BREAKING: Clinton pwns Obama

[GameMaster]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/...sts/index.html

Originally Posted by Hillary Clinton

"For everyone here in Ohio and across America who's been ever been counted out but refused to be knocked out, for everyone who has stumbled but stood right back up, and for everyone who works hard and never gives up -- this one is for you," Clinton said before supporters in Columbus.

"You know what they say," she said. "As Ohio goes, so goes the nation. Well, this nation's coming back and so is this campaign."

[Neo]

This is good for the Republicans.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Neo

This is good for the Republicans.

Well thats arguable. I continuing Dem primary will keep a lot of media focus on both candidates and away from McCain. McCain will be able to concentrate on the general, the question is: is anyone listening when there is a knock down drag out on the other side of the isle?

And it will get ugly now. Clinton is finally doing what she should have down in the first place, and REALLY attack Obama's inexperience and naive comments, especially when it comes to foriegn policy.

If Hillary wins, I think she has a great chance to beat McCain, but I think McCain would destroy Obama in a general. Obama's rhetoric is already starting to wear thin on his "hope based" support. Thats problem when you run on emotion and not issues. When the rush wears off, all those inspiring statements quickly become cliche.

And imagine how McCain could attack Obama in ways that Clinton can't? On taxes? On foreign policy? On experience (which matters much more non-democrats)? My only worry with McCain against Obama is if he takes a bad turn in health, as his speech seems to have slowed of late. The age concern could be deadly.

[Neo]

Every head-to-head matchup I've seen shows that Obama would beat McCain, but McCain would trounce Hillary. She doesn't exactly have the ability to grow her base of support since half of this country absolutely despises her and would not vote for her under any circumstances.

While it's true that Obama's inexperience and perceived Muslim ties may eventually catch up to him, that's all speculation at this point. I'm basing my opinions on the currently available data.

Put McCain on a stage against Obama, and it will make McCain appear even older than he really is.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Neo

Every head-to-head matchup I've seen shows that Obama would beat McCain, but McCain would trounce Hillary. She doesn't exactly have the ability to grow her base of support since half of this country absolutely despises her and would not vote for her under any circumstances.

While it's true that Obama's inexperience and perceived Muslim ties may eventually catch up to him, that's all speculation at this point. I'm basing my opinions on the currently available data.

Put McCain on a stage against Obama, and it will make McCain appear even older than he really is.

These are polls taken before the general election, meaning they are worthless when comparing two members of different parties.

McCain will go after Obama is ways that Hillary can't out of fear of alienating her base. McCain will have no such concerns and it will be ugly. America is not a liberal nation, and Obama is the most liberal senator there is and his state and national record reflect that. The National Journal even wrote a study on it. McCain will have no problem going after Obamas record on taxes, social issues, etc.

He's already shown to be vulnerable to national security issues with Hillary's red phone commercial. Imagine what McCain can do when he's even more hawkish than Clinton?

In the genral election, its going to be a very different story if Obama wins.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0308/8843.html

If attacks by Clinton work, how more will they work coming from someone who actually disagrees with him?

[The Germanator]

Fuck Ohio. They always fuck everything up. I hate playing shows there and driving through the state. It sucks.

[Neo]

Originally Posted by Professor S

These are polls taken before the general election, meaning they are worthless when comparing two members of different parties.

I don't know what this means, they're just as valid as any other polls and are generally accurate. Do you mean polls taken before the primaries? Polls taken before the election match up pretty well. And the "half this country hates Hillary" portion has been true for a long time. Much harder to reverse that than it is to bring down Obama.

Fuck Ohio. They always fuck everything up. I hate playing shows there and driving through the state. It sucks.

The Germanator: "F U Ohio, F U!!"

Ohio: "F.....Me??"

Ohio: *thinks about it*

Ohio: "NO! F U!!!

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Neo

I don't know what this means, they're just as valid as any other polls and are generally accurate. Do you mean polls taken before the primaries? Polls taken before the election match up pretty well. And the "half this country hates Hillary" portion has been true for a long time. Much harder to reverse that than it is to bring down Obama.

It means exactly what I described further down in my post. They are polls based on a man who has not had to defend his past voting record or political beliefs, because his current opponent does not disagree with him.

Obama rarely talks about issues, and in fact, instructs his campaign workers to avoid the issues and concentrate on such specific topics as hopes and feelings.

Clinton can't say that her medical plan is far superior to Obama's and point out how crazy his plan is and get much leverage out of it because their plans are almost identical. McCain will spotlight that issue as his plan IS completely different.

Clinton can't come out and attack Obama on taxes, because they pretty much exactly the same on tazes. McCain will win hands down on this issue.

Clinton can't point out that Obama was determined to be the most liberal senator, because the Dem base LIKES that he is the most liberal. McCain will reference that journal article consistently and in high profile venues.

I'm not saying that the polls are inaccurate as of what people think today, but Obama has not had any kind of a sportlight put on his shallow campaign and leftist voting record as yet, and McCain and the republican party will have no problem exposing every nook and cranny of his past and present opinions and votes.

Thats why I say those polls are meaningless, because they are based on people's emotional reactions to a personality that can't be touched in the primaries, but the ideas and record behind the personality will be fully exposed in the general election. If Obama wins, expect those polls you speak of to change significantly if McCain remains in good health.

[Neo]

While it's true Obama has weak points which can be exploited, I don't believe he's any more vulnerable than Hillary is. They both have liberal policies in mind which are open to being attacked. Obama has the additional problem of inexperience, but Hillary has her own problems with her "Clinton baggage." If Obama goes into the debates he'll at least have a swell of support to act as a buffer. Hillary, OTOH, has reached her ceiling and has nowhere to go but down. She's far less likely to win over any additional independents and Republicans than Obama is. I see the odds favoring him.

Speaking of McCain, who does everyone think he will choose as his running mate? I predict Charlie Crist or Mark Sanford.

[Bond]

Originally Posted by Neo

Speaking of McCain, who does everyone think he will choose as his running mate? I predict Charlie Crist or Mark Sanford.

Crist seems the most plausible.

Personally, I'm hoping for Powell or Rice.

[Professor S]

Neo, I guess I'm thinking more about past record than current policy. Clinton is left leaning in her record, but Obama's state and national senate record would make Noam Chomski blush.

But you're correct, in current policy, they are almost identical.

[Jason1]

This has been discussed at length but in case you missed my opinions before...

I think Obama has a much better chance of beating Mcain in the general election, and I know I saw someone on CNN say awhile back, and I quote "The Republicans are secretly praying that Clinton wins the primary" Not that this necessairly gives my views any more credibility, but I tend to agree.

[Professor S]

Here is why Obama is a dead man in the general election:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...n2369157.shtml

Specifically the part where he voted to not have medical care given to abortions that survive. Essentially, that opinion states that even when a child is out of the womb, and still living, it is not a human being and may be left to die because the INTENT was to kill it. So intent is what matters, not the reality that if this were a premature baby of the same developmental stage, every effort both mandated by ethics, morality and LAW would be made to save it. Its an enabling of infanticide through negligence and is disgusting.

Can you imagine the mental picture made when national ads are broadcast about this issue? How many centrist Obama supporters would run from his campaign?

He's a dead man in the general election, IMO.

[Jason1]

Originally Posted by Professor S

Specifically the part where he voted to not have medical care given to abortions that survive. Essentially, that opinion states that even when a child is out of the womb, and still living, it is not a human being and may be left to die because the INTENT was to kill it.

So? I agree with that. And I think any normal Pro-Choice viewing person would also.

This is America, abortions are legal, and conservatives need to just stop whining about it.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Jason1

So? I agree with that. And I think any normal Pro-Choice viewing person would also.

This is America, abortions are legal, and conservatives need to just stop whining about it.

Actually, you're wrong on several accounts, and not just on moral and logical grounds which I won't address on this post.

1) All abortions are not legal, and partial birth have been happily outlawed for a few years now.

2) Most centrist to right wing people are against late term abortion when specifically asked about it, for obvious reasons. The partial birth ban was easily passed.

I'm center-right and I'm pro-choice as well, but late term abortuion makes me sick as I consider it legalized murder and the thought of a failed abortion or better named... a BABY..., LIVING ON ITS OWN outside of its mother's womb, on a doctor's table being left to die makes my stomach churn.

None of my thoughts on election outcomes are based on my affiliations, but instead of what has been a historically centrist voter base that has decided elections, and there will be MANY centrist independents who will be shocked and disgusted by Obama's voting record on this issue.