Sega releasing good games... but are they being a bit TOO agressive?

[TheGame]

It seems to me that Sega is trying too hard right now to beat EA, and they are dooming themselves to failure.

Being a newcomer to the third party Market, don't you think they should try to make a bigger name for themselves before releasing so many "hit" titles?

For example, the sports games. NBA 2k2, NHL 2k2, and NFL 2k2 should be enough for a newcomer. But Sega thinks they should release NCAA Football and Basketball, a Volleyball game, a Soccer game, and a Tennis game...

Why?

I mean, if most people don't know (and trust) what the hell NFL 2k3 and NBA 2k3 are... why does Sega have this dumb-founded belief that NCAA 2k3 (basketball and football) will sell???

Not only that, they are purposly trying to compete with EA sports by releasing all thier sports games on the same days, and by having all the same games go online. I personally think this tactic make zero sense. EA wil be releasing franchises that millions have known and trusted for years, and Sega is deciding to release thier new franchises at the same time? Why?

There is NO logical answer Sega could give me. If they released earlier, it would make more sense. If they released later, it would make more sense... but on the exact same day? Not only that, chances are that Sega will spend more money on ads...

They have nothing to gain and everything to lose. I guarantee that not one game in Sega's 2k3 sport line-up will out-sell anything in in Ea's 2003 line-up.

As for the other games, Sega seems to be doing too much. They are acting like this year will be the end of the world, and they must get every franchise possible out.

I just think they should wait to get a bigger name before releasing so many games that wouldn't even sell good on Dreamcast.

Oh, and I haven't seen Sega sucseed financially at anything in years... so I can't imagine them doing it now

but anyways... what are your thoughts?

[Idiot]

Perhaps you haven't noticed that SEGA extends beyond bad sport sims and tired rehashes. EA has had it's day as the dominant third-party soft.co. Good thing too, as about 70% of what they produced was crap.

[TheGame]

Originally posted by Idiot
Perhaps you haven't noticed that SEGA extends beyond bad sport sims and tired rehashes.

You mean like Sonic Adventure 2 Battle, Shenume 2, Super Monkey Ball, Crazy Taxi 3, Virtual Fighter 4, and Jet Set Raido?

EA has had it's day as the dominant third-party soft.co. Good thing too, as about 70% of what they produced was crap.

70% eh?

So, for every 3 good games plublished by EA I name, you can name 7 crap ones? I like Challenges... if ya want to battle, tell me

[Idiot]

Super Monkey Ball and Jet Set Radio were original titles, and although SEGA are sequel mongers, I don't remember EA producing daring concepts such as Samba De Amigo, Phantasy Star Online, Chu Chu Rocket, Shenmue, the original Sonics or Skies Of Arcadia.
As for 70% of EA games being crap, well EA's sports line up is hardly of outstanding quality. I can't remember when the FIFA play mechanics were revised, can you? I'm not brewing for a fight, but SEGA beats EA hands down.

[Perfect Stu]

Madden NFL (series)
NHL (series)
Tiger Woods (series)
Timesplitters (series)
Medal of Honor (series)
007: Agent Under Fire (it wasn't good...but it wasn't crap )
SSX (series)
NBA Street
F1 (series)
Nascar (series)
FIFA (series)
SimGolf
The Sims (series)
SimCity (series)
Sim Theme Park

I'm looking foward to your 35 crap games, and I'm only counting each series as 1 game...

[gekko]

What makes you think Sega is really trying to beat EA? Remember, Sega has become a 3rd party, now the only way they profit is by selling games. And you tell me how you get more profit, release 10 games every year, or 3 one year, and 10 the next? Sega is looking to make money, and they do that by releasing all their games right away.

And Sega is far from a newcomer. And although EA has has more sports series' established for a longer period of time, we're talking Sega/EA here, not Sega Sports/EA Sports.

If Sega wants to beat out EA, like you said, releasing all these games this year is the way to do it. And Sega has a lot more games than you care to name, and a reputation for having good games. And if you want to compare companies, add me to the Sega list. EA has some good games, but they are mainly EA Sports games that pretty much just change the title screen every year to add the new year on it. As for EA Games, they have some sweet ass games, but most aren't that great. Sega on the other hand, has the same sweet ass sports games, but in sports EA doesn't have and even multiple games per sport, but more importantly, the non-sports games kick so much ass.

Let's look at some of the great titles Sega has produced over the years. Unlike EA, Sega has explored every genre of games, and produced quality titles:

Crazy Taxi, Samba de Amigo, Super Monkey Ball, Shenmue, Chu Chu rocket, Skies of Arcadia, Sonic, Phantasy Star, Phantasy Star Online, Daytona USA, Virtua Fighter, Virtua Cop, Jet Set Radio, NiGHTS, Vectorman, Seaman, World Series Baseball, Home Run King, Soccer Slam, Virtua Striker, NFL 2K, NHL 2K, Joe Montana Football, NBA 2K, Virtua Tennis, Virtua Cop, House of the Dead, Typing of the Dead, Sega GT, Ooga Booga, Rez, Ecco the Dolphin, 18-Wheeler, Alien Front Online, Headhunter, Space Channel 5, Propeller Arena, Toe Jam & Earl, Virtua Athlete, Streets of Rage, Outrun, Afterburner, Shinobi, Shining Force, Bug, Clockwork Knight, Golden Axe, Panzer Dragoon, Gun Valkyrie... to name a few. They have made much more original titles than EA, and they have ventured into many more genres.

But of course, Sega has the best arcade division around. Let's not forget that.

[Jin]

Here's one for ya Perfect Stu...

1.)1503 AD
2.)5 Alarm Trivia
3.)American McGee's Alice
4.)Bank Buster Lotto
5.)Battlefield 1942
6.)Buffy the Vampire Slayer
7.)Bunny Luv
8.)Daily Tarot
9.)Double Deuce Poker
10.)Emperor: Battle for Dune
11.)FOF 2002
12.)Freedom Force
13.)Global Ops
14.)Gooaal!
15.)The Great Pogini
16.)Hit for the Cycle
17.)The Simpsons Road Rage
18.)Meteor Madness
19.)Pirates -- The Legend of Black Kat
20.)Pocket Quiz
21.)Pooh and Tigger's Hunny Safari
22.)Pooh's Party Game
23.)Pro 3-Point
24.)Sid Meier's SimGolf
25.)Sim Theme Park (Well, I didn't like it at least)
26.)It's Outta Here!
27.)SledStorm
28.)Knockout Kings
29.)Slingo
30.)Street Slider
31.)Sub Command
32.)Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 2002
33.)Treasure Trivia
34.)Ultima Online: Lord Blackthorn's Revenge
35.)Undying

*Ones that are Red are crossed off

[DeathsHand]

I thought I heard lots of people say that Alice and Simgolf were good...

And I'd start running... cuz when Stu sees you listed Simgolf as bad errr

[gekko]

Sim Golf kicks ass!

[Jin]

Originally posted by DeathsHand
I thought I heard lots of people say that Alice and Simgolf were good...

And I'd start running... cuz when Stu sees you listed Simgolf as bad errr

Fine then, I'll cross those 2 off. So now it's at 33.

[TheGame]

Originally posted by gekko
What makes you think Sega is really trying to beat EA? Remember, Sega has become a 3rd party, now the only way they profit is by selling games. And you tell me how you get more profit, release 10 games every year, or 3 one year, and 10 the next? Sega is looking to make money, and they do that by releasing all their games right away.

If they are looking to make money, why would they release so many unmarketable games at once?

I think they should release nothing but super-high quality games so they can get popular with everyybody who didn't own a dreamcast, THEN start releasing the no-name games when people start trusting the developer name more. They should concentrating on making these ports and a few new games as good as possible, THEN start releasing a bazillion games.

I doubt any of the games will get the great singular marketing that Sonic got. So how are they going to sell? Expect most of the games to be no better than Super Monkey Ball or Crazy Taxi on the sales charts.

And Sega is far from a newcomer. And although EA has has more sports series' established for a longer period of time, we're talking Sega/EA here, not Sega Sports/EA Sports.

The vast majority of gamers haven't owned a "living" Sega system for the last 7 years. On the same hand, the vast majority of gamers have owned a system that got decent support from EA.

So in that sense, Sega is in fact a newcomer. Like I said in my first post, they are releasing NCAA 2k3 on systems before NFL 2k2 has even made a big name for itself?

Makes no sense... IMO they should release games that they KNOW will sell, then when Sega's brand name gets extremly popular, they can start releasing the Panzer Dragons, College Sports, and the Soccer Slams so they can know it will sell.

Sega needs to grow into thier shoes before they can wear them. Sega is no more popular than Capcom, Konami, Square, Rare, EA, Nntendo, or even Activision... yet they have more games being released this year then all of them... not only that, the games they are releasing are a mix of established franchises and purely non-popular no-name games. What do they expect to get from this?

If Sega wants to beat out EA, like you said, releasing all these games this year is the way to do it. And Sega has a lot more games than you care to name, and a reputation for having good games. And if you want to compare companies, add me to the Sega list. EA has some good games, but they are mainly EA Sports games that pretty much just change the title screen every year to add the new year on it. As for EA Games, they have some sweet ass games, but most aren't that great. Sega on the other hand, has the same sweet ass sports games, but in sports EA doesn't have and even multiple games per sport, but more importantly, the non-sports games kick so much ass.

I can't deny that Sega's quality of games are higher... But just because thier games are quality it doesn't mean they will sell. They should have learned this lesson from Dreamcast!

For example, JSRF, Crazy Taxi, and Super Monkey Ball may all be quality games. But, did they out-sell Agent Under Fire? Nope. Why? Because the name "Sega" couldn't drive these games to sell good enough, while the name "Bond" alone out-sold it. Has nothing to do with Quality.

Like I was saying, release the super quality/popular games now, and when the name "Sega" becomes big enough to drive sales (which it will anyway, but they are wasting time/quality now) they should take advantage ofthis to release more quality games and make more and more franchises bigger.

Let's look at some of the great titles Sega has produced over the years. Unlike EA, Sega has explored every genre of games, and produced quality titles:

Crazy Taxi, Samba de Amigo, Super Monkey Ball, Shenmue, Chu Chu rocket, Skies of Arcadia, Sonic, Phantasy Star, Phantasy Star Online, Daytona USA, Virtua Fighter, Virtua Cop, Jet Set Radio, NiGHTS, Vectorman, Seaman, World Series Baseball, Home Run King, Soccer Slam, Virtua Striker, NFL 2K, NHL 2K, Joe Montana Football, NBA 2K, Virtua Tennis, Virtua Cop, House of the Dead, Typing of the Dead, Sega GT, Ooga Booga, Rez, Ecco the Dolphin, 18-Wheeler, Alien Front Online, Headhunter, Space Channel 5, Propeller Arena, Toe Jam & Earl, Virtua Athlete, Streets of Rage, Outrun, Afterburner, Shinobi, Shining Force, Bug, Clockwork Knight, Golden Axe, Panzer Dragoon, Gun Valkyrie... to name a few. They have made much more original titles than EA, and they have ventured into many more genres.

All the bolded games 1) I never heard of or 2) were introduced on Dreamcast or Saturn...

How many multi million sellers do they have on Ps2, GCN, X-Box, Playstation, AGB, or N64??? None I can think of. Thier name is simply not as big as it was in the genesis days. Plus, most of those games are new to peeps. I'm not doubting the quality, but the fact is "Sega" won't sell them.

Good Scores in Magizines might sell tem, a good advertizing campang might sell them, but the name Sega? Highly doubtful

But of course, Sega has the best arcade division around. Let's not forget that.

I think EA's PC work can make up for that

But anyway, bottom line:

Sega is a great developer, but I don't like seeing them putting themselves in financial trouble just to competewith EA for the biggest third party.

Games like Shenume, NCAA Football/Basketball, JSRF, Panzer Dragon, Monkey Ball, and Soccer Slam can just wait... because if Sega makes a big enough name for themselves with Sonic, Virtual Fighter, Arcade games, and even thier main sports line up... waiting that extra year to release these no-name games will be worth it because tey will sell at least 4x as much as it sold in this situation.

[gekko]

Man, you can twist things around to make it go your way.

Simple philisophy,more games = more sales. EA releases tons of low-quality games in a short period of time. They make money. Get the point?

Crazy Taxi and Super Monkey Ball on the sales charts is what people want. Super Monkey Ball was one of the best selling Gamecube games at launch, and it did far better than expected for a game not many people were expecting to be any good. And Crazy Taxi was the 3rd best selling title on Dreamcast, and also had a very sucessful sequel. That's what most companies strive for.

Well you gotta remember, the vast majority of Sega fans don't care that they haven't had a living system in the last 7 years. I guess you must not have realized the huge amount of high quality games that were on Saturn and DC. I would easily trade my Xbox, PS2, and PSX for another DC. Guess what? 50 top-quality titles in 2 yeara and then no more support is better than sitting here with today's systems and get very few quality titles over the course of 5-6 years. Also, don't forget those vast majority of Sega fans are now split up between 3 consoles. Word of mouth is the best way to sell a game, and Sega has that from all of their fans.

And NCAA 2K3 is a new game, for this coming year. NFL 2K2 has been out for almost a year now. You are making no sense at all. NFL 2K2 isn't a new game, it was out on DC a long ass time ago.

And don't even get me started on Panzer Dragoon. People have been wanting this game for years. Don't try to say it's not a marketable game. And Soccer Slam is the only arcade soccer game out right now, so why not release it? Let's put it this way, Sega isn't going to make any more money releasing Soccer Slam in 5 years, as they will releasing it now.

And Sega has the ability to release all these games at one time, because they own tons of development studios which are always working on games. And let's just remember how many no-name games EA has, and how many never really sell a ton. You seem to have some twisted idea that by Sega becoming really popular making Sonic games, all of a sudden Beach Spikers will sell like crazy. It doesn't work that way. You need to put the game on the market, and if people like it, they will buy the next game. EA has tons of established franchises like Madden, but that didn't help them sell Simpsons' Road Rage at all, did it? Square and Nintendo are pretty much the only companies that sell on name alone. And guess what? They all make the same games over and over again. Square always makes RPGs, so people assume the new one will be good. Nintendo, well, they have established franchises in a few genres, but you rarely see them step out of that, like with Conker, and it didn't sell that well.

As for Bond, yes, the name sells. Not to me however, cause the second it went from Rare to EA, i didn't think "Wow, EA, I'll buy it" like this thread tends to believe, I was doubting the whole Bond series. Didn't think EA would make nearly as good of game as Goldeneye, and they didn't. But let's not forget, Jet Set Radio was popular, but not one of the all-time best sellers. The sequel was released on one console. super Monkey Ball was a game most doubted, and was released on one console. And Crazy Taxi, you're talking about a port of a game that's already years old, with no new features. Hell, it already had a sequel and a few spin-offs before that. If you compare Crazy Taxi as a whole, DC and ports, it killed Bond.

Well first of all, Sega has no games on N64 or PSX. Second, they have only released a few titles, none of which were exver expected to be multi-million sellers. EA has been there since the start, Sega hasn't even had time to release their entire Sega Sports lineup on these consoles yet. Give them time. Rez, Gun Valkyrie, don't tell me you expected much from these.

[Jin]

When most gamers go out to get a game they buy it either because they played it at their friends house, they like the boxart/backing and think it might be a good game, or they read a review in a mag or online. I don't know anyone that'll go to Best Buy looking for games by Konami and won't get it if it's made by Capcom.

TheGame, your whole arguement about the ported games being on either the Saturn or Dreamcast made no sense, because you later went on to say that most people haven't owned a Sega console in 7 years. So wouldn't it make sense to port hits that people weren't able to play before and make some cash? If anything, porting classic games would only help to get their name out there, since you seem to think people have just forgotten about them.

[TheGame]

Originally posted by Jin
When most gamers go out to get a game they buy it either because they played it at their friends house, they like the boxart/backing and think it might be a good game, or they read a review in a mag or online. I don't know anyone that'll go to Best Buy looking for games by Konami and won't get it if it's made by Capcom.

Uh, yes they will. That has to be the worst comment I ever heard.

In other words, you think that every person goes to a game store clueless about what they like and what they are going to buy?

Of corse, hype can sell a game regardless of a developer... but the developer name plays a HUGE factor. Compare WWF Attitude's sales to WWF WM2000's sales... what made the difference? Both games were very hyped up, and both games supported the WWF licence, but WM200 won because of who developed it.

Just like the difference between:
Goldeneye and Tomorrow Never Dies
Madden 2002 and NFL 2k2
NBA Live and NBA 2k2
Tony Hawk and ESPN Skateboarding
1080 and ESPN Snowboarding
wCw Mayhem and WCW/nWo revenge

TheGame, your whole arguement about the ported games being on either the Saturn or Dreamcast made no sense, because you later went on to say that most people haven't owned a Sega console in 7 years. So wouldn't it make sense to port hits that people weren't able to play before and make some cash? If anything, porting classic games would only help to get their name out there, since you seem to think people have just forgotten about them.

Umm... wtf are you talking about?

If you are saying I said that porting games is a bad thing, quote me.

I simply said that they are releasing too many games that didn't even get great sales on DC or Saturn... so why would they expect it to do any better on another system where they are NOT the first party, and they DON'T have the advantages of self-promotion?

Right now, I simply believe the name "Sega" isn't big enough to ship certain games. The name "Sonic" and "Virtual Fighter" are big enough... and thier sports line up (with the exception of college and NHL) are big enough... but Nobody would buy games like Soccer Slam and Monkey Ball based off of the developer name.

[TheGame]

Originally posted by gekko
Man, you can twist things around to make it go your way.

Simple philisophy,more games = more sales. EA releases tons of low-quality games in a short period of time. They make money. Get the point?

EA's name alone can make sales, and EA is the biggest third party producer and seller on the market... What is Sega?

EA is at Nintendo's level, they can release crap with the developer name and a licence on it and it will sell... do you REALLY want Sega to become this?

Crazy Taxi and Super Monkey Ball on the sales charts is what people want. Super Monkey Ball was one of the best selling Gamecube games at launch, and it did far better than expected for a game not many people were expecting to be any good. And Crazy Taxi was the 3rd best selling title on Dreamcast, and also had a very sucessful sequel. That's what most companies strive for.

Well you gotta remember, the vast majority of Sega fans don't care that they haven't had a living system in the last 7 years. I guess you must not have realized the huge amount of high quality games that were on Saturn and DC. I would easily trade my Xbox, PS2, and PSX for another DC. Guess what? 50 top-quality titles in 2 yeara and then no more support is better than sitting here with today's systems and get very few quality titles over the course of 5-6 years. Also, don't forget those vast majority of Sega fans are now split up between 3 consoles. Word of mouth is the best way to sell a game, and Sega has that from all of their fans.

Well, this can help Sega, or it can hurt Sega. The Re-hashes of games that sold well on DC will be great for the non-DC owners, but they will suck to DC owners. Like Sonic Adventure 2 Battle, I'm sure that most DC owners didn't buy thet game again... same with Crazy Taxi.

But you are right when it comes to non-DC ports, Sega fans will eat them up just like they did on DC, with a lil added sales for peeps who didn't own DC.

And NCAA 2K3 is a new game, for this coming year. NFL 2K2 has been out for almost a year now. You are making no sense at all. NFL 2K2 isn't a new game, it was out on DC a long ass time ago.

NCAA 2k2 was on Dreamcast... this is it's second installment, and it's first didn't sell well on DC.

And don't even get me started on Panzer Dragoon. People have been wanting this game for years. Don't try to say it's not a marketable game. And Soccer Slam is the only arcade soccer game out right now, so why not release it? Let's put it this way, Sega isn't going to make any more money releasing Soccer Slam in 5 years, as they will releasing it now.

In 5 years GCN, X-Box, and Ps2 will have bigger userbases, and Sega will have a mch bigger name on the third party ticket... Soccer Slam would sell MUCH better if they waited to release it, period.

And Sega has the ability to release all these games at one time, because they own tons of development studios which are always working on games. And let's just remember how many no-name games EA has, and how many never really sell a ton. You seem to have some twisted idea that by Sega becoming really popular making Sonic games, all of a sudden Beach Spikers will sell like crazy. It doesn't work that way. You need to put the game on the market, and if people like it, they will buy the next game. EA has tons of established franchises like Madden, but that didn't help them sell Simpsons' Road Rage at all, did it?

LOL, first of all, I'm not doubting Sega' ability to release all these games, just like I wouldn't doubt Konami's or Capcom's ability... but why release them all if they have better potiential sales in the future? Sega isn't an established third party with games that Nintendo or Sony gamers have been buying for years... are they?

Second of all, Madden didn't help sell road rage, but Madden (along side Fifa) helped NBA Live, NHL, NCAA Football, and March Madness become huge franchises... Madden's old success is the ONLY reason EA is the biggest third party developer, so each and every sale EA gets is owed to Madden.

Square and Nintendo are pretty much the only companies that sell on name alone. And guess what? They all make the same games over and over again. Square always makes RPGs, so people assume the new one will be good. Nintendo, well, they have established franchises in a few genres, but you rarely see them step out of that, like with Conker, and it didn't sell that well.

Nice generalization.

As for Bond, yes, the name sells. Not to me however, cause the second it went from Rare to EA, i didn't think "Wow, EA, I'll buy it" like this thread tends to believe, I was doubting the whole Bond series. Didn't think EA would make nearly as good of game as Goldeneye, and they didn't. But let's not forget, Jet Set Radio was popular, but not one of the all-time best sellers. The sequel was released on one console. super Monkey Ball was a game most doubted, and was released on one console. And Crazy Taxi, you're talking about a port of a game that's already years old, with no new features. Hell, it already had a sequel and a few spin-offs before that. If you compare Crazy Taxi as a whole, DC and ports, it killed Bond.

The problem is... Sega can't compare to EA as far as sales, period. JSRF didn't get as popular as you think, Monkey Ball was released on the system with the weakest launch, of course it will get sales, nothing near the word "good". Crazy Taxi is a joke.

Not only that, I'd buy Bond over any of those games, JSRF is the closest thing to bond, and it still didn't out-sell bond.

Well first of all, Sega has no games on N64 or PSX. Second, they have only released a few titles, none of which were exver expected to be multi-million sellers. EA has been there since the start, Sega hasn't even had time to release their entire Sega Sports lineup on these consoles yet. Give them time. Rez, Gun Valkyrie, don't tell me you expected much from these.

I expect Sega to build up as a developer, and not just walk in like they are #1 before they even get a name.

I expect a lot in terms of quality (which Sega has yet to deliver). but to me some of the games Sega releases are just a waist of time.