[TheGame]

Exactly my point. It seems you have acquiesced that piracy is bad regardless of userbase considerations. Anti-piracy will have to be a facet to be discussed with MS in the next generation. My point in arguing this is that this bad move (which allowed easy pirating) worked against MS and forced them to be tighter w/ their options in their next considerations (since it will reduce their profit margin drastically; whether the primary goal was to build userbase or not). I don't think anyone can make a point in saying that MS expected to totally lose money this generation to make money next generation. If that were the case, why not give Xbox's away?

LOL, that's a good point... and that's basically what they are doing

Not giving games away is for the sake of the developers... I mean, developers still gotta make money. If pirating was such a problem, more developers would be dropping Xbox than GCN... right? Well, I see way more games being slashed for GCN than any system.

And how many exclusive aa titles does Xbox have to warrant this sort of loyalty? Okay, there's Halo, I guess....and like, some other stuff. Let's say that another system comes out w/ about the same number of AA titles or more, you think those people who pirated Xbox games are gonna stick around w/ Xbox2 b/c they saw some good titles w/ Xbox but see a hell of a lot more in PS3 or some other system?

Quantity doesn't matter, it's all about the cult classics. I mean, people can run, but if you are hardcore enough you will stick around. Now, if Ps3 can be pirated... then hell yeah I can imagine them jumping ship easilly. But if they are pirating now and most of the games they like are going to be on Xbox or Xbox exclusive (assuming no system can be pirated at this time), then eh... they know what to buy.

I've said it many many times: DC pirating was one of the reasons it went downhill - one of the primary reasons. You think those people who bought a DC, pirated the hell out of it, are all migrating to Sega games now b/c they saw quality in Sega? Is that why Sega's doing so well now?

haha good therory... but Sega only dropped GCN (sports wise), the pirate free system... and they are supporting Xbox strongest of all.. plus Sega is extremely stupid with thier marketing.... seems that all three work together

So I guess you're saying pirating isn't much of a problem if not a blessing in disguise given MS's situation. I guess somehow you could make that argument. But I'm not buying it. Profit is profit. Profit allows more amibitous ventures. Even if you're saying potential userbase built w/ pirates may allow eventual migration, I don't see how a cogent businesses would allow a marginalizing subsidiary to develop bigger by dumping more and more funds into it - even if it's clear that the subsidiary lost money and lost it big. Sure, you can make an argument about making an initial impact. But through the lifetime of Xbox (I dunno, say, 4-5 fiscal years?), if profits keep marginalizing due to piracy and hardware losses, MS could very well rethink their strategy in the console market.

Personally, I think pirating is a terrible thing... but at the same time the most pirated system off all time was the best selling, and is currently still running things with minimal to no piracy.

I never gonna sit here and try to say it's a good thing... but it may not be a factor that pushes anything out of the console race.it was a much worse problem for Psx, and they fought through it.

But at the same time, there is allways a success story for every mistake, and there is always a very bad crash and burn story for every mistake.

I mean, Hard development used to be the thing that kills... N64 still sold 50 Million, and so will Ps2... and the easy development DC, Xbox, and GCN will be lucky to hit 30 million.

Who's to say if nything is going to kill anything. Pirating (may have) killed DC (even though I think it's the lack of popular quality games), pirating barely hurt Sony.. that falls under somthing else I said:

"The reason I see Nintendo dying before Microsoft is because Nintendo is a independent game company, and like Sega, they can't exactly afford to have any huge mistakes. MS could live through some giant mistakes in the future, and the userbase would be thier incentive to keep going... "

Which bring me back to my original point: if MS wants to stop piracy, it has to be done through hardware. It's simply too late to fix Xbox to stop this. Therefore, it has to happen in the next generation.

also applies to my above quote, like Sony they can deal with these problems... if it happens to Sega or Nintendo well

As for your ease of pirating stuff, you are assuming the person has a DVD player or recorder, or even a computer alltogether. I mean, getting new pirated games $10 a pop, computer free, DVD player free, and without worry Sony making some huge investigation where they will sue thier pants off... and pay a person for turning you in.

I dunno, it just seemed a lot more convienient... I guess not enough people around here sell/use pirated games for me to really compare. But I know some cut throat guys who would pirate anything they can get thier hands on.