[BreakABone]

Originally Posted by Angrist

I think you're missing the point here now BaB. This isn't about changing a habit, it's about controls that don't suit the game. The DKC games were always played with a SNES controller. I would personally play this game with the Classic Controller if it was supported, because I think it would be comfortable.

Okay I will say this again, this isn't really about Donkey Kong Country Returns alone, its about the general notion that Nintendo should include Cube/Classic Controller support in their games because people prefer it.
Replace DKCR with Galaxy, NSMBW, Kirby, Metroid, etc etc

Apparently Nintendo haven't found a good replacement for the Cubetroller, because lots of people still use it. Until they do (Yuu?), why not offer the extra control options? Are they honestly thinking it would hold gamers back? Give them some more credit, they know when motion controls work and when they don't. Nintendo is just being too stubborn, like with a lot of stuff.

Is Nintendo being stubborn or are gamers being stubborn?
How many years can people hold their breathes, Nintendo's not treating us right. We want Cube/classic/PS3/360 type controls in our game, and they shown time and time again they won't do it. Again Prime 3, Zelda, Galaxy 1/2, Endless Ocean, Kirby, Other M, the list goes on and on.

Originally Posted by Vampyr

No, I haven't, and now I probably never will. I'm basing my assessment on my previous experience with motion controls and platforming, as well as feedback from others (including you).

Which is perfectly fine I guess, but I find it odd that someone throws a stink about something when technically they haven't played it. I mean for all you know, it could work better for you than it did for me.

Yes, that is what I'm arguing. How is having a controller scheme with the nunchuck any more simple than a controller scheme with the classic controller? Both are addons that you plug into the bottom of a wii mote, except one has a d-pad that you could have used, which solves your initial problem of not enjoying the analog stick.

The BIG difference between the chuck and the Classic Controller, and I'm sure you thought about this when posted, is one comes standard with the console, the other you have to buy on its own. They aren't comparable at all.

And since when is it terrible business practice to do things to get more people to buy your game?

So let me ask, would you advocate Microsoft get Epic to include Kinect controls in the next Gears of War? Or maybe a patch for Halo Reach? Both of those would help get new people to buy your game... I don't think it makes sense, but from your point of view, its terrible business not to.

Controller options are extremely important. How many games out there let you customize some or all of your button configuration? Almost all of them.

Before we continue, how many Nintendo games allow you to mess around with your buttons? I can be wrong but I can't think of many since the SNES, and even then most of their games didn't allow it. They've always been stubborn on button placement.

Originally Posted by Vampyr

By releasing some games, even just a few, like Kart and Brawl, with the option to use different controllers/formats, they created that expectation. And I love those games - I played Mario Kart Wii just yesterday (I used a gcn controller). /quote]
I don't think Nintendo ever created those expectations, when you think about it, Brawl wasn't developed by them, even if it was of there doing, it was an outside studio for the most part.

And even with Mario Kart, I think the Wii controls took centerstage, and they threw a bone to the rest of the people. Personally, I really dislike the Cube controls for that game since they throw tricks onto the d-pad which I thought was an odd decision.

I see the Wii as a system with motion controls, not a motion control system. I feel like it's in everyone's best interest (both the players and Nintendo), to provide plenty of control options for any given game. If the motion controls are good and they work and are fun, people will use them. If they aren't, people won't, and if you don't provide any other alternative, people won't buy the game, just like I'm doing.

Your logic doesn't match the reality of the situation that most of their games are doing much better than the last two gens without the option for classic control support. And we won't even mention the gulf that is the difference between the console userbase they had on the Cube and the Wii.

Some people won't buy it, but how is that any different than any other game?

A good example of what I mean is the DS, almost every DS game except the ones that use touching as a game component, give you alternatives. Often I use a combination of buttons and the touch screen. Giving players this option, and not forcing them to use the touch screen, has not been detrimental to the system at all.

And that is because the DS includes buttons.

Like I said if you want Nintendo to offer options in their games that use the Wii-mote and Chuck without motion that is semi-viable.

To fix your DS analog, it would be like having a USB adapter to use your Cube controller on DS games instead of using the touch-screen/mic or the dual screen set up. Because you have to include a new party that isn't standard with the console.

Originally Posted by Angrist

So how is encouraging people to sell their Wii a good strategy for Nintendo? They want to make money; they know there's an audience that would rather use buttons instead of gestures...

Do they?
I mean if I'm Nintendo and I see that NSMBW has sold more than any Mario game in 15 years, I assume people want motion and they want 2D.
If I see TP sold better than Wind Waker, I assume people want motion in their Zelda games.
And it goes on and on down the list.
Motion controls haven't hurt the sales of any of their franchise this generation, aside from Metroid, but that's been on a downward slope since Prime.

It's like that story a while back where Nintendo encouraged Eurocom to 'innovate the controls' in the Golden Eye remake. They ended up with some tacked on, crappy option to strafe by holding the A-button. Something similar worked for Metroid 1 & 2, but guess why it wasn't in MP3. It's a stupid option that nobody will use.
But hey, at least they're letting you choose.

I'm not sure what you are talking about?
And I've played Goldeneye to completion, so explanation?

Now with DKCR, Nintendo probably told Retro "add motion controls." Although they prefered rolling/pounding/blowing with a button, they had to map that to a gesture. And because of that, they had to disable GC/CC support. Yay, Wii is a motion console, whether it works or not!!

I could see the first part, but the 2nd part wasn't gonna happen. Even if it had no motion, I don't think Nintendo would have offered GC/CC support. A case could be made that Metroid: Other M has no motion but doesn't offer GCN/CC support.

And ground pound and blowing are perfectly suited for a control, they aren't anything you need to do in a pinch. The problem really comes from mapping all 3 actions to the same motion.

Long rant, shorter version.
I really don't get the point in not making your default controller, the default set up for your consoles and its game nor do I think you need to compensate for people who want other options. If the game benefits from it and doesn't hurt using it with the core control fine, but don't complain if its not there. Its not mandatory, and really other than the Wii, there is no other console that has ever allowed you to re-use controls.