[TheGame]

Ok, I won't go into anything with the quality of nintendo games versus MicroSoft's or sony's because U'm sure I will piss some folks off, but I see where you're coming from with that, but I don't see how making a profit is hurting their games, maybe I'm missing something here.

Ok... Justin's explination on how worrying too much about profit hurts games:

First of all look at Gaamecube's design... you can not tell me that them holdng back didn't have anything to do with thier monney grubbing ways.

1) Gamecube doesn't feature a DVD player.... why? Because they saw how bad sony faird with a DVD player at first in Japan... profit first, system quality later.

2) Gamecube's best source of memory at launch was 500kb... do you really want me to go into this again. Simply put, if you remember, it hurt sports games back then, and it still hurts them now. Plus Nintendo sold it for an extremely rip off price of $14.99 in the face of competition who sold thiers for $34.99 with 16x the memory.

3) The disks... Ok, maybe it doesn't hurt games, or does it? Have you seen a nice long RPG come out for GCN yet? I haven't. Nintendo made these disks the prevent piracy, and in turn gave the disks much less memory. Don't give me that stupid "1.5GB is plenty" arguement, because it may be plenty for the games that are out now, but it's not as much as the competition. Plus there allready games on Ps2 that wouldn't be able to fit on those disks, more like 2-3 of them... Gran Turismo and every RPG for example.

these are just a few of many examples where Nintendo sacrificed quality for $$$... even selling Rare could be put on this list.

While, it is true Sega hasn't turned a profit, it really doesn't count since they were losing money before they went 3rd party, if it helps any, they are atleast not going more into debt. And I'm sure it will take some time for them to go above the red again

Yep, now that they know thier role, ditched GCN sports, and slowed down development and game releases I'm sure they will make it work. But will they ever be a highly successful third party? Put it like this, they need to slow WAY down before they start gaining respect again.

They are a good developer, capible of big things... but reasleasing too many games is killing them. They need to slow down and make some true killer apps (I'm talkin games that get in the high 9's) then they can work with momentum from that and get faster and faster.

Well, I don't think it's far to talk about Nintendo being out for a profit. Nintendo is a game maker and nothing else. Sony and Microsoft has other divisions that could help stomach any loss they made, Nintendo doesn't, they make their money only in the game market so it is important for them to make a profit.

If they went 2nd party would it be as important for them to make a profit? Would the sacrifices they make all the time to make profit be cured if they became a second party? If Nintendo was just sitting there, worrying 100% about games... and not how well thier console will fair in q4 of 2003... and not about what big name games they need to FORCE out in order to pull a profit... do you think thier game quality would go up or down?

I look at games like Luigi's mansion, and I think to myself about how much that game could have really been if Nintendo spent 2 years instead of the one year they took to develop it.

Well in a way, nintendo could end up dividing it's fanbase, I mean if PS3 would get Mario and xbox 2 get Zelda, I see some Nintendo fans getting pissed at it and not buying either. I mean you can say something that may happen, I could say something that might happen, the simple fact is no one knows for sure. you may say Nintendo fans are loyal, but that was when they could get all the games at one place when they are spread out, it could help or it could hurt. No one knows for sure.

Well, that's why I have repeated over and over that I would like them to become a second party, not a third party because "I think going third party could kill any developer"

Nintendo fans (at least the ones in this forum) are loyal enough to follow Nintendo into whichever connection they may have made. Hell, you would be shocked at how many people are buying Xboxes now that one of thier Nintendo favorites is coming out for the system.

If Nintendo went third party, that would be a servere problem, then, just like you said, they split up franchises. If they stick to one other sytem, I'm sure that system would be in my house and your house come 2006

Well, it is true not many games use the "digital click" and as a whole I do find them pretty useless, but hey maybe Nintendo has something special with it, I doubt it.

O o, I know one game that was done on the Cube that would be a bitch on the Xbox, Animal Crossing, I'm sorry for such a powerful system, why the hell can't it keep time when it's plugged out?

Well, just because it has more buttons doesn't mean it's needed, and what three buttons? The black and white buttons as well as the back button? If you count the "z" button, that would be two more unless I missed a button on my Xbox.

Xbox has 10 Buttons:
A
B
X
Y
Black
White
L
R
L2
R2
(the last two are pressing the sticks)

GCN has:
A
B
X
Y
L
R
Z

As far as animal Crossing, it could serve as a problem, but as long as you keep your system plugged in you keep the time going, if you unplug the sytem it's your own damn fault that you have to reset the clock in thast game

Well, I'm sure their are some features that the hard-drive opens up that wasn't done before, but I'm just not seeing it now. Maybe, Nintendo could work miracles with it, maybe they can't, but who's to say that Nintendo's next console wouldn't have a hard-drive?

If it doesn, I'm shocked. Nintendo wouldn't spend the extra $$$ to put that in there system... and you can quote me on this when they release the specs.

Also, you talk about Animal crossing... imaging if That game was on an 8MB card or a limitless hard drive. The city could be ten times as big, there could be WAY more crap saved. Like events and stuff, and more customization. You could make a limitless number of those patterns with better graphics.

the next time you roll your eyes at me, well let's say you don't want to know what I'm gonna do.

Anyhow you say it's a bigger userbase, but how many Ps2ers would care for a PokeMon game, I mean it's not exactly in the audience's big interest is it?

Is it? I would be willing to put money of the fact that more Ps2 owners have GBAs than GCN owners. Plus, if there were no Nintendo system, like I said before, Nintendo fans would flock to the Nintendo brand... if it were on Ps2, or Xbox, it would sell to all the guys who would have bought it for cube, and all the guys who couldn't buy it because they don't have a cube.

There are many variables that are unpredictable just because something seems so clear cut doesn't mean it is.

Well, I just use common sense... I'll make a poll (well, maybe not a poll because of the situation nowadays) to prove my point.

You have a point on that, the only difference is the GBA is out already, the Saturn did beat the PSX to the market, but the n64 didn't. The GBA has a loyal fanbase and much like the Ps2 at the moment, the competitors can try and catch up but it's highly unlikely especially with the SP coming out soon.

Dreamcast was out allready too, before Ps2 came, and DC had a pretty strong backing, online at least. But when it's preformance got ripped apart everybody ditched it.

Ps2's preformance has yet to be simply killed off. That's why it stays. You can't tell me that GBA is the most advanced handheld technology in the world. GBA has a LOT of room to be killed visually.

As for Animal Crossing, I think it was released (atleast in Japan) to fill in their line-up since they already had the game finished and not many folks got to experience it in Japan due to it's late release. I have no idea why it was released in NA, I mean I highly doubt that it was for money because Nintendo should know that a game with such outdated graphics, a kiddish look and well no real purpose wouldn't have sold too hot (even if it did), I think it was more or less a taste game.

If Luigi's mansion is the best selling launch game of all time, I'm sure they knew they could make a few bucks with Animal crossing. They spent little to nothing to make it, so there is no way to lose. Kinda like Sega with Sonic mega collection.



and that's about it... in the end you kinda disagreed then agreed

soo... in conclusion