Senator Durbin (D) Compares Gitmo to Nazis

[Bond]

White House calls Gitmo remarks reprehensible

June 16, 2005

BY NEDRA PICKLER ASSOCIATED PRESS

WASHINGTON-- The White House said a senator's comparison of American interrogators at Guantanamo Bay to Nazis, Soviet gulags and Khmer Rouge leader Pol Pot was reprehensible and a disservice to those serving in the military.

White House press secretary Scott McClellan said it is "beyond belief" that Illinois Sen. Dick Durbin would compare treatment of dangerous enemy combatants at Guantanamo Bay to the death of millions of innocent people by oppressive regimes.

"Our men and women in uniform go out of their way to treat detainees humanely, and they go out of their way to uphold the values and the laws that we hold so dear in this country," McClellan said.

Source: Chicago Sun-Times

When your party's number two senator begins to compare Gitmo to a freaking Soviet gulag you know you have a problem.

By the way, if you don't know what a gulag was you can read this: "Conditions in the camps were extremely harsh. Prisoners received inadequate food rations and insufficient clothing, which made it difficult to endure the severe weather and the long working hours; sometimes the inmates were physically abused by camp guards. As a result, the death rate from exhaustion and disease in the camps was high."

[Professor S]

BTW, just so you know, the conditions at Gitmo that Durbin compared to Nazi Germany, Soviet Gulag and Pol Friggin' Pot to were the following:

Uncomfortably high temperatures that made inmates sweat
Uncomfortably low temperatures that made inmates shiver
The loud playing of rap music.

Wow. You would almost think we were fighting a war or something.

[Seth]

Dunno, I've heard some crazy **** about Guantomino Bay.

...and I'm sure there's a lot we don't know about. meh. I wouldn't want to make any accusations about the prison cuz I really don't know enough about it.

[Stonecutter]

This from Crain's Chicago Business

By Greg Hinz
June 17, 2005
So, the Rush Limbaughs of the world have decided that it's time to
submit Dick Durbin to their version of shock and awe. They say he
ought to back off, apologize, even resign for criticizing the way in
which America treats foreign detainees at a camp at Guantanamo Bay,
Cuba.

Give me a break. There is something worth protesting here. But it's
not Mr. Durbin, who is guilty, at most, of hyperbole. Rather it's a
conservative political establishment that just won't recognize that
George W. Bush sold America a bill of goods in Iraq. They're just
trying to change the subject from that ugly truth.

Let me concede up front that Mr. Durbin, the senior senator from
Illinois and the number-two Democrat in the Senate, notched up the
rhetoric in likening what's happening at Guantanamo to Adolph Hitler's
Nazis and Soviet Gulags. But name me a politician anywhere in
Washington these days who doesn't use strong words.

The real question is whether the senator was justified in making a
target of what Mr. Bush is doing in Cuba. And on that, he's absolutely
right.

To refresh the conservatives' minds, Mr. Bush asserts that America has
the legal right to snatch anyone from any place in the world and lock
them up for as long as he wants, without review from American courts,
international groups or anyone else. (Fortunately, American courts
have partially dissented).

The Bush Administration has asserted that none of those folks have to
be prosecuted. They've balked at releasing citizens of Australia and
other American allies, even when their governments have so requested.
They've held children. It is quite possible they're holding some
totally innocent people.

Now, war is not pretty. Some of the above may be defensible. But it is
debatable. Mistreating people, some possibly innocent, in a harsh
prison forever is not an Illinois value.

Nor is it an Illinois value to take a person who might possess some
intelligence of possible value, stake them out naked on the ground,
turn up an air-conditioner until they're shaking with cold, play
ear-splitting music, and watch them defecate and urinate on
themselves. That, in fact, was the conduct Mr. Durbin was protesting.

Andy McKenna, the chairman of the Illinois Republican Party, released
a statement calling Mr. Durbin "mean-spirited" and demanding that he
"defend those Illinoisans who are, or have, sacrificed in the nation's
service."

He did, Andy. He did by arguing that America doesn't torture people,
whatever some leaders may want. And besides, with former Gov. George
Ryan's trial coming up, don't you have better things to do than
issuing misleading statements to please the White House?

The fact is, conservatives pounce with all four feet every time Mr.
Durbin or anyone else says much anything else on what Mr. Bush calls
the war on terror because they can't defend what's really happened.

America got hood-winked into Iraq. There were no weapons of mass
destruction, any more than there are enough troops there now or any
real hope of getting them home anytime soon.

So far, it's cost us 1,700-plus American lives, and more than $300
billion. If I were a conservative commentator, I'd rather talk about
Mr. Durbin's hyperbole, too.

[gekko]

Originally Posted by The Strangler

BTW, just so you know, the conditions at Gitmo that Durbin compared to Nazi Germany, Soviet Gulag and Pol Friggin' Pot to were the following:

Uncomfortably high temperatures that made inmates sweat
Uncomfortably low temperatures that made inmates shiver
The loud playing of rap music.

Wow. You would almost think we were fighting a war or something.

Uncomfortably high temperatures? They came from Afghanistan and Iraq. They have high temps for most of the year. I'm stationed in the Mojave desert, I sweat every time I walk outside, why don't people complain that I'm being abused?

Uncomfortably low temperatures? The desert gets unbearably cold. They are used to it. So is every Canadian on this board. Do you feel mistreated by living in Canada?

There's a lot of people who voluntarily listen to very loud rap music. Oh no, how inhumane!

Give me a break. Gitmo has the lightest interrogation methods I've ever seen. The people complaining know nothing about interrogation, or POW treatment. Why the hell is anyone giving them the time of day to speak their minds? What has our country come to where we no longer go to anyone who is an expert on the topic, instead we listen to the guys who we are in office only because they promised lower taxes?

[Fox 6]

Originally Posted by gekko

Uncomfortably low temperatures? The desert gets unbearably cold. They are used to it. So is every Canadian on this board. Do you feel mistreated by living in Canada?

HAHAHA if thats not stereotyping I dont know what that is.
Actually it can get pretty warm here. Its not as cold as many people suggest. The winters are pretty bad in the interior, but i and the others from the valley havent really had a winter like that for a while.

[Typhoid]

Gekko, that, is possibly, the most closed minded thing I have ever read a poster say. But it gave me a laugh.


Like Foxxy said, it gets hot in the west. We have a f*cking desert. And over here, it maybe only gets down to about -10c (MAYBE) in the Winter, and in the Summer, the average temperature around here, is probably close to about 30c.


So cold. I think my igloo is melting. I better get my dogsled to relocate me near some maple syrup trees that I can fashion into good hockey sticks and fake teeth.

[Crono]

Well I know you coastal Canadians have it warm, but for the rest of Canada, the stereotype is true. Have you guys ever experienced 3 weeks straight of -30 to -35 C? I have. Not fun... and honestly I dont think the prisoners would even experience anything like it. Cold my ass.

[Professor S]

How the Hell did this go from a thread about GITMO to a thread about how cold it is in Friggin' Canada?

Canada is ****ing COLD, mother****er! I lived in Toronto for almost 3 months in the late winter/early spring and I almost lost my balls to frostbite.

As for the article that Stonecutter posted, it was a heroic attempt at turning Durbin's offensive and rediculous rhetoric back at the Republicans, but it fails on shallow logical analysis. The fact is that if Durbin didn't make such rediculous claims there wouldn't be anything for the Republicans to rightfully complain about. The Republican party has been demonized by the Democrats for years, with Howard Dean, the head of the DNC, even calling Republicans "EVIL". Please excuse the Republican party if they wish to defend themselves against such assinine and childish insults.

The fact is that the Democrats are trying to slander the Republicans by any means necessary, and they are failing miserably, namely because they are guilty of such inflammatory and hyperbolic exaggerations. Mr. Hinz attempts in vain to dismiss Durbin'sna comments as mere "hyperbole" and then has the balls to say "name me a politician anywhere in
Washington these days who doesn't use strong words".

Mr Hinz, we both know these are more than strong words. Durbin attempted to misinform the public by comparing legal interrogation tactics, even under the geneva convention which we are under no obligation to follow with illegal combatants, with murder factories in Cambodia, the USSR and Nazi Germany. But more importantly he was making an implied comparison of their leaders. In essence Durbin was saying that President Bush is just as guilty of human rights violations as Adolph Hitler, Joseph Stalin and Pol Pot. This is slander in its basest form and would be considered sheer lunacy if he actually made the direct comparison.

The scariest part about this entire pseudo-scandal is that it exposes how desperate and power hungry the democratic party really is, Durbin and Hinz included: They are willing to encourage the enemy and endanger American civilian and military lives by creating a scandal around GITMO and using that to smear President Bushg and Republican party for the next election. It is a shamful, desperate and in the end self-destructive plan. Exactly what the democrats have turned into under the leadership of those like Dean and Durbin.

Personally, I hope they keep going the way they are going. They'll keep on alienating themselves from the mainstream and come the next election the Republicans will win by even more votes. But hey, Dean and Durbin will still have their little positions of power based on propoganda and scandal, rather than actually trying to do anything or work with anyone they don't agree with.

[Typhoid]

Strangler, Saying Canada is cold based on just the east, or in your case just Toronto, that would be like me saying everyone in the US is a thief, because my brother got robbed in Seattle. Or like saying that all of the US are inbred hicks based on Alabama.

[gekko]

Originally Posted by The Strangler

How the Hell did this go from a thread about GITMO to a thread about how cold it is in Friggin' Canada?

I did good, huh?

[Professor S]

Typhoid, Canada is north of most of the inhabitted areas of the world, meaning that by any stretch of te term and through comparitive reasoning, CANADA IS COLD.

Stop trying to rationalize it. Its cold as hell in th winter, much colder than say... THE ENTIRE USA IN THE WINTER. If you live on the coast and its mild during the winter, you do not represent the majority of the country, or even a large minority.

Jesus, just deal with it instead of miscontruing common observation as a national insult.

[Fox 6]

Originally Posted by The Strangler

Typhoid, Canada is north of most of the inhabitted areas of the world, meaning that by any stretch of te term and through comparitive reasoning, CANADA IS COLD.

Stop trying to rationalize it. Its cold as hell in th winter, much colder than say... THE ENTIRE USA IN THE WINTER. If you live on the coast and its mild during the winter, you do not represent the majority of the country, or even a large minority.

Jesus, just deal with it instead of miscontruing common observation as a national insult.

Gekko said Every Canadian on this Board is used to the cold weather. Then I said that the 5 or so members that live in the valley experience warm to moderate weather. Jeez, i wasn't talking about the whole country in general. I was responding the the comment, like people are supposed to. pfffff.

/me ends useless rant

[Stonecutter]

Originally Posted by The Strangler

As for the article that Stonecutter posted, it was a heroic attempt at turning Durbin's offensive and rediculous rhetoric back at the Republicans, but it fails on shallow logical analysis. The fact is that if Durbin didn't make such rediculous claims there wouldn't be anything for the Republicans to rightfully complain about. The Republican party has been demonized by the Democrats for years, with Howard Dean, the head of the DNC, even calling Republicans "EVIL". Please excuse the Republican party if they wish to defend themselves against such assinine and childish insults.

Oh please. Republicans drop rhetorical bomb after bomb after bomb after bomb on democrats. The Clintons are weak, the Kennedys are socialists, the democrats are weak in general on foreign issues, they let murderous thugs run wild, they fund lots of pork, those who defend civil liberties are anti-american, time and time and time again they come after the liberals in the country and when the democrats fire back they hear "Oooohh you can't do that" from both sides of the aisle.

The only problem with the situation is the rest of the limp-dicked, meek democratic party chastising the few members who actually have the balls to fire back every now and then.

Durbin had every right to say what he said and should say it again and again. Dean too.

I'm so ****ing sick of the democratic party bending over and letting the republicans attack them with this two faced hypocritical bull****.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Stonecutter

Republicans drop rhetorical bomb after bomb after bomb after bomb on democrats. The Clintons are weak, the Kennedys are socialists, the democrats are weak in general on foreign issues, they let murderous thugs run wild, they fund lots of pork, those who defend civil liberties are anti-american, time and time and time again they come after the liberals in the country and when the democrats fire back they hear "Oooohh you can't do that" from both sides of the aisle.

The difference is that what you are quoting are coming from republican pundits and talk show hosts.... NOT POLITICIANS. The democrats are using politicians to make such attacks, and that is what is causing the furor. Do the Republicans go crazy everytime Alec Baldwin or Al Franken attack them? No, but when Howard Dean and Dick Durbin do it, its a little different.

Durbin had every right to say what he said and should say it again and again. Dean too.

I'm so ****ing sick of the democratic party bending over and letting the republicans attack them with this two faced hypocritical bull****.

And I hope every democrat feels exactly the same way, however delusional that feeling is. It means continued elections won by the Republicans. Leftists are hurt, defensive and desperate, as illustrated by your post. Your are lashing out and its hurting your party of choice.

Please continue to do so.