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Originally Posted by jeepnut
I feel like we keep talking past each other. You're arguing that it's wrong to think being gay is a sin. I believe if you look over my posts, I never said that. I said that homosexual acts are the sin.
I think we need to establish what we are talking about. What do you mean by being gay? Do you mean having a degree of same sex attraction? If that is the case, I agree with you. Having same sex attraction is a characteristic of that person and is not a sin. We can't change the way we were made. However, if by being gay you mean participating willingly in homosexual acts, then we disagree. If someone chooses to do something that is sinful, then they have sinned, regardless of their predisposition to that act. A sin is something that harms our relationship with God. As I've stated before, it is not in and of itself a reason to hate someone. We are all sinners! However, we are all also loved and redeemed by God. It's quite a stretch to say calling an action a sin is to hate that person. Does this happen? Yes, because we are human. But get this, to hate someone, even for their sins, is a sin in itself!
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Then you are asking people to be gay but never truly happy. I'm not sure how that's any less cruel. It kind of reminds me of the story of Job - God essentially bets against Satan that no matter what horrible things he does to Job, Job will not stray. So God has evidently made these people gay and asked them, specifically, not to stray in this specific way. This is pretty pointless to argue because your reasoning is going to be, "That's the will of God so I have to believe it's right," and my reasoning is that it's cruel regardless of who does it, and why worship a cruel god?
People seem to think I would be a Christian if I believed God existed - I would not. The story of Job is a fine example of why.
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Are you saying that because heresy exists, the belief becomes void? There are people who call themselves Catholic who believe abortion is OK. There are even people who claim to be Christians that do not believe in the divinity of Jesus! This has no effect on who God is though.
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I'm saying it because earlier you said if I didn't believe in God then that meant your beliefs were not my problem. Some people think your beliefs are heresy. They derive a different meaning from the Bible passages you use to say homosexuality is a sin. In this case, it IS their problem, because they share the same religion as you.
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Would I be right to determine from this quote that you consider yourself an atheist? If so, why is it that you have chosen atheism?
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Because there is no compelling evidence to suggest otherwise. Suggesting that God exists because there is no proof he doesn't is not a valid argument - you could say that about any weird thing you can imagine. There is literally no difference between the myth of God and the myth of Santa Clause - except one is considered fantasy and the other isn't, for no reason.
You speak of cause and effect and suggest that since we do not know the cause of certain things it only makes sense to attribute it to God. No, that does not make sense. Over the span of human existence we have not known the cause of a great many things. Those causes were attributed to deities - at first there were many deities to explain many different causes. Eventually we got to where most major religions have 1 deity for all causes. However, as science progressed and we discovered the real cause for all these previously unexplained effects, God has been used to describe fewer things.
There is no reason to believe God will ever actually be the cause of anything. It is far more likely there is a scientific explanation, as there is for everything else, than a supernatural one.
One example is medicine. Religious people will often "pray" for ill or injured people. They 100% think that praying to God will have a tangible effect on that persons health. Why then does God only have the power to cure what doctors can? I have yet to see God regrow a limb. This either suggests he is unable or unwilling. If he is unable, then God is not all powerful. If he is unwilling, why does God hate amputees, but will occasionally help someone with cancer, struggling with chemo?
If, in 15 years, scientists find a way to regrow limbs that works 50% of the time, people will pray to God to help their relative regrow that limb, and if it works, will attribute their prayers to her success.
If in 30 years scientists find a way to regrow limbs that works 100% of the time, people will not pray and will not attribute the success to God.