[sdtPikachu]

Right... well you knew I'd appear sooner or later, right?

I can't really add much from my point of view that Xantar hasn't said already, and far more eloquently than I could put it... but here goes anyway.

[Start one of no doubt several posts]

In chronological order (aand without quotes, cos I'm lazy):

"i'd like to know what those questions are, thats all"

As far as believeing in god, I can no longer find any questions to ask. To me, the evidence I have seen that made me make up my mind leaves little room for doubt.
True, I don't know where the universe came from. But that's about all I can't see for myself; everything else has been more than adequately explained to me by scientific analysis.

"oh bloody hell. not this again"

Can't blame you for feeling offended; it's a very personal topic, and yes emotions can get a bit heated and people may get annoyed at everyone's apparently "stupid" (from their perspective) POV. Basically, if you can't handle the debate, then please don't participate for all our sakes.

"It can be answered both ways..."

True it can be answered both ways. But this is contrary to the scientific method. Scientific method assumes nothing (especially existence of a god). If you can't find an explanation for something, you keep looking. You don't just say "damn, I can't figure this out, must be gods doing". Hence there is point in arguing; the two are incongruent belief systems.

"as for the dinosaurs, their are references in the bible"

Yes, but they are said to be co-existing or just pre-dating humans. Unless you want to argue with a geologist how 60 million years worth of rock got in between them and not one human remain found with the dinosaurs (and don't even think of bringing up that lame arsed "proof" that was the supposed human foortprints found with a dinosaur.
And whilst we're on the subject: as I read them, most of the references in the bible could apply to any number of things. Here's a question: have you ever read a horoscope and thought "wow, that really DOES apply to me?" I find it odd that instead of explicitly describing scaly reptiles ten feet tall who tore people limb from limb it only makes a few exceedingly vague inferences that anyone could dig up if they were eager enough to find them.

"why believe in him....if you don't, when you physically die, you will be seperated from god for eternity"

One of the more offensive posts I've read on the subject. If you read between the lines you are saying that by me not believing in a god I am inferior to you because you are right and I am wrong. And yet this is backed up only by opinion. You have no scientific proof god exists, and you should refrain from thinking you do. Your statement was phrased as a fact. This implies you know something I don't (presumably you do have proof). Either phrase a more polite way of saying this (such as by adding an "IMO") or refrain from saying it at all. As Xantar says, you're not helping things.

"What is the "scientific method"?"

In short - what you can see.
In detail - an explanation similar to Xantars;
1. You take a piece of the universe, and you look at it.
2. You wonder how it was created (scientifically)
3. You form a hypothesis resulting from these observations and thoughts.
4. You test this hypothesis by experiment on other objects to see if it stays true
5. If the hypothesis does not fit with observable results, you change your hypothesis to fit what can be seen.
6. Repeat 4
7. Repeat 5
8. When there is no reasonable discrepancy between what you think is happening (the hypothesis) and what you know is happening (the experiment), your hypothesis has been justified and you are entitled to call it a theory. This theory may indeed be modified later by further theories (best example is of gravity; works in everyday cases, but fails when the numbers get very small or very big, which is where the much newer quantum mechanics fits in; it explains the parts of physical laws that gravity could not.

"Have you went to church and prayed the "correct" way?"

Depends what you mean by the "correct" way. Whose church do I go to? Hindu? Islam? Christian? Pagan? Buddhist? Catholic? Baptist? Protestant? CoE? Scientology? Each of these churches has it's own way of worshipping, to no god, a god, or gods. Which is the correct way? If you believe the "correct"way is in the christian fashion, then: a) yes I have. I was educated under the grossly unfair British system where christianity is forced on people, and until I was 12 I believed it; and b) I am astounded by your arrogance in denouncing every single other belief system in the world as "incorrect". Personally I think people deserve some respect for their beliefs, and this comment is more of an insult.

"Have you read and comprehended most/all of the bible?"

I have read the bible. It's what convinced me to become an atheist. When you say understood it...? Well surely everyione has their own way of understanding anything. When you "understand" it, you see god. When I "understand" it, I see a method of population control. Again, you make presumptions that you are right and everyone who disagrees with you is wrong.

"there's no way to prove it WRONG"

Technically speaking, no there is no way to prove there isn't a god simply because of the mercurial nature of gods themselves. But there are several large swathes of religious texts and edicts which have been shown scientifically to be wrong. Like the earth being 6000 years old for instance. I simply prefer to put my faith ni things that I can see, not things which MIGHT be true just because no-ones come up with a decent explanation yet.

"cuz like all the religious people are like "I believe this I believe that" and the proof is only what they believe, so it's not really proof, but then someone says "Yeah, well I believe he doesn't exist" and the religious people are like "Do you have any PROOF that he doesn't exist?" and I'm like "Do you have any PROOF that he does exist?""

Many a true word is spoken in jest, DsH...! It is true that many religious people hold their own thought to be sacrosanct and any deviation from this is heresy and would therefore require an immense amount of evidence for them to even begin to challenge their beliefs. And yes, when you say "I do not believe in god because..." many see it as a personal attack on their beliefs, hance they get offended. I wish everyone would just lighten up and treat everyone like a human. If anyone gets offended by my remarks, maybe you should take a look at your own and try to see them from the point of a non-believer viewpoint, as I am struggling to do from yours.

"Ugh... if you haven't experimented with somthing yourself, how can you prove somthing?"

You are now confusing science with belief. Even if Xantar did believe in god and all that, it still wouldn't prove that god existed. To say that the only reason he has that god doesn't exist is that he hasn't prayed ("correctly" presumably) is very ignorant. What if he prayed to the pagan gods? Would that prove that they exist?
Xantar has formed his beliefs about the existence or non-existence of gods through his own thoughts and observations: he has proved it to himself. However, believing in god does not magically create scientific proofs for everything out of thin air. I could say to you: if you've not experimenyted with not believing in god, how can you prove that he does exist? I could also say "prove invisible pink unicorns totally undetectable to any instrument don't exist" and you would be in the same situation. It is outside of scientific analysis.

"You have a hypotesis.... you've made predictions, but you haven't tested them. 2 out of 4 steps."

A hypothesis for what? His beliefs? His beliefs are based (as far as I can tell) on observable facts (that you or I or anyone could go and see for oursleves) with the minimum amount of spirtiual muddlement. How can he test his beliefs? Well from what I know of him, he already has. he has looked at the evidence laid before him, and concluded that science is a better yardstick than faith. What is your problem with this?

"I believe in God, I personally cannot see how somebody cannot."

Well, at least you acknowledge that it's your own personal belief. As far as how I can't believe in god? For me it is easy. Believing in god makes you happy because you see that when you die if you are good to him you will spend eternity in paradise whilst infidels like myself will suffer endless torment. But I have no need of a god to make me feel happy; I do not need an afterlife, this one is enough for me. Sure it'd be nice to think I'd live forever, but I can't swallow that one. I cannot see it ever happening, and I have never seen any evidence of it happening. Hence it would be rather presumptuous of me to say that it existed. So I derive my happiness from knowing that I am going to do my utmost to make my life as enjoyable as possible. That is where I derive my happiness; from the contentment of myself, my family and my friends. Everyone has different things that make them happy; for you it is god. Everyone has a different method.

"Too many questions, and the only way we can find answers is by dying."
True enough.

"I believe in Jesus Christ"
So do I if you leave out the christ bit

" And if Christians believe that other Religions are wrong, and other religions believe that Christianity is wrong, then who is right?"
One of the things that led me to question my beliefs. As I see it, none are right and none are wrong; they are all equally valid. What got to me was the way people kill each other over it, each with the belief that "god was on their side", like the Taliban do. IMO, there is no way an omnipotent benevolent god would allow this; here follows one of my favourite quotes:

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