[Seth]

Originally Posted by Professor S

The fact is no one knows what would happen when a 757 collides with a building made to withstand a missile attack, like the Pentagon. In any other building there may have been lateral damage,m but we don't know as we have no real example for comparison. The facts are that debris from the plane was everywhere after the crash, in tiny little pieces, as shown in the photos provided in the link. To jump to the conclusion that is was a conspiracy from the US government is a bit, mad, I'm afraid.

A record that is almost 50 years old? Seriously? By that logic they might start beheading the Bourgeoisie again any day now...

I'd say that 50 years is hardly any time. Seriously, there's nam vets all over the place, alive and many mentally unstable. It's hugely significant especially when you consider the correlation between faked event --> going to war.
And there isn't evidence of debris being 'everywhere'. There's a few photos that show some plane parts but nothing that would resemble 757 jet crashing. I'd like your thoughts on how a a 757 could penetrate that much of the building and pop out section C with the resulting damage.

I wouldn't doubt it, as it sounds crazy enought to me, and coming from a guy who denies the 16th amendment it sounds just about right.
In the end though, 911 conspiracy theories fall apart with any logical questioning of them? Whhen you take the microscope away from the government, and put it on the theories, they are assinine?

I don't like to assume someone is lying. The 16th amendment was ratified in 1913. The Federal Reserve was also created in 1913. Not a founding fathers document at all. In fact the founding fathers and some presidents warned about consolidating the nations money under private bankers.

1) If they were military planes, what happened to the real ones and everyone on board? I suppose they were able to reroute the planes, kill or silence any and all aircraft controllers who helped, create false cell phone logs for passengers on the plane and then kill all the passengers and destroy the planes leaving no evidence and then kill everyone who disassembled the planes, and then all the people who killed everyone killed themselves. Thats the only way word doesn't get out.

I'm not saying they were military planes. heck, I'm not saying I agree with conclusions that are made to 'explain' any discrepancies.
Who's saying those planes were anything but the one's full of peoplel. not I. Cockpit computer control systems are capable of doing many things. Back during Kennedy they were planning on remotely controlling an airliner and having it attacked(Tonkin style) in order to necessitate a war with Cuba. Just because someone has doubts about the 9/11 official story doesn't mean they buy all the crap that gets thrown out there.

2) Osama Bin Laden, with a 20 year history of terrorism against the US crossing all presidential administrations in that time period, becomes an employee of the USA and joins in so that the US can have a good excuse to go into the Mid East and blow the shit out of his people.

What do you mean against the US? The CIA funded Osama in the afghani/soviet union war. They were 'freedom fighters' at that time because of their influence in keeping soviet control at bay.
Does it not matter at all that the Federal US government has had a long standing relationship with the Osama family? His 20 years of 'terrorism' were funded heavily by the american government. That's an undeniable fact, ....Us involvement in the middle east probably changed Osama's mind about his funding buddies. who knows. I don't know how you draw, fighting soviets with US help, as being terrorism against the US.

3) And the US is able to cover everything up, the demolitions, the government planes, plant false evidence on a MASSIVE AND DETAILED SCALE... and this is the same government that can't figure out how to build a fence on the border or provide decent healthcare... Watch the Sout Park episode.

Why haven't they built a fence way earlier? They can't figure out how to build a decent fence on the border? please. The US has the most powerful and technologically advanced military in the world. If they actually wanted to keep immigrants from crossing illegally then all they'd have to do is invest more money and get it done. Illegal immigrants fill the walmart jobs that don't pay enough for any american who enjoys a 'decent' level of affluence. Why should the federal government provide decent health care. At what point in their track record have they shown to give a shit about the working class individuals as far as providing social services? I still don't see how it's a massive scale detailed coverup. Sure, if it's really a conspiracy then yeah, they have to cover things up. But when you have mainstream media on strings it's not so hard. Also, to reiterate, I don't buy into the 'theories' raised of what actually went on. I merely have questions based on the evidence presented.

Wrong, the deity you mention has nothing to do with the Cremation of Care, it was meant to symbolize knowledge. Just look up the Wiki on it. The god you are referring to, Moloch, had the head of a BULL and had nothing to do with Owls at all. It was literally the Golden Calf pictured in the Ten Commandments. I know where you got your information on this, and its a huge lie. Honestly, try and find opposing informatiuon for your views, because its easy to find info that debunks some these crazy theories.

Actually historians aren't even sure of molech(in the hebrew context) actually existed. Molech is used to describe a deity that recieves human sacrifice. The babylonian empire used large owl monuments(supposedly hollow and made of metal) to sacrifice children to. The cremation of care is a combination of many rituals. It has ties with druidic rituals as well. Have you actually watched all of the footage?
"Nineteenth and early twentieth century commentators also characterized Rabbinical traditions about other gods mentioned in the Tanach as simply legends, and regarded them as raising doubt about what was said about Moloch. They suggested that such descriptions of Moloch might be simply taken from accounts of the sacrifice to Cronus and from the tale of the Minotaur; No bull-headed Phoenician god was known. This did not hold back some from identifying Moloch with Milcom, with the Tyrian god Melqart, with Ba‘al Hammon to whom children were purportedly sacrificed, and with any other god called 'Lord' (Ba‘al) or (Bel)"

Order out of chaos was said by GW because it was on the dollar bill and the seal of the United States. It is a symbol of the Revolution, creating the new union out of the colonies.
http://altreligion.about.com/library.../aa111604a.htm
Illuminism was part of a small sect of of german masons in the late 18th century which quickly dissappeared. Any other belief in the illuminati owes more the popular historically inspired fiction than reality.

It isn't a symbol of 'the revolution'. Illuminism didn't quickly disappear either. It found root in early American history. The fact is there was a roundup of 'illuminati' members by the American authorities because documents were found which were considered to be the movement of an undermining of the nations ideals.'treachery'

While I thank you for sharing your thoughts, I'm honestly worried about you, Seth. Your conspiratorial beliefs border on mental illness, IMO, and I don;t intend that as an insult but as a show of concern.

I'm honestly worried that you're worried about me. It's good to know you have the discernment faculties to label someone as having borderline mental illness issues based on such a few lines of thought. actually, it's a bit worrying. And I know you're not the kind to throw insults indiscriminately. So don't worry about how I interpret your intentions.

Theories like your do nothing but create a sense of powerlessness; "no matter what I do sectret powers will keep me/us down". There is no way to dissuade you of these theories, because their nature is secret and insunuation has more basis than fact. Its become a religion. The farther the leap in logic, the more powerful the "truth" as everything is masterfully created by powerful men in dark robes. The simply expained debunking of these theories loses validity simply becasue they are not as complex and "puzzle like" as the theory.

I don't understand what you mean by this. If one looks at the political structure of both our nations, well, that gives off the feeling of being powerless. The choice between cousins in 2004 for presidency gives off the vibe of powerlessness. Especially two skull and bones members. uh oh, more conspiracy talk. Well, I honestly feel that political leaders should be open to full scrutiny. The fact that they belonged to such a secret frat as the skull and bones and will not disclose any information is disconcerting imo. Do I feel powerless ('believing' in a grand conspiracy for one world government)....no. Not at all. Powerlessness is watching my tax dollars being spent on military intervention that is pissing off some mean motherfuckers. Powerlessness is watching our world leaders meet in private meetings with no log or record of what is being discussed. That's the opposite of what a democratic, open society should be.

If you look at any event in history, and say: "How does this show a shadow conspiracy", I guarantee you you'll be able to pull together a specious argument for it. Unfortunately the government is to blame for this paranoia, as Watergate and event slike the Gulf of Tonkin have made people question anything the government tried to do or says, regardless of directly condemning evidence.

It's not about asking yourself, "How does this show a shadow conspiracy?" You look at who gained from historical events and who lost. Instead of gathering every historical tidbit one knows from textbooks, I prefer to do further research and find the consolidation of power. There's historical facts that I find fascinating and base a logical conclusion on the evidence given. And it's not taking 'any' historical fact and finding a conspiracy for it.

I love stories like this in books and film, they are honestly compelling, but they are just stories and I would hope you would eventually get your feet on the ground again. I mean that with all sincerity and empathy.

So I guess you've labeled me a nut. well, opinion is opinion.
What's your major btw?