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Originally Posted by Vampyr
To me that says something. Being a religious statement, I understand it wouldnt help solve anything scientifically, but I am a christain, and I take those words to heart. So is abortion murder? Even if it is still a undeveloped embryo? Yes. It is. Something that was once living is no longer living. It's not alive anymore, so therefore it is dead.
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What do you think about Birth Control then? Abstinence, withdrawl, and condoms. You know the type, they teach that stuff in the Sex Ed (and on the street).
I don't remember being able to retain memory until quite awhile after I was born. Maybe that's the same with conscious thought?
But that's not your point, is it? Your point is that God knew people, what they would be like... and basically their fate before they were born. So, God would have to know that even before the sperm and egg were made... to know each part of the human. Then, do you suppose God would know what would become of the child? Like, if there would be an abortion, stem-cell research; or, in the case of abstinence and birth control... would he know before hand the condom or other form of obstacle that prevents the further development of the DNA, "human-to-be"?
That conflicts with human will though, so maybe that's what you're concerned with. Maybe human will is uncontrollable by God. That'd create a lot of conflict with any form of fate, however, as there are 6 billion people running the world. That's a lot of willpower. But to know people, God would know what kinds of decisions they would make. That, there, would give God some sort of control.
But, back to point. If human willpower is what defines something as murder rather than the path of fate designed by God... perhaps abstinence, then, is a form of murder. It could be in God's plan to create a human, and then he makes the sperm and the egg. Yet, even then, if the couple gets together... they could use a condom, which also stops the creation of a human.
Or... what if you believe birth control is not murder because a sperm and egg alone, though they may be in God's plan, are not a child until they unite. But what line separates an egg and sperm from its individual parts? Both have already gone under growth... they simply undergo even more growth when together. And it's still not solitary growth, it relies on the mother. So, perhaps a human is not it's own until birth? Then it'd be running off it's own steam (Aside from feed, of course).
That's not the only point to still consider, though. What if a human's only truly him/herself when it has conscious thought. If that's the case, it still wouldn't be murder if the child dies early in its life. And... eggs and sperm separate have no more conscious thought nor less potential to grow than a complete embryo.
The final thought? What if God
does have the power to spin fate? If so, then perhaps it'd be God's will when an unborn human is used in stem-cell research, or aborted, or simply not conceived. It'd be God's will that people are cloned, for they too would have DNA and would have a growth period. But, for that to be incorrect, then any form of murder would be defined by human's will to stop lives. And that starts with abstinence, not just abortion.
As bonus connected thoughts...
.If you murder someone, and it's your will against God's, do you kill not just the person, but also the family tree?
.Is a miss-carriage God's abortion? What gives God the right?
.And if it is God's right... If someone is about to die from natural causes, and human will saves that person, is that also defiance against God's will?