not afraid of anyone.

But opinions/facts/lies about Michael Moore don't affect me. As long as he is outspoken, thats a + for me

So as long as you're outspoken it doesn't matter what you say? He can just lie all he wants and it doesn't matter? Or is it as long as he's lying in favor of your ideals?

Dylflon · 10-09-2003, 12:20 AM

You know whats funny? What's NOT being taught in school. A lot of American schools are very selective about what they teach.

I was talking to GameMaster and his school isn't telling them a lot of things they should be telling them. Like how the French aiding the Americans during the American Revolution. And he wasn't taught about Russia's role in World War 2. He was also taught that the Natives were savages.

Jonbo298 · 10-09-2003, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Strangler

So as long as you're outspoken it doesn't matter what you say? He can just lie all he wants and it doesn't matter? Or is it as long as he's lying in favor of your ideals?

Jeez, I was never stating that if your outspoken and you only tell lies that I like the person. I was stating that Michael Moore's views are what I go for/believe in. So what if he lie's once in awhile. EVERYONE DOES.

You can bash Michael Moore all you want but it doesn't affect me. People lie all the time. People have their own views. Oh well.

Xantar · 10-09-2003, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonbo298

Jeez, I was never stating that if your outspoken and you only tell lies that I like the person. I was stating that Michael Moore's views are what I go for/believe in. So what if he lie's once in awhile. EVERYONE DOES.

It's not lying "once in a while." Take a look at that website. Not very much in Bowling for Columbine is very trustworthy. In fact, you can't really take it as a documentary of anything except perhaps Michael Moore's ego.

And it does matter if he lies. A documentary is supposed to be true. The fact that it's called a documentary means that people use it as evidence.

What if Tom Brokaw were to get on NBC Nightly News one day and knowingly report a completely false or misleading story? Would you just shrug and say, "Oh well. Everybody lies once in a while"?

The Duggler · 10-09-2003, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Strangler

When he blatantly lies again and again to force his agenda on the unsuspecting populace, how can we believe anything he says when half of it is exaggerration of out and out lies?[/i]

Hmmm, reminds me of somebody

Professor S · 10-09-2003, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ranzid

Hmmm, reminds me of somebody

Gee, you respond to my posts, which state FACTS, by insulting me in the topic heading and then trying to divert the attention to someone else besides Moore. If you were implying that I have lied, prove it. It you are implying that the president lied, then you are simply trying to change the topic of an subject that you can't win.

Understand that it is people like YOU who give liberals a bad name. Liberalism was not a bad thing at its inception, but has become the social gestapo of the 21st century. "Agree with us or you are a bad human being". How silly. Come to your senses and realize that you are also a victim of your own passions. There ARE valid opposing points of view and everyone that disagrees is not an evil bastard. The "white knight" syndrome that liberals have developed is doing more harm to your cause than help.

My post had nothing to do with the government, and I even stated (I assume you actually read my post) that there are plenty of realistic arguments and for Michaels Moore's generic points of view. What I am saying is that Michael Moore has chosen to ignore all of these and go for sensationalistic bull**** because it allows him to afford a nice apartment. He is a political vampire sucking on your zealouness so that he can make himself rich, not to mention that his lies and deceit invalidate any point he is attempting to make. Lies and deceit that evidently many of his supporters are quick to ignore as long as he keeps spouting garbage that is of a like mind.

If you are a liberal, and against the 2nd amendment, please do what Michael Moore does not. Research. Find the facts. Don't just be arrogant enough to believe that what you think is happening is what is REALLY happening.

Dylflon · 10-09-2003, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xantar

It's not lying "once in a while." Take a look at that website. Not very much in Bowling for Columbine is very trustworthy. In fact, you can't really take it as a documentary of anything except perhaps Michael Moore's ego.

And it does matter if he lies. A documentary is supposed to be true. The fact that it's called a documentary means that people use it as evidence.

What if Tom Brokaw were to get on NBC Nightly News one day and knowingly report a completely false or misleading story? Would you just shrug and say, "Oh well. Everybody lies once in a while"?

A lot of newscasters are lying. Well...not by choice. But mainly they're just leaving things out. You watched the war in Iraq on American TV and they showed soldiers giving food and securing oil fields. But if you see and Al Jazheera news cast (as i did) you'd see American soldiers shooting families who didn't cooperate. I'm not saying that the American military is evil i'm just saying that this is hiw it played out and nobody in America really knew. I'm sure the media leaves things out from time to time. Do you think they're really going to show things on the news that makes your country look bad?

The Duggler · 10-09-2003, 10:04 AM

Bah, look Strangler, who said I was liberal? See, I'm not like you, I don't see it all black in white and I don't put myself in one specific side. You say I give liberals a bad name? Well I could say the same thing about you and the Conservatives. I'm pretty sure that some of the stuff you said is true, but even if Michael Moore's stuff isn't all perfectly correct, I'm pretty sure most of it is. The right also has people like that, and you know it.

I'm not going to argue your points in this thread, because I'm sure you have more information and more knowledge than me, but I dare you to come to another forum and post this. It's not a liberal forum, it's pretty well balanced, and there is some pretty good posters in there from both the left and the right that could argue with you better than me. There is a lot of quality disscutions in there and I'm pretty sure you would like it. So what do you say? Wanna give it a try, or do you want to keep those kind of posts in here and get no substantial answers?

Anyways, I hope I see you there.

Sincerely,

http://www.rajahwwf.com/forum/index.php? in the off topic section.