[Professor S]

Originally Posted by thatmariolover

But the public believes those people. When you say that the public didn't approve of the bill, don't you think it matters that they were incredibly misled by right-wing media? I don't deny that there has been misinformation on both sides, but right-wing media tends to make a far more sensational story out of theirs more often than not.

Why do people act as if I am absolving all Republicans? I have already stated there is plenty of blame to go around, but the right wing media did not feed the CBO fake numbers, the democrats did. The right wing media didn't remove half a billion dollars from medicare, the democrats did, and the Republicans rightly pointed it out. The right wing media didn't write nation changing legislation behind closed doors, the democrats did.

As for the tit for tat argument regarding reconciliation and deem and pass (two separate things), well that's yet another red herring. These procedural tactics have NEVER been used for this type of legislation, its a budgetary process, and most of the time when they were used there was bipartisan support.

COBRA, the Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1985, was major social legislation in that it mandated an insurance program giving some employees the ability to continue health insurance coverage after leaving employment. But reconciliation absolutely was not needed to enact the statute. The original Senate bill passed on a 93-6 vote. The reconciled bill (the one incorporating compromises with the House bill) then passed by a voice vote, indicating that the outcome was so apparent that no tally was required. If you’re interested, the voting record on COBRA is here.

President Clinton’s welfare reform statute, officially titled the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act of 1996, was also a relatively sweeping piece of social legislation (though not nearly as sweeping as the Obama health insurance reform proposal, which mandates a reordering of one-sixth of the U.S. economy). Again, though, the statute had significant bipartisan support and did not depend on the reconciliation process for its enactment. On the final vote, there were 78 Yeas and 21 Nays, with one Democrat not voting. Twenty-five Democrats (the minority party) joined 53 Republicans in supporting the bill. The voting record is here.

S-CHIP, the Children’s Health Insurance Program, was created by the Balanced Budget Act of 1997. Again, S-CHIP involves matters beyond mere revenue issues. But, again, reconciliation played no role in ensuring passage of the legislation. The statute at issue was enacted on a vote of 85 Yeas to 15 Nays. Forty-two Democrats (the minority party) joined 42 Republicans in supporting the bill. The voting record is here.

That brings us to the first Bush tax cuts, which were accomplished by the Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2003. This reconciliation bill passed the Senate with 58 Yeas and 33 Nays. Two senators voted “present” and 7 senators didn’t vote. (Voting record here.) Aha! A statute that wouldn’t have passed without reconciliation! Well, I’m not so sure. Two of the seven non-voting senators were Republicans (Senators Domenici of New Mexico and Enzi of Wyoming). Had they voted in favor of the bill, it would have commanded a 60-vote majority. I assume they would have done so had the reconciliation procedure not applied; each voted in favor of the second Bush tax cuts, which were far more controversial. It’s also possible that one or two of the non-voting Democrats would have voted in favor of the bill. After all, twelve Democrats joined the Republican majority in supporting the legislation. This is hardly analogous to the current proposal, where there are zero minority party Senators in favor of the pending legislation and the majority is incapable of passing the bill following the normal (non-reconciliation) procedures.

According to a recent poll:

• 57 percent of Republicans (32 percent overall) believe that Obama is a Muslim
  
• 45 percent of Republicans (25 percent overall) agree with the Birthers in their belief that Obama was "not born in the United States and so is not eligible to be president"
  
• 38 percent of Republicans (20 percent overall) say that Obama is "doing many of the things that Hitler did"
  
• Scariest of all, 24 percent of Republicans (14 percent overall) say that Obama "may be the Antichrist."

Mana, I remember going through that poll before, and I think we all debunked it together. If you look closely at it, a significant percentage of DEMOCRATS also believe Obama might be the Anti-Christ. The poll was nonsense. Please post the source, the poll is actually quite funny.