[Shadow Fox]

Originally posted by TheGame
Yes there is, there is very much a debate

And, your lil $15 vs $45 thing is't valid because I'm talking about what ships consoles, now what ships games. As far as price-effectiveness goes, i's a HUGE factor in if you would buy a console or not. If Xbox didn't have a built in HD, costed $100 more, and had a $50 memory card, you are saying the game quality of Halo would still make you go out and buy one?

In a word, YES. As a matter of fact, I've spent more than that on a console and one game (3DO and SSFII Turbo-$499, Neo Geo Silver and Magician Lord, $649, Sega Saturn and Shinobi, $449). What good is an HD if I don't NEED it to play games (only to save some, barring Blinx)? Your point is no more valid than mine.

Tell that to consumers in Japan when Ps2 launched... The DVD player has value, and gives both systems an edge over GCN.

Since you brought in the Japan equation, every last one of those people looking for the better experience could've also gotten a Panasonic Q with better DVD playback/options than both Xbox and PS2. If this was still the case, the "better hardware features" would've made the Q an easy favorite in Japan, and it might have even come stateside. Instead, both the Q and Xbox are suffering in sales there- hardly an advantage.

True, alot of people bought a PS2 as a DVD player, at first, mainly because the launch was so lackluster (c'mon, THREE games?). Also, like you and I knew, many folks got that PS2 because they knew there would soon be a plethera of titles for it just as its precursor the PSX.

If you live in a house without a DVD player, and you have no money (in other words, your parents buy al the games) , the system your parents will most easily buy into is the Ps2. For your parents the DVD player maybe the primary function,for you the games may have been, but either way you look at itthe DVD player is a factor in the systems value, and a reason to buy one.

Nice point you're making, but the fact of the matter is only people in Japan would have this issue then (many people in the US and elsewhere have had DVD players since 2000). Even now there are more affordable DVD players in japan for less than $99, and if this was an issue, a GameCube and a real DVD player is just as cheap as a PS2 or Xbox, and was even cheaper before the system pricecuts this year.

It all depends on the person...

Yes it does, but you are going against this very ideal by saying price has more to do with things, when it's really totally random as a factor.

Get this- not everyone buys a console as a DVD player, but everyone buys a console for games.

Of course the hardware isn't going to effect you or change your mind when buying a new game... A good game is a good game, period. But, like I said before, timing, priceing, and hardware value DOES effect if you are going to buy a system or Not.

I never said those wouldn't affect whether someone would purchase a console or not- I said it wasn't what it was all about, which it isn't; those only play a small role, whereas the games themselves hoist the majority of the decision.

Timing: The most obvious... if DC was released fall of 2001, it the exact same shape it was fall of 99, with the same $200 price tag, you wouldn't buy it... because the hardware is serverely outdated, not because the games are weak. If you would buy it, you must be smokin somthing.

Actually I'd buy it, and I wouldn't be alone. Why? What was before DC? N64? PSX? Dreamcast was a great leap over those two, and was well worth the money for the expansive list of games (and hacks) developed for it.

Even compared to the PS2, the graphics are very crisp, and the DC even has a cleaner antialiasing scheme...

BTW, GCN and Xbox aren't exactly new technology, either- both consoles have parts in them dating back as far as 1999.

Hardware Value and Priceing: it makes a difference...

Once again, I never said it didn't make a difference, I said it wasn't all about pricing.

If you could get an Xbox the way it is now, for 100 bucks, would you get one? Hell yes. But what if the Xbox, at that price, had not a single game that interested you in the least? Would you buy an Xbox for 130 just to use it as a DVD player?

but the question is... are we argueing about how you personally chose your console, or how america is buying.

It's whether or not a console is all about the games- you are way off track here.

Personally, I'm like you, games first, then hardware... but that ain't how the plublic choses. The only people who really matter here are the peeps who buy one, and ONLY one console... what makes them chose that certain one over the others? Well, what advantages does Ps2 have? That the's only explanation.

I'll just close with this: PS2 has games. Lots of games, and a head start with a few very good games. Guess what, Game, that's THE MAIN REASON why they bought their consoles, end of story.

-Official Ninja of [coming soon]...