[manasecret]

Originally Posted by Professor S

Mana, I think citing that article as evidence that socialized healthcare can work is one thing, but you seem to confuse the article with 100% irrefutable proof that it does, and it should end the argument.

No, I don't! I said exactly what my point was and that's all I had to say. I said and meant nothing about how that wins the debate for the Obama healthcare plan, that is only your inference, which is untrue.

Thats a bit silly, especially considering how the article targets successes and only argues the positive, and ignores most of the failures Bond and I have pointed out over and over again, and certainly never explores the free market victories in all of these categories. That article is a contrarian argument, and while considerable and valid, not an honest broker and certainly not a trump card to anything in this debate.

Also, no one here has claimed that socialized healthcare is an absolute failure in every case. I even pointed out how it has succeeded in Israel. Our contention is and always has been that it would fail in the US, and there is more evidence to support that claim than that it would likely succeed (I won't bore everyone by re-posting the arguments/evidence).

And to be clear, I view failure as asking the vast majority (insured) to accept/tolerate a lower quality of care to insure the minority (uninsured), or forcing them to accept care they do not want or need. We need to bring care up for everyone. There is no victory in tearing one side down to achieve medicocrity to the other.