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Originally Posted by Vampyr
The problem with thinking being gay is a sin is that it's not universally agreed upon like most other sins. Everyone thinks killing people, stealing, being jealous, abusive, etc are not good qualities.
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I feel like we keep talking past each other. You're arguing that it's wrong to think being gay is a sin. I believe if you look over my posts, I never said that. I said that homosexual acts are the sin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vampyr
Being gay is a characteristic of that person that most people agree cannot be changed. It's like if your religion thought having red hair was a sin, or being black was a sin. You could still say, "I don't hate black people, I just think they're living in sin, but it's not your religion so don't worry about it" - but it really becomes an issue when you believe that and are in a position of power, either as a government official or a school teacher or even just the owner of a grocery store. One can only assume that belief will affect your judgement regarding those people.
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I think we need to establish what we are talking about. What do you mean by being gay? Do you mean having a degree of same sex attraction? If that is the case, I agree with you. Having same sex attraction is a characteristic of that person and is not a sin. We can't change the way we were made. However, if by being gay you mean participating willingly in homosexual acts, then we disagree. If someone chooses to do something that is sinful, then they have sinned, regardless of their predisposition to that act. A sin is something that harms our relationship with God. As I've stated before, it is not in and of itself a reason to hate someone. We are all sinners! However, we are all also loved and redeemed by God. It's quite a stretch to say calling an action a sin is to hate that person. Does this happen? Yes, because we are human. But get this, to hate someone, even for their sins, is a sin in itself!
For this reason, I think your examples are poor. Sins are based off actions, not characteristics, so there is no way being black, having red hair, having same sex attraction, or any other characteristic could be considered sinful.
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Originally Posted by Vampyr
In addition, a large number of Christians I know don't think being gay is a sin - so in that case it IS there religion, so there is some conflict there.
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Are you saying that because heresy exists, the belief becomes void? There are people who call themselves Catholic who believe abortion is OK. There are even people who claim to be Christians that do not believe in the divinity of Jesus! This has no effect on who God is though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vampyr
To be honest, the way I feel about religion in general is that I live in a world where most people believe in Santa Clause and I'm one of the few who realizes he isn't real. Which is fine - I don't care if people believe in Santa Clause. Even I like to pretend he's real around Christmas. But when this belief is the driving force behind laws that are affecting me and my fellow citizens, it becomes an issue. You shouldn't write real laws based off Santa Clause.
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Would I be right to determine from this quote that you consider yourself an atheist? If so, why is it that you have chosen atheism?