[BreakABone]

Originally posted by TheGame
Ok... Justin's explination on how worrying too much about profit hurts games:

Penguin's advice on using spell check....

First of all look at Gaamecube's design... you can not tell me that them holdng back didn't have anything to do with thier monney grubbing ways.

Well, I don't mind the GCN design. As my teacher told us KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid)

1) Gamecube doesn't feature a DVD player.... why? Because they saw how bad sony faird with a DVD player at first in Japan... profit first, system quality later.

Well, I highly doubt that the DVD decision was based on the PS2' sales, I mean the Ps2 launched in March of 2000 and the GCN was revealed in August, that would give them like 5 months? Maybe, you know more than I do, but I don't think it is, I think it was more Nintendo's decision to avoid piracy.

2) Gamecube's best source of memory at launch was 500kb... do you really want me to go into this again. Simply put, if you remember, it hurt sports games back then, and it still hurts them now. Plus Nintendo sold it for an extremely rip off price of $14.99 in the face of competition who sold thiers for $34.99 with 16x the memory.

I know we've been through the memory card debate time and time again, and it all depends on the type of gamer you are. I mean I can only imagine how it hurts sports fans, but I've never had a problem with the 59 and I had a lot of games on them, and the 251 is about half full with 21 games now. But I do agree for such a small memory card, it was rather expensive.

3) The disks... Ok, maybe it doesn't hurt games, or does it? Have you seen a nice long RPG come out for GCN yet? I haven't. Nintendo made these disks the prevent piracy, and in turn gave the disks much less memory. Don't give me that stupid "1.5GB is plenty" arguement, because it may be plenty for the games that are out now, but it's not as much as the competition. Plus there allready games on Ps2 that wouldn't be able to fit on those disks, more like 2-3 of them... Gran Turismo and every RPG for example.

Well, Skies of Arcadia Legends is a nice long RPG, I mean it may be a port of a DC game, but it wasn't that large of a game on the Dc, and the fact that GCN doesn't have many RPGs make it hard to judge failry. Maybe, there are no RPGs because they won't sell on the Cube or the size of the disc, who is to know?

I will agree there are several games on Ps2/Xbox that wouldn't fit on one Cube disc, and people say that would hurt Nintendo in the long run, I really can't tell if it has.

these are just a few of many examples where Nintendo sacrificed quality for $$$... even selling Rare could be put on this list.

I don't know if they sacrificed "quality" as they did shortchanging, I mean the disc, memory cards and whatever are of good quality, but it was shortchanging consumers.

Yep, now that they know thier role, ditched GCN sports, and slowed down development and game releases I'm sure they will make it work. But will they ever be a highly successful third party? Put it like this, they need to slow WAY down before they start gaining respect again.

I think Sega will always be a respected developer, they may not be trusted by everyone but still. As for slowing down game development, I guess it would be wise for Sega to slow down the rate of releasing games and concern themselves with getting out high quality games that will sell better.

They are a good developer, capible of big things... but reasleasing too many games is killing them. They need to slow down and make some true killer apps (I'm talkin games that get in the high 9's) then they can work with momentum from that and get faster and faster.

I agree with you on that point, but I just put off 2001 and 2002 as testing years for Sega, I mean they were just going 3rd party and they don't know what sells where.

If they went 2nd party would it be as important for them to make a profit? Would the sacrifices they make all the time to make profit be cured if they became a second party? If Nintendo was just sitting there, worrying 100% about games... and not how well thier console will fair in q4 of 2003... and not about what big name games they need to FORCE out in order to pull a profit... do you think thier game quality would go up or down?

I don't think Nintendo make many sacrifices for a profit. I mean look at the constant delays and the secretive nature.

In a way having Nintendo worry about how they will do in q4 2003 would help gamers, I mean it means Nintendo has to get a fire under their ass to recent a game that might actually sell instead of delaying it forever.

I look at games like Luigi's mansion, and I think to myself about how much that game could have really been if Nintendo spent 2 years instead of the one year they took to develop it.

Well, I really don't know if the extra time would have helped Luigi's Mansion, the fact is Luigi's Mansion was a very limited concept no matter how much time they poured into it, I don't see it going very far.

But who's to say Nintendo as a 2nd party wouldn't be forced to a schedule or a tighter budget. I mean as their own developer they have any freedom they want.

Well, that's why I have repeated over and over that I would like them to become a second party, not a third party because "I think going third party could kill any developer"

And if Nintendo goes second party, which company do you think they should go to? I mean if Nintendo goes to Sony or Microsoft, I could see folks sharing some of the same issues with Nintendo that they do now.

Nintendo fans (at least the ones in this forum) are loyal enough to follow Nintendo into whichever connection they may have made. Hell, you would be shocked at how many people are buying Xboxes now that one of thier Nintendo favorites is coming out for the system.

Just because Nintendo fans are loyal to the Big N now, doens't mean they will be in the future. Some may leave Nintendo's camp because they felt that they sold out, others may have some type of grudge against the company that buys out Nintendo for forcing them out of the industry and so many other stuff could be an "N-Factor"

If Nintendo went third party, that would be a servere problem, then, just like you said, they split up franchises. If they stick to one other sytem, I'm sure that system would be in my house and your house come 2006

Well, I don't know how much gaming I will be doing in 2006 as people grow out of stuff, but I guess it's understandable. Technically, if Nintendo does go 3rd party, I don't think it will happen any time soon.

Xbox has 10 Buttons:
A
B
X
Y
Black
White
L
R
L2
R2
(the last two are pressing the sticks)

GCN has:
A
B
X
Y
L
R
Z

Ok ok, I got the point even after we went over this on AIM yesterday.

As far as animal Crossing, it could serve as a problem, but as long as you keep your system plugged in you keep the time going, if you unplug the sytem it's your own damn fault that you have to reset the clock in thast game

Well, what if you don't plug out the system? Say, someone else moves it or you got to move or something else like that? It shouldn't be a force to keep a system plugged in all the time.

If it doesn, I'm shocked. Nintendo wouldn't spend the extra $$$ to put that in there system... and you can quote me on this when they release the specs.

There you have been quoted.

Also, you talk about Animal crossing... imaging if That game was on an 8MB card or a limitless hard drive. The city could be ten times as big, there could be WAY more crap saved. Like events and stuff, and more customization. You could make a limitless number of those patterns with better graphics.

I don't see how exactly the Memory Card factors into the game. I mean it worked on the n64 and it worked on GCn with no issue. Why would you want a much bigger city? I mean I know you are talking theorically, but imagine running around a much larger town with those damn errands, I think it would be more of a nuance than anything special.

I don't know what other events you are referring to, I was pretty sure the events were on the disc and not the memory card?

I've wanred you twice now....

Is it? I would be willing to put money of the fact that more Ps2 owners have GBAs than GCN owners. Plus, if there were no Nintendo system, like I said before, Nintendo fans would flock to the Nintendo brand... if it were on Ps2, or Xbox, it would sell to all the guys who would have bought it for cube, and all the guys who couldn't buy it because they don't have a cube.

Well, I would also assume that more Ps2 owners have GBA than GCN owners, I mean there is a much larger number of folks with Ps2, you do the math.

Well, I just use common sense... I'll make a poll (well, maybe not a poll because of the situation nowadays) to prove my point.

Do you have common sense?

Dreamcast was out allready too, before Ps2 came, and DC had a pretty strong backing, online at least. But when it's preformance got ripped apart everybody ditched it.

Well, I think DC suffered from a lot of stuff that isn't really in Nintendo's issues. I mean they had no support whatsoever from EA (which is the world's largest 3rd party) even if they are dropping GCN support, they are still supporting it. Not to mention, Sega was perceived as being weak going in and well the system wasn't the hottest seller.

Ps2's preformance has yet to be simply killed off. That's why it stays. You can't tell me that GBA is the most advanced handheld technology in the world. GBA has a LOT of room to be killed visually.

the GB was killed off visually by other handhelds. The GBC was as well. The GB still remains the strongest brand on the handheld side. just because it can be killed visually doens't mean folks will buy it.

If Luigi's mansion is the best selling launch game of all time, I'm sure they knew they could make a few bucks with Animal crossing. They spent little to nothing to make it, so there is no way to lose. Kinda like Sega with Sonic mega collection.

Like I said the game was released to fill the lineup, I'm pretty sure Nintendo knew they would make a profit on the game and it proved to be an interesting game.

Sonic Mega Collection was just a cheap way to gain something from Sega. I mean it didn't improve the Cube's line-up any during the end of the year, but it was a quick buck for Sega.

Another difference between AC and SMC, AC was never released in the US, but most if not all of those games on SMC were and a long time ago at that.

and that's about it... in the end you kinda disagreed then agreed

Well, I'm just here for the debate, I'm not saying everything I say is my opinion, but it makes it more interesting doesn't it?

Crash who is that weird kid in your avatar?

If you talk like that pengiun, you basically saying that there is no way to tell if a game is good or not. While sure, everything is based on opinoin, but if a game gets good reviews from all the major magazines, websites, ect., dont you think is a safe bet that thats a well-made, quality title? Oh wait, thats just opinoin again. If we ignore the reviews, who's to say superman64 really sucked?

Well, SuperMan 64 generally is considered a bad game, but some people may find some fun in it. I mean I had one friend who graduated last year, who actually loved the game and who am I or anyone else to tell him he shouldn't like it?

I mean there are some high scoring games I don't like at all then some low scoring ones I love, like Mystic Heroes.

Reviews/Previews and whatever else magainzes and sites put out should help make a decision, they shouldn't be the reason to buy a game.